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Post by quetzal on Sept 6, 2019 20:46:04 GMT
That game has made me feel the most depressed about Welsh football since 2005 Pretty similar feel to Andorra game
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Post by insertname on Sept 6, 2019 20:47:12 GMT
Was there any player on that pitch that had a grasp of the basics? As much as I don’t see much positive about Giggs he can’t pass the flaming ball for them. Couldn’t pass wind, that lot. They all can play, they’re good players. Giggs has to shoulder this, he is infuriating and seems to have no grasp of football. Instinctice flair players like Giggs rarely make good managers. He’ll be spouting vague cliches that don’t mean anythinf post match in a few minutes now no doubt. Best we’ve seen Bale in a while, and Jonny made a big difference. So it’s Giggs fault that our players can barely pass a ball? I’m no fan of Giggs by any means but the Wales players tonight need to have a good long look at themselves for their contribution. How much are they paid? Yet we can’t even take a decent corner! Taylor gifts them a goal, Hennessy tries to gift them another, barely a decent final ball to our name and yet it’s all Giggs fault? Gimme a break....
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Post by dai on Sept 6, 2019 20:47:33 GMT
Was there any player on that pitch that had a grasp of the basics? As much as I don’t see much positive about Giggs he can’t pass the flaming ball for them. Couldn’t pass wind, that lot. C’mon, if Coleman was in charge you’d be hammering him on here tonight.
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Post by dai on Sept 6, 2019 20:48:54 GMT
Small countries like us rely a lot on heart and spirit, Giggs doesn’t instill this at all. Get him the fuck out.
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Post by insertname on Sept 6, 2019 20:52:56 GMT
Was there any player on that pitch that had a grasp of the basics? As much as I don’t see much positive about Giggs he can’t pass the flaming ball for them. Couldn’t pass wind, that lot. C’mon, if Coleman was in charge you’d be hammering him on here tonight. If Coleman was in charge we would have barely got out of our half because of our emphasis on defensive rigidity above all else- even at home against the minnows and whilst that was alright to get to the Euros I couldn’t support that much longer. Although it sounds like you think I’m defending Giggs, in general I’m not but I think the rest of you are far too protective of the players- they were crap tonight for the most part. When you can’t do the basics it doesn’t matter what your plan or strategy is it’s not going to work because you’re never going to score a goal if you can’t pass, get men in the box, take a corner etc. How any of that is Giggs’s fault I don’t know but I’m sure you’ll figure out a way to blame it on him.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 6, 2019 20:53:41 GMT
That game has made me feel the most depressed about Welsh football since 2005 Pretty similar feel to Andorra game Shocking to compare the circumstances.
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Post by pendragon on Sept 6, 2019 20:55:52 GMT
In other news, Slovakia defeated 4-0 at home by Croatia.
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 6, 2019 20:55:52 GMT
I miss the days of feeling pride after a Wales match, now the best I can hope for is relief. The FAW have to face tough decisions now. We won but that was horrendous. A freak own goal and that second goal was lucky. They need to stop redesigning badges and coming up with marketing strategies and face facts that Giggs is a disaster.
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Post by insertname on Sept 6, 2019 20:57:58 GMT
Small countries like us rely a lot on heart and spirit, Giggs doesn’t instill this at all. Get him the fuck out. Why is it down to Giggs to give the players heart though? The players should be busting a gut to play for their country. Giggs seems very uninspiring don’t get me wrong...but I think that particular narrative is again putting responsibility on the manager for something that the players should do naturally. Northern Ireland don’t need slogans like “Together Stronger” to motivate themselves. They do it naturally because what they lack in skill they make up for in heart. We’re looking at it wrong if we need to create some kind of advertising campaign or looking to the manager to inspire us. We don’t seem to have a strong character on the pitch to kick some ass and remind them all that it’s a must win qualifier and they need to get their heads in the game. I guess that would have been Williams.
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Post by dai on Sept 6, 2019 21:03:30 GMT
On some of the players;
Taylor is not good enough to start.
Ive mentioned this numerous times, Ampadu isnt good enough, Smith is a better option.
Harry Wilson isn’t a team player.
Allen has worryingly regressed, the effects of playing (or mot playing) for Stoke
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Post by pendragon on Sept 6, 2019 21:04:37 GMT
I didn't have a major issue with the line-up. Here's hoping he was taking on board the criticism levelled at James Lawrence. He was also prepared to change things quickly after the equaliser.
But where was the strategy? Where was the game plan?
For me, Johnny Williams and Bale shone for us tonight but we still have this habit of conceding possession, and the passing was dire at times - that's on the players.
Overall, we were lacking ambition tonight and missing Brooksy, Rambo and possibly Ash.
