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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 10, 2019 23:30:30 GMT
Give over, if your going to use the ‘anglo’ card then need I remind you that probably 1/4 of our squad are ‘anglo’s’ by birth. David Brooks only played for England youth a few years ago, so who cares about a bloody cap. If he can get us goals, I’m happy to see him play. Every "Anglo" in our squad now has played for our youth teams, so as far as I'm concerned they're born and raised Welsh. David Brooks decided to commit his future to Wales after making a youthful error of judgement and realised England wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Dummett, Vaulks & Moore are essentially freeloading cloggers who have had uneventful careers, realised they had a Nain they never met and have decided to use that for a bit of a profile boost. They've wasted half of their careers hoping the England call-up would come and then settled for us, but if England were sniffing around them they'd be scrambling down to Wembley. Glad Moore had all that practise being a freeloading clogger, as long as he keeps clogging the net up with headers like that... |
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Post by robin1864 on Oct 10, 2019 23:35:03 GMT
Every "Anglo" in our squad now has played for our youth teams, so as far as I'm concerned they're born and raised Welsh. David Brooks decided to commit his future to Wales after making a youthful error of judgement and realised England wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Dummett, Vaulks & Moore are essentially freeloading cloggers who have had uneventful careers, realised they had a Nain they never met and have decided to use that for a bit of a profile boost. They've wasted half of their careers hoping the England call-up would come and then settled for us, but if England were sniffing around them they'd be scrambling down to Wembley. Glad Moore had all that practise being a freeloading clogger, as long as he keeps clogging the net up with headers like that... Vokes-esque, so on that basis I give Kieffer a year or two before everyone on here hates his guts. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 11, 2019 1:33:16 GMT
I think some people have a bit of apologising to do... What a fantastic performance from big Kieff! My MOTM. Vokes couldn't dream of a performance like that in a Wales shirt. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Oct 11, 2019 6:04:36 GMT
Glad Moore had all that practise being a freeloading clogger, as long as he keeps clogging the net up with headers like that... Vokes-esque, so on that basis I give Kieffer a year or two before everyone on here hates his guts. You're missing the point. No one is professing that we have found a hidden gem. He has limitations and in games to come we will be rue his missed opportunities, poor touches, bad decision-making and so on. What we have now is a mobile centre-forward (therefore not exactly Vokes-esque), which is exactly what we need in a team full of pace on the wings. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Oct 11, 2019 7:15:18 GMT
Glad Moore had all that practise being a freeloading clogger, as long as he keeps clogging the net up with headers like that... Vokes-esque, so on that basis I give Kieffer a year or two before everyone on here hates his guts. Would it kill you to be positive for once? |
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Post by johnoster on Oct 11, 2019 7:22:02 GMT
How long did it take for everyone to hate Robin's guts?
Was about a week for me.
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Post by dai on Oct 11, 2019 8:03:36 GMT
Glad Moore had all that practise being a freeloading clogger, as long as he keeps clogging the net up with headers like that... Vokes-esque, so on that basis I give Kieffer a year or two before everyone on here hates his guts. Who's said they 'hate' any of our players' guts? You're just pissed 'cos Moore's just embarrassed you! Like gwernybwch said, despite his limitability, Moore is one of the most mobile centre forwards we've had in years. It was obvious how much better we played with someone like him leading the line. |
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Post by insertname on Oct 11, 2019 8:24:17 GMT
Vokes-esque, so on that basis I give Kieffer a year or two before everyone on here hates his guts. Who's said they 'hate' any of our players' guts? You're just pissed 'cos Moore's just embarrassed you! Like gwernybwch said, despite his limitability, Moore is one of the most mobile centre forwards we've had in years. It was obvious how much better we played with someone like him leading the line. *ahem* the one noticeable thing about Bradshaw was his movement- but he never got much of a chance to stake a claim due to injury and Coleman preferring his mates. I hope there is a lesson learnt from this that if that you don’t play friendlies and throw enough shit at the wall you will never see what sticks and whilst, yes, most of it will be crap with tenuous Welsh heritage to boot, occasionally one will turn out to be something of a find and so it has proved with Moore. Not a world beater but for now a more than decent upgrade on Vokes and totally justifies the process of casting a wide net to expand the player base. |
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Post by richierich333 on Oct 11, 2019 8:24:24 GMT
Twice in a row now I've seen us play much better with Moore up top. Robin you have to concede defeat with dignity on this one I'm afraid. Having a proper 9 is making a hell of a difference long may it continue!
