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Post by cymro on Sept 13, 2019 7:21:16 GMT
There's always hope mate. Just believe. Unfortunately I can't mate. It looks like too much treading water while sinking in the sand underneath with Giggs in charge. Agreed. It's all just hope at the moment that everything will click into place overnight. This is the easiest route for us to qualify ever. There's a very good chance that 13 points from a possible 24 will see us through. We're a laughing stock if we cock it up. I always said I'd give him the qualifiers before I judge. If we aren't amongst the top 24 teams in Europe with the squad he has then he needs to go. Come on Giggsy, now's your time to deliver. Unfortunately I don't have the faith based on what I've seen so far... only hope!
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Giggs
Sept 14, 2019 10:28:36 GMT
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Sept 14, 2019 10:28:36 GMT
If he gets a point away to Slovakia il start to gain some trust in him.
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Giggs
Sept 20, 2019 7:16:12 GMT
Post by richierich333 on Sept 20, 2019 7:16:12 GMT
It's depressing to see how much we have reversed under Giggs' tenure. Watching exciting games during this international window depressed the crap out of me knowing that our manager doesn't have a clue and is way over his head. Even the exciting football we used to play has completely collapsed. All that shit about wanting us to play exciting and fast football with only 4 goals in 4 games really shows me how bad he is. Its become so bad that we are now contemplating how much we would get destroyed by newly formed Kosovo who have very little international experience. I just see zero hope for our national team in the future under Giggs even with the easiest qualification route in the tournaments history. We do not have a '15-20 goal a season man' which we cannot really blame on Giggs. To put a positive spin on this we have the best defensive record with only 4 conceded. Also apart from the Spain friendly we haven't had any pastings usually a flukey 0-1 or a 1-2. It's getting better...slowly.
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Giggs
Sept 20, 2019 8:27:36 GMT
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 20, 2019 8:27:36 GMT
It's depressing to see how much we have reversed under Giggs' tenure. Watching exciting games during this international window depressed the crap out of me knowing that our manager doesn't have a clue and is way over his head. Even the exciting football we used to play has completely collapsed. All that shit about wanting us to play exciting and fast football with only 4 goals in 4 games really shows me how bad he is. Its become so bad that we are now contemplating how much we would get destroyed by newly formed Kosovo who have very little international experience. I just see zero hope for our national team in the future under Giggs even with the easiest qualification route in the tournaments history. We do not have a '15-20 goal a season man' which we cannot really blame on Giggs. To put a positive spin on this we have the best defensive record with only 4 conceded. Also apart from the Spain friendly we haven't had any pastings usually a flukey 0-1 or a 1-2. It's getting better...slowly. It’s a good point about the defence. And actually thinking back to the goals we have conceded, all came from correctable mistakes.
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Giggs
Sept 20, 2019 9:15:15 GMT
Post by johnoster on Sept 20, 2019 9:15:15 GMT
We've played less games than everyone else though!
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Giggs
Sept 20, 2019 9:43:58 GMT
Post by richierich333 on Sept 20, 2019 9:43:58 GMT
We do not have a '15-20 goal a season man' which we cannot really blame on Giggs. To put a positive spin on this we have the best defensive record with only 4 conceded. Also apart from the Spain friendly we haven't had any pastings usually a flukey 0-1 or a 1-2. It's getting better...slowly. It’s a good point about the defence. And actually thinking back to the goals we have conceded, all came from correctable mistakes. Ironic for a top heavy squad that we are not scoring enough goals and this is where the problem is. We've missed a hell of a lot of easy chances to score recently which could be bad luck or could be a deeper issue. If we keep creating chances this should naturally sort itself out.
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Post by alarch on Sept 20, 2019 10:46:46 GMT
It’s a good point about the defence. And actually thinking back to the goals we have conceded, all came from correctable mistakes. Ironic for a top heavy squad that we are not scoring enough goals and this is where the problem is. We've missed a hell of a lot of easy chances to score recently which could be bad luck or could be a deeper issue. If we keep creating chances this should naturally sort itself out. I think it's a combination of both. If you think of Bale's misses against Hungary and Belarus - very unusual for him. Also he's not contributing at all from free kicks, whereas this was a major asset for us in the Euro 2016 campaign. It's not just Bale - and a lot's down to fine margins - Wilson hitting the inside of the post against Belarus, Allen's goalbound shot flicking off the heel of a defender. Contrast that with the ROI game at home where our finishing was extremely clinical. But apart from a loss of a clinical edge we're not creating enough chances, and that, to me, is because of the difficulty we've had in getting quality, controlled possession from the middle to the final third.
