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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 11, 2021 7:03:05 GMT
Seems like Tom Lawrence has been added to the increasing number of players who got slagged off on here when they play, but when they get left out of the squad their stock suddenly rises and everyone wants to know why we don’t pick them anymore. I hope you're not including me in that, as I've always backed Lawrence's footballing ability, even when other Welsh fans have given him stick. The driving offence is a separate manner and I no longer wish to dwell on that. In Tom's time with us, he's shown that he can score, set goals up and take players on. He'd be more of an asset to the squad than some of the players we're currently calling up. Page doesn't want him in the squad though, that much is clear so I'll have to wait for the next manager to be proven right (again). |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 11, 2021 7:07:41 GMT
Definitely deserves to be in the side ahead of the likes of Roberts and Colwill who got in the side in the last 2 games. Rarely lets us down. Can't say I agree with the last bit, he's been anonymous in about 90% of his appearances for Cymru. It's been a while since he last played, so I think people forget the type of performances he was actually putting in. Players always get better in fans' estimations when they've been out for a while, this is another example. That's an unfair assumption in my opinion. I've always backed Lawrence, and that isn't down to a lack of memory, we simply disagree. Also, if we're going down that route, 90% is better than 100% anonymous, or 100% anonymous barring missed sitters and the like!  |
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Post by dai on Sept 11, 2021 7:29:26 GMT
Seems like Tom Lawrence has been added to the increasing number of players who got slagged off on here when they play, but when they get left out of the squad their stock suddenly rises and everyone wants to know why we don’t pick them anymore. Hilarious, isn't it. Happens in every fanbase to be fair. It's just a way to criticise for those searching for opportunities to be critical. Also, just a nice simple solution that can be offered, doesn't matter whether there's any merit in it. What's hilarious is you dismissing a proven Championship player in favour of others - some who are unproven, and some who haven't contributed that much themselves. If you want to talk about percentages: Lawrence has 3 goals in 23 matches which is isn't far off Harry Wilson's' contribution for Wales ( 5 in 31), 3% difference to be mathematically correct. He also has a better goal to game ratio than Brooks (2 in 21). So this talk of being anonymous in 90% of his matches is exaggeration. I'll also say that I've always been a fan of Lawrence. I wanted him in the Euro 16 squad as a wildcard, but that wasn't meant to be. Check my posting history if you want. |
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Post by talyfan on Sept 11, 2021 7:34:43 GMT
The only madness here is the fact some of you are putting sorba ahead of Lawrence without even seeing him in a wales shirt. Lawrence was played a lot during our euros run so definitely a place in the squad for him. He’s clearly not been fancied much since that driving offence he was involved in. I've only put him ahead purely based on the fact we're likely to see him in the next round of fixtures to see what he's about and cap tie him. Not to say he is or will be better than Lawrence for Wales but out of the two at the moment we'll likely see Sorba called up for selection based on what I mentioned and not necessarily on ability between the two. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 11, 2021 7:51:28 GMT
The only madness here is the fact some of you are putting sorba ahead of Lawrence without even seeing him in a wales shirt. Lawrence was played a lot during our euros run so definitely a place in the squad for him. He’s clearly not been fancied much since that driving offence he was involved in. I've only put him ahead purely based on the fact we're likely to see him in the next round of fixtures to see what he's about and cap tie him. Not to say he is or will be better than Lawrence for Wales but out of the two at the moment we'll likely see Sorba called up for selection based on what I mentioned and not necessarily on ability between the two. Fair enough I rate Lawrence, he’s not a great player but does have the ability to get you a goal. Something desperately missing on Wednesday Didn’t Wilson start on the left... Lawrence would have been a good replacement |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 11, 2021 7:57:03 GMT
I've only put him ahead purely based on the fact we're likely to see him in the next round of fixtures to see what he's about and cap tie him. Not to say he is or will be better than Lawrence for Wales but out of the two at the moment we'll likely see Sorba called up for selection based on what I mentioned and not necessarily on ability between the two. Fair enough I rate Lawrence, he’s not a great player but does have the ability to get you a goal. Something desperately missing on Wednesday Didn’t Wilson start on the left... Lawrence would have been a good replacement Lawrence for Wilson would've been an ideal replacement for sure, Jonny struggled unfortunately. |
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Post by talyfan on Sept 11, 2021 8:01:44 GMT
He could do with leaving Derby. Gets pelters from the fans just for breathing! And I think any player playing for Wayne Rooney is going to stall them.
