Ben Woodburn

[walesgolfmadrid]

League 1 was always going to be the move for him, and the right move too. He needs a good, injury free season at this level.

The last thing you want is for him to make a handful of sub appearances in the Championship this season. Blackpool manager Neil Critchley knows him well from working with him in the Liverpool academy, so should hopefully get the best out of him.

[CrackityJones]

Signed on loan but only until January

[gimli]

Oct 16, 2020 15:18:50 GMT CrackityJones said:

Signed on loan but only until January

Ideal. Hopefully he hits the ground running and has a productive couple of months in League One before earning himself a better loan to a Championship club in January.

[manulike]

Can't imagine RG letting him into our bubble next month.
Blackpool is a cesspit of corona ;-(

And surely the Beeb could have found a better pic than this ;-((

[gimli]

Started for Blackpool last night. They went down to 10 men in the second minute so not the ideal situation to make his debut, but after a quick glance at the Blackpool forum it seems he played well and was one of their only attacking threats. Went off at about 70 mins with cramp though so needs to build up his fitness.

[manulike]

Oct 21, 2020 8:42:20 GMT gimli said:

Started for Blackpool last night. They went down to 10 men in the second minute so not the ideal situation to make his debut, but after a quick glance at the Blackpool forum it seems he played well and was one of their only attacking threats. Went off at about 70 mins with cramp though so needs to build up his fitness.

Thanks for the update.

A little surprised about his fitness, as he played 7 or 8 full U23 matches in Sep/Oct.

I imagine the intensity in U23 as well as the demand of playing with 10 men, combined to take their toll.

I do hope it is that and NOT the Blackpool night scene ...

[fiveattheback]

A great chance to learn from Cardiff City legend Gary Madine

[manulike]

Oct 16, 2020 18:42:36 GMT manulike said:

Can't imagine RG letting him into our bubble next month.
Blackpool is a cesspit of corona ;-(

And surely the Beeb could have found a better pic than this ;-((

OH, BENJAMIN!

[dai]

Hope it's not because he's been out on the beers!

[manulike]

Possible that Ben might even be involved tomorrow in the FA Cup match:
“Ben Woodburn will just be coming out of his period of self-isolation, so that’s something we need to discuss over the next 48 hours and see where he’s at in terms of his levels of fitness and his health as well.

“He’s very close though.”

www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/sport/football/blackpool-fc/blackpool-dealt-fresh-injury-blow-midfielder-ruled-out-weeks-rather-days-3027689

[gimli]

His loan's come to an end and he's gone back to Liverpool. I imagine Liverpool would have been willing to extend had Blackpool asked, so doesn't seem like they're that fussed on him. He didn't make much of an impression during his short spell there, making 10 appearances and not scoring.

Have to say, with each underwhelming loan it's looking less and less likely that he'll reach the level we thought he would. Where does he go from here? Back out on loan to another League One team presumably. Or preferably somewhere abroad like the Netherlands or Belgium.

[quetzal]

Jan 18, 2021 14:41:17 GMT gimli said:

His loan's come to an end and he's gone back to Liverpool. I imagine Liverpool would have been willing to extend had Blackpool asked, so doesn't seem like they're that fussed on him. He didn't make much of an impression during his short spell there, making 10 appearances and not scoring.

Have to say, with each underwhelming loan it's looking less and less likely that he'll reach the level we thought he would. Where does he go from here? Back out on loan to another League One team presumably. Or preferably somewhere abroad like the Netherlands or Belgium.

He’ll never play for Wales again IMO. I think Wales have moved on too

[talyfan]

Injuries at Sheff Utd and Oxford really derailed his loan spells there.

No complaints of any attitude issues from all the coaches he's worked if I recall.

Thought he'd have kicked on by now despite the injuries. I think ideally, he could do with either being sold or go on an 18 month loan spell. Similar to the arrangement of Guehi at Swansea, get him settled, familiarised and ultimately he'll be long enough there to be more than an after thought.

What level that is at I'm unsure. Just needs to get as many games as possible under his belt.

[allezlesrouges]

Jan 18, 2021 17:22:33 GMT talyfan said:

Injuries at Sheff Utd and Oxford really derailed his loan spells there.

No complaints of any attitude issues from all the coaches he's worked if I recall.

