Toshack

[1870magpie]

Ok, Tosh is willing to go if the FAW can find a suitable replacement.

However, will Tosh have a say in this?!

If so, is he likely to recommend Flynn (someone below him, who contributes to the coaching of the seniors) for the job hmm, i doubt it very much?!

[medibot]

O'Neill (for the ability) or Flynn (because he's proven in our set up and can hardly do much more to justify consideration).

None of the ex-Wales players have enough experience as managers and I'd rather hire somebody who DOESN'T know what it's like to sit dejected in the changing rooms after ballsing up another qualifying campaign.

[Deleted]

First of all, I would say a big thank you to Tosh. He has built the foundations for the future for which somebody else will take all the credit. Happy retirement Tosh.

Secondly, he has been astute. I think he knew from the point Ramsay was crocked that this was going to be a severe setback to our hopes of qualifiying and that a good start was imperative in the first three games - to put ourselves in a decent position until Ramsay returned in March. After Montenegro I think he knows the chances of turning things around in the double header in October with him at the helm are slim and he has jumped - before being pushed. I think he also is a passionate Welsh football fan and desparately wants us to quality - the only chance of this is through the infusion of new leadership - can this be the springboard to a positive outcome in the crucial October double header? This situation should be sorted out in advance of these two games - Tosh in charge for these games now is surely a non starter.

Flynn is the key now. Is he happy to continue running Welsh football (that's effectively what has been going on the last 5 years with Tosh in Santander) with another figurehead to take the glory/flack? I am sure he is and if we can get Giggs in as that figurehead it might be the catalyst to future success - he is a born winner and that's what we need right now.

[saints19]

Why do people think Giggs would be a good manager? I'm just curious, I can only think that some people think he is another Mark Hughes who will bring back the good days, but the only similarity I see is that Giggs has had an excellent playing career and is a great professional. However, Hughes has people skills whereas Giggs has always seemed to me too introverted to be a really good manager. Plus, he retired from Wales while he still had something to give and I don't see him standing up to Sir Alex now.

I really don't think it would be a good move, maybe if he was brought in alongside Flynn it would be a tolerable appointment and might give the fans a bit of a buzz but only on the understanding that Flynn would be the real head honcho.

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2010 12:34:18 GMT saints19 said:

Why do people think Giggs would be a good manager? I'm just curious, I can only think that some people think he is another Mark Hughes who will bring back the good days, but the only similarity I see is that Giggs has had an excellent playing career and is a great professional. However, Hughes has people skills whereas Giggs has always seemed to me too introverted to be a really good manager. Plus, he retired from Wales while he still had something to give and I don't see him standing up to Sir Alex now.

I really don't think it would be a good move, maybe if he was brought in alongside Flynn it would be a tolerable appointment and might give the fans a bit of a buzz but only on the understanding that Flynn would be the real head honcho.

Saints19 - I'm confused - wasn't expecting the Tosh resignation.

The biggest problem with Giggs and Wales has always been his comittment (or lack of it) as we all know - The more I think about it the more I think Flynn should get the nod (if he wants it) - he is the one who knows this generation of players and their strengths/weaknesses. Giggs will use Wales to further his own managerial career and **** off as soon as a better offer comes along - but his appointment would provide a short term boost - and right now what we need is a short term boost.

[medibot]

Having thought about it, Gérard Houllier anyone?

[idiot]

Sept 6, 2010 14:57:17 GMT medibot said:

Having thought about it, Gérard Houllier anyone?

but we've just got rid of one ego-maniac? plus he's not sure about the villa job so i doubt lil old wales would be on his radar

[bale-droed]

o neil would be brilliant. troussier great.

lawrie sanchez!

[caradocevans]

You're insane if you think O'Neill would manage Wales. No chance.

[idiot]

Sept 6, 2010 15:38:17 GMT caradocevans said:

You're insane if you think O'Neill would manage Wales. No chance.

i tend to agree with you but we should still ask....he was linked with a return to forest couple of weeks ago so you never know

[saints19]

O'Neill is 99% likely to reject us, but we've nothing to lose by asking.

After we ask Flynn, of course.

[Tim P]

houllier? nope. he did a similar thing to tosh when he was at france - we need someone to move the Project on to the next phase.

o'neil? seems like a candidate - i think he knows that he won't get a big job in england, and he's never made any comments about going abroad.

but, still, it must be a Flynn Project.

names like rush, saunders, giggs, sanchez,coleman are by turns depressing, bizarre and nonsensical.

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2010 16:51:33 GMT Tim P said:

houllier? nope. he did a similar thing to tosh when he was at france - we need someone to move the Project on to the next phase.

o'neil? seems like a candidate - i think he knows that he won't get a big job in england, and he's never made any comments about going abroad.

but, still, it must be a Flynn Project.

names like rush, saunders, giggs, sanchez,coleman are by turns depressing, bizarre and nonsensical.

I think Sanchez is just what we need at this moment in time. We badly need an injection of team spirit, morale and most importantly of all belief. If nothing else he managed to conjure that up with Northern Ireland and turned them from a shambles into a side that competed for qualification.

Those are the exact same qualities Flynn would bring imo. So if the FAW decide Flynn stays with the Under 21s then Sanchez (for me) would be near the top of the list, certainly ahead of Giggs and Coleman.

