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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 22:36:52 GMT
Diolch yn fawr Cookie!!!
Pob lwc!!
We will miss you!
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 22:37:35 GMT
I spoke to Chris after the Panama game at the Vale at about 23:30-00:00, I had the impression that he wanted to stay and build but was in the dark with the whole situation. No one will ever have to take on the Wales National Team Mangers job in such circumstances as Chris did, I genuinely think he wanted to stay and build, there has been no leaving do, good byes or anything, everyone was of the impression Chris was still going to be our manager post Christmas. I think he has taken a job whilst it is vacant as opposed to continue to negotiate and have no work, what I find amazing is the speed in which John Toshack was given contracts in comparison to Chris considering the different heights they took Wales to.....I think Chris could have picked a better club if he had waited, I think this could have been handled better by FAW, if he was going he desereved the Panama match to be his last game and an opportunity for fans to thank him. Interesting insight. There was a few posts regarding a caller on BBC Wales 'Call Rob' (Phillips) who was effectively saying that he thought that the FAW would get rid of Coleman because he had become bigger than the FAW. Can't help thinking that there is some truth in that. The difference between Toshack and Coleman is that Toshack was prepared to work within the perimeters that were set by the FAW. It seems that in Coleman making Rylands and Mitchell part of the deal or no deal, they just decided it was a no deal from them. Pure speculation, all the noises coming out of the FAW was that they desperately wanted him to stay. There's no evidence to point to the contrary so I think this is pretty unfair actually. |
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Post by cadno on Nov 17, 2017 22:38:59 GMT
What do people think about Carl Robinson?
He has more managerial experience than Henry, Bellamy or Giggs.
He's a proud Welshman too.
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Post by rushlegend on Nov 17, 2017 22:42:09 GMT
No, that's completely illogical! Iceland and NI are the best examples of over-achieving with a limited squad / tiny nation. Particularly Iceland, I've never heard of anything like it. It would be ridiculous to evaluate Coleman's performance by directly comparing him with the two best examples out there!
On the whole, he's done extremely well with us and history will judge him far more kindly than some of you. To imply that anyone could have achieved what he did with that squad in the Euros as if it was nothing is ridiculous. He massively over-achieved with what he had at his disposal.
Sorry iot but i completely disagree - we were minutes from drawing in Andorra to begin with (fortunately ref awared a twice taken free-kick to win opening qualifier - we were lucky that night and got momentum from it "that's all" - also spine of the side played nearly all 10 games in qualifying for Euro 2016 (Hennessey, Ash, Allen, Ramsey, Bale) - were we lucky in the finals? Yep!! i think so - fortunate to beat Slovakia, poor against England, win against the worse Russian team that's ever been, N Ireland could have gone either way (even with Bale!!!) - these qualifiers were we struggled have proved that tactics is not one of his strongest points!!! - I'm happy NOT delighted he has gone cause we need fresh management with better ideas and tactics!!
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Post by Griff105 on Nov 17, 2017 22:42:38 GMT
Dear Chris
Ref- Professional and Reputational suicide
What's the going rate nowadays?
Champions league football. Ha fucking ha.
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 17, 2017 22:43:11 GMT
If he left us for Everton/West Ham/High end of Championship then it would have been easier to swallow I guess
But fucking Sunderland!?!?!?
