|
Giggs
Sept 8, 2019 1:07:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by insertname on Sept 8, 2019 1:07:05 GMT
It’s not a guarantee but qualifying for Euro tournaments by finishing in the top two out of five should be a realistic expectation. Especially with this crop of players. In truth yes.
I would have expected you to have qualified for WC2018 because of the quality of players you had BUT hang over from Euro's was the key here.
You may get another qualifying campaign out of Bale but even then it is tight.
Not so much a hangover, we just got found out and didn’t progress/adapt our style. Our run to the semi of the Euros was built on a solid defence and nicking goals, over the tournament we built up momentum by playing regularly and defied our reputation by scoring a few goals in the process, however the tournament came to an end, we lost the “well oiled machine” factor of a team that was playing well and confident in a tournament and started making defensive errors. We were in a position where we couldn’t afford to make those errors because we don’t score enough goals to go toe to toe and thus winning positions turned into draws and handicapped our campaign. I maintain that playing for a draw at your place was criminal as it pretty much resigned us to having to win all four of our last games (unless we got an unlikely win in Serbia). All in all given that it was the swan song of the Euros squad we had enough about us to qualify, if only we had been made better decisions at crucial points. We left ourselves too much to do in the end, after looking at this campaign it makes me all the more frustrated that we never seized the day while the chance was there, we might not get that chance for a long while :/
|
|
|
Post by gwernybwch on Sept 8, 2019 9:19:58 GMT
when Chris Coleman was appointed he had a terrible record as a manager and he went on to have a terrible record for a while as Welsh Manager. Then it went a bit well and then it went really well and then it went a bit bad then he left to further his career which ended his career. my point is when the FAW appointed Coleman they got lucky, really lucky and i supported that. Their history and our history coincicedes with what we are a small nation with limited resources and we hit the jackpot once. we've a decent structure and players now but that doesn't mean we will ever reach the heights we did in 2016. Of course its not impossible but its not a gaurantee. I see the history of recent Welsh international football totally different. We had one piece of luck when a (then) excellent Manager, who had previously totally overhauled the development scheme at Real Sociedad was Welsh and he was prepared to do the same again, but for the wages that the FAW were offering. He and his short-arsed mate set about changing the structure of Welsh football so that there was a flow of international players from under 21's to senior level and those players were well seasoned by the time they played at the senior level. After many years he left and a former Captain was appointed as Manager. He started to set them up to play as a team. He had a Dutch mate who was cutting edge on sports science. The second piece of luck is that he had another mate who was also willing to work tirelessly for Welsh football. Together they started to put in place a grass roots development scheme for the entirety of Welsh football. Then tragedy hit. And it hit hard. Fortunately the Managers Welsh mate stayed on and continued with their great ground work. A new manager took over, but it took a long time for all to get over that tragedy. The new manager was a great communicator and motivator but not great at tactics. Just when it seemed that all that great work of the previous 15 years had been lost, the Manager listened to the Welsh blokes ideas on tactics and they came up with a new system. We now had core group of very good players and a group of middling players, all of which had now played together for years. We also had a few decent players that were choosing to play for Wales. Oh, and we had one of the best players in the World. They understood the system. The system together with the Manager's motivation worked well. Remarkably well in fact. And we achieved something which no other small country had achieved at a major tournament. The grass roots was working so well that really good kids were now choosing to play for Wales. The players understood the system, trouble was our opponents figured out the system as well. And the Manager stayed loyal to his players and just couldn't figure out a new system. That Manager then left. Then our ‘luck’ failed us. There was a very good ex-player. He had never been particularly arsed about the country and had little previous experience fancied having a go at being the Manager. He was supported by a few people who make a living from talking and writing about him. He was appointed and got rid of a lot of the people that had made the organisation successful and hired some of his mates. These people weren’t particularly arsed about the Country either. He started to play some of the really good younger players that were coming through. The Manager continued to show that he wasn’t particularly arsed about the country. He particularly showed that he wasn’t particularly experienced in being a Manager. The person that had put in place the grass roots scheme decided that he had enough and left. The position that we were in 2016 wasn’t a series of happy coincidences, it was because we have a series of people who ‘the harder they worked, the luckier they got’. Things are still in place enough for us not only to hit the standards to 2016, but to hit them on a continuous basis and who knows - maybe even exceed them. We just need somebody that has a little understanding of tactics and motivation to get these 11 excellent footballers to play together as a team.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 8, 2019 13:39:01 GMT
Post by oscardelta on Sept 8, 2019 13:39:01 GMT
Seriously?! FFS, I really wouldn’t want to face a rejuvenated ROI after the WC debacle
Not sure we that rejuvenated. We have no proven goalscorer and this is costing us.