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Post by dai on Oct 11, 2019 8:30:18 GMT
Who's said they 'hate' any of our players' guts? You're just pissed 'cos Moore's just embarrassed you! Like gwernybwch said, despite his limitability, Moore is one of the most mobile centre forwards we've had in years. It was obvious how much better we played with someone like him leading the line. *ahem* the one noticeable thing about Bradshaw was his movement- but he never got much of a chance to stake a claim due to injury and Coleman preferring his mates. I hope there is a lesson learnt from this that if that you don’t play friendlies and throw enough shit at the wall you will never see what sticks and whilst, yes, most of it will be crap with tenuous Welsh heritage to boot, occasionally one will turn out to be something of a find and so it has proved with Moore. Not a world beater but for now a more than decent upgrade on Vokes. Yeah I agree about Bradshaw, but he hasn't been given enough of a chance to show what he can do for us, so the jury's out for me on him for the time being. At least Moore's taken on a decent team in Slovakia and shown he's capable of handling it. |
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Post by rico on Oct 11, 2019 8:31:01 GMT
Think the main positive is we've now the option of a setup which involves playing a striker up top.
Was convinced Vokes was the right choice before KO but really surprised with how Moore played last night, played a great game (also love how ott Malcolm Allen went with praise).
Most surprising thing for me having not seen him that much is how mobile he is for a big CF.
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Post by robin1864 on Oct 11, 2019 9:57:28 GMT
How long did it take for everyone to hate Robin's guts? Was about a week for me. Not being a happy clapper and playing devil's advocate does have its downsides, but someone on here needed to offer an alternative view. |
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Post by robin1864 on Oct 11, 2019 10:17:37 GMT
Vokes-esque, so on that basis I give Kieffer a year or two before everyone on here hates his guts. Who's said they 'hate' any of our players' guts? You're just pissed 'cos Moore's just embarrassed you! Like gwernybwch said, despite his limitability, Moore is one of the most mobile centre forwards we've had in years. It was obvious how much better we played with someone like him leading the line. It's early days but yes, for a big bastard he can certainly move about. Disappointing to see so many rejoicing purely because you believe he's got one over on me, I'm sure he's got many more performances to give in a Wales shirt so will reserve judgement. It'll take more than a single goal to win me over I'm afraid gents. |
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Post by welshiron on Oct 11, 2019 16:29:08 GMT
It was a decent display but think people are getting carried away.
Not convinced he did a lot more than Vokes would of to be honest.
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Post by robin1864 on Oct 11, 2019 18:12:06 GMT
It was a decent display but think people are getting carried away. Not convinced he did a lot more than Vokes would of to be honest. Kieffer is the messiah, so begone with you naysayer! |
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Oct 11, 2019 18:30:28 GMT
Better movement and touch than Vokes to start with.
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Post by insertname on Oct 11, 2019 19:15:43 GMT
It was a decent display but think people are getting carried away. Not convinced he did a lot more than Vokes would of to be honest. You haven’t seen much of Vokes in a Wales shirt have you?  Vokes Toblerone forehead would have put that header over the bar or straight at the keeper. That alone justifies starting Moore until someone better comes along. |
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Post by welshiron on Oct 11, 2019 20:03:09 GMT
I actually go to games unlike yourself so have seen plenty of him.
I would put money on vokes scoring the header Moore did.
Moores touch wasnt great last night.
Wonder why one has played a lot of top flight football and on hasn't.
That being said moore has done well enough to keep his place.
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Post by alarch on Oct 11, 2019 21:35:11 GMT
Moore's touch was ordinary, but he was far more dominant in aerial challenges than Vokes and more mobile. And, a small detail, he scored on his first competitive appearance. I watched the match back and he was very unlucky not to get a second from that low cross from the right from Roberts. He had a lovely flick (nice touch that) that could easily have gone through the goalies legs - as it was the goalie got lucky.
