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Giggs
Sept 4, 2020 11:03:40 GMT
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Post by cadno on Sept 4, 2020 11:03:40 GMT
I don't think anyone can deny that, up to this point, he's done a good job. The results have been good, he's capped 18 players and completely transitioned the team (only 2 players finishing the game yesterday were in the Euro 16 squad!), and there have been some very good performances. I can see some clearly instructed patterns to our play - particularly the high press which DJ and Joniesta were excellent at yesterday. However, I'm still not entirely sure how we're trying to play when on the ball. Love it or loath it, with Coleman there was a clear, conservative identity and style of play. I'd like to see a clearer philosophy going forward. I'm also reserving some judgement until I see how we do against top class sides. But I think all of us who opposed the appointment need to accept that it clearly was a good decision. Good post. In a way it's been difficult for Giggs to create a clear identity, the squads have been quite inconsistent due to injuries etc. But since the introduction of Moore, and to a lesser extent the return of Joniesta, things have really improved. It was a great win last night, but I think we can definitely learn a few things from Finland- they were the strongest side for a section of the 2nd half, dominating posession. I noticed they picked up really good positions, and threaded good passes through the lines... I might be talking rubbish as I'm not a qualified coach, but one things for sure, our results and performances are improving! I'm beginning to warm to Giggs as manager!
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Giggs
Sept 4, 2020 11:05:16 GMT
Post by dai on Sept 4, 2020 11:05:16 GMT
The main aspect of Giggs' management I particularly like is his reluctancy to engage in too negative and conservative tactics. Although we seemed a bit kamikaze-esque early on, we look more assured now. In the past I've seen us go ultra defensive or deeper in order to protect a lead or maintain a draw. That sort of tactic just invites pressure and we've often conceded, or failed to hold on to a win or draw. It was refreshing last night to see us still maintaining an offensive shape, despite holding on to a narrow win. Attack is sometimes the best form of defence.
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Giggs
Sept 4, 2020 11:53:16 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 4, 2020 11:53:16 GMT
And remember that we had the best defensive record in our qualifying group. Picking up clean sheets away in places like Finland is a really good sign
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Post by superunknown on Sept 4, 2020 11:55:18 GMT
And remember that we had the best defensive record in our qualifying group. Picking up clean sheets away in places like Finland is a really good sign With arguably our first choice centre backs out as well.
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Giggs
Sept 4, 2020 12:16:14 GMT
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Sept 4, 2020 12:16:14 GMT
I know Ryan was much derided on here for his team talks at Man Utd while in temporary charge. Everyone needs to look at that series about Tottenham and see the talks Mourinho gives they are boring and uninspiring. Not heard Ben Davies speak yet.
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Giggs
Sept 6, 2020 17:24:45 GMT
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Post by underwood on Sept 6, 2020 17:24:45 GMT
His record is now 11 wins from 21. Only 4 competitive defeats & 10 clean sheets.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 6, 2020 19:03:31 GMT
The amount of clean sheets we are picking up is very pleasing. Always means we've got a chance of nicking results - like the last two games. Bodes really well for the future.
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Giggs
Sept 6, 2020 21:41:15 GMT
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Sept 6, 2020 21:41:15 GMT
Well done Ryan.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 7:21:42 GMT
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Post by underwood on Sept 7, 2020 7:21:42 GMT
We are going to have to face the fact that if Giggs keeps this up, we are going to lose him to a club job sooner rather than later.
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2020 7:55:27 GMT
I will be class if we get into League A.
The more often we play against the best opposition the better we will become.
We're on a great run of form atm, and without taking anything away from that (we've played against good sides) only Croatia fit into that 'top team' catergoty in our recent results really.
Our next step is to establish ourselves as a Switzerland, Denmark, Poland, Bosnia, Ukraine... challenging the top dogs on a regular basis.
We're certainly getting there, and the way Giggs wants us to play will only help us get there.
