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Post by welshwizard79 on Aug 17, 2014 12:22:56 GMT
When is the squad due to be named for Andorra?
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Post by ramsey on Aug 17, 2014 12:24:06 GMT
Surprised Lawrence still hasn't been loaned out yet. Even a Championship club would be good for him.
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Post by nathan1710 on Aug 17, 2014 14:27:05 GMT
In the next game he needs to cap Dummett, Williams, Isgrove and Lawrence. They all need tying down. Dummett and Lawrence should start and he should plan to bring Isgrove and Williams on. It sounds a bit sad but we don't have the player pool to argue
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Post by abwales on Aug 17, 2014 14:57:10 GMT
Chester needs locking down too. Our growing depth doesn't seem to be down to us producing players, but us being able to spot who has Welsh grannies. Our team will be more English than ever. I'd say 4 of our first choice 11 are English and its only going to increase. As long as we qualify who cares I guess...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 17:12:38 GMT
Chester will play for Wales no worries. A climb down and U-Turn now would be too much and too embarrassing for him. I think he should start ahead of Collins anyway as Collins showed once again yesterday that he is a ticking time bomb when it comes to red cards. I hope Collins is happy to be a squad player as he is a very good CB on his day. But we have to prioritise these younger players now as this will be his last campaign. Dummett is a safe bet too.
I would start Lawrence and Chester next game. Maybe even Geroge Williams too. And certainly bring on Dummett and Isgrove.
It will be difficult for Cookie to shoehorn these pre-meditated inclusions and subs in such an important away game. But it has to be done. He will know too. His capping of Harry Wilson shows he will go to extremes for our long term interest.
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Post by ramsey on Aug 17, 2014 17:26:20 GMT
Dummett looks bang average in comparison to Davies and Taylor. He needs to improve before he gets a callup and with the options England have at LB (Bertrand, Shaw, Gibbs, Baines etc) there's no real threat at us losing him anytime soon. We need to be careful to not reward mediocrity or even worse.
Williams, Lawrence and Isgrove definitely need to be capped. We don't have anywhere near enough options in their positions to be sentimental. Isgrove doesn't have as much potential as the former two but he could be a useful super sub.
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Aug 17, 2014 17:34:23 GMT
Dummett looks bang average in comparison to Davies and Taylor. He needs to improve before he gets a callup and with the options England have at LB (Bertrand, Shaw, Gibbs, Baines etc) there's no real threat at us losing him anytime soon. We need to be careful to not reward mediocrity or even worse. Williams, Lawrence and Isgrove definitely need to be capped. We don't have anywhere near enough options in their positions to be sentimental. Isgrove doesn't have as much potential as the former two but he could be a useful super sub. Dummett had a very good game... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 18:53:44 GMT
Dummett looks bang average in comparison to Davies and Taylor. He needs to improve before he gets a callup and with the options England have at LB (Bertrand, Shaw, Gibbs, Baines etc) there's no real threat at us losing him anytime soon. We need to be careful to not reward mediocrity or even worse. Williams, Lawrence and Isgrove definitely need to be capped. We don't have anywhere near enough options in their positions to be sentimental. Isgrove doesn't have as much potential as the former two but he could be a useful super sub. Dummett had a very good game... Dummett can also play at CB which is why he should be considered. I don't see him getting a sniff for Wales at LB either. |
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Post by nathan1710 on Aug 17, 2014 20:44:10 GMT
I think Dummett is third choice Wales LB, but as it's already been said on this post, he also plays CB which is a major plus to us. So you could take Williams, Gabbidon, Chester, Collins and have Dummett just in case. I'm sure you will never get those 5 at the same camp anyway, we're not that lucky
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Post by toshfan on Aug 17, 2014 21:56:32 GMT
Chester needs locking down too. Our growing depth doesn't seem to be down to us producing players, but us being able to spot who has Welsh grannies. Our team will be more English than ever. I'd say 4 of our first choice 11 are English and its only going to increase. As long as we qualify who cares I guess... Some of us see the dangers of referring to any of our players as English! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 6:10:58 GMT
Squad gets announced next week I really hope the likes of easter don't end up getting in again the guys useless,I hope the squad has lawerence,George Williams in it,as for isgrove if he is going to go to England good riddance anyone who has to 'DECIDE' if they want to play for Wales I'd rather not have them in the squad!!
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Post by luke on Aug 18, 2014 9:37:59 GMT
Lawrence is the only player that it is important to cap against Andorra. I would expect to see him to come on once the game is safe. It would be great to cap others too but anyone in the squad is pretty much "tied down" as they wouldn't go out there if they weren't prepared to play.