I'm not sure I'd play him against Croatia mind, not least because he'll struggle to replicate his work rate against Slovakia. Slovakia are weak across their defence, even Skriniar is statistically weak in the air - so it was no surprise that Moore got so much joy. Croatia should be stronger in that department. But he's certainly an option for us going forwards.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 11, 2019 21:45:02 GMT
Moore's touch was ordinary, but he was far more dominant in aerial challenges than Vokes and more mobile. And, a small detail, he scored on his first competitive appearance. I watched the match back and he was very unlucky not to get a second from that low cross from the right from Roberts. He had a lovely flick (nice touch that) that could easily have gone through the goalies legs - as it was the goalie got lucky. I'm not sure I'd play him against Croatia mind, not least because he'll struggle to replicate his work rate against Slovakia. Slovakia are weak across their defence, even Skriniar is statistically weak in the air - so it was no surprise that Moore got so much joy. Croatia should be stronger in that department. But he's certainly an option for us going forwards. I agree. I think he should go with Bale up top against that strong Croatia side and start Wilson or Matondo on one wing with James on the other, as harsh as that may seem on Moore. |
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Post by insertname on Oct 11, 2019 22:34:33 GMT
I actually go to games unlike yourself so have seen plenty of him. I would put money on vokes scoring the header Moore did. Moores touch wasnt great last night. Wonder why one has played a lot of top flight football and on hasn't. That being said moore has done well enough to keep his place. I bow to your “in the flesh” appraisal because if I had paid to see Vokes as much as you obviously have I wouldn’t be here now as I would have succumbed to a heart attack brought on by acute rage. He’s not good enough. Never has been. Finally we have a striker who can show Vokes how it should be done. However it if was down to you Moore would have been nowhere near the first XI yesterday which says it all. It must suck to be so wrong and you have my sympathies for that. |
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Post by insertname on Oct 11, 2019 22:42:46 GMT
Moore's touch was ordinary, but he was far more dominant in aerial challenges than Vokes and more mobile. And, a small detail, he scored on his first competitive appearance. I watched the match back and he was very unlucky not to get a second from that low cross from the right from Roberts. He had a lovely flick (nice touch that) that could easily have gone through the goalies legs - as it was the goalie got lucky. I'm not sure I'd play him against Croatia mind, not least because he'll struggle to replicate his work rate against Slovakia. Slovakia are weak across their defence, even Skriniar is statistically weak in the air - so it was no surprise that Moore got so much joy. Croatia should be stronger in that department. But he's certainly an option for us going forwards. Good movement transcends quality defences. I pointed out how his movement gave us an option against Azerbaijan but the likes of Allen were too slow/reluctant to take advantage. |
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Post by alarch on Oct 12, 2019 8:07:36 GMT
Moore's touch was ordinary, but he was far more dominant in aerial challenges than Vokes and more mobile. And, a small detail, he scored on his first competitive appearance. I watched the match back and he was very unlucky not to get a second from that low cross from the right from Roberts. He had a lovely flick (nice touch that) that could easily have gone through the goalies legs - as it was the goalie got lucky. I'm not sure I'd play him against Croatia mind, not least because he'll struggle to replicate his work rate against Slovakia. Slovakia are weak across their defence, even Skriniar is statistically weak in the air - so it was no surprise that Moore got so much joy. Croatia should be stronger in that department. But he's certainly an option for us going forwards. I agree. I think he should go with Bale up top against that strong Croatia side and start Wilson or Matondo on one wing with James on the other, as harsh as that may seem on Moore. Are you advocating a 4-4-2 against Croatia? I hope not, because they have enough quality in midfield to overrun us at the best of times without being completely open. 4-4-2 can work - but not with Moore's limited mobility (let's not overstate his mobility - he has good mobility for a player of his size, but Jamie Vardy he ain't), and Gareth Bale, who is poor at the closing down stuff. It would be like playing a 4-4-0 formation against one of the best midfields in international football. There may be something for going with a 4-4-1-1 again - especially if Ramsey isn't able to play or start. Jonny Williams could then be given the thankless task of harrying Modric - assuming he plays deeper. Alternatively, we could even go with a 4-5-1. Very negative, but we need a draw, and if Azerbaijan can frustrate us and Croatia with a congested defensive setup then perhaps we can too. As we showed against Slovakia we still have plenty of counter-attacking ability. With a 4-5-1 we could play Jonny Williams and Ampadu/Ramsey either side of Allen, which would give us the bodies to deny Croatia dominance in midfield, plenty of footballing ability to bring the ball out from the back, pace on the wings, and a focal point up front in Moore, or Vokes if Moore isn't fit to start. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 12, 2019 10:55:20 GMT
