Chris Coleman

[iot]

Whatever you think of Ireland's style of play, they have certainly over achieved with the players they have and bringing in O'Neill and Roy Keane was an exciting dream team which gave them a lift. Perhaps we should go down a similar route, get an iconic figure such as Giggs to provide that lift (i.e. in the same manner as Keane) and a more low-key figure alongside him who actually knows his stuff e.g. Carl Robinson.

[rushy]

These players need MANAGING more than coaching, I havent read any suggestions that inspire me never mind the players, really concerning situation right now, its a huge decision that they must get right.

[rushlegend]

No team has ever achieved anything without an element of luck. We've had better squads in the past but had never qualified properly. I find the extent to which you're downplaying Coleman's achievements here ridiculous.

I predict reality will bite you hard in the coming years when you realise our squad isn't as strong as you seem to think it is, and we won't start blowing teams away by two or three goals each game with a tactical genius (Giggs, Pullis, Saunders???) at the helm. Out of interest, who do you want to take over?


Glenn Hoddle - as posted in another thread - best international manager in last 25 years IMO - got his tactics spot on with England in 1998 very unlucky losing on penalty shoot-out v. Argentina, reckon he would have got England to the final otherwise.

[rushlegend]

Whatever you think of Ireland's style of play, they have certainly over achieved


LOL!!!!!! - That comment has cheered me up LOL!!!!

[CrackityJones]

Having slept on it the news of Coleman taking the Sunderland job over renewing his contract with Wales doesn’t get better. I can’t see any of the names linked to the job improving on the togetherness and sense of pride the players have when they put on the red shirt under his stewardship.

I hope I’m wrong and echo what has been said above, the FAW have to get it right this time. With our golden generation at peak age supported by a group of talented youngsters, we’re ready to push on to the next level. Sadly, I thought Coleman would be the man to do it.

[dai]

Not going to lie, been feeling a bit emotional at times since hearing the news.

It's been special, special times to be a Welsh football fan. We've ridden on a crest of emotion and ecstacy that has not been felt for a long time.

The connection between the fans, players and Coleman has been incredible. I'm not sure what manager can now convey that passion for the shirt, from the players down to the fans. He has gone up and down the country, capturing the spirit and imagination of every Welsh person he met.

Fuck sakes, he's going to be hard to replace. Didn't completely realise that before his resignation.

[zenith]

Bale has spoken

[joseywales37]

Nov 18, 2017 9:06:27 GMT gwernybwch said:

Nov 18, 2017 1:58:24 GMT joseywales37 said:

That point about inappropriate appointment, couldn't have put it better. Fans need to remember it very important pick the right person for Football knowledge reasons and man management skills, and in my opinion where we are now, that will only come from people who have been successful in the game.

Yes it is important to have football knowledge and man management skills. That means that Ryan Giggs is out of the running then!

Define successful in the game. I don't think that anyone would say that Osian Roberts was a successful footballer, but it is obvious that he has huge football knowledge. Ferguson was not a top rated player. If you look at the stats there is very little correlation between being a superb player and becoming an excellent manager.

You say that though, but chances are that top players will certainly have better chance, ie that's why Henry with probs less experience alongside top Managers as Giggs is being touted, that's why Zidane, Deschamps, Hughes, Bruce, Guardiola, Keane, Strachen, Martinez, Dalglish, Blanc, Bellamy offered Cardiff/touted for Wales to name a few, even Gerrard offered Liverpool job. What other reason would have got or been offered their jobs other than the fact that they were great players in their times would they have been offered the chance ?. Truth is the whole Giggs stuff started before the stuff with his brother, and it is just plain and simply down to he didn't play on some friendlies years ago. And ok Fergie wasn't great player but wasn't bad either, but the fact remains he was offered top jobs in Scotland soon after retirement and with little experience. 