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Post by iot on Oct 5, 2019 22:12:35 GMT
I really don't want to have another dig at Giggs, but he came out with the same poor excuse again for the azerbaijan performance in the article below. He's basically saying that the performance was dysfunctional because he only had a couple of days training to get his style of play across. I'm sorry but how does he explain that a) all other international managers are in the same boat; b) he had several weeks before the croatia/hungary games and they were also terrible performances; and c) he's had a year and a half and 10+ preparation games to get his style of play across! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49935789"A lot of the criticism was aimed at my style of play after Azerbaijan. But you don't know until the Sunday night who you're going to have. You have a perfect scenario of how you want to play and the style of play. "It's about fitting all those players in, but also you have two or three days, or two days and one training session sometimes, to work on stuff." Is he doing enough inbetween international breaks to keep in touch with players? I know other international managers will send scout reports on opposing players and key things to get across in preparation for a game weeks in advance - does giggs do any of that. From that article, he makes it sound like the only prep he gets done, or at least with the players, is a day or two before the game. It comes across as being really amateurish
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Post by alarch on Oct 6, 2019 15:19:22 GMT
Reading those comments of Giggs' one can only despair. Talk of incoherent, self-contradictory nonsense.
Take this quote: "So to change the whole system completely is very difficult. But we look at each game differently, the players available and how we can get a result." I agree that to change the whole system completely is very difficult. So, why then go to say that "we look at each game differently, the players available and how we can get a result" - because that clearly implies that the "system" is expedient to player availability.
Then there's this: "I have to take it all into consideration… because you can't play four wingers or three number tens. We're very blessed in those positions but it's finding the right balance." Yet Giggs fielded four very attacking players from the off, in Bale, Lawrence, James and Wilson, with Lawrence playing as a number 9, a role we know he's ill-suited to, and Wilson as a 10, even though he plays primarily out wide, with a natural 10, in Williams available.
The evidence of that Azerbaijan game starting eleven (and it's not the only game) suggests that Giggs is less concerned about adopting a coherent system, and more interested in fitting in the best eleven players on paper. Perhaps with the selection and setup against Belarus, and the much improved performance, the penny has finally dropped - that with the limited time he has to get across his ideas he has to put the system first, and select to that system.
One of the main features of our successful Euro 2016 campaign was how Coleman was willing to consistently pick several players whose playing status was questionable - in Gunter, Ledley and HRK in particular - but who were able to consistently perform the tasks they were given in the various systems we adopted. Yes we need a plan b, and even a plan c - which we had during that campaign, but we really need to commit to a principal formation and select players that fit that formation. If that means leaving some star players on the bench, and fielding players of modest achievement at club level, then so be it.
My biggest hope for the Slovkia match is that player availability is such that not even Giggs can mess things up - with quality round pegs available for round holes.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 6, 2019 16:09:12 GMT
Reading those comments of Giggs' one can only despair. Talk of incoherent, self-contradictory nonsense. Take this quote: "So to change the whole system completely is very difficult. But we look at each game differently, the players available and how we can get a result." I agree that to change the whole system completely is very difficult. So, why then go to say that "we look at each game differently, the players available and how we can get a result" - because that clearly implies that the "system" is expedient to player availability. Then there's this: "I have to take it all into consideration… because you can't play four wingers or three number tens. We're very blessed in those positions but it's finding the right balance." Yet Giggs fielded four very attacking players from the off, in Bale, Lawrence, James and Wilson, with Lawrence playing as a number 9, a role we know he's ill-suited to, and Wilson as a 10, even though he plays primarily out wide, with a natural 10, in Williams available. The evidence of that Azerbaijan game starting eleven (and it's not the only game) suggests that Giggs is less concerned about adopting a coherent system, and more interested in fitting in the best eleven players on paper. Perhaps with the selection and setup against Belarus, and the much improved performance, the penny has finally dropped - that with the limited time he has to get across his ideas he has to put the system first, and select to that system. One of the main features of our successful Euro 2016 campaign was how Coleman was willing to consistently pick several players whose playing status was questionable - in Gunter, Ledley and HRK in particular - but who were able to consistently perform the tasks they were given in the various systems we adopted. Yes we need a plan b, and even a plan c - which we had during that campaign, but we really need to commit to a principal formation and select players that fit that formation. If that means leaving some star players on the bench, and fielding players of modest achievement at club level, then so be it. My biggest hope for the Slovkia match is that player availability is such that not even Giggs can mess things up - with quality round pegs available for round holes. We need a cogent plan 'A' first before 'B' and 'C'.