Thought he'd have kicked on by now despite the injuries. I think ideally, he could do with either being sold or go on an 18 month loan spell. Similar to the arrangement of Guehi at Swansea, get him settled, familiarised and ultimately he'll be long enough there to be more than an after thought.

What level that is at I'm unsure. Just needs to get as many games as possible under his belt.

Agree, think he needs to be sold just to kick start something. I don't think he has a bad attitude or anything, but there's a degree of comfort being at a big club like Liverpool being sent on loan to know you're coming back to that eventually. I think he needs to be put into fight or flight mode, where he has to perform to stay in a professional league. Why not join Newport whether they go up or stay in League Two?

When he burst on the scene, we were in need of young talent to freshen up the squad and he looked like he'd be the best of the bunch. The staggering amount of players that have come through has meant our need for him to be the chosen one has reduced to the point of non-existence. Not only that, but the amount of players that have come through in his position is definitely a blessing. Brennan Johnson is two years his junior and seems to have overtaken him in terms of development

I think it'll be a long road back into international football for him if he's to do it. I would never write off a 21 year old, who knows his next club might be the right one to kick start him. I just feel the longer it goes on that he can't get a successful stint of games under his belt, the more his development is being delayed. And that means I think a return to senior level would still be at least 5 years away at present

[alarch]

Jan 18, 2021 23:24:06 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Jan 18, 2021 17:22:33 GMT talyfan said:

Injuries at Sheff Utd and Oxford really derailed his loan spells there.

No complaints of any attitude issues from all the coaches he's worked if I recall.

Thought he'd have kicked on by now despite the injuries. I think ideally, he could do with either being sold or go on an 18 month loan spell. Similar to the arrangement of Guehi at Swansea, get him settled, familiarised and ultimately he'll be long enough there to be more than an after thought.

What level that is at I'm unsure. Just needs to get as many games as possible under his belt.

Agree, think he needs to be sold just to kick start something. I don't think he has a bad attitude or anything, but there's a degree of comfort being at a big club like Liverpool being sent on loan to know you're coming back to that eventually. I think he needs to be put into fight or flight mode, where he has to perform to stay in a professional league. Why not join Newport whether they go up or stay in League Two?

When he burst on the scene, we were in need of young talent to freshen up the squad and he looked like he'd be the best of the bunch. The staggering amount of players that have come through has meant our need for him to be the chosen one has reduced to the point of non-existence. Not only that, but the amount of players that have come through in his position is definitely a blessing. Brennan Johnson is two years his junior and seems to have overtaken him in terms of development

I think it'll be a long road back into international football for him if he's to do it. I would never write off a 21 year old, who knows his next club might be the right one to kick start him. I just feel the longer it goes on that he can't get a successful stint of games under his belt, the more his development is being delayed. And that means I think a return to senior level would still be at least 5 years away at present

Lots of good points, but I think you're being unduly pessimistic, especially the timeframe for his return to the senior side.

Quite frankly all it would take is for him to have a run of scoring and assisting loads of goals at League One level or above and he'd be back in the squad for friendlies at the very least. Right now that seems a big if - but it's easy to forget how much talent this lad has. Just look again at the goal he scored against Austria - brilliant first touch preceding a superb finish. His assist for HRK was pretty special too. He has enough raw ability based on his performances for Wales at senior and U23 level to suggest to me that he'll back in the international fold sooner rather than later.

I agree that he needs to get away from the comfort zone at Anfield and commit to a career at a lower level at this point in time.

[iot]

He won't be sold by Liverpool as I can't see any strapped-for-cash lower league sides investing hundreds of thousands in him. I think it will be a Joniesta-type situation, a series of loans before he's released. The only way I can see him leaving before then would be to terminate his contract by mutual consent.

[allezlesrouges]

Jan 19, 2021 13:24:35 GMT alarch said:

Jan 18, 2021 23:24:06 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Agree, think he needs to be sold just to kick start something. I don't think he has a bad attitude or anything, but there's a degree of comfort being at a big club like Liverpool being sent on loan to know you're coming back to that eventually. I think he needs to be put into fight or flight mode, where he has to perform to stay in a professional league. Why not join Newport whether they go up or stay in League Two?