[joseywales37]

Nov 18, 2017 6:06:03 GMT cymruramdcfc said:

Why are we doubting the youngster allegences???
Has there been any proof that the might turn they back on us now after being in the set up?
Agree we need right manager to help them on and to bring in more and the names giggs/ Henry can do this not pulis/alladyce

Its just every time you read a news story about them, always mentions they are still eligible as it was only a friendly blah blah blah , still a little nervy because sometimes loyalty in football goes out the window sometimes lol. I'm probably over thinking it , was just going on the thought that them over bridge going to be calling players up because they in world cup and we don't have competitive fixture for a while and it occurred to me that there was a good chance that Ampadu playing because of his dad and Cookie Swansea teammates and Brooks already played for them in Toulon. But then I think Os says they defo Welsh, so that's good enough for me lol 

[Deleted]

I’m really down about it too. I got told off in the pub for swearing excessively last night (it’s an old fashioned place) and had both an acquaintance in the cafe this morning and my barber ask if I was ok.

[CrackityJones]

He’s got a hell of a job on his hands at Sunderland. Apparently he wasn’t there today but Symons was present to witness the makems break the record for the longest winless run at home.

[hookd]

Coleman quoted as stated that the next manager should be a Welshman.

All due respect Coleman you should now keep silent - you have nothing more to do with the Welsh squad. This is small town mentality. So if our only Welsh option was Hartson - we should take him over Moriniho? I dont think so! Stupid example I know but really - we could do without this!

[saints19]

Nov 18, 2017 9:34:34 GMT alarch said:

Nov 18, 2017 0:48:21 GMT saints19 said:

And here we are. A mere four days later, Coleman's gone and Scotland look like they will get O'Neill, who would IMO make an excellent replacement for Coleman.

I would be aking enquiries now, there may still be time.

Great manager for Northern Ireland for sure - but what makes you think that he would be able to manage a squad of much higher quality and play an appropriate brand of football? He has no track record of playing a progressive brand of football. With him, Allardyce or Pulis we would get pragmatic football. A bit like only taking a Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop.

Can anyone say we played progressive football in our wins against Belgium? There is no reason to believe O'Neill is anything other than a pragmatist. I have seen NI play some good stuff against teams they are expected to beat, and play the necessary stuff against better teams. At times they have been simply impressive against teams they might not even be favourites against. See the wins over Czech Rep (h), and Ukraine in the Euros for an example.

I personally would prefer a pragmatist. When Speed and Coleman switched to more pragmatic football tat is when the results came for them. Not while playing one too many passes in a move.

[alarch]

You must be watching a different Wales saints19. I think you will struggle to find any instances whereby we have scored goals from hopeful balls apart from the first goal against Israel away - where the Israeli defence stupidly allowed the ball to bounce through to Bale to nod back to Ramsey. When we score, we score by passing the ball, mainly to feet, or by getting into advanced positions before crossing the ball. Please watch the match against Georgia away again and you will see that pretty much all our chances were created by passing movements, and pretty much every chance we gifted to Georgia came about as a result of playing "pragmatic" hopeful balls.

When exactly did Speed switch to pragmatic football? He didn't - he had us playing football from the start of his tenure until its end.

As for our wins against Belgium - the home win was very much a back to the wall effort for sure, but we were very much reliant on being gifted the goal by Naingolan to get the victory. As for the game in the finals - that was probably the high point of Coleman's tenure - not just because of the result but because of the way we out-played Belgium. Do you really brand the way we out-passed them as pragmatic football? Seriously?

Given Osian Roberts' comments I'd be surprised if Giggs isn't appointed, which is very depressing. The best thing you can say about his appointment would be that at least he's an unknown quantity. Given his playing style and Man U background its likely that his approach would be an attacking one, although what tactical philosophy would underpin it is anyone's guess.

[saints19]

Nov 19, 2017 0:37:27 GMT alarch said:

You must be watching a different Wales saints19. I think you will struggle to find any instances whereby we have scored goals from hopeful balls apart from the first goal against Israel away - where the Israeli defence stupidly allowed the ball to bounce through to Bale to nod back to Ramsey. When we score, we score by passing the ball, mainly to feet, or by getting into advanced positions before crossing the ball. Please watch the match against Georgia away again and you will see that pretty much all our chances were created by passing movements, and pretty much every chance we gifted to Georgia came about as a result of playing "pragmatic" hopeful balls.

When exactly did Speed switch to pragmatic football? He didn't - he had us playing football from the start of his tenure until its end.

