Giggs

[stu]

The reason we dismissed them so quickly is because they are so easy to dismiss.

Take a look at FlynnFans list and see if you can dismiss those as quickly as we dismissed your list.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2011 17:38:27 GMT njdragon said:

trendy and stu this wasnt a direct attack on this 'petition' just thought might be a good idea to try and point out some other thoughts

pity you dismissed my comments so quickly

All of us are entitled to opinions NJ, but in the case of Ryan Giggs' history or lack of it with Wales, it's hard not to dissmiss your comments. Sorry!

[njdragon]

Ok Stu I could easily write 'that is shit' or be un-constructive with my comments also but i wont stoop to that level as i believe flynnfan points are well made but there are two sides:

1.Have a go at a club manager about releasing a player for international duty.
Clubs have to release players for international duty.

2. Utter a word about passion or commitment to international football.
Giggs has played in many passionate game for wales – notably the hughes qualifying campaign. He was constantly battling against the media questioning his 'apparent' choice to play for wales. He still maintained he would have chosen wales - thats the commitment.

3. Talk about the importance of international friendlies and how players need to turn up.
He could point out the fact about how he struggled with this and the negative effect it had on the side eventually. Im sure to be around him would be enough motivation for some of these young players who grew up watching giggs.

4. Read the riot act to players about keepin their private lives in check and avoid media attention.
This is irrelevant and its something that club managers should deal anyway. What has capello done with terry recently?

[marsvolta]

i personally have no problem with giggs or any other candidates private life.
if he can lead us to brazil then he can shag who he wants(might even let him shag me,ha ha)

as for losing respect of the players for not being faithful to his wife,does anybody think a pile of twentysomething players who party every weekend with loads of women falling at their feet will really think any less of giggs for doing it.

before anyone starts, im not saying i want giggs,im just saying i dont care about the new managers private life.

[stu]

I don't care who he's done, the only thing that troubles me about his private life is the fact that he went to such great lengths to try and hide it. If he had the balls to call a press conference to admit what everyone already knew then it would have said a lot for his character. As is, it just proves he is a coward. We should remember that it was an MP who outed him under parlimentary privelage. We all knew it was him, it was chanted across the terraces and joked about on the forums. Yet the papers were not allowed to print it because he could afford a fancy lawyer. The man is a pussy!

Which leads me nicely onto point 3 of NJs post, if Giggs were to admit that he took the piss out of Wales and that he genuinely was sorry and that he genuinely believed his lack of comittment caused a detrimental effect to the team then that would be fantastic. But everything about the 'man' tells me that he lacks the bollocks to own up to anything.

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2011 18:56:44 GMT stu said:

Trendy, I would say that a leopard doesn't change his spots. Either he didn't care enough to play for Wales or he lacked the bollocks to stand up to Fergie. I believe it's mostly the second as his cowardice was revealed to the whole world over the twitter scandel. Instead of being a man and admitting it he tried everything possible to hide it.

I don't care what he did in his private life but the way he tried to cover it up makes me not think he's not made of the stuff we need.

This nails it in a nutshell.

[stu]

www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/football-in-wales/2011/12/17/ryan-giggs-ticks-more-boxes-than-most-to-become-new-wales-manager-raymond-verheijen-is-amongst-those-ticking-the-least-91466-29967599/

Have a read, comment if you are registered. Register if you are not or simply vote up the sensible comments.

[njdragon]

after the circumstances surrounding our last managers death i think its irrelevant to the job to cast aspersions of peoples characters without us knowing the full facts. Whoever thought this would have happened to someone like speedo

who knows what personality makes a good manager and who knows why people do what they do.

[marsvolta]

Dec 18, 2011 9:58:52 GMT njdragon said:

after the circumstances surrounding our last managers death i think its irrelevant to the job to cast aspersions of peoples characters without us knowing the full facts. Whoever thought this would have happened to someone like speedo

who knows what personality makes a good manager and who knows why people do what they do.

well said mate. i agree with the people who are against giggs for football reasons but dont agree with people having a pop at his private life.

