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Post by dai on Oct 7, 2020 22:31:29 GMT
Just for kicks, here are other matches he missed yet turned out for Arsenal after the international break was over; Euro 2016 Qualifiers : Bosnia 10th, Cyprus 13th October, played for Arsenal on the 18th Friendly : Wales v Panama - Nov 14 2017, played for Arsenal 4 days afterwards. China Cup : Didn't feature at all, last game being Uruguay 26th March, yet played for Arsenal on the 1st April. Underwent a 'minor procedure'. Nations League : Ireland 0 Wales 1 - October 16 2018, played for Arsenal 22nd October Euro 2020 Qualifier : Wales v Slovakia, 24 March 2019, played for arsenal straight after the international break Euro 2020 Qualifier : Wales vs Azerbaijan Sept 6, Belarus friendly Sept 9, five days later is in the Juve squad I don't want this thread to turn into a Ramsey bashing thread btw, but you can't deny there has been a pattern here - I noticed long ago there was a tendency to suddenly be fit for club after the international break.Interesting find. Slap on the wrist for me as I missed those- I thought his record had got better post Euro 2016, but it looks like he has still had a tendency to miss a game here and there whilst appearing for his club after for a while now. Is there any point going back further? Nah. You could argue this is nit picking, however even my father, who doesn't show much interest in players' club appearances has noticed Ramsey seems unfit for Wales and then fit for club. He has been very unlucky with injuries, and it may just be coincidental timing each time. Just as a fan, it's very frustrating to see happening - and often enough to be noted. |
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Post by insertname on Oct 7, 2020 23:22:16 GMT
Interesting find. Slap on the wrist for me as I missed those- I thought his record had got better post Euro 2016, but it looks like he has still had a tendency to miss a game here and there whilst appearing for his club after for a while now. Is there any point going back further? Nah. You could argue this is nit picking, however even my father, who doesn't show much interest in players' club appearances has noticed Ramsey seems unfit for Wales and then fit for club. He has been very unlucky with injuries, and it may just be coincidental timing each time. Just as a fan, it's very frustrating to see happening - and often enough to be noted. And yet I was mocked for suggesting he has something of a reputation! Who knows what the real truth is. Maybe it was his club, maybe it was the FAW and maybe it is him himself. I’m not sure I can blame clubs so much because they will obviously pressure the player as it’s in their interest. I do think players should be asserting their right to play international football if they really want to play international football so for me a lot of the time the buck stops with the player. Mind you I think we haven’t helped ourselves at times, Coleman and Giggs seem to have taken a very passive approach with the clubs as we seem to have now with Juventus. |
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Post by impeachabull on Oct 8, 2020 6:29:16 GMT
Euro 2016 Qualifiers : Bosnia 10th, Cyprus 13th October, played for Arsenal on the 18th
Two weeks before the break he's pulled off against Tottenham at half-time with a hamstring injury, and five days before it he's completed omitted from a fairly crucial Arsenal league game against Chelsea. Friendly : Wales v Panama - Nov 14 2017, played for Arsenal 4 days afterwards.
Played four days before this for us V France and then pulled out after Bale and 3 others did too. "A Football Association of Wales spokesman has said it was never the intention for Ramsey to play against Panama." China Cup : Didn't feature at all, last game being Uruguay 26th March, yet played for Arsenal on the 1st April. Underwent a 'minor procedure'.
Not in the squad for either of Arsenal's Premier Leagues games for the two gameweeks before this. Nations League : Ireland 0 Wales 1 - October 16 2018, played for Arsenal 22nd October
His wife was giving birth to twins. Euro 2020 Qualifier : Wales v Slovakia, 24 March 2019, played for Arsenal straight after the international break
Possibly a bit of a case for this one. In his defence, he joined up with the squad and then went home injured. Arsenal didn't play until 8 days after the Slovakia game and he got 60 minutes. Euro 2020 Qualifier : Wales vs Azerbaijan Sept 6, Belarus friendly Sept 9, five days later is in the Juve squad
Missed both of Juve's games before the break and was an unused sub after the break.