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Post by alarch on Oct 6, 2019 16:22:02 GMT
Exactly. Is it really too much to ask?
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 6, 2019 21:04:07 GMT
I hate that people see this thread as an opportunity to bash Giggs whenever they can. Can't there be a separate 'I hate Ryan Giggs' thread where everyone who dislikes him can share their sentiments?
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Giggs
Oct 6, 2019 21:57:36 GMT
Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 6, 2019 21:57:36 GMT
I hate that people see this thread as an opportunity to bash Giggs whenever they can. Can't there be a separate 'I hate Ryan Giggs' thread where everyone who dislikes him can share their sentiments? But then where's the debate?
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Giggs
Oct 6, 2019 22:35:11 GMT
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 6, 2019 22:35:11 GMT
I hate that people see this thread as an opportunity to bash Giggs whenever they can. Can't there be a separate 'I hate Ryan Giggs' thread where everyone who dislikes him can share their sentiments? But then where's the debate? Fair point I suppose. Just feels like the initial spirit of the thread has been lost.
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Post by alarch on Oct 6, 2019 23:52:47 GMT
I hate that people see this thread as an opportunity to bash Giggs whenever they can. Can't there be a separate 'I hate Ryan Giggs' thread where everyone who dislikes him can share their sentiments? I really want to believe in Giggs, and I'm really looking for him to come out with something that gives me confidence, but he consistently comes out with really poor justifications for his decisions. This has nothing to do with "hating" Ryan Giggs - I'm simply assessing his comments on their merits. If you agree with his comments just say so. The best case scenario with Giggs is that he's just a very poor communicator, and that he has far more acumen than he's suggesting in his media comments. Not a great best case scenario for sure, but one that allows for some hope that he does better work behind the scenes than his public utterances hint at. To cut Giggs some slack it's certainly true that the poor performance against Azerbaijan was down to some unpredictably poor performances from some players, notably Taylor and Hennessey. No one can blame Giggs for selecting either given the lack of fit options. And in the positive column we had that performance against ROI - with round pegs in round holes, and plenty of quality players fit and firing. With a bit of luck we won't be too far off such a scenario out in Slovakia. I live in hope.
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Giggs
Oct 6, 2019 23:54:28 GMT
Post by alarch on Oct 6, 2019 23:54:28 GMT
But then where's the debate? Fair point I suppose. Just feels like the initial spirit of the thread has been lost.
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Giggs
Oct 7, 2019 8:33:51 GMT
Post by johnoster on Oct 7, 2019 8:33:51 GMT
To play devils advocate for Giggs.
It is difficult as a new(ish) manager to get your thoughts across coherently. There was a chat with James Collins on EJFOF recently where they talked about the coaching courses and how there was a whole section about just that.
I've recently taken up coaching at amateur level, and I initially found that I knew what I wanted to say in my talks, but it came out as basically "go out there and play, get stuck in, you all know what you're doing."
This wasn't what I wanted to say, in fact I had a proper tactical plan. But my mind went blank and I came out with simplistic nonsense.
Watching that infamous video of Giggs Man Utd team talk makes me hope, that he actually is just struggling to get his thoughts across due to the pressure. And I hope that he's improving on this.
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Post by alarch on Oct 13, 2019 22:18:58 GMT
Giggs has gone half-way to redeeming himself. Tactically, he's got things pretty much spot on in the last couple of games. 4-4-1-1 away to Slovakia, 4-1-4-1 tonight - limiting Croatia to very few opportunities. The fact that we were unable to go on and win it is down to player availability (Brooks, Ramsey and Mepham would have all played if available), player impairment (most notably Ampadu, but also Bale and Williams), and some indifferent performances individually and collectively in possession. Tactically, things worked well.
I say he's gone half-way to redeeming himself because he continues to make dodgy rookie selections. Lockyer should have shown Brekalo down the line for the opener, and was then too easily outpaced. He then played Perisic on for the wonder Hennessey save (interesting that those slagging Hennessey off for the opener choose to ignore his World class save from that header, not to mention his save against Slovkia). But more than that I got kittens every time he got the ball - he was nearly dispossessed on so many occasions it was untrue. Like James Lawrence he's not ready for international football and I doubt he ever will be. Ashley Williams should have played.