|
|
|
Post by oscardelta on Sept 8, 2019 13:45:54 GMT
I see the history of recent Welsh international football totally different. We had one piece of luck when a (then) excellent Manager, who had previously totally overhauled the development scheme at Real Sociedad was Welsh and he was prepared to do the same again, but for the wages that the FAW were offering. He and his short-arsed mate set about changing the structure of Welsh football so that there was a flow of international players from under 21's to senior level and those players were well seasoned by the time they played at the senior level. After many years he left and a former Captain was appointed as Manager. He started to set them up to play as a team. He had a Dutch mate who was cutting edge on sports science. The second piece of luck is that he had another mate who was also willing to work tirelessly for Welsh football. Together they started to put in place a grass roots development scheme for the entirety of Welsh football. Then tragedy hit. And it hit hard. Fortunately the Managers Welsh mate stayed on and continued with their great ground work. A new manager took over, but it took a long time for all to get over that tragedy. The new manager was a great communicator and motivator but not great at tactics. Just when it seemed that all that great work of the previous 15 years had been lost, the Manager listened to the Welsh blokes ideas on tactics and they came up with a new system. We now had core group of very good players and a group of middling players, all of which had now played together for years. We also had a few decent players that were choosing to play for Wales. Oh, and we had one of the best players in the World. They understood the system. The system together with the Manager's motivation worked well. Remarkably well in fact. And we achieved something which no other small country had achieved at a major tournament. The grass roots was working so well that really good kids were now choosing to play for Wales. The players understood the system, trouble was our opponents figured out the system as well. And the Manager stayed loyal to his players and just couldn't figure out a new system. That Manager then left. Then our ‘luck’ failed us. There was a very good ex-player. He had never been particularly arsed about the country and had little previous experience fancied having a go at being the Manager. He was supported by a few people who make a living from talking and writing about him. He was appointed and got rid of a lot of the people that had made the organisation successful and hired some of his mates. These people weren’t particularly arsed about the Country either. He started to play some of the really good younger players that were coming through. The Manager continued to show that he wasn’t particularly arsed about the country. He particularly showed that he wasn’t particularly experienced in being a Manager. The person that had put in place the grass roots scheme decided that he had enough and left. The position that we were in 2016 wasn’t a series of happy coincidences, it was because we have a series of people who ‘the harder they worked, the luckier they got’. Things are still in place enough for us not only to hit the standards to 2016, but to hit them on a continuous basis and who knows - maybe even exceed them. We just need somebody that has a little understanding of tactics and motivation to get these 11 excellent footballers to play together as a team. I can go along with some of that.
Players playing together underage know who their team mates are. It is no surprise that Duff / Keane (robbie) etc all played together at underage and wer excellent. When they progressed into full squad they kept that cohesion along with others coming in. the spine of the team knew each other.
It is why the ROI strategy of Stephen Kenny as under 21 I think will pay dividends eventually. He did better than OK with Dundalk in Europe and he will bring under age through to full interntional.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 9, 2019 8:59:15 GMT
Post by kingstonred on Sept 9, 2019 8:59:15 GMT
The anti-Giggs brigade is boring me. Giggs is the manager, and Giggs will be the manager for at LEAST this campaign, and probably the World Cup Qualifiers as well. Therefore you can all continue to bitch and moan about him, creating a toxic atmosphere between the fans, and in doing so contribute to potentially wasting the last two qualifying campaigns that Bale, Ramsey, Allen etc will ever play in, OR you can get behind the boys! I feel like Giggs cannot win.
"When Giggs played Bale up front, everyone moaned he wasn't an out and out number 9 and should be played out wide" Giggs plays him out wide, and everyone says he should be played up front. Our only striker, Sam Vokes, can't even get into the side 24th in the Championship!
"We should have played a number 10 rather than 4 attackers" Wilson was deployed in the 10 role, but was totally anonymous.
