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Post by morg on May 25, 2023 19:30:07 GMT
I'm surprised that Neco updates are being seen as so critical. Broken jaw which required surgery. Player and club said he was out for the season. To me, that would include June. Take care Neco, hopefully see you in September. Even Page said a few weeks back that there was no rush. Don't understand the noise to be honest.
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Post by iot on May 25, 2023 20:03:51 GMT
I'm surprised that Neco updates are being seen as so critical. Broken jaw which required surgery. Player and club said he was out for the season. To me, that would include June. Take care Neco, hopefully see you in September. Even Page said a few weeks back that there was no rush. Don't understand the noise to be honest. Eh, I don't get that apathy tbh. We have a key player who has sustained an injury which could take around 6-8 weeks to recover (if amateur Google researching can be relied upon!), 7 weeks out from crucial (potentially make or break) qualifiers. Not sure why you've taken the comments to mean he's out of the June fixtures when that falls outside the club season. He was delivering his message to Forest fans and clearly referring to the premier league season. Page obviously doesn't think he's completely ruled out, otherwise he wouldn't have made comments about needing to seek clarity. Personally, I'm really hoping he does make it just in time, although obviously not expecting anything, but I'd like to think we're making every effort to get him in, which is why I find it a bit strange that it's been left so late without any communication on his recovery timescale. It doesn't inspire confidence. |
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Post by morg on May 25, 2023 20:10:25 GMT
Not apathy just realism. Could easily be 3 to 6 months. If Page is that dubious, he should ring Forest and stop whingeing in the press. Why isn't he moaning about Sheffield United's lack of clarity on Norrington-Davies?
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Post by iot on May 25, 2023 20:45:27 GMT
Not apathy just realism. Could easily be 3 to 6 months. If Page is that dubious, he should ring Forest and stop whingeing in the press. Why isn't he moaning about Sheffield United's lack of clarity on Norrington-Davies? It is apathy, because you don't seem to care about the prospect of us getting done over again with the availability of a crucial player from the same club that messed us about in the last window. If he's out for a couple of months, Forest will know that and the least you can expect is that they let us know where we stand. I don't disagree that Page / the medical team should have contacted the club by now. You're right that clarity on the situation with RND would be good too, although that may have happened behind the scenes (I don't think any journo's asked the question). Frankly, I care much more about the situation with Neco because I think he's a much more important player. I felt he was one of our best performers in the last window, so it'll be a big blow to lose him. |
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Post by morg on May 25, 2023 21:14:40 GMT
Our game v Armenia is about 7 weeks from when he suffered an horrific injury that required surgery. Even if the healing process were at your 6-8 week best case, then that's a bit tight. Not to mention lack of match fitness and presumably significant weight loss. He's not crucial in his current state and I'd assumed that he'd reappear in pre season training. Page earlier in the month also said he wouldn't be rushing him back. Page's and your reactions seem to be more about Forest rather than this specific injury. My main issue is that as with Brennan this is being played out via the media rather than by direct contact with the club.
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 25, 2023 22:26:54 GMT
What I don't understand is why we're bemoaning this lack of information via the media instead of talking to Forest! It's just going to make the situation worse. I doubt we would go to the media about this unless we want to communicate that the other side are being purposefully obstructive. Why would we complain about it if we haven't asked for clarity and not received it? Forest weren't transparent with us about the Brennan situation, now they're not being forthcoming with us about the Neco situation. It reflects really badly on them, as they have a duty to all of their players to liaise with their respective national teams for the benefit of the player Even Real Madrid, who had a lot of money and political capital tied up in Bale, were always transparent and forthcoming with us. They had far more motive to be shady than Nottingham Forest, but we never had any issues with them |
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 25, 2023 22:31:22 GMT
Not apathy just realism. Could easily be 3 to 6 months. If Page is that dubious, he should ring Forest and stop whingeing in the press. Why isn't he moaning about Sheffield United's lack of clarity on Norrington-Davies? Doesn't the fact that we're not moaning at Sheffield United in identical circumstances tell you something about the situation behind the scenes? It shows that Sheffield United have communicated with us about where RND is at, whereas Nottingham Forest have not. We've obviously asked both clubs at this point and one is not forthcoming, hence the comments in the media Hint hint, it's coming from a club that now has form for this behaviour from the last international window as well! |
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Post by 60sred on May 26, 2023 5:54:55 GMT
Forest did provide clarity from the start on Neco injury they stated he had undergone surgery and was out for the season. When Cooper was asked about update he was right not to answer he is not a doctor and people in general do not want their medical conditions talked about in public. Wales can take take control of this situation after Sunday when they can get their own medical team involved. Neco may be fit physically to play but any injury to any part of the head can have a psychological impact on a player involved in a contact sport like peta cech & jimenez. The only person who will know how he feels about that is Neco himself.