[President Bale]

Giggs? Just a big fat no!

[llannerch]

I think he'd be fine on purely football-related matters. The personal life stuff is irrelevant. There'll be another celebrity scandal along in a moment and we'll forget about his.

As for the players' regard for him: they would absolutely idolise him, dare I say, as much as Speed. All he's got to do is bring along his twelve ( ) League winners medals and mention he's played for United 890 times (according to Wiki just now) and they will be in awe. That's all professional players are interested in let's be honest. Marsvolta is right about players regard for 'matters of the heart'....notches on the bedpost that's all they are

However....and it is a huge however.....he has no credibility in approaching ANY club manager and prioritising country over club. And this is hugely important

[Deleted]

What happens if Giggs is the manager of Wales, Ferguson is still manager of MU and in 2 years time a young Welsh star (a prolific striker, the best British striker since Rush), purchased by MU is required by Wales for an important away game in Lithuania as a warm up for a crucial qualifier.

I would like to formally add my name to the petition.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2011 14:10:26 GMT @baresi said:

What happens if Giggs is the manager of Wales, Ferguson is still manager of MU and in 2 years time a young Welsh star (a prolific striker, the best British striker since Rush), purchased by MU is required by Wales for an important away game in Lithuania as a warm up for a crucial qualifier.

I would like to formally add my name to the petition.

Agreed. He'd still have no backbone to stand up to Taggart and make a case for the player to be playing for us in Lithuania.

[njdragon]

Dec 19, 2011 14:10:26 GMT @baresi said:

What happens if Giggs is the manager of Wales, Ferguson is still manager of MU and in 2 years time a young Welsh star (a prolific striker, the best British striker since Rush), purchased by MU is required by Wales for an important away game in Lithuania as a warm up for a crucial qualifier.

I would like to formally add my name to the petition.

bloody hell - keep dreaming!

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2011 15:05:52 GMT njdragon said:

Dec 19, 2011 14:10:26 GMT @baresi said:

What happens if Giggs is the manager of Wales, Ferguson is still manager of MU and in 2 years time a young Welsh star (a prolific striker, the best British striker since Rush), purchased by MU is required by Wales for an important away game in Lithuania as a warm up for a crucial qualifier.

I would like to formally add my name to the petition.

bloody hell - keep dreaming!

Should have put it in the 12 days of Christmas thread!

[welshwizard79]

Dec 17, 2011 18:29:50 GMT njdragon said:

Ok Stu I could easily write 'that is shit' or be un-constructive with my comments also but i wont stoop to that level as i believe flynnfan points are well made but there are two sides:

1.Have a go at a club manager about releasing a player for international duty.
Clubs have to release players for international duty.

2. Utter a word about passion or commitment to international football.
Giggs has played in many passionate game for wales – notably the hughes qualifying campaign. He was constantly battling against the media questioning his 'apparent' choice to play for wales. He still maintained he would have chosen wales - thats the commitment


3. Talk about the importance of international friendlies and how players need to turn up.
He could point out the fact about how he struggled with this and the negative effect it had on the side eventually. Im sure to be around him would be enough motivation for some of these young players who grew up watching giggs.

4. Read the riot act to players about keepin their private lives in check and avoid media attention.

This is irrelevant and its something that club managers should deal anyway. What has
capello done with terry recently?

1. Yes managers are supposed to release players for international duty. However, if anybody thinks that it's that straight forward is deluisional. The 'Club versus Country' debate is common place everytime international fixtures take place. From a Welsh point of view this had a massive effect on our side. Look at the recent Bellamy fiasco with Dave Jones when Flynn took charge. There have been endless occasions where players have cited injury then played the next weekend in the premiership or championship.


2. Giggs was only qualified to play international football for Wales. That's not commitment it's the situation he found himself in. Do you applaud a player who was born and plays for the Faroe Islands but who happened to grow up in Glasgow. It's not a commitment to play for your country of birth and parentage, for Giggs that was his only option.


3. As we know Giggs record for Wales was abysmal and winning 64 caps in 16 years is very poor. Bale has 33 already. I don't think him standing up and saying look boys I couldn't be arsed but I regret it, will have a profound effect on the squad.