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Post by iot on Sept 11, 2021 8:41:29 GMT
Seems like Tom Lawrence has been added to the increasing number of players who got slagged off on here when they play, but when they get left out of the squad their stock suddenly rises and everyone wants to know why we don’t pick them anymore. I hope you're not including me in that, as I've always backed Lawrence's footballing ability, even when other Welsh fans have given him stick. The driving offence is a separate manner and I no longer wish to dwell on that. In Tom's time with us, he's shown that he can score, set goals up and take players on. He'd be more of an asset to the squad than some of the players we're currently calling up. Page doesn't want him in the squad though, that much is clear so I'll have to wait for the next manager to be proven right (again). "Page doesn't want him in the squad though, that much is clear so I'll have to wait for the next manager to be proven right (again)." I don't think that's fair. Lawrence has been either injured or badly out of from for the most part since Page came in. As I say, he only scored 3 in 23 games last season and recorded 1 assist - given that was his whole game (he hasn't traditionally offered much else), that's a very poor return. I don't think he scored at all last season until the last month when his form picked up. Further, Lawrence was actually selected in Page's squad back in March and played against Mexico - I was slightly annoyed Page was giving him gametime over someone else at the time because we knew all about him and he was in such bad form at club level. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think there were any griped about him being left of Page's squads until the Euros? There were a couple questioning his omission in the Euros, but when the likes of Wilson and Brooks barely got any gametime off the bench (and they were always going to be the first options ahead of Lawrence), he rightly wouldn't have played for us at all anyway so it's a bit of a non-issue. For this squad, he was unavailable. So I don't think there's much evidence to back up your point. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 11, 2021 8:56:19 GMT
I hope you're not including me in that, as I've always backed Lawrence's footballing ability, even when other Welsh fans have given him stick. The driving offence is a separate manner and I no longer wish to dwell on that. In Tom's time with us, he's shown that he can score, set goals up and take players on. He'd be more of an asset to the squad than some of the players we're currently calling up. Page doesn't want him in the squad though, that much is clear so I'll have to wait for the next manager to be proven right (again). "Page doesn't want him in the squad though, that much is clear so I'll have to wait for the next manager to be proven right (again)." I don't think that's fair. Lawrence has been either injured or badly out of from for the most part since Page came in. As I say, he only scored 3 in 23 games last season and recorded 1 assist - given that was his whole game (he hasn't traditionally offered much else), that's a very poor return. I don't think he scored at all last season until the last month when his form picked up. Further, Lawrence was actually selected in Page's squad back in March and played against Mexico - I was slightly annoyed Page was giving him gametime over someone else at the time because we knew all about him and he was in such bad form at club level. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think there were any griped about him being left of Page's squads until the Euros? There were a couple questioning his omission in the Euros, but when the likes of Wilson and Brooks barely got any gametime off the bench (and they were always going to be the first options ahead of Lawrence), he rightly wouldn't have played for us at all anyway so it's a bit of a non-issue. For this squad, he was unavailable. So I don't think there's much evidence to back up your point. surely its got to suck for him being overlooked for the euros in favour of Colwill for instance - considering lawrence had probably been in the squad for the majority of qualifiers - possibly even scoring to get us there. i know he has for the nations league. if he's good enough to play the majority of the qualifiers to get us there then he deserves a place in the tournament. |
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Post by iot on Sept 11, 2021 9:11:54 GMT
Hilarious, isn't it. Happens in every fanbase to be fair. It's just a way to criticise for those searching for opportunities to be critical. Also, just a nice simple solution that can be offered, doesn't matter whether there's any merit in it. What's hilarious is you dismissing a proven Championship player in favour of others - some who are unproven, and some who haven't contributed that much themselves. If you want to talk about percentages: Lawrence has 3 goals in 23 matches which is isn't far off Harry Wilson's' contribution for Wales ( 5 in 31), 3% difference to be mathematically correct. He also has a better goal to game ratio than Brooks (2 in 21). So this talk of being anonymous in 90% of his matches is exaggeration. I'll also say that I've always been a fan of Lawrence. I wanted him in the Euro 16 squad as a wildcard, but that wasn't meant to be. Check my posting history if you want. I'm not dismissing him at all, I've said if he continues to show good form he'll continue to climb up the pecking order (although Derby fans don't appear to agree with me that he is in good form). Also, all our forwards are proven championship players. If you are seriously questioning the likes of Wilson and Brooks being ahead of Lawrence, then sorry but that's just absurd. It's silly to