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Post by hal on May 26, 2023 11:02:47 GMT
See clips of him back in training with Forest today with a face guard on, not sure how intense the training is? Looks like he’s working to potentially be fit for 3 weeks time?
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Post by iot on May 26, 2023 12:03:42 GMT
See clips of him back in training with Forest today with a face guard on, not sure how intense the training is? Looks like he’s working to potentially be fit for 3 weeks time? That's a really positive sign. Yeah you'd think it would be with an eye on getting himself fit for us, otherwise why bother when his club season's already over. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 26, 2023 12:58:01 GMT
See clips of him back in training with Forest today with a face guard on, not sure how intense the training is? Looks like he’s working to potentially be fit for 3 weeks time? That's encouraging. Would be nice for Forest to let us know where he's at because it sounds like it's a possibility he could be ready Glad to hear he doesn't sound too psychologically affected by it |
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Post by 60sred on May 26, 2023 15:16:29 GMT
Suprised to see Neco back in training but great news. Hard to judge on psychological affect until he has that first real proper physical aerial challenge. If Neco requested to be part of Forest squad for this weekend to prove his fitness for the 2 qualifiers would you want Cooper to give him possibly 30 mins just interested to know what your national team supporters would want ?
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 26, 2023 21:31:55 GMT
Suprised to see Neco back in training but great news. Hard to judge on psychological affect until he has that first real proper physical aerial challenge. If Neco requested to be part of Forest squad for this weekend to prove his fitness for the 2 qualifiers would you want Cooper to give him possibly 30 mins just interested to know what your national team supporters would want ? It just depends on whether he's fit enough, my guess he isn't so I wouldn't want him being risked personally. I think there's probably an 80% chance he won't recover in time for the internationals anyway, just want to know where he's at before the squad is announced on the 30th |
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Post by rushy on May 27, 2023 11:58:38 GMT
There's no info on whether he's back in training which would have been mentioned in the press, so I doubt he'll be playing until next season, Page has allowed a problem to develop now, not with one but two of our players from the same club, that's poor management.
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Post by erasedcitizen on May 30, 2023 9:41:39 GMT
In the squad...
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Post by morg on May 30, 2023 12:27:34 GMT
Hope this selection has been done with full clarity on his current fitness. We shall see. Would be delighted if he has a part to play, but I have my doubts! I know stats can be made to 'prove' anything but data below is interesting. Tough tackling Neco! www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_tackle |
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Post by 60sred on May 30, 2023 14:11:35 GMT
Wales have over 2 weeks to test and assess Necos fitness. the playing of him all comes down to Page the medical team and the player. Forest dont appear to have made any statements at this moment about his inclusion. Wish the lad well and the correct decision is made based on what they see and the data they collect.
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Post by rushy on May 30, 2023 18:25:24 GMT
Wales have over 2 weeks to test and assess Necos fitness. the playing of him all comes down to Page the medical team and the player. Forest dont appear to have made any statements at this moment about his inclusion. Wish the lad well and the correct decision is made based on what they see and the data they collect. The lack of info is frustrating and it surprises me he's named in the squad tbh. |
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Post by 60sred on May 30, 2023 18:50:04 GMT
Just been looking what Page has said to the BBC. Neco is fit for camp and will be available for the qualifiers but may require to wear a protective mask. So maybe info has been passed between the club and national team but neither wanting to make a big deal out of it so who knows maybe all good going forward between Forest and your national side.
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Post by hooky on May 30, 2023 19:55:18 GMT
Lets just hope they make the best decision for Neco.
