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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2021 7:23:57 GMT
Well it doesn’t take a genius to work out he played the majority of games does it. 61 games in 2 seasons is a good return for someone who is injured most international matches. Not really. Not sure how many games in the Italian league but it’s surely 30+ per season, add in two seasons of cup games and champions league and I’d say that 61 games in total means he’s missed a fair few Juve games too. Yes probably congested fixture list - a quick look is 41 (I think so far) he’s played 26 - I’m guessing some injured others he didn’t make the team. |
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 26, 2021 8:11:45 GMT
Not really. Not sure how many games in the Italian league but it’s surely 30+ per season, add in two seasons of cup games and champions league and I’d say that 61 games in total means he’s missed a fair few Juve games too. Yes probably congested fixture list - a quick look is 41 (I think so far) he’s played 26 - I’m guessing some injured others he didn’t make the team. So that means he’s missed 15 games for Juve already this season.if we assume it was the same last season then he’s missed approx. 30 games for Juve in two years. I can’t speak Italian but I suspect Juve forums will shortly be full of angry fans saying he’s faking it once this info reaches them. |
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Post by impeachabull on Mar 26, 2021 8:23:38 GMT
Since we all last debated this in depth, and over several pages, no new information has come to light. I'm not sure anyone on either side thinks he's faked an injury to avoid these games. He's quite clearly been injured for Juve for the past two weeks.
So we're just rehashing an argument with the exact same points that were made in October last year with two sides firmly entrenched and no reason for anyone to change their mind.
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 26, 2021 9:13:31 GMT
Since we all last debated this in depth, and over several pages, no new information has come to light. I'm not sure anyone on either side thinks he's faked an injury to avoid these games. He's quite clearly been injured for Juve for the past two weeks. So we're just rehashing an argument with the exact same points that were made in October last year with two sides firmly entrenched and no reason for anyone to change their mind. Spot on, sir. I do my best not to bite but when I see the sometimes preposterous claims about one of our best ever players I can’t help myself. I find it easy to ignore it when I see it on Twitter and Facebook but for some reason I can’t help but reply when someone says the same nonsense on here, I don’t know why. I’m going to (try to)take your advice and stay out of this thread until, as you say, anything happens to suggest that he isn’t being genuine when he he unable to join us. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2021 9:28:26 GMT
Since we all last debated this in depth, and over several pages, no new information has come to light. I'm not sure anyone on either side thinks he's faked an injury to avoid these games. He's quite clearly been injured for Juve for the past two weeks. So we're just rehashing an argument with the exact same points that were made in October last year with two sides firmly entrenched and no reason for anyone to change their mind. Spot on, sir. I do my best not to bite but when I see the sometimes preposterous claims about one of our best ever players I can’t help myself. I find it easy to ignore it when I see it on Twitter and Facebook but for some reason I can’t help but reply when someone says the same nonsense on here, I don’t know why. I’m going to (try to)take your advice and stay out of this thread until, as you say, anything happens to suggest that he isn’t being genuine when he he unable to join us. seriously?? 'preposterous claims about one of our best ever players' Im sure the same was said about giggs. He's not infallible. This is an open forum and all points are up for debate. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 26, 2021 9:29:11 GMT
Talk of ‘dodging 10-15 games’ and other conspiracy theories implies some do think Ramsey is faking his injuries unfortunately. He’s not committed to Wales see.