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Post by superunknown on Oct 8, 2020 7:18:09 GMT
Thing is you haven't quoted any actual evidence supporting your view - at the moment it just comes across like you're trolling/not being serious You're talking as if there are so many times Ramsey has missed a game for us without good reason & then played for Arsenal/Juventus - yet you then say yourself it's not worth it to look it up to demonstrate your point. Seems a bit convenient! I'm sorry but unless you can actually find those examples it's hard to take you seriously Lets look at the facts which are easy for us all to digest - caps/games played. Tell me why does Bale have 25 more caps than Ramsey? both injury prone players, played for big clubs, starters for club and country. Both played abroad. So you're not interested in the fact that there is a valid reason for Ramsey pulling out/not being in the squad every time, you're only interested in the singular surface level cap statistic? Bale started playing regularly for Wales about 2 years before Ramsey before did, would count for a fair few caps there alone. As well as this, as has already been said Ramsey has suffered a leg break and numerous other injuries. Bale has also suffered some bad injuries but not to the same extent. Vokes as far as I can remember has rarely been injured and was one of our only striker options for years. I do find this obsession of slating Ramsey who very clearly loves playing for Wales and meeting up with the team a bit weird. Just enjoy him while we have him, football's a short career and he's been instrumental in one of our most successful periods, we'll miss him once he's gone. |
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Post by jackanapes on Oct 8, 2020 7:19:30 GMT
He’s suffered from muscle injuries throughout his career and has missed important matches for both club and country. The sane view is he needs careful management to keep him fit long term.
The crazy view is he’s not committed, can’t be bothered and is in thrall to the illuminati lizard people. I’m frankly getting sick of the malcontents who will try to sour just about anything.
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Post by dai on Oct 8, 2020 7:22:12 GMT
Euro 2016 Qualifiers : Bosnia 10th, Cyprus 13th October, played for Arsenal on the 18th
Two weeks before the break he's pulled off against Tottenham at half-time with a hamstring injury, and five days before it he's completed omitted from a fairly crucial Arsenal league game against Chelsea. Friendly : Wales v Panama - Nov 14 2017, played for Arsenal 4 days afterwards.
Played four days before this for us V France and then pulled out after Bale and 3 others did too. "A Football Association of Wales spokesman has said it was never the intention for Ramsey to play against Panama." China Cup : Didn't feature at all, last game being Uruguay 26th March, yet played for Arsenal on the 1st April. Underwent a 'minor procedure'.
Not in the squad for either of Arsenal's Premier Leagues games for the two gameweeks before this. Nations League : Ireland 0 Wales 1 - October 16 2018, played for Arsenal 22nd October
His wife was giving birth to twins. Euro 2020 Qualifier : Wales v Slovakia, 24 March 2019, played for Arsenal straight after the international break
Possibly a bit of a case for this one. In his defence, he joined up with the squad and then went home injured. Arsenal didn't play until 8 days after the Slovakia game and he got 60 minutes. Euro 2020 Qualifier : Wales vs Azerbaijan Sept 6, Belarus friendly Sept 9, five days later is in the Juve squad
Missed both of Juve's games before the break and was an unused sub after the break. You are clearly just as bored as me! |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 7:23:53 GMT
Lets look at the facts which are easy for us all to digest - caps/games played. Tell me why does Bale have 25 more caps than Ramsey? both injury prone players, played for big clubs, starters for club and country. Both played abroad. So you're not interested in the fact that there is a valid reason for Ramsey pulling out/not being in the squad every time, you're only interested in the singular surface level cap statistic? Bale started playing regularly for Wales about 2 years before Ramsey before did, would count for a fair few caps there alone. As well as this, as has already been said Ramsey has suffered a leg break and numerous other injuries. Bale has also suffered some bad injuries but not to the same extent. Vokes as far as I can remember has rarely been injured and was one of our only striker options for years. I do find this obsession who very clear loves playing for Wales and meeting up with the team a bit weird. Just enjoy him while we have him, football's a short career and he's been instrumental in one of our most successful periods, we'll miss him once he's gone. John Charles made less than 40 appearances for us. Strike him from the Welsh hall of fame, he has no business being there! Grrr! |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 8, 2020 7:53:35 GMT
