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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 6, 2019 22:31:37 GMT
Has anyone heard Giggs' post-match interview? Claims that they had a game plan but too many individuals did "their own thing". Here's looking at you Harry! That tells you all you need to know about the amount of faith they have in the manager Giggs either goes, or grows a backbone and stops speaking in meaningless cliches
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 6, 2019 22:35:35 GMT
Not the first time Giggs has blamed the players - always a sign of a failing manager. I've never heard Giggs say anything self-critical about his team selections or tactics. He must have zero respect in the dressing room. Giggs then went on to add his game plan all along was to shoot at the back of the Azerbaijan players heads to confuse their goalkeeper. He also sent on Big Sam Vokes to cause havoc in the Azerbaijan penalty area and was delighted his change of tactics won them the game.
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Post by pendragon on Sept 6, 2019 22:36:34 GMT
I agree unfortunately. Although he has a point with Harry being lucky not to be carded. His comment could be perceived as a failure to maintain discipline. Would be better to address it with the players as well, rather than the media. Reminds me a lot of the post Albania game interview.
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Post by zenith on Sept 6, 2019 22:51:24 GMT
The biggest worry for me tonight was Hennessey. He was appalling tonight, nothing to do and makes two woeful errors that almost cost us.
Makes it worse when there is no competition for his place at all. He is near the end on the back of that.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 6, 2019 22:54:17 GMT
Very lucky win tonight no doubt. I think the decision not to go with a genuine number 10 in Jonny showed. He's my man of the match just for the directness he gave us when he came on. I certainly wouldn't play Lawrence up top again.
The reason why we didn't play like we played against Ireland tonight is simple; no Ramsey. He's our most important player now, absolutely no doubt in my mind. We've made it to the half way point in the campaign with Rambo not having played a minute, and we're still in it. That's a positive to me. I think when he's on the pitch he'll link it all together with quality at both ends. Despite this, not a good performance tonight, and I still think more players need to step up, but with an average age of 23 tonight I think we need to be positive about the fact that we've ground out a win, and are much better placed for a top two finish after tonight all in all.
Still not convinced by Giggs after tonight, but lets be happy for the young lads out there that have tried their hardest and dug out a win for their country.
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Post by zakbaby on Sept 6, 2019 22:57:32 GMT
Hennesey 3 Soft goal. Should have gathered the shot that was straight at him. What was he thinking with that pass in the end? Ward needs his chance now. But Ward also needs to show ambition and get a move for a regular game. Roberts 6 Tried and worked hard. No more you say Taylor 4 Couldn't get forward and massive error for goal. Rodon 6 Showed a bit of passion, made some nice forward runs and should have had a shot after one run to the edge of the box. Mepham 6 Another youngster finding his feet but like Rodon was let down by much more experienced players around him Ampadu 7 Already head and shoulders above all his team mates. Tackled everything and was only one you come out with any credit(JW aside) Allen 4 Showed why he plays for Stoke. On this showing alone, he is on the slide. My Euro 16 rose tinted glasses well and truly off Lawrence 4 Not good enough. Full stop. Wilson 3 U tube footballer. 3 corners in a row low to nobody at near post. Produced nothing. Never rated him. This is why James 5 Tried but gave the ball away every time he had it. Another youngster learning his trade but needs to bring his club game to the international stage. Bale 5 Would it be too much to ask him to beat a man like he used to? Face saving goal but that's 3 awful games in a row. Subs Williams 7 I think he is overated on this forum but by fuck, didn't he provide a spark when he came in. Everything Bale should have done. Direct running with pace and trickery. Can he stay fit and forfil his potential? Let's hope so. Vokes 6 When your not creating then the only option from the bench. Davies 5 As bad as Taylor was, a strange sub from Giggs. No time to settle and was okkff the pace Giggs 3 Couldn't argue with his starting line up but we look like a Sunday league team that the manager has just picked his best 11 players and said get out there and win. What were the tactics? Slow build up play, square passing around the back for the sake of it. I know he can't control the awful passing of the players tonight but my fear that he is out of his depth just gets stronger with every game. When you need a bizarre own goal and a late scramble to beat that lot them you know your in the shit. The FAW should at the very least be asking for a press explain. PR mans and wet dream gone wrong. What other nation employs managers with no experience what so ever? This will end in tears. Guaranteed
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Post by rushy on Sept 6, 2019 22:58:06 GMT
Plenty of youthful exuberance to be seen, but lacking in cohesion, players need to be comfortable in their minds with what is required of them as individuals, and in the roles they are given, be confident in the set up and in their team mates, I dont see that in our displays with Giggs. He has his ace card to play though should we fail to qualify, by using inexperience as his excuse. Therefore its a question of giving him time to make things work, which will undoubtedly mean sacrificing qualification of this Euro campaign imo, or biting the bullet and get someone in who will at least deploy a system that everyone understands, though not necessarily achieve the results required. We all know, they wont have the bottle to sack him anytime soon, they will wait until the results are beyond embarrassment in the next campaign....probably.