When he burst on the scene, we were in need of young talent to freshen up the squad and he looked like he'd be the best of the bunch. The staggering amount of players that have come through has meant our need for him to be the chosen one has reduced to the point of non-existence. Not only that, but the amount of players that have come through in his position is definitely a blessing. Brennan Johnson is two years his junior and seems to have overtaken him in terms of development

I think it'll be a long road back into international football for him if he's to do it. I would never write off a 21 year old, who knows his next club might be the right one to kick start him. I just feel the longer it goes on that he can't get a successful stint of games under his belt, the more his development is being delayed. And that means I think a return to senior level would still be at least 5 years away at present

Lots of good points, but I think you're being unduly pessimistic, especially the timeframe for his return to the senior side.

Quite frankly all it would take is for him to have a run of scoring and assisting loads of goals at League One level or above and he'd be back in the squad for friendlies at the very least. Right now that seems a big if - but it's easy to forget how much talent this lad has. Just look again at the goal he scored against Austria - brilliant first touch preceding a superb finish. His assist for HRK was pretty special too. He has enough raw ability based on his performances for Wales at senior and U23 level to suggest to me that he'll back in the international fold sooner rather than later.

I agree that he needs to get away from the comfort zone at Anfield and commit to a career at a lower level at this point in time.

When I say the senior team I meant getting regular action as a starter. No doubt that he could be called in before 5 years, especially if we are hit for injuries. I'm just thinking 5 years in terms of him really being in contention. I think he'd need a full year just to establish himself at a club, maybe another year to build on that and improve form, then a year after that to maybe looking at getting promoted or moving up a level and adjusting, then another seeing if he can improve at that level again. Part of my thinking is that other players in our squad will also be improving, so it will take more of an improvement for him to be in the conversation, in comparison to 3/4 years ago

Perhaps I am being unfairly pessimistic. I have been optimistic about him for a long while because he has had time on his side, but I feel now that he's 21 time is just starting to turn against him. By the time he turns 22 he won't necessarily be seen as a youngster, he will be expected to become a senior player. I hope he does become the player we know his talent warrants

[manulike]

What's the story with Benjamin?
Only played 40 minutes in January so far for a team like Blackpool - Long Covid?

[gimli]

theathletic.com/2353929/2021/01/30/ben-woodburn-liverpool-football/

It's behind a paywall so here's the text:

“The fact that he scores almost instantly after the anthem finishes is literally something straight out of a movie script.”

YouTube comments can be hit and miss. But this one — when watching a replay of Ben Woodburn’s debut goal for Wales — stood out.

Woodburn was handed his international debut by Chris Coleman in the second half of a crucial World Cup qualifier against Austria in September 2017. He had only been on the pitch for four minutes before his shot from distance bulged the net, broke the deadlock and stole all of the headlines.

The build-up to his strike at Cardiff City Stadium had been coated in a captivating rendition of Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau. It was movie-like as the passionate Welsh fans raised the atmosphere, almost assisting the 17-year-old whose goal ripped right through the final lines of the song.

It was a Hollywood moment for him.

This wasn’t the first time the English-born Welsh international had made everyone sit up and take notice. Ten months earlier, Woodburn eclipsed Michael Owen as the youngest goalscorer in Liverpool’s history to knock Leeds United out of the League Cup.

His goal, blasted in from close range, was set up by Georginio Wijnaldum — the player he had replaced against Sunderland three days earlier when making his debut for the seniors. The teenager wheeled away in delight, his arms outstretched like the wings of a plane as he wrote his name into Anfield history.

“Just as he dreamt it,” screamed the commentator.

But since that magical night at Anfield, Woodburn has struggled to reach the same euphoric highs.

Three loan spells and multiple injuries mean Woodburn is now at a crossroads at the tender age of 21. He recently returned from a short spell with Blackpool in League One where he failed to make headway under his former coach Neil Critchley.

“It wasn’t a major surprise when he went back (to Liverpool),” Matt Scrafton of the Blackpool Gazette tells The Athletic. “He was a bit unlucky. He got COVID-19 and had to self-isolate for 14 days. Blackpool then went on a really good run and when he came back he struggled to get in the team. When he did play, he didn’t really make an impact. It’s difficult to know why exactly. He has clearly got talent. You don’t play for Liverpool and Wales if you haven’t got talent.”


Critchley, who departed Liverpool’s Under-23s last year to take on the top job at Blackpool, had tried to play 4-3-3 in the opening weeks of the season. But having lost seven of nine games, he quickly reverted to 4-4-2 and a more direct approach in the hunt for results. It worked as Blackpool began to grind out wins — but it came at a cost to Woodburn who struggled to force his way into the starting team.