Lets look at the facts which are easy for us all to digest - caps/games played. Tell me why does Bale have 25 more caps than Ramsey? both injury prone players, played for big clubs, starters for club and country. Both played abroad. So you're not interested in the fact that there is a valid reason for Ramsey pulling out/not being in the squad every time, you're only interested in the singular surface level cap statistic? Bale started playing regularly for Wales about 2 years before Ramsey before did, would count for a fair few caps there alone. As well as this, as has already been said Ramsey has suffered a leg break and numerous other injuries. Bale has also suffered some bad injuries but not to the same extent. Vokes as far as I can remember has rarely been injured and was one of our only striker options for years. I do find this obsession of slating Ramsey who very clearly loves playing for Wales and meeting up with the team a bit weird. Just enjoy him while we have him, football's a short career and he's been instrumental in one of our most successful periods, we'll miss him once he's gone. you're completely missing the point here - its not about slating him. He's a good player and we want him to play every time but there are cases when he just isn't reliable. A lot of people must wait for the squad announcement these days and expect a ramsey pull out. What stats are we going to use then if we can't use the fact that we've played 22 games since 2018 and ramsey has featured in just 8 of those. Fairly unlucky or is he pulling out of these to use the time to recover after picking up minor knocks? My concern is that he 'seems' less committed since giggs has been managing us. why i don't know but its something i have noticed. |
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Post by impeachabull on Oct 8, 2020 7:57:04 GMT
Ramsey is injury prone and misses a lot of games as a result. Instead of skirting round the issue with these "I'm just noting games he's missed" posts. Why don't you guys name a few instances of him not playing which you think are bogus? Then people can look at them and make their own mind up.
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Post by njdragon on Oct 8, 2020 7:57:15 GMT
He’s suffered from muscle injuries throughout his career and has missed important matches for both club and country. The sane view is he needs careful management to keep him fit long term. The crazy view is he’s not committed, can’t be bothered and is in thrall to the illuminati lizard people. I’m frankly getting sick of the malcontents who will try to sour just about anything. careful management that rules him out of almost every qualifier for us the last few years? Im getting sick of these rose tinted spectacles. He's hardly played for us the last few years! Ronaldo played last night why did ramsey decide himself to take the cautious approach and not travel. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:00:26 GMT
He’s suffered from muscle injuries throughout his career and has missed important matches for both club and country. The sane view is he needs careful management to keep him fit long term. The crazy view is he’s not committed, can’t be bothered and is in thrall to the illuminati lizard people. I’m frankly getting sick of the malcontents who will try to sour just about anything. Im getting sick of these rose tinted spectacles. You're getting sick of fellow supporters backing their own player? That's a bit sad isn't it? |
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Post by dai on Oct 8, 2020 8:01:39 GMT
Im getting sick of these rose tinted spectacles. You're getting sick of fellow supporters backing their own player? That's a bit sad isn't it? Did you back Giggs when he used to 'pull out of games'? I think we should draw the line under this now, it's clear there are people on two sides of the argument here who are not going to agree. Time to move on. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:02:31 GMT
You're getting sick of fellow supporters backing their own player? That's a bit sad isn't it? Did you back Giggs when he used to 'pull out of games'? I was a kid at the time. I had more important things like beyblades to think about. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:04:13 GMT
Also, I want to point out that Ryan Giggs retired from international football and later turned out for Team GB which he rightly got a ton of stick for.
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Post by dai on Oct 8, 2020 8:12:27 GMT
Also, I want to point out that Ryan Giggs retired from international football and later turned out for Team GB which he rightly got a ton of stick for. I agree, but that's not really relevant to this argument. Ramsey also turned out for team GB and would probably do the same as Giggs in his situation. |
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Post by impeachabull on Oct 8, 2020 8:14:18 GMT
In a 20 year career, Giggs missed 32 games for his club through injuries. In a 14 year career, Rambo has missed 119 games for his clubs through injury.
Ramsey will probably equal the amount of caps for Wales that Giggs got in this entire career during this break. The comparisons between the two are completely unfair.
Again, why not just name the breaks when you actually think Ramsey was faking it rather than just doing it by implication?
Edit: The bit about caps isn't quite right, but if Ramsey plays the two Nations League games then he's within 2 caps of Giggs.