We need to be tested by teams like England before facing Italy, Turkey and Switzerland next summer.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 8:10:59 GMT
Post by iot on Sept 7, 2020 8:10:59 GMT
I will be class if we get into League A. The more often we play against the best opposition the better we will become. We're on a great run of form atm, and without taking anything away from that (we've played against good sides) only Croatia fit into that 'top team' catergoty in our recent results really. Our next step is to establish ourselves as a Switzerland, Denmark, Poland, Bosnia, Ukraine... challenging the top dogs on a regular basis. We're certainly getting there, and the way Giggs wants us to play will only help us get there. We need to be tested by teams like England before facing Italy, Turkey and Switzerland next summer. Agreed, I think we're probably still too soft when it will come to the big boys. Whilst it was great to get that result against Croatia, I think they've dropped off significantly since the world cup (just look at their 4-1 thrashing to Portugal, along with the draw against azerbaijan, loss to hungary etc.). You're right, the England game will be a good test
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 9:17:01 GMT
Post by pendragon on Sept 7, 2020 9:17:01 GMT
We are going to have to face the fact that if Giggs keeps this up, we are going to lose him to a club job sooner rather than later. Maybe, but as mentioned on another thread, club management is a different kettle of fish. A four year debut stint at international level may not be seen as substantial enough to take a punt on him by most PL clubs. Championship might be a different matter and if he were to take us to a World Cup, those clubs might come calling but I'm not sure he'd entertain a Championship club. When he eventually leaves for pastures new, I sincerely hope that the FAW continue to promote "The Welsh Way" and go for a manager who is ambitious, dynamic and adopts the style of fast possession-based football.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 7, 2020 10:20:35 GMT
Remember when we got called a one man team all the time? Remember when it was only really Bale who was getting our goals?
On this unbeaten run alone we've had 6 different scorers Bale x2 James x1 Moore x3 Wilson x1 Ramsey x2 Neco x1
Under Giggs overall we've now had 11 different scorers Vokes x3 Bale x7 Wilson x3 Ramsey x3 Lawrence x1 C.Roberts x1 Woodburn x1 James x2 Brooks x1 Moore x3 Neco x1
I'm we'll have many more getting their first goals over these next 2 years as well
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 10:35:38 GMT
Post by dai on Sept 7, 2020 10:35:38 GMT
Massive credit to Giggs for our results and squad development, it hasn't been pretty at times, but job's have been done.
Still doesn't mean he's immune to criticism as it's been very fine margins so far. How many of us would have laid into him if Neco hadn't scored yesterday?
For me, his team selection can still be very random and questionable. A bit worrying as he's been in charge for 2 years now. Maybe we should be forgivable these last two games as they're in difficult times and we've been hampered by injuries and pull outs.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 12:37:30 GMT
Post by hooky on Sept 7, 2020 12:37:30 GMT
Can't wait until Giggs fails / we go on a losing run. Am sure many so called fans will drive him out!
Goodness sake - every team has poor or disappointing games! We had half of our first team missing! We have talent but guess what other countries have talent too! Finland are decent and Bulgaria are not a joke! I don't remember us getting results when not playing great in the past like this! It made me laugh when someone gave Giggs credit for the substitutions BUT they had to add they did not think it was in the plan for Neco to score in the 94th minute! I bet its nothing to do with coaching that we passed the ball 22 times ahead of the goal deep in injury time?
I am really getting fed up with this BUT criticism! No other manager has been as brave as Giggs and suceeded. 18 debuts, we qualify for a tournament and are top of our Nations League!!! That is incredible! Hey but no doubt we have the best youngsters in Europe and any other manager would have achieved more! I am glad Osian left when he did because he would not doubt have been credited with everything good we have achieved. Giggs seems to be a winner and we should be happy with that. I really like his ruthless streak with players too. Lets stop pretending we are better experts than him because clearly we are not
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 12:40:05 GMT
Post by hooky on Sept 7, 2020 12:40:05 GMT
The 22 passes 'coaching' comment of course refers to patience and keeping believe. Late winners are the hallmark of a team that keep believing. Maybe Giggs is lucky and everything comes crashing down eventually but until then lets be optimistic and supportive and not glass half empty! We are a nation of just 3 million not 80 million!!!