turn it into a pissing contest by looking at their stats, but if you want to go down that route, Wilson has scored 32 and assisted 19 in 96 Championship games (that's an average G&A in every 0.53 games). Brooks is on 26 G+A in 68 games (averaging one in 0.38 games), Lawrence is on 63 G+A in 216 games (one in every 0.29 games). But that's an incredibly naive way of looking at things. Brooks clearly offers way more than his goals and assists, whereas that's been Lawrence's main deficiency - traditionally he's been one of those players who hasn't contributed anything to general play. Hence my comments about him being anonymous - I wasn't referring to his scoring record, more to his general contribution in games. Wilson is regarded one of the best forwards in the Championship, that's a sort of status Lawrence has never had for any sustained period of time. Brooks and Wilson are clearly a level above Lawrence so if you're having a go at Page for that, he'll never win. I can guarantee you that the next manager will continue to do the same |
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Post by iot on Sept 11, 2021 9:13:39 GMT
Fair enough I rate Lawrence, he’s not a great player but does have the ability to get you a goal. Something desperately missing on Wednesday Didn’t Wilson start on the left... Lawrence would have been a good replacement Lawrence for Wilson would've been an ideal replacement for sure, Jonny struggled unfortunately. Agreed, he may have started against Belarus to, but unfortunately he was not available for selection |
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 11, 2021 10:21:36 GMT
We have a number of forwards who are certainly better than Lawrence: Bale, James, Wilson, Brooks. That would make him 5th choice. Additionally we have a number of promising young forwards with a potentially higher ceiling who will get a lot from being in these squads, the two that come to mind are Johnson (who may even be better already) and Colwill, you could also throw in Roberts & Woodburn who I think it's important we don't lose faith with. I don't really see a point in giving a squad space to a 27 year old who is, at best, a decent Championship player when there are better players than him who are all younger and a clutch of younger players who could offer so much more in future and need experience
I know it's pretty much heresy to say it on here, but I think similarly about Jonny Williams as well. I can see an argument for his inclusion though on the grounds of him bringing slightly different attributes, Lawrence doesn't bring anything that isn't already in the squad.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 11, 2021 10:44:09 GMT
We have a number of forwards who are certainly better than Lawrence: Bale, James, Wilson, Brooks. That would make him 5th choice. Additionally we have a number of promising young forwards with a potentially higher ceiling who will get a lot from being in these squads, the two that come to mind are Johnson (who may even be better already) and Colwill, you could also throw in Roberts & Woodburn who I think it's important we don't lose faith with. I don't really see a point in giving a squad space to a 27 year old who is, at best, a decent Championship player when there are better players than him who are all younger and a clutch of younger players who could offer so much more in future and need experience I know it's pretty much heresy to say it on here, but I think similarly about Jonny Williams as well. I can see an argument for his inclusion though on the grounds of him bringing slightly different attributes, Lawrence doesn't bring anything that isn't already in the squad. Well we play a front 3 out of those 5 you mention and one is Lawrence. If 2 of those are injured he starts. So you have 5 players in competition for 3 spots. If all available... And you said it promising players but none have done more than Lawrence so far. They have potential but currently are they better? He’s better than roberts and Woodburn. They guy was good enough to be included to help us qualify for euros and nations league. Why wouldn’t he be good enough now, no new talent had come through. Johnson looks ok but so far he’s done nothing. We need experience and certainly experience that can nick a goal. He can change a game! And since when is a 27 year old decent championship player suddenly below us. In fact that’s probably exactly our level. How many minutes is James, Johnson, roberts, Woodburn, colwill getting at club level? |
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 11, 2021 11:07:59 GMT
We have a number of forwards who are certainly better than Lawrence: Bale, James, Wilson, Brooks. That would make him 5th choice. Additionally we have a number of promising young forwards with a potentially higher ceiling who will get a lot from being in these squads, the two that come to mind are Johnson (who may even be better already) and Colwill, you could also throw in Roberts & Woodburn who I think it's important we don't lose faith with. I don't really see a point in giving a squad space to a 27 year old who is, at best, a decent Championship player when there are better players than him who are all younger and a clutch of younger players who could offer so much more in future and need experience I know it's pretty much heresy to say it on here, but I think similarly about Jonny Williams as well. I can see an argument for his inclusion though on the grounds of him bringing slightly different attributes, Lawrence doesn't bring anything that isn't already in the squad. Well we play a front 3 out of those 5 you mention and one is Lawrence. If 2 of those are injured he starts. So you have 5 players in competition for 3 spots. If all available... And you said it promising players but none have done more than