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Post by rushlegend on Nov 17, 2017 22:46:12 GMT
Tosh built the foundations from rubble when we were a standing joke. Totally agree Baresi!!! Sorry GarySpeedLoyal you do talk crap and some bullshit thrown in  |
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 22:47:06 GMT
What I mean by #SloppySeconds is we would have been Coleman’s second choice. If a job didn’t come along he would have stayed with Wales. I’m not sure I was ever comfortable with that. He was always honest about wanting to go back to club football eventually, but he was always going to honour his contract commitments imo. You said it's time to move on, if so - to who? It's easy saying you think we need a change, but I can't see any decent alternatives! So in that context, I would argue it was definitely not beneficial to 'move on'. The players loved him so I'm just really hoping this doesn't knock the stuffing out of them and dissuade the likes of Brooks and Ampadu from committing to us by way of appearing in a competitive game (need I remind you there's a ten month wait?!). I think the main reason the likes of Ampadu and Brooks have swayed for us so far, despite being involved in England youth squads too, is because they've enjoyed themselves with us far more. If the experience of joining up with Welsh squads becomes less enjoyable, that could make the difference! Particularly if they continue their development at club level and the likes of England and Ghana start sniffing around! |
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 22:48:15 GMT
What do people think about Carl Robinson? He has more managerial experience than Henry, Bellamy or Giggs. He's a proud Welshman too. Will it inspire the players though and encourage the likes of Ampadu and Brooks to stay with us? |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 17, 2017 22:48:19 GMT
No, that's completely illogical! Iceland and NI are the best examples of over-achieving with a limited squad / tiny nation. Particularly Iceland, I've never heard of anything like it. It would be ridiculous to evaluate Coleman's performance by directly comparing him with the two best examples out there! On the whole, he's done extremely well with us and history will judge him far more kindly than some of you. To imply that anyone could have achieved what he did with that squad in the Euros as if it was nothing is ridiculous. He massively over-achieved with what he had at his disposal. Sorry iot but i completely disagree - we were minutes from drawing in Andorra to begin with (fortunately ref awared a twice taken free-kick to win opening qualifier - we were lucky that night and got momentum from it "that's all" - also spine of the side played nearly all 10 games in qualifying for Euro 2016 (Hennessey, Ash, Allen, Ramsey, Bale) - were we lucky in the finals? Yep!! i think so - fortunate to beat Slovakia, poor against England, win against the worse Russian team that's ever been, N Ireland could have gone either way (even with Bale!!!) - these qualifiers were we struggled have proved that tactics is not one of his strongest points!!! - I'm happy NOT delighted he has gone cause we need fresh management with better ideas and tactics!! it all to do with interpretation an example people say that England had a great world cup in 90 but they was shit against Cameroon and Belgium and could have easily been knocked out they was dire until they played Germany in the semi. Was Wales lucky to beat Belgium |
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 22:54:43 GMT
No, that's completely illogical! Iceland and NI are the best examples of over-achieving with a limited squad / tiny nation. Particularly Iceland, I've never heard of anything like it. It would be ridiculous to evaluate Coleman's performance by directly comparing him with the two best examples out there! On the whole, he's done extremely well with us and history will judge him far more kindly than some of you. To imply that anyone could have achieved what he did with that squad in the Euros as if it was nothing is ridiculous. He massively over-achieved with what he had at his disposal. Sorry iot but i completely disagree - we were minutes from drawing in Andorra to begin with (fortunately ref awared a twice taken free-kick to win opening qualifier - we were lucky that night and got momentum from it "that's all" - also spine of the side played nearly all 10 games in qualifying for Euro 2016 (Hennessey, Ash, Allen, Ramsey, Bale) - were we lucky in the finals? Yep!! i think so - fortunate to beat Slovakia, poor against England, win against the worse Russian team that's ever been, N Ireland could have gone either way (even with Bale!!!) - these qualifiers were we struggled have proved that tactics is not one of his strongest points!!! - I'm happy NOT delighted he has gone cause we need fresh management with better ideas and tactics!! No team has ever achieved anything without an element of luck. We've had better squads in the past but had never qualified properly. I find the extent to which you're downplaying Coleman's achievements here ridiculous. I predict reality will bite you hard in the coming years when you realise our squad isn't as strong as you seem to think it is, and we won't start blowing teams away by two or three goals each game with a tactical genius (Giggs, Pullis, Saunders???) at the helm. Out of interest, who do you want to take over? |
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Post by cadno on Nov 17, 2017 22:57:43 GMT
What do people think about Carl Robinson? He has more managerial experience than Henry, Bellamy or Giggs. He's a proud Welshman too. Will it inspire the players though and encourage the likes of Ampadu and Brooks to stay with us? I know what you're saying, but I have a feeling that Robinson is a great man-manager. Still, it might be too early for him. He'd be my no.1 choice at the moment, Lagerback maybe, but the man should be Welsh imo. |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 17, 2017 22:59:23 GMT
