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Post by evans1282 on Mar 31, 2021 7:20:25 GMT
He's missed two Juventus games prior to the break, one of which they lost which looks to have completely ended their season and their managers reign. I really don't get the conspiracy, but if someone would like to make some sense of it then please feel free. Him being fit enough to complete a training session is hardly him being fit enough to play an international game on the same day. Waste of time to argue facts with the conspiracy club boys,trying to ignore them now,was going to leave the forum the amount of shite some post,but decided to hold my nose and keep reading the decent posts. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 31, 2021 8:09:48 GMT
He's missed two Juventus games prior to the break, one of which they lost which looks to have completely ended their season and their managers reign. I really don't get the conspiracy, but if someone would like to make some sense of it then please feel free. Him being fit enough to complete a training session is hardly him being fit enough to play an international game on the same day. Waste of time to argue facts with the conspiracy club boys,trying to ignore them now,was going to leave the forum the amount of shite some post,but decided to hold my nose and keep reading the decent posts. If ramsey had turned out playing for the czech's last night you'd still be making excuses for him! |
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Post by dai on Mar 31, 2021 8:19:39 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think he's really faking injuries or missing games on purpose, it's just very frustrating and tiresome now. It must be a nightmare for the coaching team to plan for games, as you cannot plan without a guaranteed starter, but then is there any point given his record?
However if this was anyone else apart from Bale and Ramsey, they'd be getting slaughtered on here. One rule for one and one for another etc.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 31, 2021 8:52:03 GMT
It's funny, I only ever see you coming on here to post about Ramsey. Did you have any thoughts on last night's game? |
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Post by evans1282 on Mar 31, 2021 9:02:41 GMT
Waste of time to argue facts with the conspiracy club boys,trying to ignore them now,was going to leave the forum the amount of shite some post,but decided to hold my nose and keep reading the decent posts. If ramsey had turned out playing for the czech's last night you'd still be making excuses for him! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzd |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 31, 2021 9:19:38 GMT
It's funny, I only ever see you coming on here to post about Ramsey. Did you have any thoughts on last night's game? Its also funny you only joined this board after the euros success.. if you want to be picky. Anyway you're more than welcome to go through my other 1500 posts and see what my thoughts are on the last 10 years of welsh football and contributing to this board. I have an opinion on ramsey, its not just my opinion. This is an open board people will have differing views to you, its not all a conspiracy if they do. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2021 9:32:00 GMT
He's missed two Juventus games prior to the break, one of which they lost which looks to have completely ended their season and their managers reign. I really don't get the conspiracy, but if someone would like to make some sense of it then please feel free. Him being fit enough to complete a training session is hardly him being fit enough to play an international game on the same day. Fit enough to maybe come on as sub though if he really wanted to. I’d suspect Bale would have been on the bench last night if it was him. No doubt he was injured, given the missed Juventus games but I suspect there is a psychological component where the prestige of the fixture is weighed against the player and his club’s own assessment of the situation, ie he could maybe play a bit part but it’s not worth it so the club and player conclude that for the money they are paying him he should stay at home and Ramsey acquiesces. For me the most interesting data point would be tournaments missed, but we never bloody qualify for any 😂 with the regularity of qualifiers missed you would think he would have missed a finals appearance had we qualified but as it is the only finals we have made it to in his career he was at peak fitness and ironically the only game missed was through suspension. Pure conjecture but I can’t help but feel that as he is back in full training if we were playing in a World Cup last night I’d say there was a good chance he’d be pushing to play some part and I’ll bet any money anyone likes that he’ll avoid injury and be fit for the Euros. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 31, 2021 10:28:11 GMT