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 26, 2021 9:35:08 GMT
Spot on, sir. I do my best not to bite but when I see the sometimes preposterous claims about one of our best ever players I can’t help myself. I find it easy to ignore it when I see it on Twitter and Facebook but for some reason I can’t help but reply when someone says the same nonsense on here, I don’t know why. I’m going to (try to)take your advice and stay out of this thread until, as you say, anything happens to suggest that he isn’t being genuine when he he unable to join us. seriously?? 'preposterous claims about one of our best ever players' Im sure the same was said about giggs. He's not infallible. This is an open forum and all points are up for debate. I didn’t say that it wasn’t up for debate or that this isn’t an open forum, I said it’s up to me whether I respond or not and I’ve decided not to respond to this subject unless we have some new information or some evidence. And yes, I realise the irony in me replying to this but technically I’m not commenting on Ramsey, haha. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2021 9:37:58 GMT
Talk of ‘dodging 10-15 games’ and other conspiracy theories implies some do think Ramsey is faking his injuries unfortunately. He’s not committed to Wales see. I don't think he's faking injury but i think he is using the full international break to get over minor injuries, and missing a lot of wales games in the process. its pointless to keep going over this. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 26, 2021 9:39:07 GMT
Talk of ‘dodging 10-15 games’ and other conspiracy theories implies some do think Ramsey is faking his injuries unfortunately. He’s not committed to Wales see. I don't think he's faking injury but i think he is using the full international break to get over minor injuries, and missing a lot of wales games in the process. its pointless to keep going over this. Haha don't keep bringing it up then |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 26, 2021 10:02:04 GMT
There's no such thing as a 2019 season. It's 2019-20. International appearances you quoted were year by year not a season by season, which if you now think about it I'm sure you will realise cannot be compared directly. So I corrected you on that one to ensure you were also quoting yearly club appearances I'm going to teach you something. When you don't have evidence either way for something, the default position is neutrality. This is how epistemology works. For example, if you were asked "what colour is the sky?" but you had no evidence of what the answer was, the correct response is "I don't know". The incorrect response is "it's pink because I think so, and until anyone provides proof otherwise I'm going to believe it's pink". This is called bias. Unless you have proof Ramsey is intentionally missing games all you have is a wild guess with nothing backing it up Here's a convincing reason why he's missing games for us - it's a coincidence. I'm sorry that's not as interesting as there being a grand conspiracy, but it's the neutral position when you have no other information either way However, we actually do have evidence against your position. If you are correct, then you are also stating that Juventus are complicit in fabricating these injuries, and are so committed to this that they are willing to let Ramsey miss multiple games for them. Ramsey missed the two games leading into this international break - if you are correct you are saying Juventus prevented Ramsey from playing in these games for no reason other than to block him playing 2 international fixtures I've never heard such nonsense in my life So: From sept 2019-March 2021 Ramsey has played 61 games for juventus From January 2019-March 2021 Ramsey had played 3 international matches Thanks for strengthening my argument there. You have no evidence you have word of mouth. The press via a source from juventus. No evidence from wales and as far as I know didn’t turn up to be assessed. Also recent pull outs have been injuries not shown up on scans and ‘personal reasons’ And lastly I can hold an opinion on something, this isn’t science. It’s opinion. Aaaargh talking to you is so infuriating!! Juventus play ten times the number of games Wales do across a season!! It's completely irrelevant the raw number of games played, stop quoting that it does nothing to help your argument - all that matters is the ratio It's like you calling me not committed as a Wales fan because I have attended 0 Wales games over the last year. That number doesn't look great, but does nothing to reveal the truth of the matter - because the context of the stat on it's own means nothing. With context we know covid has stopped up all going to games so that's the reason for the low number. What you are doing here is equivalent to continually quoting the 0 number Now across a season a top club usually plays 60 games, times by 2 that's 120 games, so Ramsey is playing roughly 50% of the time for his club across a season. In a normal year Wales play roughly 10 times, however Wales do not play every week, so if you are injured at the wrong time you will miss a big percentage of games. If you miss 2 windows by unfortunate injury that's 50% of the games missed across a year right away So not only is Ramsey actually missing 50% of games for his club - the fact he has only played 20% of games for us over the past two years can easily be explained by the nature of the clustering of international fixtures. I can't believe I actually have to explain this but there we are. That's a much more sensible alternative to your conspiracy idea which has so many flaws You COMPLETELY missed my point which was that you shouldn't make claims with certainty, unless you have evidence. You've come in here claiming Ramsey missing games is down to a lack of committment. You therefore have the burden of proof & yet you come up with nothing when quizzed by people in here, just conjecture. We are then calling you out for having nothing to back yourself up - ergo we do not need to provide evidence of anything we are simply criticising your opinion that doesn't hold up That's how debate works, you have to back up your claims. Do you actually have anything other than quoting the raw numbers of games which does nothing to prove your point? |
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Post by insertname on Mar 26, 2021 10:14:30 GMT
“ West Ham and Crystal Palace are both interested in signing 30-year-old midfielder Aaron Ramsey, with Juventus keen to offload the Wales international along with French midfielder Adrien Rabiot, 25, who is is being linked with Manchester City and Barcelona. (Calcio Mercator - in Italian)”
Does anyone know what David Moyes thoughts are on international football?