Going into Friday's game, half our team hadn't even played a 90 minutes this season, and we're expecting to tear Azerbaijan apart. 3 points, happy days, qualification still in our own hands. How many times in the 90s, 00s and early 10s was qualification already over by the halfway stage! Keep the faith, get behind the team and the manager (even if you don't like him) because it's the best chance we've got of qualifying!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 9, 2019 9:30:02 GMT
The anti-Giggs brigade is boring me. Giggs is the manager, and Giggs will be the manager for at LEAST this campaign, and probably the World Cup Qualifiers as well. Therefore you can all continue to bitch and moan about him, creating a toxic atmosphere between the fans, and in doing so contribute to potentially wasting the last two qualifying campaigns that Bale, Ramsey, Allen etc will ever play in, OR you can get behind the boys! I feel like Giggs cannot win. "When Giggs played Bale up front, everyone moaned he wasn't an out and out number 9 and should be played out wide" Giggs plays him out wide, and everyone says he should be played up front. Our only striker, Sam Vokes, can't even get into the side 24th in the Championship! "We should have played a number 10 rather than 4 attackers" Wilson was deployed in the 10 role, but was totally anonymous. Going into Friday's game, half our team hadn't even played a 90 minutes this season, and we're expecting to tear Azerbaijan apart. 3 points, happy days, qualification still in our own hands. How many times in the 90s, 00s and early 10s was qualification already over by the halfway stage! Keep the faith, get behind the team and the manager (even if you don't like him) because it's the best chance we've got of qualifying!!!!! The anti-Sam Vokes brigade is really boring me. If Bale and Lawrence get injured, he might start up front so get behind the lad as he'll be the best chance we've got of qualifying!!!!!
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 9, 2019 9:32:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by cadno on Sept 9, 2019 9:32:35 GMT
The anti-Giggs brigade is boring me. Giggs is the manager, and Giggs will be the manager for at LEAST this campaign, and probably the World Cup Qualifiers as well. Therefore you can all continue to bitch and moan about him, creating a toxic atmosphere between the fans, and in doing so contribute to potentially wasting the last two qualifying campaigns that Bale, Ramsey, Allen etc will ever play in, OR you can get behind the boys! I feel like Giggs cannot win. "When Giggs played Bale up front, everyone moaned he wasn't an out and out number 9 and should be played out wide" Giggs plays him out wide, and everyone says he should be played up front. Our only striker, Sam Vokes, can't even get into the side 24th in the Championship! "We should have played a number 10 rather than 4 attackers" Wilson was deployed in the 10 role, but was totally anonymous. Going into Friday's game, half our team hadn't even played a 90 minutes this season, and we're expecting to tear Azerbaijan apart. 3 points, happy days, qualification still in our own hands. How many times in the 90s, 00s and early 10s was qualification already over by the halfway stage! Keep the faith, get behind the team and the manager (even if you don't like him) because it's the best chance we've got of qualifying!!!!! Actually only our keeper and ampadu haďnt played 90 mins. Every other player that started have been regulars, it was part of the managers reasoning for that line up. I couldn't care less if Vokes can't get into Stoke's team, he should have started the other night, as should J.Williams.
|
|
|
Post by dai on Sept 9, 2019 9:39:29 GMT
A lot of people like myself were pro Giggs before this qualifying campaign, but cracks were beginning to show during the nations league and friendlies. Throw in Osian Roberts quitting after almost a decade with the Welsh set up, and it's all looking like the Welsh setup is probably an unhappy camp.
It's not Giggs' fault he was appointed, but the recent results are down to him. I'd also blame the FAW on a whole for dragging us backwards through his appointment.
|
|
|
Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 9, 2019 10:10:20 GMT
I want Giggs to succeed more than anything, and celebrated that goal on Friday like the massively important goal it was. He and the team will have my backing while he's in charge, but that doesn't mean I have confidence in him to get it right.
|
|
|
Post by zenith on Sept 9, 2019 10:25:23 GMT
I spotted this last night, worrying
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 9, 2019 10:28:02 GMT
Post by dai on Sept 9, 2019 10:28:02 GMT
For some reason my phone wont play some twitter vids, what does he say?