It's funny, I only ever see you coming on here to post about Ramsey. Did you have any thoughts on last night's game? Its also funny you only joined this board after the euros success.. if you want to be picky. Anyway you're more than welcome to go through my other 1500 posts and see what my thoughts are on the last 10 years of welsh football and contributing to this board. I have an opinion on ramsey, its not just my opinion. This is an open board people will have differing views to you, its not all a conspiracy if they do. Yep only ever heard about a Welsh football forum during the 2018 campaign, had I known about I before then trust me I would have signed right up way before the Euros success I don't think you're engaging in conspiracy because I disagree. It's because the ideas you have don't hold up. In order to believe Ramsey intentionally misses games for us you also have to simultaneously believe Juventus conspire for Ramsey to miss games for them. Something I actually find laughable. Why would Juventus force Ramsey to miss games for them for no reason? It just comes across as conspiracy |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2021 10:35:26 GMT
Its also funny you only joined this board after the euros success.. if you want to be picky. Anyway you're more than welcome to go through my other 1500 posts and see what my thoughts are on the last 10 years of welsh football and contributing to this board. I have an opinion on ramsey, its not just my opinion. This is an open board people will have differing views to you, its not all a conspiracy if they do. Yep only ever heard about a Welsh football forum during the 2018 campaign, had I known about I before then trust me I would have signed right up way before the Euros success I don't think you're engaging in conspiracy because I disagree. It's because the ideas you have don't hold up. In order to believe Ramsey intentionally misses games for us you also have to simultaneously believe Juventus conspire for Ramsey to miss games for them. Something I actually find laughable. Why would Juventus force Ramsey to miss games for them for no reason? It just comes across as conspiracy Juventus are paying an injury prone player an absolutely insane amount of money, I could find a motive there if the Juve games were dead rubbers and they were maybe taking on a big, influential FA. Juventus will absolutely 100% not want to be paying those wages after an injury in international duty. But trying to muck Wales about by setting up a scenario involving missing games prior, games that matter? Very hard to buy into. But that being said with Ramsey back in full training would anyone doubt Juve had a word just to get any fanciful ideas of a last minute flight to Cardiff on a Tuesday night out of his head? Considering the money they are paying him I think that is very very likely to have happened. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 31, 2021 10:38:06 GMT
He's missed two Juventus games prior to the break, one of which they lost which looks to have completely ended their season and their managers reign. I really don't get the conspiracy, but if someone would like to make some sense of it then please feel free. Him being fit enough to complete a training session is hardly him being fit enough to play an international game on the same day. Fit enough to maybe come on as sub though if he really wanted to. I’d suspect Bale would have been on the bench last night if it was him. No doubt he was injured, given the missed Juventus games but I suspect there is a psychological component where the prestige of the fixture is weighed against the player and his club’s own assessment of the situation, ie he could maybe play a bit part but it’s not worth it so the club and player conclude that for the money they are paying him he should stay at home and Ramsey acquiesces. For me the most interesting data point would be tournaments missed, but we never bloody qualify for any 😂 with the regularity of qualifiers missed you would think he would have missed a finals appearance had we qualified but as it is the only finals we have made it to in his career he was at peak fitness and ironically the only game missed was through suspension. Pure conjecture but I can’t help but feel that as he is back in full training if we were playing in a World Cup last night I’d say there was a good chance he’d be pushing to play some part and I’ll bet any money anyone likes that he’ll avoid injury and be fit for the Euros. Mind you there is normally a break leading up to a tournament. And chances are unless teams are in cup finals late in the season, if a player has a niggle he can rest it as there can be less riding on the final few games. If Ramsey has a 2 month injury before the tournament you can see him having time to recover possibly. It just depends |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 31, 2021 10:39:17 GMT