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 12:58:33 GMT
Post by melynwy on Sept 7, 2020 12:58:33 GMT
The 22 passes 'coaching' comment of course refers to patience and keeping believe. Late winners are the hallmark of a team that keep believing. Maybe Giggs is lucky and everything comes crashing down eventually but until then lets be optimistic and supportive and not glass half empty! We are a nation of just 3 million not 80 million!!! Who are you arguing with? All recent posts about Giggs in this thread are positive.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 13:31:47 GMT
Post by alarch on Sept 7, 2020 13:31:47 GMT
Can't wait until Giggs fails / we go on a losing run. Am sure many so called fans will drive him out! Goodness sake - every team has poor or disappointing games! We had half of our first team missing! We have talent but guess what other countries have talent too! Finland are decent and Bulgaria are not a joke! I don't remember us getting results when not playing great in the past like this! It made me laugh when someone gave Giggs credit for the substitutions BUT they had to add they did not think it was in the plan for Neco to score in the 94th minute! I bet its nothing to do with coaching that we passed the ball 22 times ahead of the goal deep in injury time? I am really getting fed up with this BUT criticism! No other manager has been as brave as Giggs and suceeded. 18 debuts, we qualify for a tournament and are top of our Nations League!!! That is incredible! Hey but no doubt we have the best youngsters in Europe and any other manager would have achieved more! I am glad Osian left when he did because he would not doubt have been credited with everything good we have achieved. Giggs seems to be a winner and we should be happy with that. I really like his ruthless streak with players too. Lets stop pretending we are better experts than him because clearly we are not Oh God, not another binary thinker... I know it may be hard for you to fathom this, but it is actually possible to acknowledge positives in a player or manager and still identify areas where they're not getting things right. Rather than making facile comments why not address the issues raised in this forum, especially regarding the pairing of Smith and Morrell over the whole 90 minutes? Do you think that went well? Do you not think Giggs could have changed things at some point? Or does the fact that we fashioned three quality attacking moves over 90 minutes not warrant any examination in your opinion.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 13:58:26 GMT
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Post by rushlegend on Sept 7, 2020 13:58:26 GMT
I think had 5 subs been allocated then Giggs could have replaced Smith with Levitt perhaps and Wilson for Bale but as they weren't great they were still doing a job hence bringing Hal & 2 William's on to try and find that winner was more important as we didn't really look like conceding -i didn't think it was a poor performance when you consider everything - another game that Giggs will learn from
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 14:10:27 GMT
Post by iot on Sept 7, 2020 14:10:27 GMT
Can't wait until Giggs fails / we go on a losing run. Am sure many so called fans will drive him out! Goodness sake - every team has poor or disappointing games! We had half of our first team missing! We have talent but guess what other countries have talent too! Finland are decent and Bulgaria are not a joke! I don't remember us getting results when not playing great in the past like this! It made me laugh when someone gave Giggs credit for the substitutions BUT they had to add they did not think it was in the plan for Neco to score in the 94th minute! I bet its nothing to do with coaching that we passed the ball 22 times ahead of the goal deep in injury time? I am really getting fed up with this BUT criticism! No other manager has been as brave as Giggs and suceeded. 18 debuts, we qualify for a tournament and are top of our Nations League!!! That is incredible! Hey but no doubt we have the best youngsters in Europe and any other manager would have achieved more! I am glad Osian left when he did because he would not doubt have been credited with everything good we have achieved. Giggs seems to be a winner and we should be happy with that. I really like his ruthless streak with players too. Lets stop pretending we are better experts than him because clearly we are not What's a BUT criticism?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 14:26:03 GMT
Your bum looks big in that?
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 14:26:46 GMT
Post by hooky on Sept 7, 2020 14:26:46 GMT
Obviously Cabango was not deemed ready, so Ampadu could not be moved to midfield.
Joniesta is not a holding midfielder. he is not physically strong enough for that.
Giggs did the right thing - trust in Morrell (as he has more experience) and split the other spot between Levitt and Smith over the two games. Joniesta dribbles a lot, is not the greatest of passers (in terms of range) and so I would argue he could have been just the kind of potential defensive liability that Bulgaria and Finland would have been hoping for.
Its like the comments are we won which is good but Giggs made such a mistake in his midfield selection! Would love to see the comments if we put an attack minded midfielder in as a holding midfielder, conceded a goal as a result and lost the game! Morrell and Smith are both limited players who were filling in but they were playing in their natural positions.
