Giggs

[llannerch]

Dec 20, 2011 14:44:27 GMT njdragon said:

Not touting him for the job just to answer trendys question about marketing -

According to an article by BBC Sport: "In the early 1990s, Giggs was David Beckham before Beckham was even holding down a place in the United first team. If you put his face on the cover of a football magazine, it guaranteed you the biggest sales of the year. Why? Men would buy it to read about 'the new Best' and girls bought it because they wanted his face all over their bedroom walls. Giggs had the million-pound boot deal (Reebok), the lucrative sponsorship deals in the Far East (Fuji) and the celebrity girlfriends (Dani Behr, Davinia Taylor) at a time when Beckham was being sent on loan to Preston North End."[72]

But Beckham went on to play in World Cups and European Championships.

Mind you, it is spurious to compare any player's marketability with that of Beckham. Only in the last couple of years have the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka, Henry got to his level. That Beckham is still largely maintaining it well past his best playing days is remarkable

[Tim P]

Dec 20, 2011 14:39:44 GMT njdragon said:

TRENDY HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT GIGGS IS MARKETABLE?

He has been all his life... do we really need to go through this.

Can you explain to me how he would be marketed then?

As has been mentioned, he's not Beckham, or Messi, or Ronaldo - or Henry for that matter.

He is a surly and cagey individual. But let's just say he agrees to go along with the marketing thing (and that is a big if), please tell me, in concrete terms, how this will help Wales?

[georgetm1]

Who cares if Giggs is marketable. That is not the point of international football. Its results that count and in return this bring success and money. I don't think Giggs is the man for the job at all. People harp on about how much of a successful club career Giggs has, but that doesn't mean shit. Not every great player becomes a good manager and just because of what he has done for Manchester United doesn't automatically give him the right to manage Wales.
He does not deserve the job just because of his name. He is inexperienced and has done fuck all for Wales to be placed into the role of national team manager. We are on one of the best runs in my living memory and we can't afford to have rebuild all over again so the FAW make a few quid more on tickets sold to fairweather supporters.

[Tim P]

Dec 20, 2011 15:50:32 GMT georgetm1 said:

Who cares if Giggs is marketable. That is not the point of international football. Its results that count and in return this bring success and money. I don't think Giggs is the man for the job at all. People harp on about how much of a successful club career Giggs has, but that doesn't mean shit. Not every great player becomes a good manager and just because of what he has done for Manchester United doesn't automatically give him the right to manage Wales.
He does not deserve the job just because of his name. He is inexperienced and has done fuck all for Wales to be placed into the role of national team manager. We are on one of the best runs in my living memory and we can't afford to have rebuild all over again so the FAW make a few quid more on tickets sold to fairweather supporters.

I agree with this.

But the reason I keep going on about the marketing thing is that I suspect it is bullshit. Put Mourinho in charge of Wales and you'll see the benefits of marketing/profile. But I just cannot see what Giggs, both the individual and 'the brand', can possibly bring.

[welshwizard79]

Dec 20, 2011 13:20:15 GMT llannerch said:

Dec 19, 2011 22:26:28 GMT welshwizard79 said:

Giggs was my hero as a fan but his retirement left me feeling let down, and his constant withdrawals made me lose faith in him as an international player. Can't see him in the manger of Wales role I'm sorry!

Giggs was your hero....yet you make the points you do. None of which are related to his
retirement....which you felt let down by. Odd

Yeah I make the points I do as this discussion is about Giggs as Welsh manager not about his retirement. I merely pointed out that I was let down by his retirement as a footnote which also highlights his lack of passion for representing his country.

[welshwizard79]

Dec 20, 2011 15:50:32 GMT georgetm1 said:

Who cares if Giggs is marketable. That is not the point of international football. Its results that count and in return this bring success and money. I don't think Giggs is the man for the job at all. People harp on about how much of a successful club career Giggs has, but that doesn't mean shit. Not every great player becomes a good manager and just because of what he has done for Manchester United doesn't automatically give him the right to manage Wales.
He does not deserve the job just because of his name. He is inexperienced and has done fuck all for Wales to be placed into the role of national team manager. We are on one of the best runs in my living memory and we can't afford to have rebuild all over again so the FAW make a few quid more on tickets sold to fairweather supporters.