Its also funny you only joined this board after the euros success.. if you want to be picky. Anyway you're more than welcome to go through my other 1500 posts and see what my thoughts are on the last 10 years of welsh football and contributing to this board. I have an opinion on ramsey, its not just my opinion. This is an open board people will have differing views to you, its not all a conspiracy if they do. Yep only ever heard about a Welsh football forum during the 2018 campaign, had I known about I before then trust me I would have signed right up way before the Euros success I don't think you're engaging in conspiracy because I disagree. It's because the ideas you have don't hold up. In order to believe Ramsey intentionally misses games for us you also have to simultaneously believe Juventus conspire for Ramsey to miss games for them. Something I actually find laughable. Why would Juventus force Ramsey to miss games for them for no reason? It just comes across as conspiracy Im not saying they are conspiring to intentionally force ramsey out of internationals. I do think if he has a niggle, he won't turn up for us, whereas others would (is that Ramsey himself or Juventus making that decision) and he hasn't always been like that. That's really it, im questioning that. He could have met up with the squad and at least trained with us, this past week. If there was a chance he could have played 10 mins he should have been there but its my opinion. I don't think we'll every see eye to eye on this but surely both in agreement that we need him and its massively frustrating when he's not with us. |
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Post by evans1282 on Mar 31, 2021 10:44:05 GMT
Yep only ever heard about a Welsh football forum during the 2018 campaign, had I known about I before then trust me I would have signed right up way before the Euros success I don't think you're engaging in conspiracy because I disagree. It's because the ideas you have don't hold up. In order to believe Ramsey intentionally misses games for us you also have to simultaneously believe Juventus conspire for Ramsey to miss games for them. Something I actually find laughable. Why would Juventus force Ramsey to miss games for them for no reason? It just comes across as conspiracy Im not saying they are conspiring to intentionally force ramsey out of internationals. I do think if he has a niggle, he won't turn up for us, whereas others would (is that Ramsey himself or Juventus making that decision) and he hasn't always been like that. That's really it, im questioning that. He could have met up with the squad and at least trained with us, this past week. If there was a chance he could have played 10 mins he should have been there but its my opinion. I don't think we'll every see eye to eye on this but surely both in agreement that we need him and its massively frustrating when he's not with us. Ramsey suffered a near career ending leg break when at Arsenal,since his return from it he's had many niggling injuries,as he gets older he learns to read his body and make decisions based in it.You can either fall into the "he's not bothering anymore" school of thought,or you can think that the nature of footballers is as they age they become more prone to niggling injuries,I'm in the latter camp. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 31, 2021 10:52:07 GMT
Yep only ever heard about a Welsh football forum during the 2018 campaign, had I known about I before then trust me I would have signed right up way before the Euros success I don't think you're engaging in conspiracy because I disagree. It's because the ideas you have don't hold up. In order to believe Ramsey intentionally misses games for us you also have to simultaneously believe Juventus conspire for Ramsey to miss games for them. Something I actually find laughable. Why would Juventus force Ramsey to miss games for them for no reason? It just comes across as conspiracy Im not saying they are conspiring to intentionally force ramsey out of internationals. I do think if he has a niggle, he won't turn up for us, whereas others would (is that Ramsey himself or Juventus making that decision) and he hasn't always been like that. That's really it, im questioning that. He could have met up with the squad and at least trained with us, this past week. If there was a chance he could have played 10 mins he should have been there but its my opinion. I don't think we'll every see eye to eye on this but surely both in agreement that we need him and its massively frustrating when he's not with us. That's a very different argument to the one you initially made which was stating that it's purely down to a lack of commitment - that's what I take issue with. As evans has said below, cautiousness with age is more likely a factor that commitment I agree I'm frustrated by him not playing, we do need him. But I bet Ramsey is more frustrated than both of us & I don't think questioning his desire would help him, in fact I think if he saw this it would make him feel worse to think people were questioning his desire to play for his country |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 31, 2021 10:54:57 GMT
