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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 18, 2017 0:07:56 GMT
I'm even more encouraged by a quote in this article: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/the-miracle-of-ostersund/"Then we started to get players that were maybe either released or not considered good enough for the conventional sort of way. Pick those guys up, and then to do that you have to play to their strengths So we got the ones that were maybe too small or not strong enough to play typical, conventional football if you like. That helped us evolve towards more possession, more controlling game." And: "Graham Potter worked out that the main clubs were deploying speed and strength, because they paid for speed and strength. He couldn’t afford either so he changed tactics, with a flexible 3-5-2 formation focusing on ball possession." yep but international footy unlike club footie to an extent you limited to what you can select ,then again the knack of been a good international manager maybe getting the best out of the player u have |
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Post by alarch on Nov 18, 2017 0:13:28 GMT
Well on that basis you couldn't possibly get a better manager than Graham Potter - given what he's achieved with waifs and strays. Here's another quote from an article: "On arrival, Potter boldly pledged to formulate a new, unique identity for the club, setting a blueprint inspired by his early coaching experience in England. Potter’s Östersunds FK would play a fluid passing game, with players empowered to take responsibility for their own decisions on the field. In short, coaching would not seek to create robots, rather, thoughtful, assertive individuals. And this has been achieved, with an expansive, attacking style of play based around a flexible 4-3-3 template that often adapts to 3-5-2, and the utilisation of overlapping wingbacks and a sweeper. Potter’s philosophy was perhaps a reaction to his own experience as a professional footballer in England, an experience he has half-jokingly recalled as a “displeasure”. Having experienced at first hand the deficiencies of traditional English coaching, where a player’s individual perspective is often limited to the functional requirements of a single position, Potter has sought to develop his players’ individual skillsets, whilst ensuring that the key ingredient to playing football is always maintained- enjoyment. Looking back at his short time as a player at Stoke, Potter frequently cut a frustrated figure, patently unappreciated by a home support who frequently saw any thoughtful dalliance on the ball as an unnecessary embellishment. Get the ball forward and be quick about it. Expression and enjoyment? Come on, get serious. It was an environment which Potter struggled to enjoy and was no doubt keen to escape when Souness came calling the following summer." inbedwithmaradona.com/journal/2013/6/18/osterunds-fk-and-the-upward-trajectory-of-graham-potter |
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Post by alarch on Nov 18, 2017 0:16:26 GMT
"Despite being relatively unknown and unremembered in his own homeland, Potter represents a new breed of coaching which English football must now surely begin to look at- coaches who have spent the requisite time learning their trade, experimenting with strategies and tactics, acquiring fresh, new ideas and abandoning the tried, tested and known. Coaches, who, by dint of sheer coal-face experience, have forged unique, imaginative football identities that can be carried into the future."
I like this...
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 18, 2017 0:24:40 GMT
is nt abit like comparing managing Crewe with Man U , I mean the guys obviously talented but would he be a success dealing with all them egos, like the difference between club and international teams a different ball game
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Post by alarch on Nov 18, 2017 0:31:09 GMT
Which egos? This is a bloke who's played professional football and is clearly very strong on man-management. Why shouldn't he succeed with Wales?
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Post by joseywales37 on Nov 18, 2017 0:43:02 GMT
Obviously any incoming manager needs time to get his stamp on things, get used to players etc, maybe all this would have been better dealt with straight after Ireland game to give new man them friendlies, not sure. But one real worrying thing is backroom staff and youngsters still eligible for them across the bridge, or do you feel that nothing to worry about ?, and is it now upto senior players to keep a calm head and keep them new boys focused ?
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Post by garyspeedloyal on Nov 18, 2017 0:46:57 GMT
No bullshit thrown in. I bet it was with very heavy heart that Chris let this job go. Also there is not a lot to do between now and next September. That may have been a bearing.
I don’t think there has been a better time to take the job on.
I look forward to seeing the calibration of candidate.