4. And lastly, yes the media spotlight probably is the least important. However, the media plays a massive role in sport and football, just look at the England team. Giggs' recent media scandal has shown us that he is not someone the media ia gonna leave alone and is vulnerable as a result.



Giggs was my hero as a fan but his retirement left me feeling let down, and his constant withdrawals made me lose faith in him as an international player. Can't see him in the manger of Wales role I'm sorry!

[Deleted]

Giggs simple lack of commitment to wales is the reason i dont want him involved with wales,look at the likes of carl robinson when he was playing in canada never failed to turn up puts giggs to shame.what anyone does in the private life is not relevant BUT being commited to wales is,something giggs was'nt.

[njdragon]

Dec 19, 2011 22:26:28 GMT welshwizard79 said:

Dec 17, 2011 18:29:50 GMT njdragon said:

Ok Stu I could easily write 'that is shit' or be un-constructive with my comments also but i wont stoop to that level as i believe flynnfan points are well made but there are two sides:

1.Have a go at a club manager about releasing a player for international duty.
Clubs have to release players for international duty.

2. Utter a word about passion or commitment to international football.
Giggs has played in many passionate game for wales – notably the hughes qualifying campaign. He was constantly battling against the media questioning his 'apparent' choice to play for wales. He still maintained he would have chosen wales - thats the commitment


3. Talk about the importance of international friendlies and how players need to turn up.
He could point out the fact about how he struggled with this and the negative effect it had on the side eventually. Im sure to be around him would be enough motivation for some of these young players who grew up watching giggs.

4. Read the riot act to players about keepin their private lives in check and avoid media attention.

This is irrelevant and its something that club managers should deal anyway. What has
capello done with terry recently?

1. Yes managers are supposed to release players for international duty. However, if anybody thinks that it's that straight forward is deluisional. The 'Club versus Country' debate is common place everytime international fixtures take place. From a Welsh point of view this had a massive effect on our side. Look at the recent Bellamy fiasco with Dave Jones when Flynn took charge. There have been endless occasions where players have cited injury then played the next weekend in the premiership or championship.


2. Giggs was only qualified to play international football for Wales. That's not commitment it's the situation he found himself in. Do you applaud a player who was born and plays for the Faroe Islands but who happened to grow up in Glasgow. It's not a commitment to play for your country of birth and parentage, for Giggs that was his only option.


3. As we know Giggs record for Wales was abysmal and winning 64 caps in 16 years is very poor. Bale has 33 already. I don't think him standing up and saying look boys I couldn't be arsed but I regret it, will have a profound effect on the squad.

4. And lastly, yes the media spotlight probably is the least important. However, the media plays a massive role in sport and football, just look at the England team. Giggs' recent media scandal has shown us that he is not someone the media ia gonna leave alone and is vulnerable as a result.



Giggs was my hero as a fan but his retirement left me feeling let down, and his constant withdrawals made me lose faith in him as an international player. Can't see him in the manger of Wales role I'm sorry!

I never said you didnt have valid points.

My point is after seeing the last games i really dont want our momentum to slow down and bringing in a new management and backroom staff may cause this. We want a transition that is as smooth as possible and thats why i wouldn't be adversed to giggs coming in with dutch ray and osian - giggs simply learning the ropes and more of a dare i say it marketing mans role.

What are our other options guys, realistically?? hughes maybe, coleman, flynn or hartson. Giggs, ray and osian together represent a realistic opportunity. We have our continuity along with giggs as the marketing mans dream.

If the FAW were offered this, im pretty sure they would bite their hands off (probably their own)

[Tim P]

Not just picking on you njdragon, because other people have said it, but can someone explain to me what positive effect the appointment of Giggs would have from a marketing point of view?

How many more people will attend Wales games because Giggs is manager?
How many more people will buy Wales shirts because Giggs is manager?

I'm sure the like of Bananatwat will love writing about it, but then again I'm sure he'd love writing about Ray too (albeit from an exclusively negative angle, I'm sure), so that kind of cancels that out.