Lawrence so far. They have potential but currently are they better? He’s better than roberts and Woodburn. They guy was good enough to be included to help us qualify for euros and nations league. Why wouldn’t he be good enough now, no new talent had come through. Johnson looks ok but so far he’s done nothing. We need experience and certainly experience that can nick a goal. He can change a game! Those are just the 5 that are undoubtedly better than Lawrence, I'd throw Johnson in there personally and of course a fit Ramsey starts ahead of him in the 3 behind the striker. I'm not particularly certain he's a better player than Roberts either, if we play him correctly I think Roberts has a big future for us, just not as a lone striker! In terms of strikers he certainly doesn't start ahead of Keiffer & I think Harris may have worked his way into the pecking order. He barely played in qualifying for Euro 2020, playing out in Hungary & home to Azerbaijan and didn't appear again until the USA friendly. He also played just half an hour of our Nations League campaign, coming on in the home game against Finland. I'm not sure that really counts as helping us qualify for either considering the shitshows Hungary & Azerbaijan were. New players have come to the fore since then, Brennan Johnson didn't play a part in qualifying and Mark Harris was in the football wilderness about a year ago, he'll also now be competing with Sorba Thomas who has started the season brilliantly and, again, is younger than Lawrence. "He can change a game" you can say that about pretty much anyone. |
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 11, 2021 22:46:11 GMT
Seems like Tom Lawrence has been added to the increasing number of players who got slagged off on here when they play, but when they get left out of the squad their stock suddenly rises and everyone wants to know why we don’t pick them anymore. I hope you're not including me in that, as I've always backed Lawrence's footballing ability, even when other Welsh fans have given him stick. The driving offence is a separate manner and I no longer wish to dwell on that. In Tom's time with us, he's shown that he can score, set goals up and take players on. He'd be more of an asset to the squad than some of the players we're currently calling up. Page doesn't want him in the squad though, that much is clear so I'll have to wait for the next manager to be proven right (again). No, wasn’t aimed at you. Wasn’t actually aimed at Lawrence really either. It was more about the fact that we seem to have a thing where the longer a player is left out of the squad, the better they become in our minds, no matter how much they were criticised when they actually did play. After the Euros, these pages were full of praise for half a dozen or so lower league players who didn’t make the 26 man squad who apparently would have helped us against Denmark. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 11, 2021 23:44:24 GMT
I hope you're not including me in that, as I've always backed Lawrence's footballing ability, even when other Welsh fans have given him stick. The driving offence is a separate manner and I no longer wish to dwell on that. In Tom's time with us, he's shown that he can score, set goals up and take players on. He'd be more of an asset to the squad than some of the players we're currently calling up. Page doesn't want him in the squad though, that much is clear so I'll have to wait for the next manager to be proven right (again). No, wasn’t aimed at you. Wasn’t actually aimed at Lawrence really either. It was more about the fact that we seem to have a thing where the longer a player is left out of the squad, the better they become in our minds, no matter how much they were criticised when they actually did play. After the Euros, these pages were full of praise for half a dozen or so lower league players who didn’t make the 26 man squad who apparently would have helped us against Denmark. Amd that’s a completely natural occurrence because everyone on here thinks they can pick a squad better than the manager and sadly I’d agree that some of them probably could. We’re all going to disagree on who should be in a squad due to the sheer number of variables in play but when you pick a player like Colwill it does raise questions about what circumstances he would actually play. I’m not sure there really were any and Page took him simply for the crack because only a certain percentage of the squad would play anyway. But the issue then is when you get to the last 16 and you are looking around for a striker but you’ve only got Colwill that’s when people start to contrive that HRK would have been a better pick. It’s a similar thing to the Portugal game in 2016 when we threw on Church, that was the best we could do. Pretty pathetic. There were a few who complained about Bradshaw, I mean in terms of options they are both two different recipes for a shit sandwich, except we all knew from many years of experience eating Church sandwiches that they taste like shit, the Bradshaw sandwich we thought we knew but didn’t know for certain and then the legend of Bradshaw coming off the bench to put Portugal to the sword starts to take shape. That’s the way it goes because there is no way of proving people wrong when looking at it in hindsight. We’re seeing it now with Roberts in fact. We all know he wasn’t the right pick to start against Estonia, but Page goes ahead and does it anyway. More ammunition for people to lionise a player who wasn’t even called up to the squad like Lawrence or whoever else. |
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 12, 2021 10:35:38 GMT
Does Tom Lawrence actually do much in the Championship? If you didn't know he's Welsh would he even register in your head as a solid and decent Championship player?