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 18, 2017 0:47:14 GMT
Which egos? This is a bloke who's played professional football and is clearly very strong on man-management. Why shouldn't he succeed with Wales? sorry I did nt explain my point I mean just cos he successful at an obscure club it dosent mean he succeed at a power house , I was trying to compare that scenario with club football and international.But I'm sure the guys an intelligent man and there worst candidates |
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Post by saints19 on Nov 18, 2017 0:48:21 GMT
And here we are. A mere four days later, Coleman's gone and Scotland look like they will get O'Neill, who would IMO make an excellent replacement for Coleman.
I would be aking enquiries now, there may still be time.
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Post by pendragon on Nov 18, 2017 1:15:16 GMT
My initial feeling is that it would be too early for the youngsters to start fretting about where their allegiances lie. I have no doubt that Coleman was a tremendous influence over them and they might be wary of change but I wouldn't have thought that this news in itself would be enough to send them packing
If anything, the Ireland game could have been more influential in convincing them to jump ship.
As it was, they seemed chuffed to bits to be starting in two international friendlies.
My main concern going forward is whether we attract the right man for the job. We need someone relatively charismatic who can hold sway with these youngsters, and get the best out of them. I am quite concerned if potential candidates who allegedly scream at their youth squads when underperforming are considered - if reports are to be believed. No thank you.
If a totally inappropriate appointment is made, we could see those youngsters scurrying for the border.
Whatever anyone says of the likes of Henry or Giggs, they are essentially brands and are likely to be very influential. Where the youngsters are concerned, I think such an appointment has potential.
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Post by oscardelta on Nov 18, 2017 1:36:58 GMT
Which egos? This is a bloke who's played professional football and is clearly very strong on man-management. Why shouldn't he succeed with Wales? sorry I did nt explain my point I mean just cos he successful at an obscure club it dosent mean he succeed at a power house , I was trying to compare that scenario with club football and international.But I'm sure the guys an intelligent man and there worst candidates I agree. At a club you get a chance to know a player, mould and develop them as part of a team, it is harder at international level because you get players 3-4 days before an international, you need to get them gelling quickly as part of a team and all following the same tactics. An international manager will need 3-4 wins quickly if they had no record of success as a Manager of a big club or as an International. Otherwise a real danger that senior players will not take them seriously. There isn't any easy / obvious choices. However the style Potter is producing is interesting in response to speedy attackers, didn't believe it but apparently Jack Charlton saw Northampton Towns way of pressing high up on defenders on kick outs as a different approach. He took that and tailored that plus ideas he already had in developing a squad in ROI in 1980's. You may not have to take the man himself but you can always look at his ideas, way he plays and sets up a team and start to tailor it for how you want to be. Biggest clubs are not the ones with biggest ideas as they can buy, its the smaller clubs who need to survive who more likely to be innovative. |
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Post by bale-droed on Nov 18, 2017 1:39:14 GMT
My initial feeling is that it would be too early for the youngsters to start fretting about where their allegiances lie. I have no doubt that Coleman was a tremendous influence over them and they might be wary of change but I wouldn't have thought that this news in itself would be enough to send them packing If anything, the Ireland game could have been more influential in convincing them to jump ship. As it was, they seemed chuffed to bits to be starting in two international friendlies. My main concern going forward is whether we attract the right man for the job. We need someone relatively charismatic who can hold sway with these youngsters, and get the best out of them. I am quite concerned if potential candidates who allegedly scream at their youth squads when underperforming are considered - if reports are to be believed. No thank you. If a totally inappropriate appointment is made, we could see those youngsters scurrying for the border. Whatever anyone says of the likes of Henry or Giggs, they are essentially brands and are likely to be very influential. Where the youngsters are concerned, I think such an appointment has potential. Hope it's Henry over giggs or bellamy. As a player he made two finals and won it once. He's also win the euros and experienced first round K. O so experienced in that environment |
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Post by joseywales37 on Nov 18, 2017 1:58:24 GMT
My initial feeling is that it would be too early for the youngsters to start fretting about where their allegiances lie. I have no doubt that Coleman was a tremendous influence over them and they might be wary of change but I wouldn't have thought that this news in itself would be enough to send them packing If anything, the Ireland game could have been more influential in convincing them to jump ship. As it was, they seemed chuffed to bits to be starting in two international friendlies. My main concern going forward is whether we attract the right man for the job. We need someone relatively charismatic who can hold sway with these youngsters, and get the best out of them. I am quite concerned if potential candidates who allegedly scream at their youth squads when underperforming are considered - if reports are to be believed. No thank you. If a totally inappropriate appointment is made, we could see those youngsters scurrying for the border. Whatever anyone says of the likes of Henry or Giggs, they are essentially brands and are likely to be very influential. Where the youngsters are concerned, I think such an appointment has potential. That point about inappropriate appointment, couldn't have put it better. Fans need to remember it very important pick the right person for Football knowledge reasons and man management skills, and in my opinion where we are now, that will only come from people who have been successful in the game. |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Nov 18, 2017 2:51:00 GMT
yes true but I don't want to use England as an example, but was nt Gramham Taylor seen as successful at a small and unfashionable, club nearly won the old first division used the same style at international totally flopped .Taylor had big men upfront and often used long ball tactics
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Nov 18, 2017 6:06:03 GMT
Why are we doubting the youngster allegences???