So, at least Giggs seems to have learned to respect the quality of the opposition and set up accordingly - but he needs to be a lot less trusting of rookie talent in defence. It's as if he doesn't think experience counts for anything.
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Giggs
Oct 13, 2019 22:45:48 GMT
Post by pendragon on Oct 13, 2019 22:45:48 GMT
Giggs has gone half-way to redeeming himself. Tactically, he's got things pretty much spot on in the last couple of games. 4-4-1-1 away to Slovakia, 4-1-4-1 tonight - limiting Croatia to very few opportunities. The fact that we were unable to go on and win it is down to player availability (Brooks, Ramsey and Mepham would have all played if available). I certainly agree, although prior to the substitutions of Ethan, Johnny and to a lesser degree, Kiefer Moore, I felt we could still have had just about enough in the tank to finish the job. But although the passing was still rather suspect at times, on the whole, I was very impressed with our work rate, particularly defensively.
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Post by toshfan on Oct 13, 2019 22:58:57 GMT
One thing is certain. Ryan Giggs has the dressing room. That matters!
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Giggs
Oct 14, 2019 1:07:33 GMT
via mobile
toshfan likes this
Post by cadno on Oct 14, 2019 1:07:33 GMT
One thing is certain. Ryan Giggs has the dressing room. That matters! I agree, except perhaps for some of the older heads, Ash, King, Vokes, Gunts... Ledley if you count him. But the effort was there on the pitch. Strange call starting Lockyer ahead of Williams tonight.
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Giggs
Oct 14, 2019 8:58:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by cadno on Oct 14, 2019 8:58:56 GMT
We were meant to be scoring more goals and creating more opportunities under Giggs! I'd like to see the stats?
In all fairness though, he hasn't had some important players available - Ramsey and Brooks mainly.
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vader
steve evans
Posts: 29
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Post by vader on Oct 14, 2019 9:07:02 GMT
Seems to have taken a very pragmatic approach in these last two games and got some decent results. Croatia were very clearly superior technically than us and with a gulf in experience in key areas, so coming back to earn a draw was good stuff. I think he may continue with that approach for the next two qualifiers to hopefully get us over the line.
Hungary and Azer should prove much less of a threat to our defence so even if we only nick a goal or two it should be enough.
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Post by welshiron on Oct 14, 2019 10:11:48 GMT
Results have been poor this campaign
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 14, 2019 10:30:30 GMT
The jury is still very much out for me. Some improvement in the last couple of games.
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Post by alarch on Oct 14, 2019 10:37:08 GMT
The jury is still very much out for me. Some improvement in the last couple of games. I agree, but to progress from utter despair at Giggs' ineptitude to thinking that he may have some sort of tactical nous is a massive turnaround in my book. At least it gives us legitimate hope going forwards. I'm easily pleased..
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Post by arfonprinceofwales on Oct 14, 2019 10:54:15 GMT
The shagmeister is not getting enough credit for his faith in the younger players.
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2019 10:04:23 GMT
Post by johnoster on Oct 15, 2019 10:04:23 GMT
With the attacking talent we have, we should be scoring more than 6 goals in 6 games.
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2019 10:27:26 GMT
iot likes this
Post by texan on Oct 15, 2019 10:27:26 GMT
According to Ben Davies Wales are a 'proper team' again: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50047652Bit of a telling quote that if you ask me, as said above, perhaps some of the older heads weren't 'feeling it' either. However Sunday may well have been the watershed moment they all needed to finally bind the kids and the experienced heads together. Maybe that essential element of trust is starting to grow now amongst them, what odds we'll now start to see a more rapid improvement as a cohesive unit? I certainly hope so!
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2019 11:24:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 15, 2019 11:24:02 GMT
According to Ben Davies Wales are a 'proper team' again: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50047652Bit of a telling quote that if you ask me, as said above, perhaps some of the older heads weren't 'feeling it' either. However Sunday may well have been the watershed moment they all needed to finally bind the kids and the experienced heads together. Maybe that essential element of trust is starting to grow now amongst them, what odds we'll now start to see a more rapid improvement as a cohesive unit? I certainly hope so! I think it's bound to take time with this many changes to the squad. Takes a little while to build the connections.
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