I agree. I think he should go with Bale up top against that strong Croatia side and start Wilson or Matondo on one wing with James on the other, as harsh as that may seem on Moore. Are you advocating a 4-4-2 against Croatia? I hope not, because they have enough quality in midfield to overrun us at the best of times without being completely open. 4-4-2 can work - but not with Moore's limited mobility (let's not overstate his mobility - he has good mobility for a player of his size, but Jamie Vardy he ain't), and Gareth Bale, who is poor at the closing down stuff. It would be like playing a 4-4-0 formation against one of the best midfields in international football. There may be something for going with a 4-4-1-1 again - especially if Ramsey isn't able to play or start. Jonny Williams could then be given the thankless task of harrying Modric - assuming he plays deeper. Alternatively, we could even go with a 4-5-1. Very negative, but we need a draw, and if Azerbaijan can frustrate us and Croatia with a congested defensive setup then perhaps we can too. As we showed against Slovakia we still have plenty of counter-attacking ability. With a 4-5-1 we could play Jonny Williams and Ampadu/Ramsey either side of Allen, which would give us the bodies to deny Croatia dominance in midfield, plenty of footballing ability to bring the ball out from the back, pace on the wings, and a focal point up front in Moore, or Vokes if Moore isn't fit to start. I personally don't see a distinction between 4-5-1 and 4-4-1-1. I know what you are saying about having two CM's either side of a DM so it's flatter on paper, but what happens if a Croatian player drops into the pocket to receive from the defenders, then you need one of the flat 3 to step out engage that player. I just see 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 as essentially the same formation, just different roles/responsibilities given to the players. We have to go man for man against Croatia in the middle, but a high press is not a good idea against a team like this. For me, we need to go for a low block, let their centre halves have the ball, and just try our best to limit their midfield three. If we can do that and limit the space in behind then we can catch them on the break. I think we will still be reliant on them having an off day, or us getting a bit of luck. Definitely winnable though, as Azerbaijan have shown by getting a draw against them. I'd be interested to see how Lovren/Vida deal with Moore. I'm not sure they will be used to playing against a target man so much. Moore has 3 inches on Lovren, and 5 inches on Vida. So we could get some joy there. Especially from set pieces where we now suddenly look like quite a tall team with Moore and Rodon in there. |
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Post by welshiron on Oct 12, 2019 11:15:36 GMT
I actually go to games unlike yourself so have seen plenty of him. I would put money on vokes scoring the header Moore did. Moores touch wasnt great last night. Wonder why one has played a lot of top flight football and on hasn't. That being said moore has done well enough to keep his place. I bow to your “in the flesh” appraisal because if I had paid to see Vokes as much as you obviously have I wouldn’t be here now as I would have succumbed to a heart attack brought on by acute rage. He’s not good enough. Never has been. Finally we have a striker who can show Vokes how it should be done. However it if was down to you Moore would have been nowhere near the first XI yesterday which says it all. It must suck to be so wrong and you have my sympathies for that. No need to bow 🙈 Vokes has scored 11 international goals as well as goals in the premier league. If Vokes had played it would of still been 1-1. Not sure if you've seen his goal against Belgium in a quarter final. Moore justified his selection but to say he is head and shoulders ahead of Vokes is nonsense and their careers are proof of that. |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 12, 2019 11:21:18 GMT
I bow to your “in the flesh” appraisal because if I had paid to see Vokes as much as you obviously have I wouldn’t be here now as I would have succumbed to a heart attack brought on by acute rage. He’s not good enough. Never has been. Finally we have a striker who can show Vokes how it should be done. However it if was down to you Moore would have been nowhere near the first XI yesterday which says it all. It must suck to be so wrong and you have my sympathies for that. No need to bow 🙈 Vokes has scored 11 international goals as well as goals in the premier league. If Vokes had played it would of still been 1-1. Not sure if you've seen his goal against Belgium in a quarter final. Moore justified his selection but to say he is head and shoulders ahead of Vokes is nonsense and their careers are proof of that. I think what you can say is Moore's more mobile than Vokes in open play, from what we've seen so far. |
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Post by dai on Oct 12, 2019 11:28:24 GMT
I bow to your “in the flesh” appraisal because if I had paid to see Vokes as much as you obviously have I wouldn’t be here now as I would have succumbed to a heart attack brought on by acute rage. He’s not good enough. Never has been. Finally we have a striker who can show Vokes how it should be done. However it if was down to you Moore would have been nowhere near the first XI yesterday which says it all. It must suck to be so wrong and you have my sympathies for that. No need to bow 🙈 Vokes has scored 11 international goals as well as goals in the premier league. If Vokes had played it would of still been 1-1. Not sure if you've seen his goal against Belgium in a quarter final. Moore justified his selection but to say he is head and shoulders ahead of Vokes is nonsense and their careers are proof of that. Fair points, and maybe Vokes would have scored that header as well. But that 1/4 final header was 3.5 years ago. Since then Vokes slowly declined, and become slower and less agile - I've seen JCB's turn faster. I suppose Giggs hasn't really given Vokes a proper go either. I don't think Moore is head and shoulders ahead of Vokes either, but while one player is on the decline, the other is on the up. I'd personally start Moore again, just to see what he's capable of against a higher quality team. It may be a one off, who knows, but he deserves to keep his place imo. |
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Post by welshiron on Oct 12, 2019 11:29:55 GMT
Wouldn't start moore but would be ahead of Vokes if a plan b is needed for this game.
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Post by richierich333 on Oct 12, 2019 12:07:22 GMT
If Bale plays up top (which i previously campaigned for and have since changed my mind) then he will get completely isolated. He's wasted with his back to goal and we need him to get involved more than he has been for the past year.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 13, 2019 10:04:33 GMT
I agree. I think he should go with Bale up top against that strong Croatia side and start Wilson or Matondo on one wing with James on the other, as harsh as that may seem on Moore. Are you advocating a 4-4-2 against Croatia? No. A 4231 or 4213, whichever you prefer. Hennessey Roberts Lockyer Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen James Ramsey Wilson Bale |
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Vokes Toblerone forehead would have put that header over the bar or straight at the keeper. That alone justifies starting Moore until someone better comes along.