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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 0:03:46 GMT
Alexander-Arnold wasn't fit for the trip so what choice was there?
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 24, 2020 8:30:52 GMT
Alexander-Arnold wasn't fit for the trip so what choice was there? Is Trent out for a while? Just wondering about a possible scenario where Trent misses a chunk of pre-season, whereas Neco trains well, plays the Community Shield & gets 2 games for Cymru in the international window. This would give him a great chance at having a little run in the first XI for Liverpool |
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Post by TheWelshWay on Aug 24, 2020 8:32:32 GMT
Alexander-Arnold wasn't fit for the trip so what choice was there? Hoever, who played the second half for them. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 11:43:18 GMT
Alexander-Arnold wasn't fit for the trip so what choice was there? Hoever, who played the second half for them. Centre half by trade and a year younger than Neco. Not real competition for the place yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 11:44:39 GMT
Alexander-Arnold wasn't fit for the trip so what choice was there? Is Trent out for a while? No, supposedly a minor knock so he's just training on his own at Liverpool instead of travelling. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Aug 24, 2020 12:13:36 GMT
Hoever, who played the second half for them. Centre half by trade and a year younger than Neco. Not real competition for the place yet. Where have you read that? |
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Post by insertname on Aug 24, 2020 20:48:55 GMT
Just giggs and hartson showing their idiocies with how they've dealt with the question. It's cringeworthy. I'm assuming it's coming from english journos who in their arrogance believe any welsh player with tenuous english links would rather play for england, and rather than batting off the question with confidence, hartson and giggs give really mealy mouthed answers It’s what we’ve become used to though- immediately on the defensive With a grovelling answer of “oooh I hope he chooses us” etc when there hasn’t really been any question of it on here. The Welsh pundits seem to love performative “under-dog-ism” for their English paymasters. I get that we aren’t anywhere near the same level as England but considering we got to the semis of the Euros and qualified again we should be a little more bullish when talking about players choosing Wales and just in general considering how far we have come from the days when the likes of Danny Collins would piss us about. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 25, 2020 10:00:33 GMT
I hate the idea that if a player has any English heritage the default is that he is English, unless he chooses otherwise. It's such a biased Anglocentric narrative
There was never a situation in the press of them saying 'will James Maddison choose England or Ireland?' (he was eligible for both until his cap last year). Maddison is as Irish as Neco is English, so surely the press would always ask the same questions regardless of national bias? Alas, instead they favour Anglocentrism over unbiased journalism - yawn!
If I was a pundit and I was asked 'do you think Neco will choose England or Wales?' I'd reply saying 'why would Neco choose England?' and laugh at the silliness of the question. I think to be fair to Giggs he has to be slightly more diplomatic as he is a manager, but as a pundit Hartson should be highlighting how fundamentally biased the question is & simply stating that Neco is Welsh
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Post by insertname on Aug 25, 2020 15:16:11 GMT
I hate the idea that if a player has any English heritage the default is that he is English, unless he chooses otherwise. It's such a biased Anglocentric narrative There was never a situation in the press of them saying 'will James Maddison choose England or Ireland?' (he was eligible for both until his cap last year). Maddison is as Irish as Neco is English, so surely the press would always ask the same questions regardless of national bias? Alas, instead they favour Anglocentrism over unbiased journalism - yawn! If I was a pundit and I was asked 'do you think Neco will choose England or Wales?' I'd reply saying 'why would Neco choose England?' and laugh at the silliness of the question. I think to be fair to Giggs he has to be slightly more diplomatic as he is a manager, but as a pundit Hartson should be highlighting how fundamentally biased the question is & simply stating that Neco is Welsh Well said. I like Hartson but he does play up to them, even his mournful tone of voice sounds like he wants crumbs from their table “just let us have Neco please England, we’ve got sod all else” etc. It makes me wonder how Savage would have answered the question, he’s usually never one to shy away from giving an unpopular answer. I can’t recall any examples of him towing the line for the English press, although he’s in the media enough that I daresay it has happened. I do like Welsh ex-player pundits in the main and they can have some strong views but when appearing in the English media there does seem to be a pessimism when it comes to Wales like they dare not challenge the narrative of us just being nothing more than a kid brother to England. It makes me interested now to pay attention to the coverage of the up coming friendly- I guarantee 5 live will have Hartson on as a guest and he’ll apologise for Wales all the way through. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 25, 2020 18:22:24 GMT