We had 3 very average players in our team - Lockyr, Morrell and Smith due to injuries. Fortunately, we managed to get away with it and took maximum points. I think we need to take it for what it is - lack of options, team gets selected, team wins - you back the management's judgement. Again, we are not Brazil or Germany, we have limited options! Even someone like Neco was exposed defensively in the 20 mins he was on the pitch. Giggs has talent to work with it but a lot of it is young and it is nowhere near the level of a top tier nation.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 14:33:48 GMT
Post by hooky on Sept 7, 2020 14:33:48 GMT
Substitutions:
Williams for Brooks - worked out well. Neco for Roberts - worked out very well. Robson-Kanu for Morre - linked up play better
Would Giggs have been better off replacing one of Morrell or Smith instead? NO. I think they were involved a few times in the 22 passes before the goal in switching play from side to side. Thank goodness they did that instead of trying to make a Holywood pass or humping it forward!
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 14:36:41 GMT
Post by dai on Sept 7, 2020 14:36:41 GMT
Can't wait until Giggs fails / we go on a losing run. Am sure many so called fans will drive him out! Goodness sake - every team has poor or disappointing games! We had half of our first team missing! We have talent but guess what other countries have talent too! Finland are decent and Bulgaria are not a joke! I don't remember us getting results when not playing great in the past like this! It made me laugh when someone gave Giggs credit for the substitutions BUT they had to add they did not think it was in the plan for Neco to score in the 94th minute! I bet its nothing to do with coaching that we passed the ball 22 times ahead of the goal deep in injury time? I am really getting fed up with this BUT criticism! No other manager has been as brave as Giggs and suceeded. 18 debuts, we qualify for a tournament and are top of our Nations League!!! That is incredible! Hey but no doubt we have the best youngsters in Europe and any other manager would have achieved more! I am glad Osian left when he did because he would not doubt have been credited with everything good we have achieved. Giggs seems to be a winner and we should be happy with that. I really like his ruthless streak with players too. Lets stop pretending we are better experts than him because clearly we are not What Giggs has done is fantastic, I think everyone is agreement on that, but there is always room for improvement. Fact is Giggs could have made things a lot easier for himself against Bulgaria with sensible team selections. It doesn't take an expert to work out it was not sensible to pick a rookie (yes, Morrell despite being superb, is still a rookie) alongside another rookie who hasn't played club football since December 2019. And then there's the reluctance at times to change and adapt throughout the match.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 15:01:46 GMT
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 7, 2020 15:01:46 GMT
The 22 passes 'coaching' comment of course refers to patience and keeping believe. Late winners are the hallmark of a team that keep believing. Maybe Giggs is lucky and everything comes crashing down eventually but until then lets be optimistic and supportive and not glass half empty! We are a nation of just 3 million not 80 million!!! Who are you arguing with? All recent posts about Giggs in this thread are positive. Any excuse to use as many exclamation marks as possible
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Post by rushlegend on Sept 7, 2020 15:04:28 GMT
Is it me or has Giggs brought that (winning matches in closing stages) with him from his time as player for Man Utd?
The times they scored late goals by keeping pressing teams til they folded is a trait he perhaps has now inherited as manager - he even scored himself for Wales in last min v. Belarus in 1999.
That's 4 wins in past year (T&T, Azerbaijan, Finland & Bulgaria) that have been won late on.