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Post by 1gwaunview on Mar 26, 2021 11:31:10 GMT
Beginning to have reservations of my 'giving Ramsey the benefit of the doubt' thoughts regards his recent no-shows for us.
Granted fitness/injury problems have dogged his career, but I bet he'll be in the next Juventus squad.
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Post by iot on Mar 26, 2021 12:09:26 GMT
This is getting ridiculous. Rambo's missed the last two Juve games, so there's no justification at all to doubt the fact he was unfit for these games, which is exactly the same as in all previous instances where he's missed games. There's been excellent analysis done on this already, breaking it down for each international window - you're just going over old ground. Some people on here are so emotive, they refuse to let very simple, basic facts to alter their misconceptions which are entirely based on their understandable frustrations. Allez - I wouldn't spend more energy on this - it will inevitably come up again a couple of times each year until Rambo retires, such are his injury issues. My advice would be to just re-post the analysis you did from last time and challenge anyone to come up with anything that would dispute that. If they do dispute, it just shows that they choose to believe Rambo and his club conspire to miss club games before international breaks so that he can excuse himself from joining up, which is patently absurd. There's nothing more to add.
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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2021 12:20:02 GMT
This is getting ridiculous. Rambo's missed the last two Juve games, so there's no justification at all to doubt the fact he was unfit for these games, which is exactly the same as in all previous instances where he's missed games. There's been excellent analysis done on this already, breaking it down for each international window - you're just going over old ground. Some people on here are so emotive, they refuse to let very simple, basic facts to alter their misconceptions which are entirely based on their understandable frustrations. Allez - I wouldn't spend more energy on this - it will inevitably come up again a couple of times each year until Rambo retires, such are his injury issues. My advice would be to just re-post the analysis you did from last time and challenge anyone to come up with anything that would dispute that. If they do dispute, it just shows that they choose to believe Rambo and his club conspire to miss club games before international breaks so that he can excuse himself from joining up, which is patently absurd. There's nothing more to add. no one is suggesting he's conspiring to miss club games before - like i said... he has been injured but they are minor injuries.. He is using the international period as a rest period to get over niggles - look at recent reasons for pulling out they are mostly muscular injuries. Whereas we are seeing other players play through, such is their commitment. Ramseys clear commitment is with getting games in the Juve side and not with wales. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 26, 2021 12:29:56 GMT
Beginning to have reservations of my 'giving Ramsey the benefit of the doubt' thoughts regards his recent no-shows for us. Granted fitness/injury problems have dogged his career, but I bet he'll be in the next Juventus squad. So are you suggesting, like others, that he is faking or overplaying his injury to avoid playing for Cymru? If not then what do you suppose his reasons are for not joining the squad? |
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Post by manulike on Mar 26, 2021 12:31:43 GMT
When I saw that there were THREE new pages to Aaron's thread, I was sure he signed for Cardiff City or has just fathered another set of twins ...
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Post by iot on Mar 26, 2021 12:33:24 GMT
This is getting ridiculous. Rambo's missed the last two Juve games, so there's no justification at all to doubt the fact he was unfit for these games, which is exactly the same as in all previous instances where he's missed games. There's been excellent analysis done on this already, breaking it down for each international window - you're just going over old ground. Some people on here are so emotive, they refuse to let very simple, basic facts to alter their misconceptions which are entirely based on their understandable frustrations. Allez - I wouldn't spend more energy on this - it will inevitably come up again a couple of times each year until Rambo retires, such are his injury issues. My advice would be to just re-post the analysis you did from last time and challenge anyone to come up with anything that would dispute that. If they do dispute, it just shows that they choose to believe Rambo and his club conspire to miss club games before international breaks so that he can excuse himself from joining up, which is patently absurd. There's nothing more to add. no one is suggesting he's conspiring to miss club games before - like i said... he has been injured but they are minor injuries.. He is using the international period as a rest period to get over niggles - look at recent reasons for pulling out they are mostly muscular injuries. Whereas we are seeing other players play through, such is their commitment. Ramseys clear commitment is with getting games in the Juve side and not with wales. They are significant enough for him to miss Juve games too, on every occasion, which is why your amateur assessment doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The day he starts consistently pulling out of Wales squads despite playing either side of the window in Juve games, is the day that criticism can be fairly applied and parallels can be drawn with giggs. But that hasn't been the case. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2021 13:00:57 GMT
no one is suggesting he's conspiring to miss club games before - like i said... he has been injured but they are minor injuries.. He is using the international period as a rest period to get over niggles - look at recent reasons for pulling out they are mostly muscular injuries. Whereas we are seeing other players play through, such is their commitment. Ramseys clear commitment is with getting games in the Juve side and not with wales. They are significant enough for him to miss Juve games too, on every occasion, which is why your amateur assessment doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The day he starts consistently pulling out of Wales squads despite playing either side of the window in Juve games, is the day that criticism can be fairly applied and parallels can be drawn with giggs. But that hasn't been the case. Not on every occasion there are instances with him playing either side. He is consistently pulling out of wales squads that's an issue. |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Mar 26, 2021 13:10:40 GMT
Beginning to have reservations of my 'giving Ramsey the benefit of the doubt' thoughts regards his recent no-shows for us. Granted fitness/injury problems have dogged his career, but I bet he'll be in the next Juventus squad. So are you suggesting, like others, that he is faking or overplaying his injury to avoid playing for Cymru? If not then what do you suppose his reasons are for not joining the squad? No idea. You'd have to ask him.