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Post by superunknown on Oct 8, 2020 8:18:00 GMT
In a 20 year career, Giggs missed 32 games for his club through injuries. In a 14 year career, Rambo has missed 119 games for his clubs through injury. Ramsey will probably equal the amount of caps for Wales that Giggs got in this entire career during this break. The comparisons between the two are completely unfair. Again, why not just name the breaks when you actually think Ramsey was faking it rather than just doing it by implication?Why give solid factual evidence of him feigning injury when you could use guesswork and conjecture instead! |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:24:49 GMT
Also, I want to point out that Ryan Giggs retired from international football and later turned out for Team GB which he rightly got a ton of stick for. I agree, but that's not really relevant to this argument. Ramsey also turned out for team GB and would probably do the same as Giggs in his situation. How on earth do you come to that conclusion? And how isn't it relevant? You brought up Giggs's commitment, well it's there for all to see. He ended his international career with Wales in 2007 and turned up for Team GB 5 years later, proving those who questioned his commitment right. Aaron Ramsey has missed games through injury and you've thought it was a good idea to compare the 2. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:29:57 GMT
Those questioning Ramsey's commitment are the sort of people who'd question their partner's commitment to them if they went on a night out with the girls.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 8, 2020 8:30:08 GMT
He’s suffered from muscle injuries throughout his career and has missed important matches for both club and country. The sane view is he needs careful management to keep him fit long term. The crazy view is he’s not committed, can’t be bothered and is in thrall to the illuminati lizard people. I’m frankly getting sick of the malcontents who will try to sour just about anything. careful management that rules him out of almost every qualifier for us the last few years? Im getting sick of these rose tinted spectacles. He's hardly played for us the last few years! Ronaldo played last night why did ramsey decide himself to take the cautious approach and not travel. Ronaldo played because he broke the quarantine rules to play in a meaningless friendly |
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Post by dai on Oct 8, 2020 8:32:25 GMT
I agree, but that's not really relevant to this argument. Ramsey also turned out for team GB and would probably do the same as Giggs in his situation. How on earth do you come to that conclusion? And how isn't it relevant? You brought up Giggs's commitment, well it's there for all to see. He ended his international career with Wales in 2007 and turned up for Team GB 5 years later, proving those who questioned his commitment right. Aaron Ramsey has missed games through injury and you've thought it was a good idea to compare the 2. Giggs retired at 33, which has been sort of the average age for Welsh player retirement over the years. The turning out for GB topic isn't really relevant, as I'd expect 95% of our current players to do the same - they don't share this ideology that a Team GB would cause the unification of Wales, England, Scotland and NI. |
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Post by impeachabull on Oct 8, 2020 8:32:38 GMT
careful management that rules him out of almost every qualifier for us the last few years? Im getting sick of these rose tinted spectacles. He's hardly played for us the last few years! Ronaldo played last night why did ramsey decide himself to take the cautious approach and not travel. Ronaldo played because he broke the quarantine rules to play in a meaningless friendly And the flipside of this is Ramsey brings Covid into the camp, our fairly shallow squad is without 4/5 starters for the Nations League games, and people say "how selfish, we didn't even need to play him in that friendly but now we're out of the WC play-offs". |
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Post by dai on Oct 8, 2020 8:32:58 GMT
Those questioning Ramsey's commitment are the sort of people who'd question their partner's commitment to them if they went on a night out with the girls.  |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 8, 2020 8:33:37 GMT
In a 20 year career, Giggs missed 32 games for his club through injuries. In a 14 year career, Rambo has missed 119 games for his clubs through injury. Ramsey will probably equal the amount of caps for Wales that Giggs got in this entire career during this break. The comparisons between the two are completely unfair. Again, why not just name the breaks when you actually think Ramsey was faking it rather than just doing it by implication?Why give solid factual evidence of him feigning injury when you could use guesswork and conjecture instead! No one has evidence's feigning injury, you couldn't say you have evidence giggs was faking injury. he's missed a lot of games recently for wales. that's fact you cannot argue that. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:33:54 GMT