I can only think of Vokes v. Azerbaijan in 2008 where we scored late on to win in previous Wales matches
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Post by alarch on Sept 7, 2020 15:23:40 GMT
Can't wait until Giggs fails / we go on a losing run. Am sure many so called fans will drive him out! Goodness sake - every team has poor or disappointing games! We had half of our first team missing! We have talent but guess what other countries have talent too! Finland are decent and Bulgaria are not a joke! I don't remember us getting results when not playing great in the past like this! It made me laugh when someone gave Giggs credit for the substitutions BUT they had to add they did not think it was in the plan for Neco to score in the 94th minute! I bet its nothing to do with coaching that we passed the ball 22 times ahead of the goal deep in injury time? I am really getting fed up with this BUT criticism! No other manager has been as brave as Giggs and suceeded. 18 debuts, we qualify for a tournament and are top of our Nations League!!! That is incredible! Hey but no doubt we have the best youngsters in Europe and any other manager would have achieved more! I am glad Osian left when he did because he would not doubt have been credited with everything good we have achieved. Giggs seems to be a winner and we should be happy with that. I really like his ruthless streak with players too. Lets stop pretending we are better experts than him because clearly we are not What Giggs has done is fantastic, I think everyone is agreement on that, but there is always room for improvement. Fact is Giggs could have made things a lot easier for himself against Bulgaria with sensible team selections. It doesn't take an expert to work out it was not sensible to pick a rookie (yes, Morrell despite being superb, is still a rookie) alongside another rookie who hasn't played club football since December 2019. And then there's the reluctance at times to change and adapt throughout the match. Personally I didn't mind Giggs starting with Morrell and Levitt in the first game and then Morrell and Smith in the second, it's his failure to address the obvious limitations of the latter pairing as the game unfolded that gave me cause for concern. The substitutions ultimately came up trumps, but the goal when it came came out of the blue. We fashioned only two other decent opportunities all game - the James effort from the Brooks lay-off and the Brooks effort against the angle of bar and post. Perhaps, given we'd won out in Helsinki Giggs was happy to take a point, and treat a win as a bonus? We've certainly become a lot harder to beat under his tenure. Early doors Giggs was a bit gung-ho, especially against decent opposition (4-4-2 away to Denmark with Bale and Ramsey up front, Ramsey alongside Allen in a holding two in the reverse fixture, Vaulks in a midfield three away to Croatia in the stifling heat). Perhaps he's reviewed things and is now a bit too conservative at times. Our goals scored and conceded columns would suggest a change of tack. Perhaps he'll eventually get the balance right. Broadly speaking I like our direction of travel under Giggs. His introduction of Moore was certainly an inspired left-field selection, for which he deserves a lot of credit. It's also to his credit that we use Moore as an outlet sparingly - it would be an easy get-out to ping the ball up to Moore time after time. The variety in our play is a welcome thing, and should having a realistic option of playing it long occasionally should serve us well against better quality opposition, when we may struggle to play out from the back. The friendly against Spain illustrated how we might find things hard if we only try and play out from the back. The other long term benefit of Giggs playing so many youngsters now, is by the time the Euros come around the likes of Morrell will be familiar with the international stage, and should be more reliable options if called upon. With Giggs I see more positives right now than negatives - but his in-game management is an area that I would like to see an improvement on. Can he change tactics mid-game? For me that's still very much an open question.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 15:27:43 GMT
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Post by quetzal on Sept 7, 2020 15:27:43 GMT
Is it me or has Giggs brought that (winning matches in closing stages) with him from his time as player for Man Utd? The times they scored late goals by keeping pressing teams til they folded is a trait he perhaps has now inherited as manager - he even scored himself for Wales in last min v. Belarus in 1999. That's 4 wins in past year (T&T, Azerbaijan, Finland & Bulgaria) that have been won late on. I can only think of Vokes v. Azerbaijan in 2008 where we scored late on to win in previous Wales matches I think it’s you. There’s no way Neco should have got to that infront of the Bulgarian. Ball was in the air a long time.
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Giggs
Sept 7, 2020 15:40:47 GMT
Post by alarch on Sept 7, 2020 15:40:47 GMT
Is it me or has Giggs brought that (winning matches in closing stages) with him from his time as player for Man Utd? The times they scored late goals by keeping pressing teams til they folded is a trait he perhaps has now inherited as manager - he even scored himself for Wales in last min v. Belarus in 1999. That's 4 wins in past year (T&T, Azerbaijan, Finland & Bulgaria) that have been won late on. I can only think of Vokes v. Azerbaijan in 2008 where we scored late on to win in previous Wales matches I think it's more of a coincidence than anything. Had we been pressing hard in either of the recent games you might have a point, but I didn't see much evidence of that. One of the things I found a bit odd about the Bulgaria game is that we didn't really press them high at any stage of the game, especially considering we did press Finland in the opening 20 odd minutes - and with some effect. Perhaps fatigue was an issue, but you would have thought that we would be more likely to press a weaker Bulgaria team at home for some of the game at least, rather than a superior Finnish team, away in the first competitive game of the season. If fatigue was an issue, then why not start with HRK and Neco Williams? Along with the conservative selection of Smith/Morrell it points to a conservative, let's-not-lose game plan, which fortuitously resulted in three points. So much for fortune favouring the brave.
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Post by biwmares on Oct 8, 2020 15:35:22 GMT
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