Im not saying they are conspiring to intentionally force ramsey out of internationals. I do think if he has a niggle, he won't turn up for us, whereas others would (is that Ramsey himself or Juventus making that decision) and he hasn't always been like that. That's really it, im questioning that. He could have met up with the squad and at least trained with us, this past week. If there was a chance he could have played 10 mins he should have been there but its my opinion. I don't think we'll every see eye to eye on this but surely both in agreement that we need him and its massively frustrating when he's not with us. Ramsey suffered a near career ending leg break when at Arsenal,since his return from it he's had many niggling injuries,as he gets older he learns to read his body and make decisions based in it.You can either fall into the "he's not bothering anymore" school of thought,or you can think that the nature of footballers is as they age they become more prone to niggling injuries,I'm in the latter camp. yeh you could well be right there, he's reading his body and making these decision to prolong his career and play more for his club. Not so much 'not bothering' but using these breaks to rest any niggles. Very much giggs, but we are far more forgiving now. Its just really frustrating not to have him with wales, especially as we have to keep picking him- i can't imagine a time where we would not want to pick ramsey. |
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Post by evans1282 on Mar 31, 2021 11:48:50 GMT
Ramsey suffered a near career ending leg break when at Arsenal,since his return from it he's had many niggling injuries,as he gets older he learns to read his body and make decisions based in it.You can either fall into the "he's not bothering anymore" school of thought,or you can think that the nature of footballers is as they age they become more prone to niggling injuries,I'm in the latter camp. yeh you could well be right there, he's reading his body and making these decision to prolong his career and play more for his club. Not so much 'not bothering' but using these breaks to rest any niggles. Very much giggs, but we are far more forgiving now. Its just really frustrating not to have him with wales, especially as we have to keep picking him- i can't imagine a time where we would not want to pick ramsey. I also think having World cup qualifiers before the Euros was always going to make players have difficulty choices.I mean imagine a scenario where he played in both games,played full on and picked up a knock that ruled him out of the euros.I appreciate it's if's buts and maybes but a fit Ramsey in the euros is the priority. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2021 12:00:29 GMT
Fit enough to maybe come on as sub though if he really wanted to. I’d suspect Bale would have been on the bench last night if it was him. No doubt he was injured, given the missed Juventus games but I suspect there is a psychological component where the prestige of the fixture is weighed against the player and his club’s own assessment of the situation, ie he could maybe play a bit part but it’s not worth it so the club and player conclude that for the money they are paying him he should stay at home and Ramsey acquiesces. For me the most interesting data point would be tournaments missed, but we never bloody qualify for any 😂 with the regularity of qualifiers missed you would think he would have missed a finals appearance had we qualified but as it is the only finals we have made it to in his career he was at peak fitness and ironically the only game missed was through suspension. Pure conjecture but I can’t help but feel that as he is back in full training if we were playing in a World Cup last night I’d say there was a good chance he’d be pushing to play some part and I’ll bet any money anyone likes that he’ll avoid injury and be fit for the Euros. Mind you there is normally a break leading up to a tournament. And chances are unless teams are in cup finals late in the season, if a player has a niggle he can rest it as there can be less riding on the final few games. If Ramsey has a 2 month injury before the tournament you can see him having time to recover possibly. It just depends Let’s be fair, Juve just have dead rubbers now til the summer so he has a good excuse not to get too stuck in. And it’s a fair point that his chances of being fit for a tournament are greater because of the different conditions, eg lead in time between season end and first tournament game. Maybe the 2022 World Cup might challenge that should we qualify because there can’t be the usual weeks of “decompression” because the tournament starts during the regular season and has to be completed by December 18 (ugh!) so I’d expect warm up games to be shoe horned in straight off the back of the last league game before the elite leagues shut down. (what an awful fucking nonsense this wc is) |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2021 12:08:57 GMT