“I just don’t think he fitted in,” Scrafton admits. “When he did play he didn’t do enough to justify getting more minutes in the league. He has clearly got talent but you feel his next move is going to be a big one. He needs to get 30, 40 games under his belt and prove that he is a good player because as I say he’s clearly got the talent.”

The Athletic was told Critchley thought very highly of Woodburn but said the player struggled with injuries.

Scrafton also wonders whether the injuries Woodburn suffered last season during a loan spell with Oxford United may have taken their toll coming into this season.

Karl Robinson, the Oxford manager who was also an academy coach at Liverpool during Woodburn’s early years, has always believed in the Wales international’s ability.

It was under Robinson’s tutelage Woodburn seemed to thrive in the early weeks of his Oxford loan until injury struck. “He was playing brilliantly,” Robinson tells The Athletic. “He almost became a bit of a marked man with tackles and stuff like that. He plays with such a self-assuredness, he carries himself incredibly well on the football pitch. People don’t like that.”

But after a bright start to his Oxford career, injury hit at Accrington Stanley.

“The tackle wasn’t great,” Robinson recalls. With a bone in his foot broken, it halted Woodburn’s progress with the League One outfit as he returned to Liverpool in a leg brace to begin a period of rehabilitation at Melwood.

With rehab having gone smoothly, Robinson was looking forward to welcoming Woodburn back in December. However, he was told Woodburn would not be returning to Oxford as planned as he had broken a bone in his other foot due to a weight-loading issue.

With Woodburn set to face months on the sidelines, the season went on without him. Oxford were pushing for promotion to the Championship just as the pandemic hit in March. This hiatus granted Woodburn the opportunity to regain his fitness.

Oxford were then awarded a place in the play-off semi-finals. Woodburn was back fighting fit and Robinson started him in the first leg against Portsmouth, which ended 1-1 at Fratton Park. “After all that, he hadn’t started a game since Accrington and I started him. That’s how much I rated him,” he explains.

Portsmouth were brushed aside on penalties in the second leg with Woodburn scoring Oxford’s first spot-kick en route to a 5-4 shootout win. For the final itself at Wembley, Woodburn came on in the 89th minute as Wycombe Wanderers battled to a surprise 2-1 victory to win promotion to the Championship.

“He then goes to Blackpool, plays really well and is in the team for two games and then gets COVID-19,” Robinson says. “Then they start winning games and he finds it hard to get back in. He’s had bad luck after bad luck.”

Reacting to the news he has returned to Liverpool, Robinson says: “I’d like to see him out playing football again. Things out of Ben’s control have been the reasons why he’s not played (a lot of) senior games. His meteoric rise was phenomenal and then a few little injuries and loans that he found it difficult to find any rhythm. Don’t forget when you’ve had all of those little injuries it gives you a bit of self-doubt. He’s got to overcome that self-doubt and if he finds that aggression that he had when he first came to us — and when he first went to Sheffield United, and when he first broke on the scene at Liverpool — and forgets about his injuries and plays free… he is still a very good footballer.”

Woodburn’s loan at Sheffield United for the 2018-19 season was the first of three loans so far in his career. After impressing Jurgen Klopp during pre-season, the manager had viewed that initial loan as a stepping stone to him becoming a serious challenger for a first-team spot.

Aston Villa and Wigan Athletic were interested in Woodburn but Klopp intervened and thought Sheffield United was the club where he could prosper. His arrival at Bramall Lane excited fans but with the side on their way to clinching promotion to the Premier League, Woodburn struggled to break into an in-form side.

An injury to his ankle saw him recalled by Liverpool in January 2019. Once he regained his fitness, a string of appearances for Liverpool’s under-23s followed. Woodburn was then on the substitutes’ bench the night Barcelona were beaten 4-0 in the Champions League.

Having achieved so much so early in his career can act as a burden — as Robinson himself recognises. When he took charge at MK Dons at the age of 29 he became the youngest manager in English football.


Asked what it is like being much younger than your peers, Robinson replies: “Do you know what? It is hard. Sometimes you try to be someone you are not to cope with the demands. I think the problem with Ben is that when he has found who he is he’s had these injuries. I know nobody works as hard as Ben. I know that. My advice to him is, ‘Just be yourself’ because his talent is just incredible.”

