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Post by dai on Oct 7, 2020 12:32:16 GMT
www.lastampa.it/sport/calcio/2020/10/07/news/covid-segnalati-dalla-asl-sette-giocatori-della-juve-1.39391231Italian media saying that Turin health authorities have reported players which left isolation early to join up with their national teams to the local public prosecutor. So perhaps the FAW (and the French association) have just been a bit more cautious. Apparently it was the club who notified the health authorities. The player who haven't yet traveled to join up with their national teams will be getting a second test today or tomorrow. But Juve were allowed to play against Napoli in the Italian league? Doesn't make sense to me. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 13:35:37 GMT
it was reported ramseys decision to err on the side of caution. I love ramsey but look how many internationals he's pulled out of... he's done it for years.
Anyone got the stats... can't be much worse than giggs in his prime. No where near as committed as bale
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Post by hal on Oct 7, 2020 13:54:45 GMT
it was reported ramseys decision to err on the side of caution. I love ramsey but look how many internationals he's pulled out of... he's done it for years. Anyone got the stats... can't be much worse than giggs in his prime. No where near as committed as bale Have to agree with this. The only difference is that Giggs was the main big player at the time that we “needed” to succeed and we never did succeed without him (or with him really). So therefore when he wasn’t there it was reported and talked about a lot more. Whereas with Aaron we now have a lot better squad and have been successful on occasions when he hasn’t played (apart from Ireland WCQ I can’t think of any BIG games he has missed through injury that we’ve failed to win). |
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Post by texan on Oct 7, 2020 14:04:38 GMT
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Post by iot on Oct 7, 2020 14:46:25 GMT
it was reported ramseys decision to err on the side of caution. I love ramsey but look how many internationals he's pulled out of... he's done it for years. Anyone got the stats... can't be much worse than giggs in his prime. No where near as committed as bale That's rubbish. Giggs missed 31 of the 40 friendlies played during his international career. Ramsey's missed lots of games when injured (and those injuries have almost always included him missing club games as well as internationals), but I think you're wrong to say he's been pulling out of squads for years. As far as I can recall, there have only been 3 pull-outs which have all taken place recently - there's this one, which looks more and more justifiable, the one before the last round of games (to focus on saving his Juve career), and the slovakia/croatia double header where he did fly back to cardiff in the hope he would be able to prove his fitness for the second game, but wasn't quite able to make it. All other exclusions from squads, as far as I can recall, are due to verifiable injuries. If he flies back for the two nations league games, as has been reported, I don't think there's any valid case for questioning his commitment. |
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Post by foxmulder on Oct 7, 2020 14:56:07 GMT
It's absolute nonsense like this, why I rarely post on here anymore. It's almost as bad as Twitter.
For every game Ramsey has pulled out, there has been a genuine reason. Just look each one up instead of knee-jerk reactions.
In the last campaign he actually turned up to two camps but was injured before the games. If there was a plan not to play, he wouldn't have flown from Italy.
Remember when Ramsey flew out to Macedonia with a depleted squad when we already out of qualification for that campaign? Why would he bother? Probably because he cares about Wales.
Or here's one for you... he missed his son's birthday to be at a camp in the last campaign.
People would even kick off if he had a bereavement. Just do some research.