He has been concussed twice now within 6 months and has that awful injury. I would leave him rest it out over the summer.
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 30, 2023 23:20:12 GMT
Yeah not convinced we should be using him. Obviously the medical staff know best, but hope we err on the side of caution with him
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Post by iot on May 31, 2023 6:16:30 GMT
I don't really get the comments on this and think people might be overreacting slightly. There seems to be three concerns: the emotional turmoil from sustaining such an injury, the lack of fitness from lacking any minutes in May, and concerns around him having sustained two concussions in quick succession. The first of those seems to be a bit of an assumption on the fans' part. Neco hasn't said anything to that effect. He seems eager to be involved (the fact he wanted to get back involved in club training and reading between the lines from the interviews yesterday he's said as much to Page). So I think that's very likely a non issue. On the second issue, it would hardly be the first time we have a key player coming into the squad lacking match fitness. I think we all assumed the injury would mean he would be sidelined for at least 6-8 weeks, but I hadn't considered that he could get his body back in shape while his jaw is still healing. He's already returned to training so it certainly is not a reason to leave him out of the squad. The third one is a bigger concern with that concussion in the world cup and presumably in the latest incident, although I'd trust the medical staff to do the right thing by him.
So all in all, I think there's been a few assumptions that are likely wide of the mark. I'm surprised by the surprise of his inclusion! I think it's a close enough call between him and Roberts for him to start on the bench (given his lack of minutes) but he's a much greater attacking threat so he will be one if the first to come on if we're struggling. If he gets 30mins against Armenia, he might be in a position to compete for a starting spot out in Turkey even
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Post by bobbyghoul on May 31, 2023 6:41:11 GMT
If he's not fit then who plays LWB? It probably shouldn't be Davies who looks like a fish out if water when asked to be a wing back these days.
Or do we play a flat back 4 with Davies at LB?
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Post by 60sred on May 31, 2023 8:01:58 GMT
I don't really get the comments on this and think people might be overreacting slightly. There seems to be three concerns: the emotional turmoil from sustaining such an injury, the lack of fitness from lacking any minutes in May, and concerns around him having sustained two concussions in quick succession. The first of those seems to be a bit of an assumption on the fans' part. Neco hasn't said anything to that effect. He seems eager to be involved (the fact he wanted to get back involved in club training and reading between the lines from the interviews yesterday he's said as much to Page). So I think that's very likely a non issue. On the second issue, it would hardly be the first time we have a key player coming into the squad lacking match fitness. I think we all assumed the injury would mean he would be sidelined for at least 6-8 weeks, but I hadn't considered that he could get his body back in shape while his jaw is still healing. He's already returned to training so it certainly is not a reason to leave him out of the squad. The third one is a bigger concern with that concussion in the world cup and presumably in the latest incident, although I'd trust the medical staff to do the right thing by him. So all in all, I think there's been a few assumptions that are likely wide of the mark. I'm surprised by the surprise of his inclusion! I think it's a close enough call between him and Roberts for him to start on the bench (given his lack of minutes) but he's a much greater attacking threat so he will be one if the first to come on if we're struggling. If he gets 30mins against Armenia, he might be in a position to compete for a starting spot out in Turkey even Neco has had a difficult 12 months on and off the pitch. i was one of the suprised people not by his inclusion in the Wales squad but that he was back in training with Forest. You make a great point about his injuries and i must admit i would be against playing him. It is great for the lad that he is around the group and can be only good for his well being. Players always state how difficult it is with having a long term injury due to most of rehab time is one on one sessions. What i would like to see is the lad have a little bit more luck come back pre season fit a motivated to become a leader for his country and club for years to come as you may need him more in the games later in the year than the 2 coming up in June. |
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Post by iot on May 31, 2023 10:09:40 GMT
If he's not fit then who plays LWB? It probably shouldn't be Davies who looks like a fish out if water when asked to be a wing back these days. Or do we play a flat back 4 with Davies at LB? Judging by the last window, I'd be very surprised if we didn't play with a back 4. I know we had Davies out at that time, but I've assumed the formation we had in the first couple of fixtures will be the blueprint for the remainder of the campaign |
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Post by iot on May 31, 2023 10:14:43 GMT