Edit, managed to watch it. It's shocking, but I'm not surprised - he's really not in this is he? And there's some calling for people to get off his back?
|
|
|
Post by zenith on Sept 9, 2019 10:51:08 GMT
For some reason my phone wont play some twitter vids, what does he say? Edit, managed to watch it. It's shocking, but I'm not surprised - he's really not in this is he? And there's some calling for people to get off his back? I caught Page out on a similar thing last year about Mitchell Clark. It seems to be a recurring theme and it's very worrying.
|
|
|
Post by dragonsoccer on Sept 9, 2019 11:01:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Sept 9, 2019 11:33:54 GMT
He's also had a pop at the fans for expecting "too much" against Azerbaijan, claims fans only "remember the good times". He says "They haven't watched Croatia v Azerbiajan, I have", conveniently forgets to mention Hungary's comfortable 3-1 away win and Slovakia's 5-1 mauling of those same opponents
He really doesn't help himself
|
|
|
Post by texan on Sept 9, 2019 11:35:59 GMT
For some reason my phone wont play some twitter vids, what does he say? Edit, managed to watch it. It's shocking, but I'm not surprised - he's really not in this is he? And there's some calling for people to get off his back? I'm all for getting behind the team/manager etc, its vital he's given time. But there comes a point during all tenures when you can begin to tell 'this is probably not going to happen'. For nearly a decade there's been a definite progression pathway to Wales' teams, where you could tell what they were trying to achieve and where they were eventually trying to get to. A number of times the results didn't match up to expectations, however in every match there was always elements you could pick apart and say "they've progressed here" in their approach shape/play or "that bit's been sorted since previous games", you could see the jigsaw taking shape...even in the face of negative results. Yes it mostly came in flashes of a phase here and there or a patch of 10 mins or so in every 30 where we outperformed the opposition early on under Speed (or even, to be fair, late in Toshack's tenure), but with each passing match you could always see an improvement somewhere within the side that gave you confidence that we were generally on the right track. Under Giggs this has stopped. We were a very good passing side in early 2018 that needed to tighten up that defence a little, speed up our passing play and inject a little more dynamism going forward (which was waiting in the wings in the shape of our youth players). We were ripe for just a little tweaking here and there to enable us to evolve further as a side. Early on under Giggs I thought that's what he was doing, our early shape was promising with very pleasing attacking displays, but as time's worn on we've become more ragged and previously solid areas of our play has disintegrated, to the extent that now even some of our older heads are playing like strangers! Its evident he's been doing a lot more than tweaking. From where I'm sitting, I see a manager that inherited a bloody good side with the tools capable of making it a bloody great side with relatively minor adjustments. 20 months on and we're now a ragged, error-strewn side full of individuals and its virtually impossible to see any visible or track-able progress from match to match. Indeed, looking on his matches as a whole I have no idea where he wants to take this side or what he's attempting to achieve long-term. My worry is that he's had 20 months and we've deteriorated to where we are now, he's lost Roberts and gained Page, yet some fans feel he'll turn it around? How? What epiphany is he going to get within the next month that he wouldn't already have had in the last 20? I still want him to succeed as it means Wales will succeed, but currently I'm not seeing anything to even suggest he's capable of doing so.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 9, 2019 11:36:47 GMT
Post by zenith on Sept 9, 2019 11:36:47 GMT
He's also had a pop at the fans for expecting "too much" against Azerbaijan, claims fans only "remember the good times". He says "They haven't watched Croatia v Azerbiajan, I have", conveniently forgets to mention Hungary's comfortable 3-1 away win and Slovakia's 5-1 mauling of those same opponents He really doesn't help himself When people word things like that it's usually in defence of the only thing they have to back themselves up, lol.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 9, 2019 11:41:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by conwy10 on Sept 9, 2019 11:41:46 GMT
He's also had a pop at the fans for expecting "too much" against Azerbaijan, claims fans only "remember the good times". He says "They haven't watched Croatia v Azerbiajan, I have", conveniently forgets to mention Hungary's comfortable 3-1 away win and Slovakia's 5-1 mauling of those same opponents He really doesn't help himself Might have been just talk but didn’t he say he was going to go at Azerbaijan? Maybe he should have lowered expectations before the match if he knew he couldn’t deliver.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 9, 2019 11:47:22 GMT
Post by alarch on Sept 9, 2019 11:47:22 GMT