I hate the idea that if a player has any English heritage the default is that he is English, unless he chooses otherwise. It's such a biased Anglocentric narrative There was never a situation in the press of them saying 'will James Maddison choose England or Ireland?' (he was eligible for both until his cap last year). Maddison is as Irish as Neco is English, so surely the press would always ask the same questions regardless of national bias? Alas, instead they favour Anglocentrism over unbiased journalism - yawn! If I was a pundit and I was asked 'do you think Neco will choose England or Wales?' I'd reply saying 'why would Neco choose England?' and laugh at the silliness of the question. I think to be fair to Giggs he has to be slightly more diplomatic as he is a manager, but as a pundit Hartson should be highlighting how fundamentally biased the question is & simply stating that Neco is Welsh Well said. I like Hartson but he does play up to them, even his mournful tone of voice sounds like he wants crumbs from their table “just let us have Neco please England, we’ve got sod all else” etc. It makes me wonder how Savage would have answered the question, he’s usually never one to shy away from giving an unpopular answer. I can’t recall any examples of him towing the line for the English press, although he’s in the media enough that I daresay it has happened. I do like Welsh ex-player pundits in the main and they can have some strong views but when appearing in the English media there does seem to be a pessimism when it comes to Wales like they dare not challenge the narrative of us just being nothing more than a kid brother to England. It makes me interested now to pay attention to the coverage of the up coming friendly- I guarantee 5 live will have Hartson on as a guest and he’ll apologise for Wales all the way through. 100% agree with your points The mentality of 'please let us have him England' really annoys me. We've earned the right to be self-assured and confident as a footballing nation (and a nation as a whole in my opinion), sadly there is a large chunk of society that have been conditioned to us being subservient - and I think this is an example of it playing out in football. Thankfully, the powers that be within our football association do seem to have that self-belief in our setup/system, which is ultimately what matters and will ensure we keep hold of our talent Though, you'd hope that over time the press would start to clock on to the fact that many players who are good enough to play for England, through the age groups up to seniors, seem to be choosing us. This list continues to grow; Ampadu, Brooks, Wilson, Woodburn, James, Matondo, T.Roberts, Mepham, Neco. I'm sure players like Brennan Johnson and Chem Campbell will be the next along the line in that sense |
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Post by insertname on Aug 25, 2020 21:09:44 GMT
Well said. I like Hartson but he does play up to them, even his mournful tone of voice sounds like he wants crumbs from their table “just let us have Neco please England, we’ve got sod all else” etc. It makes me wonder how Savage would have answered the question, he’s usually never one to shy away from giving an unpopular answer. I can’t recall any examples of him towing the line for the English press, although he’s in the media enough that I daresay it has happened. I do like Welsh ex-player pundits in the main and they can have some strong views but when appearing in the English media there does seem to be a pessimism when it comes to Wales like they dare not challenge the narrative of us just being nothing more than a kid brother to England. It makes me interested now to pay attention to the coverage of the up coming friendly- I guarantee 5 live will have Hartson on as a guest and he’ll apologise for Wales all the way through. 100% agree with your points The mentality of 'please let us have him England' really annoys me. We've earned the right to be self-assured and confident as a footballing nation (and a nation as a whole in my opinion), sadly there is a large chunk of society that have been conditioned to us being subservient - and I think this is an example of it playing out in football. Thankfully, the powers that be within our football association do seem to have that self-belief in our setup/system, which is ultimately what matters and will ensure we keep hold of our talent Though, you'd hope that over time the press would start to clock on to the fact that many players who are good enough to play for England, through the age groups up to seniors, seem to be choosing us. This list continues to grow; Ampadu, Brooks, Wilson, Woodburn, James, Matondo, T.Roberts, Mepham, Neco. I'm sure players like Brennan Johnson and Chem Campbell will be the next along the line in that sense Good observation that, it’s a ready made riposte- without being disrespectful just point out that we’ve given players in our youth setup their autonomy to choose and they have chosen Wales so we should be confident about the likes of Williams choosing us too. As an addendum there was a follow up article about Giggs talking about Williams call up and saying he’s had no doubts about Williams commitment having talked to him previously. It really was Hartson not knowing much about the player personally with a bit of Welsh subservience thrown in. |
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Post by iot on Aug 25, 2020 21:24:24 GMT
Don't want to put a dampner on everyone's excitement about Neco, but by all accounts he had a poor game today. Lpool had their strongest team out and conceded 2 within 15 mins, they didn't come back to draw 2-2 until all the reserves came on. A brief look at twitter and player ratings articles suggests Neco was at fault for at least one of the goals.