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Post by alarch on Aug 18, 2014 10:34:33 GMT
I don't really see what the big deal is with Isgrove. Has he said he doesn't want to play for Wales any more? Is his situation any different from Dummett's was? If he jumps ship so be it, but I don't see the benefit of needlessly alienating him when he may well still opt to play for Wales. We've got to be realistic here, Welsh-qualified players born in raised in England are always likely to have divided loyalties. All that matters at the end of the day is which country they commit to. Did Ashley Williams grow up dreaming of playing and captaining Wales? I very much doubt it - but he's making a very good fist of it now, and that's all that matters at the end of the day.
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Post by toshfan on Aug 18, 2014 10:46:20 GMT
I don't really see what the big deal is with Isgrove. Has he said he doesn't want to play for Wales any more? Is his situation any different from Dummett's was? If he jumps ship so be it, but I don't see the benefit of needlessly alienating him when he may well still opt to play for Wales. We've got to be realistic here, Welsh-qualified players born in raised in England are always likely to have divided loyalties. All that matters at the end of the day is which country they commit to. What concerned a number of us is that Isgrove removed references to Wales on his twitter profile. I was involved at an implementation in Manchester a few years ago and one of the supplier's engineers was from Tamworth. He knew Ashley Williams growing up and remarked how Ash was always insistent that he was Welsh. For me, he is one of our most committed players and such a strong example to young people on a number of levels. On the Welsh Football Fans forum on facebook, there is a chap expressing frustration at us having too many English born players and wanting all our players to be born in Wales. Like the majority, I find his views offensive on a number of levels but if the background to such a stance is about passion for the shirt etc I would always cite Ashley Williams and Joniesta. It is beyond doubt that the latter chose Wales. I find something extra special about those players. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 11:17:29 GMT
I have no issue with non welsh born players pulling on a welsh shirt,my issue is the faw pumping time and money into developing these players only for them to sod off when other nations take an interest I.e bond,Lloyd Jones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 12:12:22 GMT
G.Williams and Bale to start on the wings vs Andorra, then Tom Lawrence and Lloyd Isgrove to come on!
Simon Church will probably start up front, I like him but Sam Vokes would have been a better option. I think he'll do well in the premier league.
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Post by liamburke on Aug 18, 2014 12:49:23 GMT
Wales is almost a bit like a parasitic entity when it comes to youth development. People like to have a pop at the English on here and their clubs but it's fair to say, without the English leagues, the Welsh national team would be very worse off. It's all well and good the FAW pumping loads of money into a development centre in Newport, but they seem to be missing the huge factor in youth development, a strong DOMESTIC LEAGUE. The FAW has ignored the Welsh leagues for some time (the LoW was only brought in so Wales could continue to be an independent footballing nation). There are many reforms needed in the WPL, which can seen by all who watch their local domestic team, the FAW meanwhile has blatantly ignored any calls for change.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 13:08:23 GMT
Wales is almost a bit like a parasitic entity when it comes to youth development. People like to have a pop at the English on here and their clubs but it's fair to say, without the English leagues, the Welsh national team would be very worse off. It's all well and good the FAW pumping loads of money into a development centre in Newport, but they seem to be missing the huge factor in youth development, a strong DOMESTIC LEAGUE. The FAW has ignored the Welsh leagues for some time (the LoW was only brought in so Wales could continue to be an independent footballing nation). There are many reforms needed in the WPL, which can seen by all who watch their local domestic team, the FAW meanwhile has blatantly ignored any calls for change. You should start a new thread on this. Very interesting and something people like me don't know a lot about. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 13:20:45 GMT
I don't really see what the big deal is with Isgrove. Has he said he doesn't want to play for Wales any more? Is his situation any different from Dummett's was? If he jumps ship so be it, but I don't see the benefit of needlessly alienating him when he may well still opt to play for Wales. We've got to be realistic here, Welsh-qualified players born in raised in England are always likely to have divided loyalties. All that matters at the end of the day is which country they commit to. What concerned a number of us is that Isgrove removed references to Wales on his twitter profile. I was involved at an implementation in Manchester a few years ago and one of the supplier's engineers was from Tamworth. He knew Ashley Williams growing up and remarked how Ash was always insistent that he was Welsh. For me, he is one of our most committed players and such a strong example to young people on a number of levels. On the Welsh Football Fans forum on facebook, there is a chap expressing frustration at us having too many English born players and wanting all our players to be born in Wales. Like the majority, I find his views offensive on a number of levels but if the background to such a stance is about passion for the shirt etc I would always cite Ashley Williams and Joniesta. It is beyond doubt that the latter chose Wales. I find something extra special about those players. Great post. There are references on Isgrove's twitter still referring to his pride in playing for the Welsh U21's. There are absolutely no references to England (Jon Bond style) - even during the World cup. He may have removed something from his profile, but could this be because he wants to be considered for the seniors? Maybe it doesn't look to glamourous for a player trying to push into the starting 11 of a top PL side to boast about playing for the Wales U21s? Isgrove has had a great pre-season. Koeman and the club clearly rate him. Made his first Premier League appearence yesterday. He plays in a position we have few options for - on the wing and has tons of pace, which Wales need in order to beat stronger opposition on the couner attack. I would say getting Isgrove to play for Wales is important. |
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Post by alarch on Aug 18, 2014 13:32:34 GMT
I agree Otto. He may change his mind about playing for Wales, but nothing is definitive yet, so why make his mind for him?