As for our wins against Belgium - the home win was very much a back to the wall effort for sure, but we were very much reliant on being gifted the goal by Naingolan. As for the game in the finals - that was probably the high point of Coleman's tenure - not just because of the result but because of the way we out-played Belgium. Do you really brand the way we out-passed them as pragmatic football? Seriously?

Given Osian Roberts' comments I'd be surprised if Giggs isn't appointed, which is very depressing. The best thing you can say about his appointment would be that at least he's an unknown quantity. Given his playing style and Man U background its likely that his approach would be an attacking one, although what tactical philosophy would underpin it is anyone's guess.

Speed started out playing very much a short passing game, passing sideways, not much variation in the passing and being too afraid to simply play the occasional (not regular) long ball. This began to change around the Montenegro home win and our results improved after that, probably the injuries situation helped a fair bit too. A few of our goals have been scored through such means, not just the goal v Israel. I mean, both goals in the Cyprus home game came as a result of fairly hopeful balls, for example. Of course, most do come about through well-crafted teamwork, which is fine - it makes the best of the talents we have on the field at the time.

I'm not sure you could say we outplayed Belgium in either game. The stats for both would disprove that.

At the end of the day, I'm all for playing freely in a game where it makes sense, but in some it doesn't. To respond to your point about the Georgia home game, I'd say the issue there was less the form of passing and more the fact we had 5-3-2 with midfielders who weren't up to that formation in the absence of Ramsey and Allen.

[iot]

Nov 19, 2017 0:37:27 GMT alarch said:

You must be watching a different Wales saints19. I think you will struggle to find any instances whereby we have scored goals from hopeful balls apart from the first goal against Israel away - where the Israeli defence stupidly allowed the ball to bounce through to Bale to nod back to Ramsey. When we score, we score by passing the ball, mainly to feet, or by getting into advanced positions before crossing the ball. Please watch the match against Georgia away again and you will see that pretty much all our chances were created by passing movements, and pretty much every chance we gifted to Georgia came about as a result of playing "pragmatic" hopeful balls.

When exactly did Speed switch to pragmatic football? He didn't - he had us playing football from the start of his tenure until its end.

As for our wins against Belgium - the home win was very much a back to the wall effort for sure, but we were very much reliant on being gifted the goal by Naingolan to get the victory. As for the game in the finals - that was probably the high point of Coleman's tenure - not just because of the result but because of the way we out-played Belgium. Do you really brand the way we out-passed them as pragmatic football? Seriously?

Given Osian Roberts' comments I'd be surprised if Giggs isn't appointed, which is very depressing. The best thing you can say about his appointment would be that at least he's an unknown quantity. Given his playing style and Man U background its likely that his approach would be an attacking one, although what tactical philosophy would underpin it is anyone's guess.

The whole we have scored few from "hopeful balls" and therefore playing a more direct style of play doesn't suit us thinking is a pretty large leap of logic for me. To begin with, "hopeful balls" is far too vague a statement if by that you mean long balls without any direction. I struggle to think of any examples of us playing long balls aimed at no one, we would only do that when there's a lot of pressure on one of our defenders or keeper and they just have to clear it if there's no one available to play it into their feet. There are other examples of us playing direct, long balls which have yielded opportunities and goals - look no further than the best goal scored of all time, where Bale pinged a 40 yarder from his own half onto Ramsey to set up HRK's cruyff turn goal. 

I struggle to think of any tiki taka type goals, does that mean we shouldn't play a possession-type game? 

With the players at our disposal (and from a selfish point of view), I would prefer us to play a possession type game. However, it's not as clear-cut as sometimes made out and in certain situations a more direct style is necessary.

[pendragon]

Nov 18, 2017 20:35:32 GMT hookd said:

Coleman quoted as stated that the next manager should be a Welshman.

All due respect Coleman you should now keep silent - you have nothing more to do with the Welsh squad. This is small town mentality. So if our only Welsh option was Hartson - we should take him over Moriniho? I dont think so! Stupid example I know but really - we could do without this!

I took it as insinuating hmmm, maybe he knows who his likely successor is going to be?

If so, he's just ruled out Henry.