For some reason my phone wont play some twitter vids, what does he say? Edit, managed to watch it. It's shocking, but I'm not surprised - he's really not in this is he? And there's some calling for people to get off his back? I'm all for getting behind the team/manager etc, its vital he's given time. But there comes a point during all tenures when you can begin to tell 'this is probably not going to happen'. For nearly a decade there's been a definite progression pathway to Wales' teams, where you could tell what they were trying to achieve and where they were eventually trying to get to. A number of times the results didn't match up to expectations, however in every match there was always elements you could pick apart and say "they've progressed here" in their approach shape/play or "that bit's been sorted since previous games", you could see the jigsaw taking shape...even in the face of negative results. Yes it mostly came in flashes of a phase here and there or a patch of 10 mins or so in every 30 where we outperformed the opposition early on under Speed (or even, to be fair, late in Toshack's tenure), but with each passing match you could always see an improvement somewhere within the side that gave you confidence that we were generally on the right track. Under Giggs this has stopped. We were a very good passing side in early 2018 that needed to tighten up that defence a little, speed up our passing play and inject a little more dynamism going forward (which was waiting in the wings in the shape of our youth players). We were ripe for just a little tweaking here and there to enable us to evolve further as a side. Early on under Giggs I thought that's what he was doing, our early shape was promising with very pleasing attacking displays, but as time's worn on we've become more ragged and previously solid areas of our play has disintegrated, to the extent that now even some of our older heads are playing like strangers! Its evident he's been doing a lot more than tweaking. From where I'm sitting, I see a manager that inherited a bloody good side with the tools capable of making it a bloody great side with relatively minor adjustments. 20 months on and we're now a ragged, error-strewn side full of individuals and its virtually impossible to see any visible or track-able progress from match to match. Indeed, looking on his matches as a whole I have no idea where he wants to take this side or what he's attempting to achieve long-term. My worry is that he's had 20 months and we've deteriorated to where we are now, he's lost Roberts and gained Page, yet some fans feel he'll turn it around? How? What epiphany is he going to get within the next month that he wouldn't already have had in the last 20? I still want him to succeed as it means Wales will succeed, but currently I'm not seeing anything to even suggest he's capable of doing so. Beautifully put. And yet you just know that Wales Online and whatever limited punditry that's out there (including the otherwise enjoyable EJFOF) will come up with weak excuses and knocking down straw men arguments to present the fan base as a bunch of ignorant oiks.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 9, 2019 17:04:55 GMT
Post by gimli on Sept 9, 2019 17:04:55 GMT
I'm all for getting behind the team/manager etc, its vital he's given time. But there comes a point during all tenures when you can begin to tell 'this is probably not going to happen'. For nearly a decade there's been a definite progression pathway to Wales' teams, where you could tell what they were trying to achieve and where they were eventually trying to get to. A number of times the results didn't match up to expectations, however in every match there was always elements you could pick apart and say "they've progressed here" in their approach shape/play or "that bit's been sorted since previous games", you could see the jigsaw taking shape...even in the face of negative results. Yes it mostly came in flashes of a phase here and there or a patch of 10 mins or so in every 30 where we outperformed the opposition early on under Speed (or even, to be fair, late in Toshack's tenure), but with each passing match you could always see an improvement somewhere within the side that gave you confidence that we were generally on the right track. Under Giggs this has stopped. We were a very good passing side in early 2018 that needed to tighten up that defence a little, speed up our passing play and inject a little more dynamism going forward (which was waiting in the wings in the shape of our youth players). We were ripe for just a little tweaking here and there to enable us to evolve further as a side. Early on under Giggs I thought that's what he was doing, our early shape was promising with very pleasing attacking displays, but as time's worn on we've become more ragged and previously solid areas of our play has disintegrated, to the extent that now even some of our older heads are playing like strangers! Its evident he's been doing a lot more than tweaking. From where I'm sitting, I see a manager that inherited a bloody good side with the tools capable of making it a bloody great side with relatively minor adjustments. 20 months on and we're now a ragged, error-strewn side full of individuals and its virtually impossible to see any visible or track-able progress from match to match. Indeed, looking on his matches as a whole I have no idea where he wants to take this side or what he's attempting to achieve long-term. My worry is that he's had 20 months and we've deteriorated to where we are now, he's lost Roberts and gained Page, yet some fans feel he'll turn it around? How? What epiphany is he going to get within the next month that he wouldn't already have had in the last 20? I still want him to succeed as it means Wales will succeed, but currently I'm not seeing anything to even suggest he's capable of doing so. Beautifully put. And yet you just know that Wales Online and whatever limited punditry that's out there ( including the otherwise enjoyable EJFOF) will come up with weak excuses and knocking down straw men arguments to present the fan base as a bunch of ignorant oiks. EJFOF has been pretty blatantly anti-Giggs from the beginning to be fair - especially Gabs. The only time they've been more supportive of him is when he was a guest and he fed them a plate of encouraging chat about his ideas and plans that, predictably, turned out to be complete bullshit in the end.
