|
|
Post by iot on Dec 3, 2021 17:16:54 GMT
Not in Spurs' 20-man squad tonight, despite their best CB being injured. I really can't see how he gets another look-in for them. It's probably a good thing as it will (hopefully) mean he agitates for a move in Jan and they look like they would be very happy to move him along. If he was closer to the first team, he would be more in limbo and more likely to waste the season. In Conte's press conference today he said that he sees Rodon exclusively as a central CB in the back three, which is Dier's position to lose at present. Conte seems very particular about players being specialists in his defence, so as he considers Rodon a CCB, he won't play him at RCB or LCB. It's possible Conte won't consider loaning him out because he's the designated back-up for that position. Unfortunately, judging from social media it appears Dier has done well since Conte came in, so Rodon could be waiting a while for a chance unless Dier gets injured. Not really an ideal situation. I think he might in fact actually be in limbo and quite likely to waste the season after all... I watched the spurs game yesterday, and Dier was very good. The main difference between him and Rodon, and I've said this several times, is his ability on the ball. It was Dier's brilliant through ball that led to a corner where Spurs scored their first goal, Rodon would not have made that pass. Dier made another good through ball and several good switch of plays as well. I was reading a Walesonline article earlier that described Rodon as a 'ball-playing centre back' and expressed their surprise that he's not favoured by Conte, but I'm not sure where that reputation has come from to be honest. In his only appearance for Conte to date, he was very poor on the ball and got hooked off after 50mins because of it. Unless he improves significantly in that respect, I can't see Conte trusting him even as a back-up to Dier. I'm fairly sure he would play Sanchez or Tanganga as the ccb ahead of him and I'm sure he'll look to bring in other CBs in January, so I'm fairly confident that they would be prepared to let Rodon go. |
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Dec 3, 2021 19:24:58 GMT
That's all very good but is not a centre back's first responsibility to defend? Playing through balls from distance is a bonus but you need to be good at your bread & butter first. Its not like Rodon can not move the ball around. Its just that he is not gonna hit a cross field ball from 50 yards to find the winger in space consistently, like Ben Davies can.
Last year Dier and the rest of the centres backs were abysmal defending. Dier was the worst. This year it seems Dier is doing far better - fair enough - but the other two are NOT good central defenders. Judging Rodon on 50 mins in a low profile game where he had nothing to gain and everything to loose is a nonsense, especially when that rubbish, horror of a club has no doubt undermined his confidence massively. We have seen Rodon many times for Wales and he is consistently solid to very good defensively.
Having said that then this is the first proper manager in a row that have not favoured him (Morhino gave him a few chances) and Conte is a decent judge so hopefully Rodon learns to improve on the weaknesses in his game.
I just hope he goes somewhere to get regular football ahead of our play off matches - Championship level is fine!
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Dec 3, 2021 19:27:06 GMT
Dier is of course a converted defensive midfielder!
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Dec 3, 2021 19:48:28 GMT
That's all very good but is not a centre back's first responsibility to defend? Playing through balls from distance is a bonus but you need to be good at your bread & butter first. Its not like Rodon can not move the ball around. Its just that he is not gonna hit a cross field ball from 50 yards to find the winger in space consistently, like Ben Davies can. Last year Dier and the rest of the centres backs were abysmal defending. Dier was the worst. This year it seems Dier is doing far better - fair enough - but the other two are NOT good central defenders. Judging Rodon on 50 mins in a low profile game where he had nothing to gain and everything to loose is a nonsense, especially when that rubbish, horror of a club has no doubt undermined his confidence massively. We have seen Rodon many times for Wales and he is consistently solid to very good defensively. Having said that then this is the first proper manager in a row that have not favoured him (Morhino gave him a few chances) and Conte is a decent judge so hopefully Rodon learns to improve on the weaknesses in his game. I just hope he goes somewhere to get regular football ahead of our play off matches - Championship level is fine! I thought someone would come back with that comment ha! It's a basic requirement for a CB yes, but usually to play in a top side you need to be able to do a lot more, and that's particularly true for the way Conte likes his teams to play. He plays two holding midfielders and just three forward players (if you don't count the wing backs), so the centre backs are relied upon to contribute in the build-up play / provide creativity. I agree with most of your comments and think he's by far our best centre back (excluding Davies), but he's just not a good fit for Conte and probably isn't good enough for a top 6 side like Spurs |
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Dec 3, 2021 20:11:47 GMT
Lets hope he works damn hard to improve those bits of his game, then this will end up a blessing in disguise.