His last couple of performances in the league were also quite iffy, so perhaps a good reality check for him and us fans
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Post by manulike on Aug 25, 2020 21:35:19 GMT
Don't want to put a dampner on everyone's excitement about Neco, but by all accounts he had a poor game today. Lpool had their strongest team out and conceded 2 within 15 mins, they didn't come back to draw 2-2 until all the reserves came on. A brief look at twitter and player ratings articles suggests Neco was at fault for at least one of the goals. His last couple of performances in the league were also quite iffy, so perhaps a good reality check for him and us fans #Neco.Out.Taylor.In ;-)) |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Aug 25, 2020 23:36:06 GMT
Don't want to put a dampner on everyone's excitement about Neco, but by all accounts he had a poor game today. Lpool had their strongest team out and conceded 2 within 15 mins, they didn't come back to draw 2-2 until all the reserves came on. A brief look at twitter and player ratings articles suggests Neco was at fault for at least one of the goals. His last couple of performances in the league were also quite iffy, so perhaps a good reality check for him and us fans #Neco.Out.Taylor.In ;-)) My spleen will explode in shock if I ever see Taylor at right back for Wales 😂 Neco's bound to have a few stinkers, he's 19. Let him be Roberts' understudy if needs be. He'll be 1st choice soon enough though, his ceiling is way higher. |
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Post by jbt95 on Aug 26, 2020 8:34:09 GMT
My spleen will explode in shock if I ever see Taylor at right back for Wales 😂 But he played for Team GB at right back and Gunter played for Wales at LB 10 years ago when somebody else got sent off/injured!   |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 26, 2020 9:36:54 GMT
My spleen will explode in shock if I ever see Taylor at right back for Wales 😂 But he played for Team GB at right back and Gunter played for Wales at LB 10 years ago when somebody else got sent off/injured! Gunter played at left back in 2018 against Denmark (H) too! |
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Post by cadno on Aug 26, 2020 9:42:26 GMT
If only Adam Matthews was 19, everyone would be calling him the next Cafu!
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Post by TheWelshWay on Aug 26, 2020 10:32:52 GMT
If only Adam Matthews was 19, everyone would be calling him the next Cafu! But he's not - He's 28 and likely playing in league 1 next season. |
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Post by manulike on Aug 26, 2020 11:23:36 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 26, 2020 11:35:31 GMT
Luckily I think Neco's performances at the back end of last season seemed to earn the trust of Klopp that he can deputise for TAA. In that sense, yes he may get less cameos at the end of games now, but thanks to the implementation of that rule, Neco now will likely be used when TAA needs rest and/or is injured. Neco was already used in the cups too don't forget I think Klopp playing Neco at LB against Brighton was a test to whether he could deputise there too, but I think after that game he felt that it would be best to sign cover (Tsimikas) and use Neco as cover on the right. Seems to me now that Klopp has 4 full backs that he's happy with I'd never wish injury upon anyone, but if TAA were to get injured this season, Neco could get significant game time |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Aug 26, 2020 11:53:20 GMT
My spleen will explode in shock if I ever see Taylor at right back for Wales 😂 But he played for Team GB at right back and Gunter played for Wales at LB 10 years ago when somebody else got sent off/injured! Team what? Never heard of them, they sound disgusting. |
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Post by cadno on Aug 26, 2020 12:02:51 GMT
If only Adam Matthews was 19, everyone would be calling him the next Cafu! But he's not - He's 28 and likely playing in league 1 next season. Still a better CV than Neco atm, and proven himself vs the best (Barcelona etc) over the years. I don't get the total obsession with youngsters |
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Post by dai on Aug 26, 2020 13:15:18 GMT
Problem with Matthews is that his previous commitment is questionable, and I know for a fact he's turned down Wales twice when called up and fully fit. One was because he'd booked a boys holiday, and didn't want to miss that...............