I don't really get the comments on this and think people might be overreacting slightly. There seems to be three concerns: the emotional turmoil from sustaining such an injury, the lack of fitness from lacking any minutes in May, and concerns around him having sustained two concussions in quick succession. The first of those seems to be a bit of an assumption on the fans' part. Neco hasn't said anything to that effect. He seems eager to be involved (the fact he wanted to get back involved in club training and reading between the lines from the interviews yesterday he's said as much to Page). So I think that's very likely a non issue. On the second issue, it would hardly be the first time we have a key player coming into the squad lacking match fitness. I think we all assumed the injury would mean he would be sidelined for at least 6-8 weeks, but I hadn't considered that he could get his body back in shape while his jaw is still healing. He's already returned to training so it certainly is not a reason to leave him out of the squad. The third one is a bigger concern with that concussion in the world cup and presumably in the latest incident, although I'd trust the medical staff to do the right thing by him. So all in all, I think there's been a few assumptions that are likely wide of the mark. I'm surprised by the surprise of his inclusion! I think it's a close enough call between him and Roberts for him to start on the bench (given his lack of minutes) but he's a much greater attacking threat so he will be one if the first to come on if we're struggling. If he gets 30mins against Armenia, he might be in a position to compete for a starting spot out in Turkey even Neco has had a difficult 12 months on and off the pitch. i was one of the suprised people not by his inclusion in the Wales squad but that he was back in training with Forest. You make a great point about his injuries and i must admit i would be against playing him. It is great for the lad that he is around the group and can be only good for his well being. Players always state how difficult it is with having a long term injury due to most of rehab time is one on one sessions. What i would like to see is the lad have a little bit more luck come back pre season fit a motivated to become a leader for his country and club for years to come as you may need him more in the games later in the year than the 2 coming up in June. If you don't mind me saying, you sound like a supporter of a side who has the privilege of knowing they will qualify without having to worry too much. It's very different for us smaller nations. Every game in the campaign is massive for us, if we screw up one window then the whole campaign gets derailed very quickly. So we don't really have the privilege of leaving out an important player so that he can get himself into a better position for subsequent fixtures. We will be halfway through the campaign after this window and are up against our biggest rivals for qualifications. It's going to be very tight, so we need to throw everything at it. |
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Post by rushy on May 31, 2023 10:17:05 GMT
I don't really get the comments on this and think people might be overreacting slightly. There seems to be three concerns: the emotional turmoil from sustaining such an injury, the lack of fitness from lacking any minutes in May, and concerns around him having sustained two concussions in quick succession. The first of those seems to be a bit of an assumption on the fans' part. Neco hasn't said anything to that effect. He seems eager to be involved (the fact he wanted to get back involved in club training and reading between the lines from the interviews yesterday he's said as much to Page). So I think that's very likely a non issue. On the second issue, it would hardly be the first time we have a key player coming into the squad lacking match fitness. I think we all assumed the injury would mean he would be sidelined for at least 6-8 weeks, but I hadn't considered that he could get his body back in shape while his jaw is still healing. He's already returned to training so it certainly is not a reason to leave him out of the squad. The third one is a bigger concern with that concussion in the world cup and presumably in the latest incident, although I'd trust the medical staff to do the right thing by him. So all in all, I think there's been a few assumptions that are likely wide of the mark. I'm surprised by the surprise of his inclusion! I think it's a close enough call between him and Roberts for him to start on the bench (given his lack of minutes) but he's a much greater attacking threat so he will be one if the first to come on if we're struggling. If he gets 30mins against Armenia, he might be in a position to compete for a starting spot out in Turkey even Assumptions wide of the mark you say, yet you also say he's eager to be involved, even though Neco hasn't said anything at all in fact which makes your assumption wide of the mark also maybe. The real issue in this is that there has been no details published regarding the extent of the injury, if he has been named in the squad that could mean it's not as serious a break as was first feared, but as mentioned the lad has had two concerning head injuries that should be considered before allowing him to play again imo. I haven't seen any reports that he's back training or keeping himself fit as that is not a simple procedure with a broken face, however we'll all see what the real situation is in the next couple of weeks, if Page decides to tell us. |
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Post by 60sred on May 31, 2023 11:53:49 GMT