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 12, 2021 10:38:06 GMT
That was a question to everyone, not any one person in particular. For me the answer is no at this point.
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Post by iot on Sept 12, 2021 11:16:42 GMT
That was a question to everyone, not any one person in particular. For me the answer is no at this point. He had one spell at Ipswich where he was getting attention as one of the biggest threats in the league when he had a purple patch of form over a month or two, and seemed to score 30-yard screamers every weeks. That's what got him the £7m move to Derby. But since then, it's just been a case of putting in that type of performance once every 6 or 7 games. Ask some of the Derby/Wales fans on here and they will tell you he gets more stick than anyone else from their fanbase. |
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Post by saturn9 on Sept 12, 2021 11:19:32 GMT
What were his stats like, when Lampard was in charge? Harry Wilson and Mount were outstanding for Derby when they got to the play offs under FL.
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Post by welshrover on Sept 12, 2021 12:02:52 GMT
That was a question to everyone, not any one person in particular. For me the answer is no at this point. He tried some shots yesterday, something the rest of our team appear to struggle to do. |
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Post by talyfan on Sept 12, 2021 13:18:01 GMT
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2021 16:09:17 GMT
Does Tom Lawrence actually do much in the Championship? If you didn't know he's Welsh would he even register in your head as a solid and decent Championship player? if he wasn't welsh but neither would 90% of our squad and probably been like that throughout our history. Most welsh people wouldn't know anyone outside bale and ramsey |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 12, 2021 17:18:01 GMT
Does Tom Lawrence actually do much in the Championship? If you didn't know he's Welsh would he even register in your head as a solid and decent Championship player? Do any of our championship players barring Harry Wilson, Kieffer Moore and David Brooks come under that bracket? |
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Post by dai on Sept 12, 2021 17:35:19 GMT
Does Tom Lawrence actually do much in the Championship? If you didn't know he's Welsh would he even register in your head as a solid and decent Championship player? Do any of our championship players barring Harry Wilson, Kieffer Moore and David Brooks come under that bracket? Do any at all? I know we rate Brooks a lot, but you can't say he's been a standout Championship player can you? Kieffer though, I did think he would get a PL move after last season. |
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Sept 17, 2021 16:02:28 GMT
Problem with tom is constancy, 1 in 5 games he shines, he started season good but he drift out of games and looks disinterested...
Yes he is the boo boys pet hate but even I get frustrated with him
Only one good season he has had at Ipswich,.
I defend him here but frustrating is under statement
I'm hoping he can keep the start of season up all way ... 🤞
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Sept 17, 2021 16:03:47 GMT
Does Tom Lawrence actually do much in the Championship? If you didn't know he's Welsh would he even register in your head as a solid and decent Championship player? Do any of our championship players barring Harry Wilson, Kieffer Moore and David Brooks come under that bracket? Wilson in my opinion class above the three |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 17, 2021 22:12:42 GMT
Do any of our championship players barring Harry Wilson, Kieffer Moore and David Brooks come under that bracket? Wilson in my opinion class above the three I agree, he's a Premier League level player and we really missed him when he went off against Estonia, despite his miss. |
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Post by gimli on Sept 23, 2021 16:15:22 GMT
With Derby County's current predicament, what does Tom Lawrence do next? It appears his contract is up in the summer, but I'm sure Derby's administrators will be trying to offload him in January to get his wages off the books and get some money out of him.
He's quite far down the pecking order for Wales these days, but if he gets a good move he might be able to work his way back into the reckoning.
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Oct 17, 2021 11:44:30 GMT
Lawrence had another good game, unlucky not to score 7/10 from me.
Captins arm band has surprisingly done him good and been consistently good in performances
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