No, that's completely illogical! Iceland and NI are the best examples of over-achieving with a limited squad / tiny nation. Particularly Iceland, I've never heard of anything like it. It would be ridiculous to evaluate Coleman's performance by directly comparing him with the two best examples out there! On the whole, he's done extremely well with us and history will judge him far more kindly than some of you. To imply that anyone could have achieved what he did with that squad in the Euros as if it was nothing is ridiculous. He massively over-achieved with what he had at his disposal. Sorry iot but i completely disagree - we were minutes from drawing in Andorra to begin with (fortunately ref awared a twice taken free-kick to win opening qualifier - we were lucky that night and got momentum from it "that's all" - also spine of the side played nearly all 10 games in qualifying for Euro 2016 (Hennessey, Ash, Allen, Ramsey, Bale) - were we lucky in the finals? Yep!! i think so - fortunate to beat Slovakia, poor against England, win against the worse Russian team that's ever been, N Ireland could have gone either way (even with Bale!!!) - these qualifiers were we struggled have proved that tactics is not one of his strongest points!!! - I'm happy NOT delighted he has gone cause we need fresh management with better ideas and tactics!! No team has ever achieved anything without an element of luck. We've had better squads in the past but had never qualified properly. I find the extent to which you're downplaying Coleman's achievements here ridiculous. I predict reality will bite you hard in the coming years when you realise our squad isn't as strong as you seem to think it is, and we won't start blowing teams away by two or three goals each game with a tactical genius (Giggs, Pullis, Saunders???) at the helm. Out of interest, who do you want to take over? better squads I don't remember a better defensive unit than the one in the euros and and that qualifying |
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 22:59:51 GMT
Will it inspire the players though and encourage the likes of Ampadu and Brooks to stay with us? I know what you're saying, but I have a feeling that Robinson is a great man-manager. Still, it might be too early for him. He'd be my no.1 choice at the moment, Lagerback maybe, but the man should be Welsh imo. Yes, he's probably my first choice too and that says it all! Some people on here are deluded. |
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 23:02:25 GMT
No team has ever achieved anything without an element of luck. We've had better squads in the past but had never qualified properly. I find the extent to which you're downplaying Coleman's achievements here ridiculous. I predict reality will bite you hard in the coming years when you realise our squad isn't as strong as you seem to think it is, and we won't start blowing teams away by two or three goals each game with a tactical genius (Giggs, Pullis, Saunders???) at the helm. Out of interest, who do you want to take over? better squads I don't remember a better defensive unit than the one in the euros and and that qualifying You may be right, but I think many would argue that the squad with Rush, Hughes, Saunders, Giggs, Southall was stronger. |
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Post by alarch on Nov 17, 2017 23:04:25 GMT
What is the basis for people's enthusiasm for Carl Robinson? Does anybody have any insight into what he would bring to the table? What sort of playing style does he favour? These are basic and fundamental questions. It seems to me that people's enthusiasm for him is based on a) he's a Welsh international and b) he's had some management success in a low-profile league.
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Post by cadno on Nov 17, 2017 23:06:29 GMT
I know what you're saying, but I have a feeling that Robinson is a great man-manager. Still, it might be too early for him. He'd be my no.1 choice at the moment, Lagerback maybe, but the man should be Welsh imo. Yes, he's probably my first choice too and that says it all! Some people on here are deluded. I'm really surprised how many people want Henry. He's a big name but he would be a big risk too. We have a genuine opportunity to do well in Euro 2020 if we get things right. |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 17, 2017 23:08:11 GMT
better squads I don't remember a better defensive unit than the one in the euros and and that qualifying You may be right, but I think many would argue that the squad with Rush, Hughes, Saunders, Giggs, Southall was stronger. mmmmmmmm brilliant offensive but defensive problems over the years even when southhall and Radcliffe was around , good defence unit paramount |
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Post by cadno on Nov 17, 2017 23:25:01 GMT
What is the basis for people's enthusiasm for Carl Robinson? Does anybody have any insight into what he would bring to the table? What sort of playing style does he favour? These are basic and fundamental questions. It seems to me that people's enthusiasm for him is based on a) he's a Welsh international and b) he's had some management success in a low-profile league. Those are fair questions. This is an interesting article, he understands the Welsh way. www.whitecapsfc.com/post/2016/06/15/robinson-helped-guide-golden-generation-welsh-soccer I listen to a lot of his interviews, and he's very well spoken. I'm really not sure what his preferred style of football is, I think he's happy for VW to keep a good shape and contain rather than dominate a game with possession, but that might change depending on the players he'll have to work with? He is pragmatic. I'll try and do more research. He's a much better option than Henry, Bellamy or Giggs for me. |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 17, 2017 23:30:12 GMT
think he might be good with the youngsters unlike maybe bellamy or pulis
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Post by alarch on Nov 17, 2017 23:30:13 GMT
I want an idealist as a manager, in the mould of Gary Speed, not a pragmatist. Coleman could justify his more pragmatic approach on the basis that we had some players who were comfortable with a possession-based game and some who were not. The squad going into the next Euro campaign should be brimming with quality players, assured in possession. There is no reason at all not to appoint a manager that matches our playing resources. Such a choice of manager would be aspirational in the past - now it is entirely realistic.