I guess we have not had a top end centre back since Ratcliffe, but was he good on the ball?
Its a hard one - Rodon or Ampadu? Well given his 6ft 4inch frame and his propensity to through himself in harms way then Rodon every time. However, Ampadu is obviously far better on the ball but (like Dier) surely he should play as a defensive midfielder!
One thing that is striking is why can't our central defenders never present a goalscoring threat? Look at McGuire - he is prolific. Imagine having a Cd like him!
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Dec 3, 2021 20:13:03 GMT
PS - Ben Cabango is the nearest thing we have for a goalscoring centre back but then again he is apparently bot so good technically on the ball and can't even get into the Swansea team nowadays!
|
|
|
|
Post by mrpicton79 on Dec 3, 2021 21:24:15 GMT
Lets hope he works damn hard to improve those bits of his game, then this will end up a blessing in disguise. I guess we have not had a top end centre back since Ratcliffe, but was he good on the ball? Its a hard one - Rodon or Ampadu? Well given his 6ft 4inch frame and his propensity to through himself in harms way then Rodon every time. However, Ampadu is obviously far better on the ball but (like Dier) surely he should play as a defensive midfielder! One thing that is striking is why can't our central defenders never present a goalscoring threat? Look at McGuire - he is prolific. Imagine having a Cd like him! Never rated Ashley then..? |
|
|
|
Joe Rodon
Dec 3, 2021 21:45:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 3, 2021 21:45:53 GMT
Not in Spurs' 20-man squad tonight, despite their best CB being injured. I really can't see how he gets another look-in for them. It's probably a good thing as it will (hopefully) mean he agitates for a move in Jan and they look like they would be very happy to move him along. If he was closer to the first team, he would be more in limbo and more likely to waste the season. In Conte's press conference today he said that he sees Rodon exclusively as a central CB in the back three, which is Dier's position to lose at present. Conte seems very particular about players being specialists in his defence, so as he considers Rodon a CCB, he won't play him at RCB or LCB. It's possible Conte won't consider loaning him out because he's the designated back-up for that position. Unfortunately, judging from social media it appears Dier has done well since Conte came in, so Rodon could be waiting a while for a chance unless Dier gets injured. Not really an ideal situation. I think he might in fact actually be in limbo and quite likely to waste the season after all... To be fair, Rodon has always played centrally in the back 3 for us as well, he is best there in my opinion. Chances will be few and far between as Dier doesn't really get injured much. What about Romero when he comes back too? Defo time to move |
|
|
|
Joe Rodon
Dec 3, 2021 22:17:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by marsvolta on Dec 3, 2021 22:17:19 GMT
Lets hope he works damn hard to improve those bits of his game, then this will end up a blessing in disguise. I guess we have not had a top end centre back since Ratcliffe, but was he good on the ball? Its a hard one - Rodon or Ampadu? Well given his 6ft 4inch frame and his propensity to through himself in harms way then Rodon every time. However, Ampadu is obviously far better on the ball but (like Dier) surely he should play as a defensive midfielder! One thing that is striking is why can't our central defenders never present a goalscoring threat? Look at McGuire - he is prolific. Imagine having a Cd like him! Never rated Ashley then..? Nor Gabbs |
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Dec 4, 2021 0:22:26 GMT
well they never played for a top 6 team let alone a top 4 team did they?
|
|
|
|
Post by jimexotic on Dec 4, 2021 2:05:45 GMT
After the 2006 FA Cup final Gabbidon was never the same player, he had an injury, made stupid mistakes and just never became what he should have been. I was absolutely gutted because I thought he had a brilliant season 2005/06 and was going to be a top player for years. Ashley Williams is the only really quality one we've had, James Collins was decent enough but again, like Gabbidon, I found that he often made silly errors.