Neco has had a difficult 12 months on and off the pitch. i was one of the suprised people not by his inclusion in the Wales squad but that he was back in training with Forest. You make a great point about his injuries and i must admit i would be against playing him. It is great for the lad that he is around the group and can be only good for his well being. Players always state how difficult it is with having a long term injury due to most of rehab time is one on one sessions. What i would like to see is the lad have a little bit more luck come back pre season fit a motivated to become a leader for his country and club for years to come as you may need him more in the games later in the year than the 2 coming up in June. If you don't mind me saying, you sound like a supporter of a side who has the privilege of knowing they will qualify without having to worry too much. It's very different for us smaller nations. Every game in the campaign is massive for us, if we screw up one window then the whole campaign gets derailed very quickly. So we don't really have the privilege of leaving out an important player so that he can get himself into a better position for subsequent fixtures. We will be halfway through the campaign after this window and are up against our biggest rivals for qualifications. It's going to be very tight, so we need to throw everything at it. No i dont mind as i only take an interest in National sides which contains players from my club so will be looking forward to the u21s. i understand your logic about being a smaller nation but if Neco plays and things go wrong i hope Page is prepared to suffer the same amount of flack that Cooper got for playing Brennan as he thought he had to throw everything at it against Newcastle. |
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Post by iot on May 31, 2023 11:54:43 GMT
I don't really get the comments on this and think people might be overreacting slightly. There seems to be three concerns: the emotional turmoil from sustaining such an injury, the lack of fitness from lacking any minutes in May, and concerns around him having sustained two concussions in quick succession. The first of those seems to be a bit of an assumption on the fans' part. Neco hasn't said anything to that effect. He seems eager to be involved (the fact he wanted to get back involved in club training and reading between the lines from the interviews yesterday he's said as much to Page). So I think that's very likely a non issue. On the second issue, it would hardly be the first time we have a key player coming into the squad lacking match fitness. I think we all assumed the injury would mean he would be sidelined for at least 6-8 weeks, but I hadn't considered that he could get his body back in shape while his jaw is still healing. He's already returned to training so it certainly is not a reason to leave him out of the squad. The third one is a bigger concern with that concussion in the world cup and presumably in the latest incident, although I'd trust the medical staff to do the right thing by him. So all in all, I think there's been a few assumptions that are likely wide of the mark. I'm surprised by the surprise of his inclusion! I think it's a close enough call between him and Roberts for him to start on the bench (given his lack of minutes) but he's a much greater attacking threat so he will be one if the first to come on if we're struggling. If he gets 30mins against Armenia, he might be in a position to compete for a starting spot out in Turkey even Assumptions wide of the mark you say, yet you also say he's eager to be involved, even though Neco hasn't said anything at all in fact which makes your assumption wide of the mark also maybe. The real issue in this is that there has been no details published regarding the extent of the injury, if he has been named in the squad that could mean it's not as serious a break as was first feared, but as mentioned the lad has had two concerning head injuries that should be considered before allowing him to play again imo. I haven't seen any reports that he's back training or keeping himself fit as that is not a simple procedure with a broken face, however we'll all see what the real situation is in the next couple of weeks, if Page decides to tell us. Yes, obviously it's guesswork on both sides. But mine's based on the fact that he was involved in training with his club last week and that Page has spoken to him, said he was doing well, and went on to select him for the squad. I think that's a fairly strong basis to assume it hasn't been overly traumatic for him and that he's emotionally prepared to play again. What's your assumption based on? Just that it looked like a nasty injury? Obviously every individual will have a different response to an incident like that. I can't see any evidence that he's been affected on that sort of level. I'm not too precious about the lack of info reaching fans, although it would be helpful of course. Obviously the most important thing is for those communications to take place between our setup, the club, and Forest. Based on what Page was saying yesterday, that seems to have been the case. |
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Post by rushy on May 31, 2023 14:09:44 GMT
The only update I've found today is from Page, and the impression given is that it's him pushing for Neco to be involved in the squad but with no guarantee of him being fit enough to play, I haven't seen anything else.
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