Has there been any proof that the might turn they back on us now after being in the set up?
Agree we need right manager to help them on and to bring in more and the names giggs/ Henry can do this not pulis/alladyce
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Post by bale-droed on Nov 18, 2017 6:33:42 GMT
Coleman was manager for 5 years. It’s a good time for a change as long as the right appointment is made within a coherent strategy. Sadly we are Wales. That's why Giggs and Bellamy are being touted |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 7:44:41 GMT
And here we are. A mere four days later, Coleman's gone and Scotland look like they will get O'Neill, who would IMO make an excellent replacement for Coleman. I would be aking enquiries now, there may still be time. You’ve got to be kidding right? |
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Post by gwernybwch on Nov 18, 2017 8:07:38 GMT
Interesting insight. There was a few posts regarding a caller on BBC Wales 'Call Rob' (Phillips) who was effectively saying that he thought that the FAW would get rid of Coleman because he had become bigger than the FAW. Can't help thinking that there is some truth in that. The difference between Toshack and Coleman is that Toshack was prepared to work within the perimeters that were set by the FAW. It seems that in Coleman making Rylands and Mitchell part of the deal or no deal, they just decided it was a no deal from them. Pure speculation, all the noises coming out of the FAW was that they desperately wanted him to stay. There's no evidence to point to the contrary so I think this is pretty unfair actually. Of course it is based on speculation, until we hear from either side, we won't know for certain what happened. All we can rely on at the moment is Paul "messenger for the FAW" Abbandonato. |
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Post by vandenhauwe on Nov 18, 2017 8:11:45 GMT
Was obvious coleman was off even before the Panama game he knew full well faw board/committee would never sanction what he wanted!!
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Post by iantov on Nov 18, 2017 8:15:01 GMT
I guess the 'Coleman Out' brigade are ecstatic, and the "I'm not fussed either way" and the "I can see pros and cons" lot are perfectly happy? For all those that made such calls, I'm dying to know where you think we should go from here? Who is going to be the manager you were all saying would/might take us to the next level? I have to say, with how ready many were to slate him after the Ireland game and how shit our attendance was against Panama, I truly despair at the Welsh fanbase right now. From having so much pride in the fans after France and thinking we'd actually turned a corner, to seeing so many turn on him and the team just over a year later and going back to pre-Euros attendance level is so disappointing. We're just as shit and fickle as any other 'supporters'.It It's not just Welsh football fans iot, it's us Welsh full stop. We can be very easily summed up as follows - 'rain, rain, rain / it's too hot today' - we're just never happy unless we have something to moan about. CC hasn't gone because of a minority of small minded supporters fortunately but I am now worried about where we go from here. Gutted and also concerned for the short and long term future of Welsh Football. |
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Post by iantov on Nov 18, 2017 8:17:22 GMT
My wife doesn't know jack shit about football but when I told her that CC had resigned, she asked where he was going to;
Me; 'Sunderland'
Wife; 'Seriously?!'
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Post by fireboy0610 on Nov 18, 2017 8:31:47 GMT
My wife doesn't know jack shit about football but when I told her that CC had resigned, she asked where he was going to; Me; 'Sunderland' Wife; 'Seriously?!' My wife who knows a tad said exactly the same |
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Post by cymroircarn on Nov 18, 2017 8:48:31 GMT
Mine the same.