|
|
|
|
Post by saturn9 on Dec 16, 2021 18:28:05 GMT
Linked to Newcastle today, link over on DS. Loan to Forest and Cooper come January, and a possible push for play offs with them. Would be my advice 😉
|
|
|
|
Joe Rodon
Dec 16, 2021 18:50:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by evans1282 on Dec 16, 2021 18:50:59 GMT
Lets hope he works damn hard to improve those bits of his game, then this will end up a blessing in disguise. I guess we have not had a top end centre back since Ratcliffe, but was he good on the ball? Its a hard one - Rodon or Ampadu? Well given his 6ft 4inch frame and his propensity to through himself in harms way then Rodon every time. However, Ampadu is obviously far better on the ball but (like Dier) surely he should play as a defensive midfielder! One thing that is striking is why can't our central defenders never present a goalscoring threat? Look at McGuire - he is prolific. Imagine having a Cd like him! It's why comparing players from different eras is difficult,Ratcliffe was the best CB I saw in a Wales shirt ,and him with Jeremy Charles was probably the best pairing . Ratcliffe good on the ball? Not by today's standard but for his era ? Yes.He was also lightening. |
|
|
|
Post by jimexotic on Dec 16, 2021 22:49:59 GMT
Linked to Newcastle today, link over on DS. Loan to Forest and Cooper come January, and a possible push for play offs with them. Would be my advice 😉 Absolutely, that would be the perfect move for him right now. |
|
|
|
Post by iot on Dec 19, 2021 18:33:01 GMT
Have to say, Dier, Sanchez and Davies were immense today. They all looked good defensively, but I'll say it again the difference with Rodon is they were all progressive on the ball too. Davies had a role in their equalizer with a really nice pass through the lines. Dier made 2 outstanding balls over the top which ended up in good chances, and Sanchez made a similar one himself.
|
|
|
|
Post by cynonvalley on Dec 19, 2021 18:44:20 GMT
Yes, Ben played well today.
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Dec 19, 2021 21:42:32 GMT
Am not sure its the progressive play
However, one thing that Dier and Davies, followed by Sanchez, can do is hit a long diagonal accurately. I guess this is just as important given James, Bale and Moore as forward targets on the break
I don't think Rodon can suddenly develop that in his game to as high a level as the others but hopefully he can improve that aspect of his game a lot.
He definitely needs a loan move though as he will not develop if he is just sat on the bench. Wish he'd just stayed at Swansea for another year as its hard to see how the period at Spurs has helped his development
|
|
|
|
Post by caeboy on Dec 20, 2021 20:45:01 GMT
The europa conference would have given him games, but with Spurs now turfed out, he needs a January move.
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Jan 5, 2022 19:20:46 GMT
Conte said a couple of weeks ago that he sees Rodon as the main back up to Dier. I suspected he wasn't being entirely truthful at the time, and tonight's lineup confirms it, with Tanganga coming in and Sanchez moving over to ccb rather than Rodon.
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Jan 5, 2022 19:22:00 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Jan 5, 2022 19:46:16 GMT
Total disaster for Rodon and Wales
I know Conte is a good manager but Rodon is not as poor as the manager's attitude to him suggest. That horrible club has surely shot his confidence to bits. Bloody hell - Rodon has looked decent against decent international teams. His treatment makes no sense. I get he can't hit a long ball accurately but most CDs are a bit limited somewhere!
On top of this we have Levy. Spurs bought Rodon for £11mn and are reported to want £20mn for Rodon despite damaging his reputation. You could not make it up. Unless they soften their stance then he is gonna be stuck there regressing. Levy always wants to turn a profit. You could not make this shit up!
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Jan 5, 2022 20:35:17 GMT
Good news is that the decision seems to be backfiring spectacularly with Tanganga having an absolute mare. Hopefully he comes on early in the second half and shores things up. That could move him up the pecking order
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Jan 5, 2022 21:32:07 GMT
Well no surprise Rodon is still benched.