I'll post again in three months.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 7, 2020 15:02:41 GMT
Remember when Ramsey flew out to Macedonia with a depleted squad when we already out of qualification for that campaign? Why would he bother? Probably because he cares about Wales. Flew without the boss as well. |
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Post by foxmulder on Oct 7, 2020 15:35:45 GMT
Remember when Ramsey flew out to Macedonia with a depleted squad when we already out of qualification for that campaign? Why would he bother? Probably because he cares about Wales. Flew without the boss as well. haha yes!! |
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Post by iot on Oct 7, 2020 15:55:11 GMT
It's absolute nonsense like this, why I rarely post on here anymore. It's almost as bad as Twitter. For every game Ramsey has pulled out, there has been a genuine reason. Just look each one up instead of knee-jerk reactions. In the last campaign he actually turned up to two camps but was injured before the games. If there was a plan not to play, he wouldn't have flown from Italy. Remember when Ramsey flew out to Macedonia with a depleted squad when we already out of qualification for that campaign? Why would he bother? Probably because he cares about Wales. Or here's one for you... he missed his son's birthday to be at a camp in the last campaign. People would even kick off if he had a bereavement. Just do some research. I'll post again in three months. That's all very well and good, but doing some research would stop people from having a good moan  |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 15:56:48 GMT
It's absolute nonsense like this, why I rarely post on here anymore. It's almost as bad as Twitter. For every game Ramsey has pulled out, there has been a genuine reason. Just look each one up instead of knee-jerk reactions. In the last campaign he actually turned up to two camps but was injured before the games. If there was a plan not to play, he wouldn't have flown from Italy. Remember when Ramsey flew out to Macedonia with a depleted squad when we already out of qualification for that campaign? Why would he bother? Probably because he cares about Wales. Or here's one for you... he missed his son's birthday to be at a camp in the last campaign. People would even kick off if he had a bereavement. Just do some research. I'll post again in three months. your kidding yourself mate he's constantly pulled out of squads. here's some research: Chris Gunter* Caps 97 ryan giggs 64 Aaron Ramsey Caps 60 say gunter came through same time as Ramsey he's got 37 more caps. Ramsey has 8 appaearances in 2018 & 2019 - Chris gunter has 11 - despite not being first choice |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 16:10:13 GMT
It's absolute nonsense like this, why I rarely post on here anymore. It's almost as bad as Twitter. For every game Ramsey has pulled out, there has been a genuine reason. Just look each one up instead of knee-jerk reactions. In the last campaign he actually turned up to two camps but was injured before the games. If there was a plan not to play, he wouldn't have flown from Italy. Remember when Ramsey flew out to Macedonia with a depleted squad when we already out of qualification for that campaign? Why would he bother? Probably because he cares about Wales. Or here's one for you... he missed his son's birthday to be at a camp in the last campaign. People would even kick off if he had a bereavement. Just do some research. I'll post again in three months. That's all very well and good, but doing some research would stop people from having a good moan its not having a moan its taking those blinkers off. Great player for wales yes, is he always there no! |
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Post by superunknown on Oct 7, 2020 16:13:35 GMT
It's absolute nonsense like this, why I rarely post on here anymore. It's almost as bad as Twitter. For every game Ramsey has pulled out, there has been a genuine reason. Just look each one up instead of knee-jerk reactions. In the last campaign he actually turned up to two camps but was injured before the games. If there was a plan not to play, he wouldn't have flown from Italy. Remember when Ramsey flew out to Macedonia with a depleted squad when we already out of qualification for that campaign? Why would he bother? Probably because he cares about Wales. Or here's one for you... he missed his son's birthday to be at a camp in the last campaign. People would even kick off if he had a bereavement. Just do some research. I'll post again in three months. your kidding yourself mate he's constantly pulled out of squads. here's some research: Chris Gunter* Caps 97 ryan giggs 64 Aaron Ramsey Caps 60 say gunter came through same time as Ramsey he's got 37 more caps. Ramsey has 8 appaearances in 2018 & 2019 - Chris gunter has 11 - despite not being first choice Ah yes, Chris Gunter famous for playing 63 consecutive matches for Wales. He's our most capped player and famously is rarely injured. Ramsey unfortunately suffers a lot of injuries. It is unbelievably harsh to compare him with Gunter when Ramsey has suffered a leg break in that time as well as numerous other injuries. Would put the majority of those 37 caps down to Gunters fitness and Ramsey's injury record. Why are people so hellbent on crucifying our players the second they pull out of a squad without asking why they've had to pull out. |
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Post by foxmulder on Oct 7, 2020 16:14:43 GMT
I know he's pulled out of squads... I've not denied that. He's pulled out of lots. But there's a genuine reason for each one. Do some proper research instead of quoting a different player.
But if you want to compare him to Gunter...
They came through at the same time, but at one point Ramsey broke his leg where he missed nearly a whole season. Then during his comeback, he had quite a few injuries which is expected when a player comes back from a long absence. He missed a lot of Arsenal games that season for the same injuries.
Before the 2014 campaign, he tore his hamstring and missed four Wales games. He also missed all of Arsenals games.
When Wales we're out of qualification, he travelled to Belgium and Macedonia for games. Also played a home game against Macedonia. I know it's only "home", but do you still fancy a pointless drive from London to Cardiff and stay there for five days for a dead rubber?
Just before flying out to Israel, his grandmother died. He played, he scored.
Again, he missed his son's birthday for a camp. He was injured during that camp then was released but still missed his birthday. If that's not dedication then I don't know what is.
At the moment he's following lockdown procedures and good on him. Why would he want to miss a game against England when he played against Spain last year? He's even on his way for the unglamorous games that follow.