Agreed.

[saints19]

Marketability is a red herring. If we win games we will sell way more stuff, irrespective of who is manager, because the Welsh football public is fickle as hell. We started to see that with Speed. The CCS was fuller than it had been for a long while for the game against Norway, because we had beaten Montenegro, Switzerland, and Bulgaria. But that was not beacuse of Speed's marketability. And nor would it be any different with Giggs. The FAW have to appoint the best man for getting results, and then the marketing of the team will take care of itself.

[flynnfan]

The FAW have to appoint the best man for getting results, and then the marketing of the team will take care of itself.
----------------------------
BOOM!

[llannerch]

Dec 20, 2011 16:50:45 GMT welshwizard79 said:

Yeah I make the points I do as this discussion is about Giggs as Welsh manager not about his retirement. I merely pointed out that I was let down by his retirement as a footnote which also highlights his lack of passion for representing his country.

Yet by your own admission were a fan of his?

[flynnfan]

All this talk about marketing really is bollocks. Look at Manchester United- one of (if not the) best supported teams in the world. One of the most successful stories in football marketing, selling shirts and all sorts of shit all over the planet... And yet, their manager is old, ugly, surly, barely inteligable, hates most of the press (who don't particularly like him as a consequence)... and generally is a million miles away from being a marketing man's dream. And yet Manchester Utd are one of the biggest success stories in football marketing. Why? Simple: because they get results.

This is the only question which should be guiding the FAW through this whole process of looking for a new manager: WHO IS GOING TO GET RESULTS?? or, to put it another way: WHO IS GOING TO GET US TO BRAZIL??

[Bastion]

If, after the interview process, the FAW and current players are both very keen on him I'd go along with it but personally I'd rather Steve Kean than have Giggs in charge. I won't dwell on the multitude of reasons because you've all covered them but how any Welsh player or fan can have the necessary respect for Ryan Giggs would baffle me.

[njdragon]

the maketing question i do think is relevant and heres why? Have a big name as a figure head and like giggs and get people back in supporting the team. Lets face it giggs in charge of the team is going to get more newspaper columns than someone like sanchez. This in turn raises our profile as a team and more publicity.

A better crowd & fanbase equals more money for the FAW towards resources and a more professional outfit, its also equals a better atmos - no player wants to play at empty grounds. This is how it will benefit wales (trendy)

Flynn fan i agree with you too and getting results will also bring the crowds back in but these can go hand in hand together. Manchester united have such a history their name markets themselves - we are wales and how many times have we moaned on this board about the amount of column inches from the press .

[welshwizard79]

Dec 20, 2011 22:50:52 GMT llannerch said:

Dec 20, 2011 16:50:45 GMT welshwizard79 said:

Yeah I make the points I do as this discussion is about Giggs as Welsh manager not about his retirement. I merely pointed out that I was let down by his retirement as a footnote which also highlights his lack of passion for representing his country.

Yet by your own admission were a fan of his?

Yes. When I was a kid and starting watching Wales games in the early 90s I was a fan of Giggs and all the big names like Hughes, Rush and Saunders etc. This was for their ability as footballers not because they might be Welsh managers in 20 years time. I remained a fan of Giggs throughout his international career although used to get frustrated with his attendence record as did the whole country. However, like I said his retirement left me feeling let down. He could have easily done another campiagn or 2 years. If he had matched Speedos tally of caps he would have got two more campaigns in.

[Bastion]

This talk of marketing is cobblers. I can honestly say I don't care if a complete unknown is the Manager of Wales as long as he's successful and I'm sure a lot of people agree. Anyone who goes to see their National side purely because the Manager made their pants wet as a player can do one. If an unknown takes us to a major Championship, not only would he become a household name in Wales, his profile would rise throughout UK, European and World football, AND, the chances he he won't have pulled out of as many Wales friendlies as Giggs or have the same dubious personal life. Medals? Appearances? Whatever, the only thing that interests me about whoever gets the job is wins.