Im not saying they are conspiring to intentionally force ramsey out of internationals. I do think if he has a niggle, he won't turn up for us, whereas others would (is that Ramsey himself or Juventus making that decision) and he hasn't always been like that. That's really it, im questioning that. He could have met up with the squad and at least trained with us, this past week. If there was a chance he could have played 10 mins he should have been there but its my opinion. I don't think we'll every see eye to eye on this but surely both in agreement that we need him and its massively frustrating when he's not with us. Ramsey suffered a near career ending leg break when at Arsenal,since his return from it he's had many niggling injuries,as he gets older he learns to read his body and make decisions based in it.You can either fall into the "he's not bothering anymore" school of thought,or you can think that the nature of footballers is as they age they become more prone to niggling injuries,I'm in the latter camp. Absolutely, and Bale knows that more than most but he busts a gut to turn up for Wales. As I said previously and as you allude to, there is a psychological element there which produces a cost benefit decision and I think in Ramsey’s case he’ll give it a miss whereas Bale won’t. It undoubtedly makes it easier for Ramsey that he knows his place in the team is secure come what may, so in that circumstance why push yourself to turn up to be a sub for one game of a three game camp when you know your place at Euro 2020 is secure? You know you’ll play if you’re fit. If we had de Bruyne, let’s say, I wonder if Ramsey would have turned up last night with an eye on the Euros and proving something? So anyway, ultimately yes it’s his career and his decision, I can just see fan’s patience being tested a bit when Ramsey pushes himself to be fit for a glory game like the last game of a qualifiers or a tournament and others who have done the hard yards the rest of the time have to miss out. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2021 12:14:48 GMT
yeh you could well be right there, he's reading his body and making these decision to prolong his career and play more for his club. Not so much 'not bothering' but using these breaks to rest any niggles. Very much giggs, but we are far more forgiving now. Its just really frustrating not to have him with wales, especially as we have to keep picking him- i can't imagine a time where we would not want to pick ramsey. I also think having World cup qualifiers before the Euros was always going to make players have difficulty choices.I mean imagine a scenario where he played in both games,played full on and picked up a knock that ruled him out of the euros.I appreciate it's if's buts and maybes but a fit Ramsey in the euros is the priority. I can appreciate the train of thought, but no player should be excused from the hard yards in getting to a finals (imo), even Bale. It’s like HRK coming out of retirement and seeing players of the stature of Ibrahimovic coming out of retirement before a finals. You might be an important player for your team but being a Johnny come lately and turning up for the “big un’s” shouldn’t really be tolerated if only because it’s unfair on the players who actually got the team there. I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s easy to look at the finals in isolation and forget that the road to getting there wasn’t easy and required a shift from other players who also risked injury to get us there going away from their families to places like Azerbaijan where they could get a career ending injury. It’s a team game and everyone should play their part. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 31, 2021 12:29:02 GMT
I also think having World cup qualifiers before the Euros was always going to make players have difficulty choices.I mean imagine a scenario where he played in both games,played full on and picked up a knock that ruled him out of the euros.I appreciate it's if's buts and maybes but a fit Ramsey in the euros is the priority. I can appreciate the train of thought, but no player should be excused from the hard yards in getting to a finals (imo), even Bale. It’s like HRK coming out of retirement and seeing players of the stature of Ibrahimovic coming out of retirement before a finals. You might be an important player for your team but being a Johnny come lately and turning up for the “big un’s” shouldn’t really be tolerated if only because it’s unfair on the players who actually got the team there. I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s easy to look at the finals in isolation and forget that the road to getting there wasn’t easy and required a shift from other players who also risked injury to get us there going away from their families to places like Azerbaijan where they could get a career ending injury. It’s a team game and everyone should play their part. Yes Ramsey played one game in the campaign, and made a bit impact but it was the rest of the squad that got us to these euros. I think most fans would take Ramsey managing his injuries and just being available for big qualifiers. Maybe that's a route to go down. I don't think we can turn around and say to him just turn up for the tournaments  but he certainly could sit out any friendlies. My initial concern when Ramsey started to drop out of game was, is this a problem with giggs or the way he coaches. He's hardly played under giggs? |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2021 13:00:34 GMT