But to be fair, it doesn't give us much of an insight into who he wants/ thinks should replace him.

Robinson, Pulis, Bellamy, Hartson... (at a push), Giggs??

[pendragon]

Nov 18, 2017 9:34:34 GMT alarch said:

Nov 18, 2017 0:48:21 GMT saints19 said:

And here we are. A mere four days later, Coleman's gone and Scotland look like they will get O'Neill, who would IMO make an excellent replacement for Coleman.

I would be aking enquiries now, there may still be time.

Great manager for Northern Ireland for sure - but what makes you think that he would be able to manage a squad of much higher quality and play an appropriate brand of football? He has no track record of playing a progressive brand of football. With him, Allardyce or Pulis we would get pragmatic football. A bit like only taking a Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop.

I agree actually. He brought out the best in that squad for sure and I have absolutely no doubt he will do the same with Scotland and get them relatively far in international tournaments. If I'm not mistaken, they also have a relatively exciting crop of new players coming through.

But have we seen what O'Neill can do with more - or slightly more - talented squads? He could get us some decent results, but we wouldn't necessarily get the results that we would want or need to progress further than we have previously done in these tournaments. Based on watching NI, they've moved mountains but we are better suited to a different sort of game imo.

[pendragon]

Nov 18, 2017 6:06:03 GMT cymruramdcfc said:

Why are we doubting the youngster allegences???
Has there been any proof that the might turn they back on us now after being in the set up?
Agree we need right manager to help them on and to bring in more and the names giggs/ Henry can do this not pulis/alladyce

Not doubting inasmuch as trying to see things from their point of view.
After the hard work Cookie and Osian has put into nurturing their talent and settling them into the first squads as seemlessly as possible, any change always has the potential to destabilise that.

We surely need to consider a candidate who is going to bring out the best in that young squad, for their own personal development and with regards to their future with Wales, when making the selection. 

[welwyn]

Nov 19, 2017 14:52:49 GMT pendragon said:

Nov 18, 2017 9:34:34 GMT alarch said:

Great manager for Northern Ireland for sure - but what makes you think that he would be able to manage a squad of much higher quality and play an appropriate brand of football? He has no track record of playing a progressive brand of football. With him, Allardyce or Pulis we would get pragmatic football. A bit like only taking a Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop.

I agree actually. He brought out the best in that squad for sure and I have absolutely no doubt he will do the same with Scotland and get them relatively far in international tournaments. If I'm not mistaken, they also have a relatively exciting crop of new players coming through.

But have we seen what O'Neill can do with more - or slightly more - talented squads? He could get us some decent results, but we wouldn't necessarily get the results that we would want or need to progress further than we have previously done in these tournaments. Based on watching NI, they've moved mountains but we are better suited to a different sort of game imo.

Can we stop talking about Michael O' Neill. I would agree with views that he might be a good option but he lives in Edinburgh anyway. No way does he not take the Scotland job, even if we offered him more money.

[pendragon]

Nov 19, 2017 15:27:44 GMT welwyn said:

Nov 19, 2017 14:52:49 GMT pendragon said:

I agree actually. He brought out the best in that squad for sure and I have absolutely no doubt he will do the same with Scotland and get them relatively far in international tournaments. If I'm not mistaken, they also have a relatively exciting crop of new players coming through.

But have we seen what O'Neill can do with more - or slightly more - talented squads? He could get us some decent results, but we wouldn't necessarily get the results that we would want or need to progress further than we have previously done in these tournaments. Based on watching NI, they've moved mountains but we are better suited to a different sort of game imo.

Can we stop talking about Michael O' Neill. I would agree with views that he might be a good option but he lives in Edinburgh anyway. No way does he not take the Scotland job, even if we offered him more money.

My post was in direct response to someone else's comments as part of a constructive discussion.

I said I didn't think he'd be a good option for us and he's probably moving to pastures new anyway.

I don't see a problem with discussing something if another poster brings up a point I believe to be worthy of constructive debate.

[pendragon]

Have people seen this?

I've also referenced it in the "Ryan Giggs hate" thread.. Not going to repeat what I have posted on there, but here's the link I'm referring to:

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42038653

IF true, this is a very interesting insight into the FAW's discussions with Coleman. IF this is true, it looks like they pulled out all the stops.