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 16:16:09 GMT
your kidding yourself mate he's constantly pulled out of squads. here's some research: Chris Gunter* Caps 97 ryan giggs 64 Aaron Ramsey Caps 60 say gunter came through same time as Ramsey he's got 37 more caps. Ramsey has 8 appaearances in 2018 & 2019 - Chris gunter has 11 - despite not being first choice Ah yes, Chris Gunter famous for playing 63 consecutive matches for Wales. He's our most capped player and famously is rarely injured. Ramsey unfortunately suffers a lot of injuries. It is unbelievably harsh to compare him with Gunter when Ramsey has suffered a leg break in that time as well as numerous other injuries. Would put the majority of those 37 caps down to Gunters fitness and Ramsey's injury record. Why are people so hellbent on crucifying our players the second they pull out of a squad without asking why they've had to pull out. yes he's been injured but come on - how about sam vokes 64 caps? Bale - they say he's like glass - 85 caps. Like i say awesome player i love him but too often he's out for us. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 16:17:44 GMT
I know he's pulled out of squads... I've not denied that. He's pulled out of lots. But there's a genuine reason for each one. Do some proper research instead of quoting a different player. But if you want to compare him to Gunter... They came through at the same time, but at one point Ramsey broke his leg where he missed nearly a whole season. Then during his comeback, he had quite a few injuries which is expected when a player comes back from a long absence. He missed a lot of Arsenal games that season for the same injuries. Before the 2014 campaign, he tore his hamstring and missed four Wales games. He also missed all of Arsenals games. When Wales we're out of qualification, he travelled to Belgium and Macedonia for games. Also played a home game against Macedonia. I know it's only "home", but do you still fancy a pointless drive from London to Cardiff and stay there for five days for a dead rubber? Just before flying out to Israel, his grandmother died. He played, he scored. Again, he missed his son's birthday for a camp. He was injured during that camp then was released but still missed his birthday. If that's not dedication then I don't know what is. At the moment he's following lockdown procedures and good on him. Why would he want to miss a game against England when he played against Spain last year? He's even on his way for the unglamorous games that follow. Bale 85 caps Vokes 64 caps  He missed a year out with his leg but come on |
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Post by foxmulder on Oct 7, 2020 16:19:13 GMT
In 2022 Wales will play Andorra away. Ramsey makes the trip and scores a hatrick.
Wales then play Azerbaijan away, Ramsey scores a hatrick.
Wales then play San Marino away. 11 players have pulled out of the squad for various reasons. But Ramsey plays and gets hatrick. Gunter gets his 97th cap.
Wales play England at home. Ramsey doesn't attend because five days before he'd be abducted by aliens and subjected to horrific experiments. He needs to rest at home but then his house burns down. This board... HE DOESN'T CARE!!!
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Post by foxmulder on Oct 7, 2020 16:19:55 GMT
I know he's pulled out of squads... I've not denied that. He's pulled out of lots. But there's a genuine reason for each one. Do some proper research instead of quoting a different player. But if you want to compare him to Gunter... They came through at the same time, but at one point Ramsey broke his leg where he missed nearly a whole season. Then during his comeback, he had quite a few injuries which is expected when a player comes back from a long absence. He missed a lot of Arsenal games that season for the same injuries. Before the 2014 campaign, he tore his hamstring and missed four Wales games. He also missed all of Arsenals games. When Wales we're out of qualification, he travelled to Belgium and Macedonia for games. Also played a home game against Macedonia. I know it's only "home", but do you still fancy a pointless drive from London to Cardiff and stay there for five days for a dead rubber? Just before flying out to Israel, his grandmother died. He played, he scored. Again, he missed his son's birthday for a camp. He was injured during that camp then was released but still missed his birthday. If that's not dedication then I don't know what is. At the moment he's following lockdown procedures and good on him. Why would he want to miss a game against England when he played against Spain last year? He's even on his way for the unglamorous games that follow. Bale 85 caps Vokes 64 caps He missed a year out with his leg but come on I type all of that and that's all you have? You have got to be fictional! |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 16:25:36 GMT
Bale 85 caps Vokes 64 caps He missed a year out with his leg but come on I type all of that and that's all you have? You have got to be fictional! thing is you're just cherry picking the good parts Im pointing out something which seems unpalatable to you. We go could on and bring up games he's missed for wales but then immediately played for Juve or Arsenal. Its not worth it though - I've watched numerous squad announcements with the disappointment of ramsey missing out. Only for him to play the weekend after. Of course you'll say he's had time to recover by then. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 7, 2020 16:58:12 GMT