[njdragon]

Yeh i have no probs with other peoples points of view

He just has a huge profile in the world of football - its something that ford and the FAW had obv pinpointed with the appointment of speed which seemed like a left field choice at the time.

He must be one of our most famous footballers ever produced, love him or loathe him.

[llannerch]

Dec 19, 2011 22:26:28 GMT welshwizard79 said:

Giggs was my hero as a fan but his retirement left me feeling let down, and his constant withdrawals made me lose faith in him as an international player. Can't see him in the manger of Wales role I'm sorry!

Giggs was your hero....yet you make the points you do. None of which are related to his retirement....which you felt let down by. Odd

[Tim P]

Dec 20, 2011 13:15:05 GMT njdragon said:

Yeh i have no probs with other peoples points of view

He just has a huge profile in the world of football - its something that ford and the FAW had obv pinpointed with the appointment of speed which seemed like a left field choice at the time.

He must be one of our most famous footballers ever produced, love him or loathe him.

Okay, but how does that help us?

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2011 13:25:01 GMT Tim P said:

Dec 20, 2011 13:15:05 GMT njdragon said:

Yeh i have no probs with other peoples points of view

He just has a huge profile in the world of football - its something that ford and the FAW had obv pinpointed with the appointment of speed which seemed like a left field choice at the time.

He must be one of our most famous footballers ever produced, love him or loathe him.

Okay, but how does that help us?

Profile. The ability to arrange higher quality friendlies perhaps? - oh the irony.

[njdragon]

you asked me 'what positive effect the appointment of Giggs would have from a marketing point of view?'

The fact that he is/was a very high profile player - does that not answer your question? i.e raise the profile of the welsh team, well known figure head and before the whole affair prob a marketing mans dream appointment. Ask any of his sponsors throughout the years what effect he has when it comes to marketing.

Wonder how many people had giggs on their welsh/united shirts growing up.

[Tim P]

Baresi: Is that true though, in practice?

Giggs is a private (often surly) individual who keeps to himself and has only ever played for one team.

Who in international management can he call up and ask for a friendly?

[Tim P]

Dec 20, 2011 13:54:20 GMT njdragon said:

you asked me 'what positive effect the appointment of Giggs would have from a marketing point of view?'

The fact that he is/was a very high profile player - does that not answer your question? i.e raise the profile of the welsh team, well known figure head and before the whole affair prob a marketing mans dream appointment. Ask any of his sponsors throughout the years what effect he has when it comes to marketing.

Wonder how many people had giggs on their welsh/united shirts growing up.

You're not giving me any concrete answers.

'raise profile of the Welsh team'

What does that mean? As far as I can tell, it means one day of articles/stories and then....?

Giggs on utd shirts? I'd guess quite a lot.
Giggs on Wales shirts? Few.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2011 13:56:31 GMT Tim P said:

Baresi: Is that true though, in practice?

Giggs is a private (often surly) individual who keeps to himself and has only ever played for one team.

Who in international management can he call up and ask for a friendly?

Don't know really - was not being totally serious. I was just making a flippant comment about friendlies.

I think any influence would be minimal in international management as opposed to club management where ex-club mates often help each other out.

At the end of the day, he has no credibility for this role.

[Deleted]

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/league_of_wales/9055751.stm

From October 2010.

[njdragon]

TRENDY HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT GIGGS IS MARKETABLE?

He has been all his life... do we really need to go through this.

[njdragon]

Not touting him for the job just to answer trendys question about marketing -

According to an article by BBC Sport: "In the early 1990s, Giggs was David Beckham before Beckham was even holding down a place in the United first team. If you put his face on the cover of a football magazine, it guaranteed you the biggest sales of the year. Why? Men would buy it to read about 'the new Best' and girls bought it because they wanted his face all over their bedroom walls. Giggs had the million-pound boot deal (Reebok), the lucrative sponsorship deals in the Far East (Fuji) and the celebrity girlfriends (Dani Behr, Davinia Taylor) at a time when Beckham was being sent on loan to Preston North End."[72]