|
|
|
Post by manulike on Sept 9, 2019 22:24:46 GMT
... #YesWeCan ;-)
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 10, 2019 0:41:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by quetzal on Sept 10, 2019 0:41:06 GMT
My heart sank before Azerbaijan game with James, T Lawrence, Bale and Wilson all starting. Looks unbalanced. I wonder what’s going through Giggs and the coaches minds on that one
|
|
|
Post by gwernybwch on Sept 10, 2019 5:41:42 GMT
My heart sank before Azerbaijan game with James, T Lawrence, Bale and Wilson all starting. Looks unbalanced. I wonder what’s going through Giggs and the coaches minds on that one With him starting Moore up front I can start to see that there is some glimmer of a plan. He first started off with "I'll just put my best forward players on the pitch and we will blow them away and win" i.e. Ireland (h). He has since realised that approach isn't always going to win matches. Now he has realised that he has three of the quickest wingers in the world in James, Brooks and Bale. And he is going to base his plan around these three wingers. If one isn't available, he plans to just stick Bale somewhere else and use Wilson as a like for like replacement. Trouble is he needs a centre forward for those fantastic wingers to feed into. Thought process: "Will give Tyler Roberts a go, he is quick enough. Hmm, that didn't really work out, he isn't really an out and out centre forward. Will try Vokes. Clearly not quick enough to be box when we break forward. Will try Bale in centre forward. He missed a sitter against Hungary. Not using him there again. Give Tom Lawrence a try, I suppose. Well that looked plain daft. The only one who is left is Moore". And you never know, with Moore up front that might just work.....
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 10, 2019 13:19:27 GMT
Post by johnoster on Sept 10, 2019 13:19:27 GMT
Brooks isn't an out and out winger, and he's definitely not one of the fastest players in the world!
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 10, 2019 13:25:21 GMT
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 10, 2019 13:25:21 GMT
Brooks isn't an out and out winger, and he's definitely not one of the fastest players in the world! I’d say his best position is on the right wing. And he isn’t one of the fastest in the world, but he is very very quick. Surprised me watching him play live against Denmark with how quick he was.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 10, 2019 13:27:47 GMT
Post by dai on Sept 10, 2019 13:27:47 GMT
Brooks isn't an out and out winger, and he's definitely not one of the fastest players in the world! He's more than capable of playing in that position, and he's faster than Wilson, Bale and Lawrence. I would argue James and Lawrence are the only true wingers we have atm though. On a good enough level that it is.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 10, 2019 13:59:35 GMT
Post by johnoster on Sept 10, 2019 13:59:35 GMT
Football isn't played with traditional wingers anymore.
If Giggs was just starting out now, he'd likely start on the right.
Brooks is an inside forward.