However I still think he should be ahead of Gunter based on the past 12 months.
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Post by TheWelshWay on Aug 26, 2020 13:24:57 GMT
But he's not - He's 28 and likely playing in league 1 next season. Still a better CV than Neco atm, and proven himself vs the best (Barcelona etc) over the years. I don't get the total obsession with youngsters Matthews had potential and reached his ceiling at Celtic – Despite now being at his prime, his career has gone backwards. Williams has every chance to be Wales best ever right back and has much more potential than Matthews. Roberts is our starter, so i'd much rather Neco than Matthews as a backup. That’s not an obsession with youngsters, but reality. Would you have Matthews over Gunter? |
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Post by manulike on Aug 26, 2020 16:46:08 GMT
Still a better CV than Neco atm, and proven himself vs the best (Barcelona etc) over the years. I don't get the total obsession with youngsters Matthews had potential and reached his ceiling at Celtic – Despite now being at his prime, his career has gone backwards. Williams has every chance to be Wales best ever right back and has much more potential than Matthews. Roberts is our starter, so i'd much rather Neco than Matthews as a backup. That’s not an obsession with youngsters, but reality. Would you have Matthews over Gunter? I appreciate your explanation and accept it. For the final question Re:Gunter - I'd say yes. Personally, I felt a little cheated when Giggs only picked a 26-man squad, when he could have easily picked 31-32. Especially with this being a COVID squad and all players will need to get tested on SUNDAY. So what happens if 4 players test positive prior to going into their bubble? I would have loved to see Matthews, Huws, Doidge and (dare I say it) Taylor in there!
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Post by cadno on Aug 26, 2020 17:16:13 GMT
Still a better CV than Neco atm, and proven himself vs the best (Barcelona etc) over the years. I don't get the total obsession with youngsters Matthews had potential and reached his ceiling at Celtic – Despite now being at his prime, his career has gone backwards. Williams has every chance to be Wales best ever right back and has much more potential than Matthews. Roberts is our starter, so i'd much rather Neco than Matthews as a backup. That’s not an obsession with youngsters, but reality. Would you have Matthews over Gunter? Aye, as much as I like Gunts, Matthews would be in the squad ahead of him for me! I Understand Neco should be even better by next summer, so it's fair enough that Giggs wants to get him involved now. |
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Post by robin1864 on Aug 26, 2020 18:47:50 GMT
But he's not - He's 28 and likely playing in league 1 next season. Still a better CV than Neco atm, and proven himself vs the best (Barcelona etc) over the years. I don't get the total obsession with youngsters He's pushing 30, I'd expect him to have a more extensive CV than a 19 year old, that doesn't mean he's better though. Matthews has won x4 SPL titles, 3 of which were essentially uncontested, and put in a good shift against Barca 8 years ago. Since then he's been relegated 3 times from the PL & Championship, and will be playing in League One once more. Don't get me wrong I once had high hopes for Matthews, but I think it's now time to forget about him in regards to Wales. |
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Post by cymroircarn on Aug 27, 2020 7:26:21 GMT
But he's not - He's 28 and likely playing in league 1 next season. Still a better CV than Neco atm, and proven himself vs the best (Barcelona etc) over the years. I don't get the total obsession with youngsters Neco has a better CV than Adam did at his age |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 27, 2020 8:41:39 GMT
Still a better CV than Neco atm, and proven himself vs the best (Barcelona etc) over the years. I don't get the total obsession with youngsters Neco has a better CV than Adam did at his age Was going to say - has Matthews got Premier League & Club World Cup winners medals to his name? Did he nick one from a Chelsea player in 2015 when he was at Sunderland or something? |
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Post by fiveattheback on Aug 27, 2020 14:37:47 GMT
Neco has a better CV than Adam did at his age Was going to say - has Matthews got Premier League & Club World Cup winners medals to his name? Did he nick one from a Chelsea player in 2015 when he was at Sunderland or something? At 19 Matthews had 40 Championship appearances under his belt, its hardly like Williams was integral to winning those competitions either |
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