Conte sure is stubborn when he does not like someone
The worst thing is that someone as shot as Winks gets brought on / has some game time and yet Rodon is obviously the worst central defender in the universe
He must leave - join someone like Brighton / Newcastle and have stormers every time he plays against Spurs. That would be karma!
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Jan 5, 2022 21:44:12 GMT
Total disaster for Rodon and Wales I know Conte is a good manager but Rodon is not as poor as the manager's attitude to him suggest. That horrible club has surely shot his confidence to bits. Bloody hell - Rodon has looked decent against decent international teams. His treatment makes no sense. I get he can't hit a long ball accurately but most CDs are a bit limited somewhere! On top of this we have Levy. Spurs bought Rodon for £11mn and are reported to want £20mn for Rodon despite damaging his reputation. You could not make it up. Unless they soften their stance then he is gonna be stuck there regressing. Levy always wants to turn a profit. You could not make this shit up! I think you're misunderstanding the issue. It's not as simple as Conte refusing to play him because one aspect of his game isn't up to scratch, it's that having the ability to switch play in that CCB position is fundamental to how Conte's teams set out. If anything, the first half will convince him more of that - Spurs couldn't get a foothold in the game partly because Sanchez couldn't do what Dier does. It's similar to when Pep came in at Man City. Hart was England's no.1 and considered one of the top keepers, but he was a very traditional keeper and couldn't do what Pep needed to implement his style of play. If you watch man city now, Ederson is completely fundamental to their build up play, and yet at the time people couldn't understand why Hart was being shipped out for what most considered to be one of the most unimportant attributes for a keeper. It might sound like a small detail, but it's fundamental for Conte |
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Jan 5, 2022 21:55:27 GMT
That's the point though. Its not like those other centre backs are any / much better than Rodon at switching play / hitting long balls. Dier and Davies can do it but the rest of that shower of shit?
Also they played a 6ft full back in central defence today and that clown forgot to head the ball upwards - hence the own goal off Davies. No one will convince me Tanganga is a better CD than Rodon. Never mind that's not exactly his position. I would never play a limited player like that ahead of Rodon.
Lets just hope he gets out of there very soon!
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Jan 5, 2022 22:37:05 GMT
Evening Standard ratings for these apparently ball playing centre backs:
Japhet Tanganga 4
Had a nightmare. Sold Royal short for Chelsea’s opening goal and headed at Davies from point blank range for their second.
Davinson Sanchez 5
Might have done better for Havertz’s goal and struggled at the centre of the back three, where he was often uncomfortable in possession. Gave away the free-kick leading to Chelsea’s second
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Jan 5, 2022 22:38:49 GMT
Football London ratingsL
aphet Tanganga
Started the game nervously as shown by his underhit pass that led to the opening goal. Then under no pressure from a Chelsea free-kick headed it off Ben Davies and back into the Spurs net. He had a couple more shaky moments in the second half. A bad day at the office from the young defender. 3
Davinson Sanchez
Unfortunate with the early Chelsea goal as he rushed in to help but couldn't do much about the ball being fired at him from close range. The central role doesn't suit his lack of passing ability and he looked out of position at times as he had to try to cover in a makeshift back three but he actually had some good moments in dealing with Lukaku, aside from one header the Belgian had too much room for. 5
|
|
|
|
Post by dai on Jan 9, 2022 15:59:54 GMT
A miracle occurred today, Rodon actually started a game for Tottencrap.
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Jan 9, 2022 19:13:47 GMT
Getting lots of stick on Twitter. Shame, he needed a flawless game to stand any chance of moving up the pecking order. By the sounds of it, it was far from that. On the bright side, it may get him closer to a move!
|
|
|
|
Joe Rodon
Jan 10, 2022 5:38:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by quetzal on Jan 10, 2022 5:38:23 GMT
Tbf he plays a lot better for Wales than Spurs. Rubbish for Spuds
|
|