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 26, 2021 13:11:52 GMT
So are you suggesting, like others, that he is faking or overplaying his injury to avoid playing for Cymru? If not then what do you suppose his reasons are for not joining the squad? No idea. You'd have to ask him.
Haha what a response. Maybe he is injured, how about that for a reason? |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Mar 26, 2021 13:22:51 GMT
No idea. You'd have to ask him.
Haha what a response. Maybe he is injured, how about that for a reason? Maybe he is genuinely injured, and the Juventus medical staff are poor at treating his problems similar to Arsenal, or as you say faking it. The point is, we need him on the pitch playing for us. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 26, 2021 13:27:00 GMT
Haha what a response. Maybe he is injured, how about that for a reason? Maybe he is genuinely injured, and the Juventus medical staff are poor at supporting him similar to Arsenal, or as you say faking it. The point is, we need him on the pitch playing for us. Ive never said he's faking it, I wouldn't demean one of our best players by even implying that. I was asking if you think he's faking it like some others on this thread have suggested, looks like you have your suspicions from your response. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Mar 26, 2021 16:02:11 GMT
When I saw that there were THREE new pages to Aaron's thread, I was sure he signed for Cardiff City or has just fathered another set of twins ... He is fit enough to sire more children, but is not fit enough to play for Wales. Shows a lack of commitment to Wales IMHO. |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Mar 26, 2021 16:04:17 GMT
Maybe he is genuinely injured, and the Juventus medical staff are poor at supporting him similar to Arsenal, or as you say faking it. The point is, we need him on the pitch playing for us. Ive never said he's faking it, I wouldn't demean one of our best players by even implying that. I was asking if you think he's faking it like some others on this thread have suggested, looks like you have your suspicions from your response. You're right, I'm beginning to get suspicious (as are others), but I don't know the full facts of this situation. Does anyone? He's one of our best players and I'd like to see him make himself available again.
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Post by impeachabull on Mar 26, 2021 17:20:19 GMT
When I saw that there were THREE new pages to Aaron's thread, I was sure he signed for Cardiff City or has just fathered another set of twins ... He is fit enough to sire more children, but is not fit enough to play for Wales. Shows a lack of commitment to Wales IMHO. My cousin's friend's Italian wife saw him walking to Coop. Hey Aaron, if you've got time to eat parmesan reggiano, you've got time to represent Wales. |
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Mar 26, 2021 20:27:37 GMT
Rambo could perhaps himself dispel doubts by posting something on his Twitter account along the lines that he's gutted to be injured and missing these 3 matches, and wishes all the best to his (Wales) team-mates?
(For all we know, he may have sent such a message privately to the camp anyway).
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Post by njdragon on Mar 30, 2021 19:47:49 GMT
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Post by dai on Mar 30, 2021 19:51:29 GMT
Surprise surprise......
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Post by njdragon on Mar 30, 2021 19:55:24 GMT
I think most of us are willing to overlook it when we are winning but patience will wear thin if we start losing. To have him available for us tonight would have been a huge boost. |
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Mar 31, 2021 5:18:59 GMT
He's missed two Juventus games prior to the break, one of which they lost which looks to have completely ended their season and their managers reign. I really don't get the conspiracy, but if someone would like to make some sense of it then please feel free.
Him being fit enough to complete a training session is hardly him being fit enough to play an international game on the same day.
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