[saints19]

Nov 19, 2017 14:52:49 GMT pendragon said:

Nov 18, 2017 9:34:34 GMT alarch said:

Great manager for Northern Ireland for sure - but what makes you think that he would be able to manage a squad of much higher quality and play an appropriate brand of football? He has no track record of playing a progressive brand of football. With him, Allardyce or Pulis we would get pragmatic football. A bit like only taking a Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop.

I agree actually. He brought out the best in that squad for sure and I have absolutely no doubt he will do the same with Scotland and get them relatively far in international tournaments. If I'm not mistaken, they also have a relatively exciting crop of new players coming through.

But have we seen what O'Neill can do with more - or slightly more - talented squads? He could get us some decent results, but we wouldn't necessarily get the results that we would want or need to progress further than we have previously done in these tournaments. Based on watching NI, they've moved mountains but we are better suited to a different sort of game imo.

He got NI to a World Cup play off, whilst we failed to reach that stage. OK, we beat NI in the Euros but he turned it into more of a game than the squads on paper would have suggested it should have been. Isn't that basically what we need to achieve the dream of reaching a World Cup? We will need to beat teams as good or better than us.

[ih65]

Nov 18, 2017 11:27:46 GMT dai said:

Not going to lie, been feeling a bit emotional at times since hearing the news.

It's been special, special times to be a Welsh football fan. We've ridden on a crest of emotion and ecstacy that has not been felt for a long time.

The connection between the fans, players and Coleman has been incredible. I'm not sure what manager can now convey that passion for the shirt, from the players down to the fans. He has gone up and down the country, capturing the spirit and imagination of every Welsh person he met.

Fuck sakes, he's going to be hard to replace. Didn't completely realise that before his resignation.

Agree, right bummer of a start to the weekend.

[dai]

A few players making tributes on social media with the #diolchchris hashtag. How often do you see things like that in modern football? Shows how highly thought of and loved by the players he was.

[ih65]

Longer it went on, the more likely I thought he would stay on. Said so to my boss in work on Friday afternoon (rare social discussion). Where could he go was the verdict - now we know! Also said that it did seem like CC was starting to negotiate in public and by making demands known, this might get the back up of some at the FAW, who might dig in the heels at an employee telling them the structure they should have in place.

Cheers for the ride Chris & good luck at SFC

[dai]

Nov 19, 2017 22:27:55 GMT ih65 said:

Longer it went on, the more likely I thought he would stay on. Said so to my boss in work on Friday afternoon (rare social discussion). Where could he go was the verdict - now we know! Also said that it did seem like CC was starting to negotiate in public and by making demands known, this might get the back up of some at the FAW, who might dig in the heels at an employee telling them the structure they should have in place.

Cheers for the ride Chris & good luck at SFC

That's weird, I thought the opposite!

It was becoming clear to me there was a bit of a stand off between them, and neither party could come to an agreement. If all was ok between them both, the contract would have been settled weeks ago.

Very strange seeing him in Sunderland kit today. :-(

[manulike]

OFW latest portrait

[quetzal]

Ultimately Cookie took the coin. We can’t blame him. Football management is a very fickle world. It’s a kick in the teeth though when he chooses Sunderland. Hate to admit this but taking Wales to a semi-final of a major, he might have felt he’ll never get near that again. Goodluck Cookie

P.S. Stay off the wine you complete pisshead clown

[yanto]

Nov 18, 2017 9:34:34 GMT alarch said:

Nov 18, 2017 0:48:21 GMT saints19 said:

And here we are. A mere four days later, Coleman's gone and Scotland look like they will get O'Neill, who would IMO make an excellent replacement for Coleman.

I would be aking enquiries now, there may still be time.

Great manager for Northern Ireland for sure - but what makes you think that he would be able to manage a squad of much higher quality and play an appropriate brand of football? He has no track record of playing a progressive brand of football. With him, Allardyce or Pulis we would get pragmatic football. A bit like only taking a Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop.

Where i live its a 20 mile drive to tescos on amazing country rides fab for a ferrari😀.....just saying