It appears that money talks. Says a lot about the game we love when the FAW can’t compete financially with a team at the bottom of the Championship.
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Post by gwernybwch on Nov 18, 2017 9:06:27 GMT
My initial feeling is that it would be too early for the youngsters to start fretting about where their allegiances lie. I have no doubt that Coleman was a tremendous influence over them and they might be wary of change but I wouldn't have thought that this news in itself would be enough to send them packing If anything, the Ireland game could have been more influential in convincing them to jump ship. As it was, they seemed chuffed to bits to be starting in two international friendlies. My main concern going forward is whether we attract the right man for the job. We need someone relatively charismatic who can hold sway with these youngsters, and get the best out of them. I am quite concerned if potential candidates who allegedly scream at their youth squads when underperforming are considered - if reports are to be believed. No thank you. If a totally inappropriate appointment is made, we could see those youngsters scurrying for the border. Whatever anyone says of the likes of Henry or Giggs, they are essentially brands and are likely to be very influential. Where the youngsters are concerned, I think such an appointment has potential. That point about inappropriate appointment, couldn't have put it better. Fans need to remember it very important pick the right person for Football knowledge reasons and man management skills, and in my opinion where we are now, that will only come from people who have been successful in the game.Yes it is important to have football knowledge and man management skills. That means that Ryan Giggs is out of the running then! Define successful in the game. I don't think that anyone would say that Osian Roberts was a successful footballer, but it is obvious that he has huge football knowledge. Ferguson was not a top rated player. If you look at the stats there is very little correlation between being a superb player and becoming an excellent manager. |
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Nov 18, 2017 9:07:11 GMT
Was obvious coleman was off even before the Panama game he knew full well faw board/committee would never sanction what he wanted!! What did he want? |
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Nov 18, 2017 9:09:13 GMT
My ex said it's only football.... that's why she is my ex 😉
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 18, 2017 9:29:23 GMT
He doesn't have any connection to Wales. I read he lives in Scotland and played there, could possibly have a Scottish wife?
I'm not a big believer in having foreign international managers unless it's as part of a transition and he's putting things in place long term. Besides managing the team I can't see what O'Neill would add to the set up.
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Post by alarch on Nov 18, 2017 9:34:34 GMT
And here we are. A mere four days later, Coleman's gone and Scotland look like they will get O'Neill, who would IMO make an excellent replacement for Coleman. I would be aking enquiries now, there may still be time. Great manager for Northern Ireland for sure - but what makes you think that he would be able to manage a squad of much higher quality and play an appropriate brand of football? He has no track record of playing a progressive brand of football. With him, Allardyce or Pulis we would get pragmatic football. A bit like only taking a Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop. |
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Post by vandenhauwe on Nov 18, 2017 9:43:19 GMT
New trainnig facilities at the vale full time contracts for some of the back room staff Tony roberts etc faw board/committee would never sanction that because of cash.
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Post by alarch on Nov 18, 2017 9:49:42 GMT
Which egos? This is a bloke who's played professional football and is clearly very strong on man-management. Why shouldn't he succeed with Wales? sorry I did nt explain my point I mean just cos he successful at an obscure club it dosent mean he succeed at a power house , I was trying to compare that scenario with club football and international.But I'm sure the guys an intelligent man and there worst candidates That's a reasonable point, and that would be a risk with appointing someone as low-profile as Potter. But, given his evident man-management strengths and apparent tactical acumen, these qualities should be enough to impress the players. If he's the real deal he will quickly earn the respect of the players. Far better than living off your past reputation as a player - which is real danger with the likes of Giggs or Henry. I'd forgotten that Potter was a serious candidate for the Swansea job when Monk got the sack. If he was worthy of consideration for a Premier League job a couple of years ago how much stronger will his credentials be now? Especially for the much less demanding national manager role? We should certainly be looking into scoping his credentials - there should be plenty of insight into his suitability from those working behind the scenes at Swansea and in Martinez - who did his coaching badges with the FAW. |
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