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Post by zenith on Sept 6, 2019 21:10:35 GMT
Honestly abysmal
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Post by alarch on Sept 6, 2019 21:13:29 GMT
Small countries like us rely a lot on heart and spirit, Giggs doesn’t instill this at all. Get him the fuck out. Why is it down to Giggs to give the players heart though? The players should be busting a gut to play for their country. Giggs seems very uninspiring don’t get me wrong...but I think that particular narrative is again putting responsibility on the manager for something that the players should do naturally. Northern Ireland don’t need slogans like “Together Stronger” to motivate themselves. They do it naturally because what they lack in skill they make up for in heart. We’re looking at it wrong if we need to create some kind of advertising campaign or looking to the manager to inspire us. We don’t seem to have a strong character on the pitch to kick some ass and remind them all that it’s a must win qualifier and they need to get their heads in the game. I guess that would have been Williams. You really are missing the point big time. Yes, there were a lot of poor individual performances which isn't entirely down to Giggs - and if this was a one-off then perhaps Giggs could be excused. But we've been equally clueless against Denmark twice and in the recent double-header. There is no shape or pattern to how we play. To perform, a team needs to understand and buy into what the manager is proposing by way of a game plan. The performances of this Welsh team demonstrate unequivocally that the team have no faith or belief in the manager and his game plan. When you don't believe in the tactics what do you do when things go wrong? Just devise a game plan on the pitch on an entirely ad hoc basis? Against opposition that are properly prepared? The FAW need to be brave and sack Giggs immediately. It says it all that I'd rather have Pulis as manager, and I would hate that.
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Post by insertname on Sept 6, 2019 21:23:42 GMT
Why is it down to Giggs to give the players heart though? The players should be busting a gut to play for their country. Giggs seems very uninspiring don’t get me wrong...but I think that particular narrative is again putting responsibility on the manager for something that the players should do naturally. Northern Ireland don’t need slogans like “Together Stronger” to motivate themselves. They do it naturally because what they lack in skill they make up for in heart. We’re looking at it wrong if we need to create some kind of advertising campaign or looking to the manager to inspire us. We don’t seem to have a strong character on the pitch to kick some ass and remind them all that it’s a must win qualifier and they need to get their heads in the game. I guess that would have been Williams. You really are missing the point big time. Yes, there were a lot of poor individual performances which isn't entirely down to Giggs - and if this was a one-off then perhaps Giggs could be excused. But we've been equally clueless against Denmark twice and in the recent double-header. There is no shape or pattern to how we play. To perform, a team needs to understand and buy into what the manager is proposing by way of a game plan. The performances of this Welsh team demonstrate unequivocally that the team have no faith or belief in the manager and his game plan. When you don't believe in the tactics what do you do when things go wrong? Just devise a game plan on the pitch on an entirely ad hoc basis? Against opposition that are properly prepared? The FAW need to be brave and sack Giggs immediately. It says it all that I'd rather have Pulis as manager, and I would hate that. I agree with most of that but I have to say I lost count of the amount of times I cursed at simple, basic stuff like a five yard pass missing the man or a corner badly hit just when momentum was being built. Are you really saying that’s down to tactics?
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 6, 2019 21:24:12 GMT
Small countries like us rely a lot on heart and spirit, Giggs doesn’t instill this at all. Get him the fuck out. Why is it down to Giggs to give the players heart though? The players should be busting a gut to play for their country. Giggs seems very uninspiring don’t get me wrong...but I think that particular narrative is again putting responsibility on the manager for something that the players should do naturally. Northern Ireland don’t need slogans like “Together Stronger” to motivate themselves. They do it naturally because what they lack in skill they make up for in heart. We’re looking at it wrong if we need to create some kind of advertising campaign or looking to the manager to inspire us. We don’t seem to have a strong character on the pitch to kick some ass and remind them all that it’s a must win qualifier and they need to get their heads in the game. I guess that would have been Williams. Maybe he just drains the atmosphere from the camp? Not saying he does but it can happen. These are the players who would run through a brick wall for Coleman.
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Post by alarch on Sept 6, 2019 21:28:44 GMT
I agree with most of that but I have to say I lost count of the amount of times I cursed at simple, basic stuff like a five yard pass missing the man or a corner badly hit just when momentum was being built. Are you really saying that’s down to tactics? I ahare your frustration, and yes, of course you can't blame Giggs entirely. But this is what happens when a team goes out on the pitch without any belief. When a team loses faith in a manager (or never has it in the first place) how can you play with confidence and express yourself? What pains me so much is knowing if Potter was manager of this side, or even Steve Cooper, we would be a good outfit. Look what a difference Koeman has made to the Netherlands - who totally outplayed Germany tonight - the 4-2 defeat flattered them.