[njdragon]

so any kid who watched giggs growing up and goes to support wales because of this can do one. Could be missing out on a potential future fanbase there.

[Tim P]

Dec 21, 2011 12:41:12 GMT njdragon said:

A better crowd & fanbase equals more money for the FAW towards resources and a more professional outfit, its also equals a better atmos - no player wants to play at empty grounds. This is how it will benefit wales (trendy)

Ok. I fundamentally disagree with this. In my opinion, having Ryan Giggs as manager will have little or no effect on crowd levels.

A winning team will. And that's it. Period.

[njdragon]

little or no effect on the crowds? fuck what odds will you give me on that trendy

[Tim P]

It isn't possible to judge though is it.

First game is going to attract attention because of the Gary Speed thing - you could have Bobby Ghoul in charge and people would turn up. After that, I maintain that it depends on results. If we lose the first five games, crowds will fall. If we win five games, crowds will increase. None of this will be due to Giggs' 'marketability' though - just whether or not he is a good manager.

[flynnfan]

...and if the FAW are so concerned with marketablity they concentrate on our players rather than the manager anyway.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't think this is a problem.

MU are 2 points behind MC going into the Christmas period with injury problems. Ferguson desparately wants to win another EPL and stop MC from winning the title. He will need his little lapdog who has served him so faithfully all these years to help him do that.

Giggs even now, if he was offered the Wales job would turn it down on his master's orders.

[welshwizard79]

Dec 22, 2011 15:49:33 GMT @baresi said:

I honestly don't think this is a problem.

MU are 2 points behind MC going into the Christmas period with injury problems. Ferguson desparately wants to win another EPL and stop MC from winning the title. He will need his little lapdog who has served him so faithfully all these years to help him do that.

Giggs even now, if he was offered the Wales job would turn it down on his master's orders.

Giggs is like Darth Vader and Fergie the Emperor Palpatine.

[Deleted]

I know most of you (quite rightly) won't care but in the light of Ferguson's crushing disappointment yesterday does anyone think that Giggs will have any further role as a player at OT apart from the Carling Cup?

Releasing him for team gb seems to be an indication that he will not.

I wonder whether we see now a period where Giggs starts sucking up to the welsh public and press (he doesn't have to try too hard with bananaman anyway) to establish his credentials for when Coleman fails? (hopefully not but my money would be that he probably will given our less than fortunate past?)

[flynnfan]

As soon as Coleman loses two games on the trot, I don't there'll be any prizes for guessing who Bananacunt will be championing to take his job...

[Deleted]

As opposed to 'ticks all the boxes' (bananaman) I think he 'licks all the boxes'.

[marsvolta]

if he plays for team GB he can forget getting the fans vote for manager.

[cymroircarn]

He is the only Man Utd player Fergie has "cleared" to play in the Olympics

[stu]

May 14, 2012 21:35:32 GMT marsvolta said:

if he plays for team GB he can forget getting the fans vote for manager.

I think the sort of "fans" that want him as manager are the ones that are either pro team gb or couldn't really care either way. They are the ones the FAW want to attract because they know the ones who would be opposed to it are the ones that would turn up either way.

[idiot]

May 14, 2012 21:37:19 GMT cymroircarn said:

He is the only Man Utd player Fergie has "cleared" to play in the Olympics

very odd (if true)

has he got another year contract at united?

[Deleted]

www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/football-in-wales/2012/05/15/ryan-giggs-named-greatest-ever-premier-league-player-91466-30973698/

Ryans Giggs named greatest ever Premier League player over 20 years.

Personally, I wouldn't argue with that. Just a shame it was his priority over his country whenever there was a clash.

[Tim P]

May 15, 2012 13:34:26 GMT @baresi said:

www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/football-in-wales/2012/05/15/ryan-giggs-named-greatest-ever-premier-league-player-91466-30973698/

Ryans Giggs named greatest ever Premier League player over 20 years.

Personally, I wouldn't argue with that. Just a shame it was his priority over his country whenever there was a clash.

It depends on what the criteria is. If you have to have played in every season, then yeah, clearly he wins. If they are talking about the best player to have played in the epl, then he wouldn't make the top 20.