Interesting and surprising observations Toshfan, given that Ashley Williams' link with Wales is through one grandparent only. I wonder where his affinity with Wales comes from - childhood holidays in Wales perhaps? I imagine Ashley and Joniesta's affinity with Wales is exceptional amongst "Anglos". With the majority of dual-qualified Welsh players born and raised in England it would be surprising if they didn't initially have aspirations to play for England.
We should expect some of our prospective players to be uncertain of their allegiance, and have the good grace to accept whatever their decision is in the long run. Making a song and dance about it will only needlessly alienate them - and how does that help the Welsh cause?
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Post by biwmares on Aug 18, 2014 15:12:27 GMT
Joniesta's affinity with Wales is because his dad is from Anglesey.
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Post by Tim P on Aug 18, 2014 17:04:10 GMT
I agree Otto. He may change his mind about playing for Wales, but nothing is definitive yet, so why make his mind for him? Interesting and surprising observations Toshfan, given that Ashley Williams' link with Wales is through one grandparent only. I wonder where his affinity with Wales comes from - childhood holidays in Wales perhaps? Ashley's mam is Welsh. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 17:30:28 GMT
I agree Otto. He may change his mind about playing for Wales, but nothing is definitive yet, so why make his mind for him? Interesting and surprising observations Toshfan, given that Ashley Williams' link with Wales is through one grandparent only. I wonder where his affinity with Wales comes from - childhood holidays in Wales perhaps? I imagine Ashley and Joniesta's affinity with Wales is exceptional amongst "Anglos". With the majority of dual-qualified Welsh players born and raised in England it would be surprising if they didn't initially have aspirations to play for England. We should expect some of our prospective players to be uncertain of their allegiance, and have the good grace to accept whatever their decision is in the long run. Making a song and dance about it will only needlessly alienate them - and how does that help the Welsh cause? I am born in England and raised in Wales. My Dad was English, my Mother Welsh. I feel 0% English and 100% Welsh. I would very rarely turn on the TV to watch an England game, yet I support a Welsh club and with Wales I am so obsessed I'm on this forum with you guys! I have a lot of English friends who for various reasons disassioate themsleves with English nationalism. A few of them have said the English flag represents far right wing polotics to them which they are ashamed of. Rightly or wrongly, England itself does seem to be going through an identity crisis culturely compared to other eras. Back to the point, with Ashley Williams and Joniesta, sometimes you are proud of the heratige that makes you an individual. Look at America. A unanimously nationalistic country, yet you will often hear proud proclamations of "I'm Irish" or "I'm Italian", even if these people never been to the motherland! If players like Isgrove, Dummett, Chester and co feel the pride the same way that Ashley and Joniesta do, enough to play for Wales and risk injury etc. Wellcome aboard!! |
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 19, 2014 12:41:18 GMT
It's not as simple as:
Born and raised in Wales = Welsh
Born and raised in England = English
There are plenty of people Welsh Born and Bred, who watch England on TV rather than their own national team. And then, there are people born and raised in England, with some sort of Welsh family connection who go to most of our home games.
I remember Niall Quinn writing a piece defending the number of 'Anglo's' in the Irish squad. He said that in some ways second generation Irish people were often 'more Irish' than those born and bred in Ireland...
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Post by biwmares on Aug 22, 2014 23:25:06 GMT
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Post by ramsey on Aug 23, 2014 3:02:19 GMT
Really hope this lad develops into a proper #9. Most United fans are convinced he's a Second Striker though.
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 23, 2014 12:45:33 GMT
Just watched the highlights. His goal was a tap in, but it was good to see him in a Rush-like position to put it away.
oh, and it seems Van Gaal is prepared to let Welbeck go. Should increase Lawrence's chances a wee bit I guess.
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Post by shoestring on Aug 23, 2014 17:23:27 GMT
Just watched the highlights. His goal was a tap in, but it was good to see him in a Rush-like position to put it away. oh, and it seems Van Gaal is prepared to let Welbeck go. Should increase Lawrence's chances a wee bit I guess. |
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Post by shoestring on Aug 23, 2014 17:24:02 GMT
Just watched the highlights. His goal was a tap in, but it was good to see him in a Rush-like position to put it away. oh, and it seems Van Gaal is prepared to let Welbeck go. Should increase Lawrence's chances a wee bit I guess. |
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Post by shoestring on Aug 23, 2014 17:31:47 GMT
Besides Lawrence there were apparently 5 other welsh players involved in the Liverpool v man Utd under 21s. Harry Wilson. Jordan Williams and ward for Liverpool. Not sure of the other two although suspect one may be Jones who has thrown his lot in with England
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