I can appreciate the train of thought, but no player should be excused from the hard yards in getting to a finals (imo), even Bale. It’s like HRK coming out of retirement and seeing players of the stature of Ibrahimovic coming out of retirement before a finals. You might be an important player for your team but being a Johnny come lately and turning up for the “big un’s” shouldn’t really be tolerated if only because it’s unfair on the players who actually got the team there. I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s easy to look at the finals in isolation and forget that the road to getting there wasn’t easy and required a shift from other players who also risked injury to get us there going away from their families to places like Azerbaijan where they could get a career ending injury. It’s a team game and everyone should play their part. Yes Ramsey played one game in the campaign, and made a bit impact but it was the rest of the squad that got us to these euros. I think most fans would take Ramsey managing his injuries and just being available for big qualifiers. Maybe that's a route to go down. I don't think we can turn around and say to him just turn up for the tournaments but he certainly could sit out any friendlies. My initial concern when Ramsey started to drop out of game was, is this a problem with giggs or the way he coaches. He's hardly played under giggs? I suppose it’s a case of age + injury record, it probably accelerates the decline in general fitness. I really think playing for a big club on a huge wage is not going to help either. He will be expected to put his injuries before international games, hence why you might see him playing games immediately after Wales games. The thing is we’ve done well under Giggs, I can’t imagine any player would want to be missing games simply because of who the manager is. I suspect there is a psychological complacency to go with managing of injuries and pressure from Juventus not to play. To me that all seems far more plausible than any sort of issue with the manager or, even worse, an attitude of “well Giggs missed games so I can too”. |
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Mar 31, 2021 17:21:20 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think he's really faking injuries or missing games on purpose, it's just very frustrating and tiresome now. It must be a nightmare for the coaching team to plan for games, as you cannot plan without a guaranteed starter, but then is there any point given his record? However if this was anyone else apart from Bale and Ramsey, they'd be getting slaughtered on here. One rule for one and one for another etc. Yes, it's obviously frustrating for everyone involved but I just don't understand the logic of criticising a player for being injured. Anyone who's experienced a sporting injury knows how frustrating it is, and it's very hard to be coming back and performing at an elite level regularly. Ramsey's had enough injuries to write off more than one career. Did Jack Collison get any stick for it? |
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Post by manulike on Apr 3, 2021 18:19:04 GMT
Thank God.
Aaron is better again and played the last twenty minutes.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 18, 2021 17:17:47 GMT
Ramsey on the bench for the whole game as Juventus lose to Atalanta and slip down to 4th, knowing that if Napoli win their game in hand they will slip down to 5th out of the Champions League places. Surprised Pirlo hasn't already been sacked - they need Allegri back asap
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Post by manulike on May 23, 2021 18:03:07 GMT
Not in this evenings squad. Has not kicked a ball in four weeks ;-(
"Ramsey isn’t in the squad travelling to Bologna for the final Serie A game of the season, as he has yet another muscular issue."
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Post by cynonvalley on May 23, 2021 18:27:52 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 28, 2021 13:39:53 GMT
Pirlo has been sacked and Juventus have immediately confirmed they are re-appointing Allegri. Should be good news for Rambo
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Post by jbt95 on May 28, 2021 15:28:19 GMT
Ramsey looks like he has lost quite a bit of weight (not that he needed to) in recent photos.
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Post by manulike on May 28, 2021 15:37:11 GMT
Ramsey looks like he has lost quite a bit of weight (not that he needed to) in recent photos. I agree. Must be waking up at all hours with the terrible twins. Surely he'll be desperate for a six week break with the boys ;-))
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Post by erasedcitizen on Jun 10, 2021 13:50:51 GMT
He missed training today!
But it was all planned and he's fit and ready for the Switzerland game.
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Post by njdragon on Jun 10, 2021 13:52:48 GMT
He missed training today!Probably flew home to play a friendly for Juve  But it was all planned and he's fit and ready for the Switzerland game. |
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but he certainly could sit out any friendlies. 