|
|
|
Post by iantov on Sept 11, 2019 19:37:42 GMT
For some reason my phone wont play some twitter vids, what does he say? Edit, managed to watch it. It's shocking, but I'm not surprised - he's really not in this is he? And there's some calling for people to get off his back? I'm all for getting behind the team/manager etc, its vital he's given time. But there comes a point during all tenures when you can begin to tell 'this is probably not going to happen'. For nearly a decade there's been a definite progression pathway to Wales' teams, where you could tell what they were trying to achieve and where they were eventually trying to get to. A number of times the results didn't match up to expectations, however in every match there was always elements you could pick apart and say "they've progressed here" in their approach shape/play or "that bit's been sorted since previous games", you could see the jigsaw taking shape...even in the face of negative results. Yes it mostly came in flashes of a phase here and there or a patch of 10 mins or so in every 30 where we outperformed the opposition early on under Speed (or even, to be fair, late in Toshack's tenure), but with each passing match you could always see an improvement somewhere within the side that gave you confidence that we were generally on the right track. Under Giggs this has stopped. We were a very good passing side in early 2018 that needed to tighten up that defence a little, speed up our passing play and inject a little more dynamism going forward (which was waiting in the wings in the shape of our youth players). We were ripe for just a little tweaking here and there to enable us to evolve further as a side. Early on under Giggs I thought that's what he was doing, our early shape was promising with very pleasing attacking displays, but as time's worn on we've become more ragged and previously solid areas of our play has disintegrated, to the extent that now even some of our older heads are playing like strangers! Its evident he's been doing a lot more than tweaking. From where I'm sitting, I see a manager that inherited a bloody good side with the tools capable of making it a bloody great side with relatively minor adjustments. 20 months on and we're now a ragged, error-strewn side full of individuals and its virtually impossible to see any visible or track-able progress from match to match. Indeed, looking on his matches as a whole I have no idea where he wants to take this side or what he's attempting to achieve long-term. My worry is that he's had 20 months and we've deteriorated to where we are now, he's lost Roberts and gained Page, yet some fans feel he'll turn it around? How? What epiphany is he going to get within the next month that he wouldn't already have had in the last 20? I still want him to succeed as it means Wales will succeed, but currently I'm not seeing anything to even suggest he's capable of doing so. Very balanced overview and an excellent critique of Giggs' tenure so far. i was surprised by his appointment but wanted him to do well (still do) and I think we all want him to do well (some perhaps, begrudgingly so) however, there comes a time where even the most supportive and benevolent amongst us have to raise our concerns about the 'Manager's' ability to manage the 'business' on and off the park. (I used inverted commas as I don't think he is a good manager in EVERY aspect of the title personally). Good managers who inherit good teams and who do not have egos, fully understand that with just a tweak here and there that the team can be even better, exceptional even. Bad managers with an ego and who feel that they have something to prove will tear the team apart, even if it's partly subconsciously done, as they have a total lack of understanding, and empathy and are trying to stamp their authority (no need to fix what wasn't broken see Ry's) without realising that they will piss a lot of people off. (We still love you for what you've done for Welsh football Osian fach) There are certain types of people who are top managers in every walk of life and we have all probably been in jobs where we realise that the person stood in front of us in the Monday morning meeting is bluffing his way through the role and the lack of confidence in his ability to do the job properly wanes with every passing day for his sub-ordinates. One's mindset is then 'how the f... did this fella get the job....' and no matter what his instructions are to you as an individual or as a team, you do not have any confidence in him to carry out his instructions and feel that the best result can be achieved by doing it your way.....cue Friday nights performance. The type of man Manager who doesn't research the market well enough, puts his own interests/targets first, gives instructions that don't work as they are the first thing that springs into his mind, and then doesn't have your back when things go tits up. OK, so were still in with a shout of qualification, even if it is via the play-offs, which I believe will be the case as I just do not have enough confidence in him to not make another balls-up somewhere along the line unfortunately (sincerely hope that I am wrong) but it will be like winning a gold medal at the Olympics after coming second because the fella who won subsequently got disqualified. Great to win it but a slightly hollow feeling. That deterioration that Texan speaks about will take an immense amount of hard work, time, luck, realisation and moreover, humility on the part of the manager to turn it all around. I remain doubtful unfortunately, but absolutely hope to be made to eat humble pie.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 12, 2019 14:49:42 GMT
Post by georgetm1 on Sept 12, 2019 14:49:42 GMT
It's depressing to see how much we have reversed under Giggs' tenure. Watching exciting games during this international window depressed the crap out of me knowing that our manager doesn't have a clue and is way over his head. Even the exciting football we used to play has completely collapsed. All that shit about wanting us to play exciting and fast football with only 4 goals in 4 games really shows me how bad he is. Its become so bad that we are now contemplating how much we would get destroyed by newly formed Kosovo who have very little international experience.
I just see zero hope for our national team in the future under Giggs even with the easiest qualification route in the tournaments history.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 12, 2019 15:22:10 GMT
Post by johnoster on Sept 12, 2019 15:22:10 GMT
There's always hope mate. Just believe.
|
|
|
Giggs
Sept 12, 2019 16:23:30 GMT
Post by georgetm1 on Sept 12, 2019 16:23:30 GMT
There's always hope mate. Just believe. Unfortunately I can't mate. It looks like too much treading water while sinking in the sand underneath with Giggs in charge.
|
|