[thedon]

Agreed,Ryan giggs or coleman shouldn't get anywhere near the welsh team,I am a huge flynn fan and think he has earned his chance at the top job,Sanchez is an interesting choice though,i doubt o'neill would want the job,Whoever we appoint would be 100 times better than toshack,Even bobby gould wasn't as bad as this idiot,Good riddance tosh,Don't let that door hit you on the way out.

[Tim P]

sanchez would jump ship at the first offer of league footie.

this would be the pinnacle of flynn's career.

sanchez is coming off a failure, flynn is on a high.

sanchez would not be a preferred choice of the FOOTBALLERS we have in our side, who also happen to be our best players. flynn would excite the likes of bale, bellamy and ramsey.

it has to be Flynn.

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2010 17:58:39 GMT Tim P said:

sanchez would jump ship at the first offer of league footie.

this would be the pinnacle of flynn's career.

sanchez is coming off a failure, flynn is on a high.

sanchez would not be a preferred choice of the FOOTBALLERS we have in our side, who also happen to be our best players. flynn would excite the likes of bale, bellamy and ramsey.

it has to be Flynn.

I think they would be happy with anyone now that old fathead is on his way out! ;D

[newaddingtonwelsh]

but, still, it must be a Flynn Project.

Flynn has done an excellent job no doubt about that,but lets remember that he is not alone in this task what about David Williams and below them Osian Roberts who is doing an excellent coaching job with the schoolboys

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2010 22:49:30 GMT newaddingtonwelsh said:

but, still, it must be a Flynn Project.

Flynn has done an excellent job no doubt about that,but lets remember that he is not alone in this task what about David Williams and below them Osian Roberts who is doing an excellent coaching job with the schoolboys

David Williams? The guy who was in charge of the youth at Norwich?
If so then it seems we have done well to have him involved, they still speak very highly of him at Bristol Rovers. Both as a player and as a coach. Never a bad word said about him.

[oojibooji]

And a former Welsh caretaker manager as well. Does anyone remember against whom and when?

[bale-droed]

if flynn for example wanted to stay with the under 21's or something and in that case

if sanchez or o neill were put in charge id run around the place in joy.

we have better players than northern ireland and look at what he did there. sanchez would be great

[newaddingtonwelsh]

In January 2005,was given a new role with the Welsh Football Association, in addition to his role at Carrow Road. He will take responsibility for looking after Wales' Under-21, Under-19 and Under-17 teams under manager Bryan Flynn, who was recently appointed to develop the country's young stars, he announced his retirement from his role as Norwich City's Assistant Academy Manager in May 2007

he was caretaker manager for wales against Yugoslavia March 1988?

[saints19]

O'Neill would be an incredible appointment, he is one of the best coaches in the world. His Celtic teams punched above their weight in Europe, and he took Villa back into Europe after several seasons of mediocrity. I can't emphasise enough how sensational it would be if we pulled that off.

But Flynn deseres to be offered it first.

1st Flynn; 2nd O'Neill; 3rd Kerr; 4th Coleman/Sanchez. There's your 5 candidates.

[cilmeri]

I've been giving some thought to why the general consensus is that Toshack's time had come, but that the Western Mail seem to think he had the best win % - I presumed he'd got lucky with some friendlies.

Just looked into it - and the win % of the last 4 managers are as follows;
Tosh - 40.7%
Yorath - 38.1%
Sparky - 28.57%
Gould - 28%

and in competitive games only;
Tosh - 38.7%
Yorath - 42.9%
Sparky - 22.2%
Gould - 29.4%

So by that reckoning Sparky was an abject failure.

I think it's more to do with the disappointing performances just when we needed a good one, or a poor performance would follow one or two glimers of something coming together that was the problem - but maybe that had more to do with injuries in those games, and we should've stuck by him?

Lies, damn lies and statisitics I suppose.

[saints19]

In fairness,we have had 7-team and 6-team groups under Tosh, which leaves us more opportunity to collect wins against weaker sides. The last campaign for me was a pretty abject one; the only good result we got was the win in Azerbaijan which compares well to the draw we got in Baku under Hughes in 2005.

[cilmeri]

You may well be right there saints - Finland and Italy stand out as decent wins under sparky. whereas the slovakia one is the only real stand out one for Tosh. On the other hand Sparky could only draw Norn Ireland and drew v Armenia twice....

Sparky wins
Belarus
Belarus
Finland
Italy
Azerbaijan
Azerbaijan

Tosh wins
Poland
Northern Ireland
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
San Marino
Slovakia
San Marino
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein
Estonia
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein

[georgetm1]

I dont recall us beating Poland in ages, correct me if im wrong.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2010 15:20:51 GMT georgetm1 said:

I dont recall us beating Poland in ages, correct me if im wrong.

Yeah that's wrong. I believe we have played them twice under tosh. In Poland and that daft friendly in Portugal and lost 1-0 both times.

I stand to be corrected as that's off the top of my head, but pretty sure it's right.

[Deleted]

In all honesty San Marino shouldn't even count as nobody ever drops points against them, it's a given win. I would go so far as to include liechtenstein in that too but that maybe harsh as they have picked up the occasional competitive result once in every blue moon.

[welshwizard79]

We didnt beat Poland under Tosh and we beat Estonia in a friendly

[Baxter Cymru]

The thing with sparky he always tested the team with glamorous friendlys, germany, aregentina ect so lost more games that way.