Breaking Owen’s long-standing record, being nominated for the European Golden Boy award in 2017 and scoring for Wales at 17 can be burdensome. But Robinson, as with those close to Woodburn, thinks it is time for the player to stick his chest out and put those experiences and accomplishments to use.

“Steve Heighway used to speak constantly about the pressures and the burdens,” Robinson adds. “You have to be ready for it. It doesn’t matter who you are. There is always going to be a big burden on your shoulders if you want to play for Liverpool. If you score and you do what you dreamed of doing the night before well, that’s also part of enhancing more pressure on yourself. But you have to be ready to accept that if you want to play for the big clubs.”

With 18 months left on his deal it is looking less likely Woodburn will be able to forge his way into Liverpool’s starting line-up. With no new loan move on the horizon, Woodburn will drop back into the under-23s set up at the academy.

Woodburn’s career isn’t over. It is only just getting started.

The headlines are now behind him and the pursuit of making new ones must drive him on.

One of the comments to the article makes the claim that he has an attitude problem and was out partying all the time while on loan (I think that's been mentioned here before too). But the author of the article replied to that accusation with:

I chatted to a lot of different people for this piece and none of them questioned Ben’s attitude or work rate during his loan spells.

[fiveattheback]

Woodburn is clearly talented. He needs to leave Liverpool for the sake of his own development

[Deleted]

Was thinking about where the hell woodburn had gone to and noticed he scored for liverpool u23 the other day,he's a funny one isn't he,what do we think will happen to him.Hope he doesn't just fade away,what do you reckon his problem is? is he just to small for the physical lower league loans or is it something else?.Anyway just wondering with all the chat on the euros coming up,know he has had some injuries though,maybe just getting back from that.Hope he doesn't fade away though.

[hooky]

I think he just needs to want it

His attitude, fondness for a beer or two and lack of conditioning have all been cited as drivers behind his decline. I have no idea of whether this is true and have seen no evidence of this but if it is then he can change it if he wants to. Look at his desire when he scored for Wales vs Austria. He needs to chase that again. He is hardly small at 5ft 9in

He has the gift. He strikes the ball as well as Wilson and we have seen he has the game to assist. He just needs the desire. It was tragic seeing him struggle at Sheffield Utd and then Oxford, albeit injuries did not help.

He obviously needs to leave Liverpool. I just wish a Championship club would take him. Below that level and he could get lost, which would be a massive shame.

[quetzal]

He will never play for Wales again IMO

[walesgolfmadrid]

There's still time, he's still a young player all be it obviously the last few years haven't gone well for him. Hopefully at the right club things can start moving in the right direction.

[Deleted]

Thing is he broke through so young we forget he is still young,what is he now 21 ? jeez twenty one and probably got a bit of cash and still has the skills to make it,what are we worried about,sod him:) ,just joking.We all hope he makes it i'm sure,hate to see a hyped up welsh player fail,let's face it we have'nt got enough players not to get behind all of them.

[allezlesrouges]

When he broke on the scene it felt like we needed him to be a top player because the squad was getting stale

Now, we're blessed with talent in his position & we don't need to rely on him

That being said he's still 21. Needs a good move and a season of regular games which has still alluded him these past 4 years. I think his time at Liverpool is done & a permanent move to a League One club would be the best thing for him. I can still see him becoming a top Championship player and maybe a Premier League player if he gets lucky. In that sense he has a chance to be involved again in the future

What I would say though is that the time has gone for him to have a future ahead of him in the distance. The future is coming into focus for him now. These next 2 years are essential for him to get regular men's football

[danybont]

Another one of our midfielders that would do well to go abroad to avoid the more agricultural player you find in the football league.

Then again Ramsey disproves that theory a bit.

[talyfan]

Whatever next, he just needs to try and get 30+ games for a senior side in one season under his belt whether that might be League One or the Bermudan third tier. He just needs to play.

[dylanjunecymru]

On the bench today in the premier league for the first time since 2018!

[marsvolta]

May 8, 2021 18:46:59 GMT dylanjunecymru said:

On the bench today in the premier league for the first time since 2018!

The reaction to him being named on the bench shows how much better we treat our young Welsh players.

Whilst Welsh fans were pleasantly surprised and were pleased for him,The Liverpool fans have gone from ‘what an outrage it is that Wales have poached Ben Woodburn’ to ‘What the **** is Ben Woodburn doing on the bench?’ in a few short years.

Easy to forget that he is still only 21 and Harry Wilson wasn’t much further along at this stage.