careful management that rules him out of almost every qualifier for us the last few years? Im getting sick of these rose tinted spectacles. He's hardly played for us the last few years! Ronaldo played last night why did ramsey decide himself to take the cautious approach and not travel. Ronaldo played because he broke the quarantine rules to play in a meaningless friendly Exactly, and it's not as if he puts his position at Juve in jeopardy by going either. He knows they will field him no matter what. Ramsey probably wasn't willing to hamper his position with the new boss by breaking his club's quarantine rules to play in a friendly which doesn't matter on the face of things and the FAW agreed with his stance. If anyone thinks he should have then we just disagree on that matter. If it was an important match I have little doubt that he would have turned up. He wasn't the only player who stayed behind... |
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Post by dai on Oct 8, 2020 8:35:44 GMT
Ronaldo played because he broke the quarantine rules to play in a meaningless friendly And the flipside of this is Ramsey brings Covid into the camp, our fairly shallow squad is without 4/5 starters for the Nations League games, and people say "how selfish, we didn't even need to play him in that friendly but now we're out of the WC play-offs". If there was a real risk of him bringing Covid into the camp, he shouldn't be joining up full stop - whether it be this past Monday, today or the weekend. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:36:45 GMT
How on earth do you come to that conclusion? And how isn't it relevant? You brought up Giggs's commitment, well it's there for all to see. He ended his international career with Wales in 2007 and turned up for Team GB 5 years later, proving those who questioned his commitment right. Aaron Ramsey has missed games through injury and you've thought it was a good idea to compare the 2. Giggs retired at 33, which has been sort of the average age for Welsh player retirement over the years. The turning out for GB topic isn't really relevant, as I'd expect 95% of our current players to do the same - they don't share this ideology that a Team GB would cause the unification of Wales, England, Scotland and NI. I don't think they would, and it's not about what Team GB stands for. It's the fact that he announced his retirement from international football, only to feature in international fixtures years later for a different country. I can forgive Ramsey, Taylor, Bellamy and Allen for turning out for Team GB. Even if I'm not happy about it, it was their choice, and none of those did so after announcing international retirement. |
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Post by impeachabull on Oct 8, 2020 8:37:02 GMT
Why give solid factual evidence of him feigning injury when you could use guesswork and conjecture instead! No one has evidence's feigning injury, you couldn't say you have evidence giggs was faking injury. he's missed a lot of games recently for wales. that's fact you cannot argue that. You don't need proof he feigned injury, you just need to name some international breaks which you think are suspect. So far the evidence against him includes when his wife was in labour, when we sent him home because we didn't intent him to play against Panama, and several instances where he was clearly injured. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 8, 2020 8:38:19 GMT
And the flipside of this is Ramsey brings Covid into the camp, our fairly shallow squad is without 4/5 starters for the Nations League games, and people say "how selfish, we didn't even need to play him in that friendly but now we're out of the WC play-offs". If there was a real risk of him bringing Covid into the camp, he shouldn't be joining up full stop - whether it be this past Monday, today or the weekend. All the players had to be tested before leaving the quarantine. You can pass a coronavirus test and still have it, but Ramsey would have had them daily while in quarantine. If he'd have joined earlier, there was more chance of him bringing it into the camp. |
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Post by njdragon on Oct 8, 2020 8:40:09 GMT
careful management that rules him out of almost every qualifier for us the last few years? Im getting sick of these rose tinted spectacles. He's hardly played for us the last few years! Ronaldo played last night why did ramsey decide himself to take the cautious approach and not travel. Ronaldo played because he broke the quarantine rules to play in a meaningless friendly Seven players have left the Juventus retreat on Monday morning and could face fines for leaving the current team isolation. After having found two cases for coronavirus last Saturday, Juventus have lived in a bubble within their camp at Continassa. Several reports in Italy revealed Gianluigi Buffon and Merih Demiral had decided to leave the camp and return to their respective homes on Monday morning, whilst five others joined their national teams. Rodrigo Bentancur, Juan Cuadrado, Danilo, Paulo Dybala and Cristiano Ronaldo have reportedly left to play for their respective national teams. The reports claim the Old Lady couldn’t stop them from leaving and when the players left the Juventus bubble it became an individual responsibility. The Bianconeri promptly informed the ASL members who confirmed they received the report directly from the club and they will notify the Prosecutor’s Office with the names of the players who have left the isolation. Corriere di Torino reveals Roberto Testi, the director of the Prevention Department of the ASL Citta di Torino, doesn’t believe anything controversial will happen. “I don’t think anything serious has been committed and if someone were to take a private flight, maybe they’ll pay a fine and I don’t think any players will have problems doing it,” he said |
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