I type all of that and that's all you have? You have got to be fictional! thing is you're just cherry picking the good parts Im pointing out something which seems unpalatable to you. We go could on and bring up games he's missed for wales but then immediately played for Juve or Arsenal. Its not worth it though - I've watched numerous squad announcements with the disappointment of ramsey missing out. Only for him to play the weekend after. Of course you'll say he's had time to recover by then. Thing is you haven't quoted any actual evidence supporting your view - at the moment it just comes across like you're trolling/not being serious You're talking as if there are so many times Ramsey has missed a game for us without good reason & then played for Arsenal/Juventus - yet you then say yourself it's not worth it to look it up to demonstrate your point. Seems a bit convenient! I'm sorry but unless you can actually find those examples it's hard to take you seriously |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 17:06:19 GMT
thing is you're just cherry picking the good parts Im pointing out something which seems unpalatable to you. We go could on and bring up games he's missed for wales but then immediately played for Juve or Arsenal. Its not worth it though - I've watched numerous squad announcements with the disappointment of ramsey missing out. Only for him to play the weekend after. Of course you'll say he's had time to recover by then. Thing is you haven't quoted any actual evidence supporting your view - at the moment it just comes across like you're trolling/not being serious You're talking as if there are so many times Ramsey has missed a game for us without good reason & then played for Arsenal/Juventus - yet you then say yourself it's not worth it to look it up to demonstrate your point. Seems a bit convenient! I'm sorry but unless you can actually find those examples it's hard to take you seriously Lets look at the facts which are easy for us all to digest - caps/games played. Tell me why does Bale have 25 more caps than Ramsey? both injury prone players, played for big clubs, starters for club and country. Both played abroad. |
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Post by foxmulder on Oct 7, 2020 17:12:31 GMT
Comparing to other players is not evidence as it has to come down to the individual.
You're saying I'm cherry picking but let's be fair, a dead nan and missed son's birthday are pretty big cherries. At least it's some evidence for you. You haven't given any.
But again if you want a Bale example, I'm pretty sure he won 10 of those caps whilst Ramsey's leg was broken. I also remember people saying Bale didn't care when he didn't play against The Netherlands away. There was even a chant "Where the F is Gareth Bale?"
Last chance mate, come back with a solid example. Or I'll bring up the troll card too and you can vanish back to twitter.
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 17:19:54 GMT
Comparing to other players is not evidence as it has to come down to the individual. You're saying I'm cherry picking but let's be fair, a dead nan and missed son's birthday are pretty big cherries. At least it's some evidence for you. You haven't given any. But again if you want a Bale example, I'm pretty sure he won 10 of those caps whilst Ramsey's leg was broken. I also remember people saying Bale didn't care when he didn't play against The Netherlands away. There was even a chant "Where the F is Gareth Bale?" Last chance mate, come back with a solid example. Or I'll bring up the troll card too and you can vanish back to twitter. you're troll card??! - check how many posts have on this forum. 'im pretty sure' and he 'missed a sons birthday; are not hard evidence of ramsey being committed. You want me to be greatful for him turning up to friendlies and travelling to macedonia!! ive given you solid examples in caps attained but just because you don't like the truth you don't want to believe it. Like i say love the player but he's not as committed as you are making out here. He'd still start for me any day! |
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Oct 7, 2020 17:28:19 GMT
Thing is you haven't quoted any actual evidence supporting your view - at the moment it just comes across like you're trolling/not being serious You're talking as if there are so many times Ramsey has missed a game for us without good reason & then played for Arsenal/Juventus - yet you then say yourself it's not worth it to look it up to demonstrate your point. Seems a bit convenient! I'm sorry but unless you can actually find those examples it's hard to take you seriously Lets look at the facts which are easy for us all to digest - caps/games played. Tell me why does Bale have 25 more caps than Ramsey? both injury prone players, played for big clubs, starters for club and country. Both played abroad. Ramsey's two years younger than Bale, and whilst both have had injury problems throughout their career, Bale didn't miss a year with a double leg break. With those two factors isn't mind, there isn't a lot between them. |
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Post by foxmulder on Oct 7, 2020 17:41:35 GMT
Comparing to other players is not evidence as it has to come down to the individual. You're saying I'm cherry picking but let's be fair, a dead nan and missed son's birthday are pretty big cherries. At least it's some evidence for you. You haven't given any. But again if you want a Bale example, I'm pretty sure he won 10 of those caps whilst Ramsey's leg was broken. I also remember people saying Bale didn't care when he didn't play against The Netherlands away. There was even a chant "Where the F is Gareth Bale?" Last chance mate, come back with a solid example. Or I'll bring up the troll card too and you can vanish back to twitter. you're troll card??! - check how many posts have on this forum. 'im pretty sure' and he 'missed a sons birthday; are not hard evidence of ramsey being committed. You want me to be greatful for him turning up to friendlies and travelling to macedonia!! ive given you solid examples in caps attained but just because you don't like the truth you don't want to believe it. Like i say love the player but he's not as committed as you are making out here. He'd still start for me any day! I'm gonna screenshot this post. Its probably one of the most fun things I've read. Well done!! |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 17:48:31 GMT