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Post by texan on Sept 6, 2019 21:30:59 GMT
Small countries like us rely a lot on heart and spirit, Giggs doesn’t instill this at all. Get him the fuck out. Why is it down to Giggs to give the players heart though? The players should be busting a gut to play for their country. Giggs seems very uninspiring don’t get me wrong...but I think that particular narrative is again putting responsibility on the manager for something that the players should do naturally. Northern Ireland don’t need slogans like “Together Stronger” to motivate themselves. They do it naturally because what they lack in skill they make up for in heart. We’re looking at it wrong if we need to create some kind of advertising campaign or looking to the manager to inspire us. We don’t seem to have a strong character on the pitch to kick some ass and remind them all that it’s a must win qualifier and they need to get their heads in the game. I guess that would have been Williams. Sorry, but I can't agree with that! To punch above your weight you need a strategic foundation to start from, a starting point. These guys aren't even reaching the sum of their parts but tou could clearly see they were gasping to succeed but were exasperated and frustrated. Not only has Giggs not given them the platform they need he seems to have taken away the one they already had under Coleman. Most of these players have already proven their quality, but they're getting worse. We're looking more and more like strangers with every passing game. We have no pattern to our play, no shape, bo structure...I don't know what I'm watching anymore...it certainly isn't the Wales I know! All this comes from the manager, he started strongly and got progressively worse, how can that be? Possibly because as he instills his ideas they make less and less sense to the players? Possjbly thst he doesn't actually have a clue where he wants to take this team tactically and is in fact firefighting? I've given the guy 18 months, I'm done...get him the fuck out and someone who actually is familiar with the Welsh Way in!
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 6, 2019 21:35:45 GMT
Why is it down to Giggs to give the players heart though? The players should be busting a gut to play for their country. Giggs seems very uninspiring don’t get me wrong...but I think that particular narrative is again putting responsibility on the manager for something that the players should do naturally. Northern Ireland don’t need slogans like “Together Stronger” to motivate themselves. They do it naturally because what they lack in skill they make up for in heart. We’re looking at it wrong if we need to create some kind of advertising campaign or looking to the manager to inspire us. We don’t seem to have a strong character on the pitch to kick some ass and remind them all that it’s a must win qualifier and they need to get their heads in the game. I guess that would have been Williams. Maybe he just drains the atmosphere from the camp? Not saying he does but it can happen. These are the players who would run through a brick wall for Coleman. Also we didn’t become successful because somebody created a slogan. I imagine Together Stronger was taken loosely from Gorau Chwarae Cyd Chwarae to sell tickets and advertise for the fans to get behind the team. Together Stronger became what it was by the home match against Belgium, going to Israel and hammering the group leaders. We supported the players, they won, we sang louder, they worked harder for us. No one was ever motivated by the words Together Stronger until it was used to describe everything good in Welsh football.
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Post by pendragon on Sept 6, 2019 21:42:50 GMT
That game has made me feel the most depressed about Welsh football since 2005 Pretty similar feel to Andorra game I'm feeling the 1-0 away defeat to Albania...
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Post by insertname on Sept 6, 2019 21:45:13 GMT
I ahare your frustration, and yes, of course you can't blame Giggs entirely. But this is what happens when a team goes out on the pitch without any belief. When a team loses faith in a manager (or never has it in the first place) how can you play with confidence and express yourself? What pains me so much is knowing if Potter was manager of this side, or even Steve Cooper, we would be a good outfit. Look what a difference Koeman has made to the Netherlands - who totally outplayed Germany tonight - the 4-2 defeat flattered them. I think we would all trade Cooper in for Giggs right now- more chance of Lord Lucan making a comeback on Shergar though! Giggs spoke of luck in his post match interview which is not a good look imo. But we are stuck with him, we know that, he isn’t going anywhere. So there is even more need for the players to step up and be counted and bring their A game. Taylor and Hennessy for a start did as much to wreck things as Giggs did tonight, but we ground out a win eventually and now the immediate anger has abated we have to move on and start looking at whatever positives there are. Mainly that we looked alright defensively...for about 60 minutes anyway!
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Post by insertname on Sept 6, 2019 21:57:49 GMT
Maybe he just drains the atmosphere from the camp? Not saying he does but it can happen. These are the players who would run through a brick wall for Coleman. Also we didn’t become successful because somebody created a slogan. I imagine Together Stronger was taken loosely from Gorau Chwarae Cyd Chwarae to sell tickets and advertise for the fans to get behind the team. Together Stronger became what it was by the home match against Belgium, going to Israel and hammering the group leaders. We supported the players, they won, we sang louder, they worked harder for us. No one was ever motivated by the words Together Stronger until it was used to describe everything good in Welsh football. I think you got the origins right but to my mind it took on a life of it’s own during the Euros with it being used almost like a carrot to motivate the team. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself but looking at the Northern Irish during the Euros it made me wonder why we all rallied round a banner while the Irish didn’t didn’t need one...they just...supported theor team and their players ran through brick walls. Then post Euros because we started dropping results and Coleman left etc I recall people making a big deal about how it was no longer Together Stronger, it was like when Samson cut his hair and lost his strength! In general the players should be busting a gut even if they have no faith in the manager. To smaller nations like ourselves pride in yourself is massive and has done more for countries like Northern Ireland on the pitch than tactics or any other factor.