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 17, 2017 23:36:54 GMT
Yes, he's probably my first choice too and that says it all! Some people on here are deluded. I'm really surprised how many people want Henry. He's a big name but he would be a big risk too. We have a genuine opportunity to do well in Euro 2020 if we get things right. worst still we could always appoint a dutch coach lol |
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 17, 2017 23:42:37 GMT
The fact that Dragon Soccer have tweeted that the new manager is imminent suggests to me that there is a plan in place which is encouraging
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 23:43:25 GMT
What is the basis for people's enthusiasm for Carl Robinson? Does anybody have any insight into what he would bring to the table? What sort of playing style does he favour? These are basic and fundamental questions. It seems to me that people's enthusiasm for him is based on a) he's a Welsh international and b) he's had some management success in a low-profile league. "What is the basis for people's enthusiasm for Carl Robinson?" Best of a bad bunch? Let's be honest, Coleman was on something like £400k and that's pittance in footballing terms - to put it in context, even Strachan was on twice as much. So, that will inevitably narrow our possibilities to: a) a Welsh Manager who sees it as more than a salary (possibly Pullis, but not sure if he would be prepared to earn only a third of what he currently gets at WBA) b) a rookie international manager who sees it as a stepping stone a la Henry. None of them are good options for me. |
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Post by iot on Nov 17, 2017 23:45:55 GMT
The fact that Dragon Soccer have tweeted that the new manager is imminent suggests to me that there is a plan in place which is encouraging Dragon Soccer also posted that stand-by list so I wouldn't read too much into it. Bryn Law immediately disputed the claim. |
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Post by majorraglan on Nov 17, 2017 23:46:37 GMT
I would just like to say a big thanks to CC, his team of assistants and players for Euro 2016.
I have waited all my life to see us compete at the finals of a major competition and to be at that game in Toulouse with my son was a privilege and a dream come true. Whoever comes next will have big boots to fill, I hope the FAW push the boat out and bring in a high quality appointment who will nurture, develop the next generation and build upon what we have achieved. We have some fantastic young players coming through (some of whom could still play under another flag) and it’s important that we keep hold of these players by appointing a manager who they will admire and be prepared to play for.
The king is dead, long live the king - unless he is a duffer!!
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Post by alarch on Nov 17, 2017 23:46:59 GMT
The more I read about Potter the more I think we should seriously think about appointing him. This is a bloke who took a basket case club in Östersund from the fourth tier of Swedish football to the top flight, and subsequently winners of the Swedish cup. This gave them a ticket to the Europa League, where they qualified for the group stages by beating Galatasaray (the top seeds) 3-1 over two legs. They currently top a group containing Athletic Bilbao, Hertha Berlin and Ukrainian team Zorya. There are lots of articles that make for impressive reading, take this one: www.espn.co.uk/football/uefa-europa-league/0/blog/post/3203187/ostersunds-fk-tiny-swedish-team-believe-they-can-dominate-european-footballPotter is clearly a very emotionally intelligent guy - and is perhaps one of few who could maintain the excellent work that Coleman has done on the man-management front. I'd like to know more about his footballing philosophy, but the fact that he was recommended by Graeme Jones (Martinez' assistant at Swansea, Wigan, Everton and now Belgium) suggests he has the right ideas. Interesting as a Swansea supporter to read that Swansea's playing style in playing pre-season friendlies against Östersund, was influential in the decision to appoint of Potter. |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 17, 2017 23:50:14 GMT
it would be a positive move
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Post by hookd on Nov 17, 2017 23:52:51 GMT
Anyway. Whatever I think of his merits as a coach - Coleman was a true patriot. At least he did not clear off in the middle of the campaign and represented Wales very well. I am grateful for that and in playing his part in progressing the team. Just hope we get the replacement right!
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Post by alarch on Nov 17, 2017 23:57:56 GMT
I'm even more encouraged by a quote in this article: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/the-miracle-of-ostersund/"Then we started to get players that were maybe either released or not considered good enough for the conventional sort of way. Pick those guys up, and then to do that you have to play to their strengths So we got the ones that were maybe too small or not strong enough to play typical, conventional football if you like. That helped us evolve towards more possession, more controlling game." And: "Graham Potter worked out that the main clubs were deploying speed and strength, because they paid for speed and strength. He couldn’t afford either so he changed tactics, with a flexible 3-5-2 formation focusing on ball possession." |
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