you're troll card??! - check how many posts have on this forum. 'im pretty sure' and he 'missed a sons birthday; are not hard evidence of ramsey being committed. You want me to be greatful for him turning up to friendlies and travelling to macedonia!! ive given you solid examples in caps attained but just because you don't like the truth you don't want to believe it. Like i say love the player but he's not as committed as you are making out here. He'd still start for me any day! I'm gonna screenshot this post. Its probably one of the most fun things I've read. Well done!! congratulations! |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 17:53:15 GMT
Lets look at the facts which are easy for us all to digest - caps/games played. Tell me why does Bale have 25 more caps than Ramsey? both injury prone players, played for big clubs, starters for club and country. Both played abroad. Ramsey's two years younger than Bale, and whilst both have had injury problems throughout their career, Bale didn't miss a year with a double leg break. With those two factors isn't mind, there isn't a lot between them. Fair point so I've got bale 631 days injured ramsey 843 days injured based on that i would say we have a more committed bale |
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Post by dai on Oct 7, 2020 18:11:01 GMT
Well, this thread got a bit exciting.  |
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Oct 7, 2020 18:11:18 GMT
Ramsey's two years younger than Bale, and whilst both have had injury problems throughout their career, Bale didn't miss a year with a double leg break. With those two factors isn't mind, there isn't a lot between them. Fair point so I've got bale 631 days injured ramsey 843 days injured based on that i would say we have a more committed bale Yeah, so you've got the best part of a year there, adding to that he made his international debut over two years after Bale did (May 2006, compared to November 2008) and you've got three years of international football. On a rough average of 8 games of international football a year, that's 24 games, and there's 25 caps between them. If you want to look at the broader picture of caps, rather than the reasoning behind any absences, then it doesn't show any difference between the two players level of commitment. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 7, 2020 18:45:01 GMT
Fair point so I've got bale 631 days injured ramsey 843 days injured based on that i would say we have a more committed bale Yeah, so you've got the best part of a year there, adding to that he made his international debut over two years after Bale did (May 2006, compared to November 2008) and you've got three years of international football. On a rough average of 8 games of international football a year, that's 24 games, and there's 25 caps between them. If you want to look at the broader picture of caps, rather than the reasoning behind any absences, then it doesn't show any difference between the two players level of commitment. all well and good if he can do that but he's played a total of 8 games since 2018 whereas bale has played 17 Something doesn't add up there |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 7, 2020 19:00:51 GMT
Thing is you haven't quoted any actual evidence supporting your view - at the moment it just comes across like you're trolling/not being serious You're talking as if there are so many times Ramsey has missed a game for us without good reason & then played for Arsenal/Juventus - yet you then say yourself it's not worth it to look it up to demonstrate your point. Seems a bit convenient! I'm sorry but unless you can actually find those examples it's hard to take you seriously Lets look at the facts which are easy for us all to digest - caps/games played. Tell me why does Bale have 25 more caps than Ramsey? both injury prone players, played for big clubs, starters for club and country. Both played abroad. I agree, let's look at facts. I love facts because you can't dispute them. So, if you just look at just caps you're ignoring all the other many variables that contribute to someone turning out for their country. It's a simplistic & quite frankly a reductionistic way of looking at something. With that in mind here's some additional facts that you need to consider if you want to look at the whole picture 1) Bale had played 15 times for Wales before Ramsey's first cap - so that negates 15 of those 25 extra caps you mention. In reality since Ramsey's debut Bale has played 10 extra games in total 2) Ramsey broke his leg in 2010 meaning he couldn't play that year - not his fault as I'm sure you'd agree. Bale picked up 4 caps that year, so if we both agree this wasn't Ramsey's fault we can agree to chalk off those 4 caps Bale gained on him - as it's clearly not a question of Ramsey's effort or lack thereof 3) With that in mind we're talking about only 6 extra caps for Bale - the majority of which I'd be willing to bet are down to legitimate injury, although you can argue Bale's commitment over only 6 extra caps if you wish. Although... 4) When you remove Ramsey's leg break year - they both average 6 games per year for Wales. Hardly looks like much of a difference between their turnout records to me Seems as though your comparison to Bale has fallen apart in light of these facts - do you have anything else to support your view? |
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