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 6, 2019 21:58:11 GMT
Pretty similar feel to Andorra game I'm feeling the 1-0 away defeat to Albania... Hungary away for me. That was a competitive must not lose match. Albania was depressing but I just kept telling myself it’s only a friendly.
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Post by oscardelta on Sept 6, 2019 22:08:15 GMT
While reading all you guys (and girls) beating yourselfs up (Is footie fans beating themselves (rather than others) up ..... Hooliganism ?) the stark reality is a WIN IS A WIN.
No matter how pretty or ugly it is, I will always take a win v a defeat.
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 6, 2019 22:09:45 GMT
Also we didn’t become successful because somebody created a slogan. I imagine Together Stronger was taken loosely from Gorau Chwarae Cyd Chwarae to sell tickets and advertise for the fans to get behind the team. Together Stronger became what it was by the home match against Belgium, going to Israel and hammering the group leaders. We supported the players, they won, we sang louder, they worked harder for us. No one was ever motivated by the words Together Stronger until it was used to describe everything good in Welsh football. I think you got the origins right but to my mind it took on a life of it’s own during the Euros with it being used almost like a carrot to motivate the team. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself but looking at the Northern Irish during the Euros it made me wonder why we all rallied round a banner while the Irish didn’t didn’t need one...they just...supported theor team and their players ran through brick walls. Then post Euros because we started dropping results and Coleman left etc I recall people making a big deal about how it was no longer Together Stronger, it was like when Samson cut his hair and lost his strength! In general the players should be busting a gut even if they have no faith in the manager. To smaller nations like ourselves pride in yourself is massive and has done more for countries like Northern Ireland on the pitch than tactics or any other factor. Yeah definitely, it will always only be as good as what it means to the people using it. I’d personally be motivated only by the fact I’m representing my nation. I do feel though that if you show up for the camp and the spirit isn’t there, training sessions are not up to standard, team debriefing is dull, team talk is uninspiring, no real emotion in the team, how much can you keep your spirits up? I’d love to know what Bale, Williams, Gunter, Allen, Ramsey, Davies really think of the set up.
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 6, 2019 22:14:59 GMT
While reading all you guys beating yourselfs up (Is footie fans beating themselves (rather than others) up ..... Hooliganism ?) the stark reality is a WIN IS A WIN. No matter how pretty or ugly it is, I will always take a win v a defeat. I’m happy with the win, delighted! But if we think we can’t learn anything from that because we won then we got no chance to qualify. The ones looking hardest at this should be the FAW.
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Post by pendragon on Sept 6, 2019 22:23:02 GMT
Has anyone heard Giggs' post-match interview?
Claims that they had a game plan but too many individuals did "their own thing".
Here's looking at you Harry!
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Post by hal on Sept 6, 2019 22:25:56 GMT
Can anyone honestly say they knew what Giggs tactics were tonight? He was trying to make the pitch as big as possible, but yet we had no runners through the middle, or people picking the ball up where the spaces were created by our two best players being on the touch line completely out of the game. I understand there has to be a transition period between managers, but nobody can accept that performance tonight, yes the players have to take the blame, but the managers tactics were atrocious.
Did anyone notice Allen and Wilson were taking all the throw ins past the half way line, what the hell is all that about???
I didn’t even celebrate when we scored the two goals tonight because we didn’t deserve it, I got up and clapped but for a usual 88th minute winner I would be hugging anyone next to me, I didn’t get that need tonight. You can say it’s hard to play against teams who sit 11 men behind the ball, however they didn’t do that, they played the better football as deserved something out of the game.
Atrocious game, atrocious performance, GIGGS OUT
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Post by alarch on Sept 6, 2019 22:26:47 GMT
Not the first time Giggs has blamed the players - always a sign of a failing manager. I've never heard Giggs say anything self-critical about his team selections or tactics. He must have zero respect in the dressing room.
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Post by welshiron on Sept 6, 2019 22:27:20 GMT
On some of the players; Taylor is not good enough to start. Ive mentioned this numerous times, Ampadu isnt good enough, Smith is a better option. Harry Wilson isn’t a team player. Allen has worryingly regressed, the effects of playing (or mot playing) for Stoke Smith better than Ampadu you sir are deluded.
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Post by welshiron on Sept 6, 2019 22:28:20 GMT
Giggs. Just fuck off back to manchester. You are out if your depth and taking us back to the Goulden days.
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