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Post by zenith on Sept 6, 2019 23:04:20 GMT
Hennessey 1 Roberts 7 Mepham 6 Rodon 7 Taylor 3 Allen 5 Ampadu 6 Wilson 5 Bale 8 - MOTM Lawrence 6 James 6
Williams 7 Vokes 6 Davies 5
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Post by melynwy on Sept 6, 2019 23:22:42 GMT
Allen and Ampadu were strangely static for such usually dynamic and mobile players. They must have been under orders to keep their position instead of playing their natural game (despite being fairly deep lying players, they both like to roam, and Ampadu in particular likes to drop into central defence, allowing the centre backs to splits wide and the full backs to push up and overlap. No such thing tonight.)
Bale was good, and seemed to mostly make the right decisions for the team. Jonny very much changed the game.
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Post by iot on Sept 6, 2019 23:36:23 GMT
Reading the comments, I think a lot of people have already pointed out where things are going wrong, and one or two others seem to be completely missing the point (in my mind anyway).
Giggs' team selections and tactics are akin to what an average fan would do - just chuck all our most exciting, attacking talents on and expect them to produce. How many times has he played with four out and out forwards and just two deeper in midifeld to protect the back four, and then is surprised when we aren't cohesive in our play and can't control proceedings against lesser teams? The balance is completely wrong and he never learns - it's so frustrating! Starting lawrence, bale, james and wilson all in the same side was ridiculous and it's such naive thinking. It's not a positive selection - it's not a case of accepting defensive vulnerability in exchange for a greater attacking threat. It's not as simple as - the more forwards we play the greater the likelihood of creating chances / scoring. We need a greater presence in midfield to glue things together and put some decent phases of play together. When was the last time we scored a goal from a good move? We've scored three goals in this campaign - the first was a tackle and a snapshot that went in, the second was a ridiculos own goal, and the third was a scrappy goal from a deflected shot. Giggs doesn't seem to be getting any of this.
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Post by iot on Sept 6, 2019 23:43:03 GMT
We need to get our shit together now, there's no more chances to try different things etc. We should treat the Belarus game seriously, I would go for:
Ward Roberts Mepham Rodon Davies Smith Ampadu Joniesta Wilson Bale Lawrence
Hennessey is probably still our best options, but he was terrible tonight so Ward deserves a shot. We need stability and we need to build cohesion, so I would start our first choice defence. I would like us to line up in a 433 from now on to give us more balance - allen's played too many games these last couple of years so we should rest him - ampadu and smith will benefit from the minutes and it'll be good to see how joniesta does in that position - he did well from a deeper midfield role at the end today. James deserves a rest, I'd like to see Bale getting more minutes up top to get more accustomed to that role - he's suspended for the next two games so we may as well play him. Then I think Lawrence and Wilson are our only other wingers. I'd like to see levitt and lockyer given a good 30mins too.
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Post by iot on Sept 6, 2019 23:53:05 GMT
I was impressed with rodon for the most part, but he showed a lot of naivety in the goal we conceded. Sure, Taylor and Hennessey were far more at fault, but he made a bad decision when he shot up at the guy who made the through ball, leaving the scorer (who was ahead of and quicker than taylor) to run in behind him. A more astute defender would have left the guy with the ball and backtracked to ensure he covered the runnners going in behind until he received support. Otherwise though, he was very good on the ball, made a couple of very good interceptions, and mostly good in the air (even if the direction of headed clearances could have been better at times).
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Post by onecolinaddison on Sept 7, 2019 0:19:11 GMT
Giggs out for me. I don't think he's all that bright and the players don't respect him like they did Coleman. Tactically - what the hell were those corners all about for example? We've got Bale and the two big Centre Halves up in the area and three times Wilson just stubs it to two of their defenders near the penalty spot at shin height. Thought he could hit a dead ball? Then second half when Williams takes one - exactly the same. Clearly a plan. A plan put in place by Giggs, and clearly a complete and utter waste every time.
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2019 2:15:55 GMT
"RoDoN iS a RoCk" Ampadu has been massively underused tonight, calling for the ball in space yet the lads have treated him like an invisible man. rodon played well 👍
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2019 2:16:51 GMT
Can anyone see us qualify with Giggs in charge? And I don't just mean this campaign - but ever. The players clearly haven't got anything remotely resembling a game plan to play to. It took Joniesta coming on to inject a bit of go-forward (quelle surprise) - otherwise we would never have got the winner. Honest question - would you prefer Gould or Giggs? At least Gould's team had a bit of fight in them. vokes and joniesta should have started, common sense.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Sept 7, 2019 6:01:33 GMT
Back to the bad old days I'm sad to say.
Another poor outing and a fortunate victory that felt more like a defeat, against a plucky Azerbaijan team that were made to look better than they are, judging by their previous results in this group.
Far too slow when in possession of the ball and gave it away on numerous occasions, no team tactics (everyone seemed to play as individuals), little fire or passion in the performance.
On the plus side - Rodon did well on his debut and Joniesta did okay when he came on. Bale was better than last spring but no longer has the blistering pace to leave players for dead ( perhaps it's time for him to be our No 9 ).
On the debit side - No real tactics or a leader that I could see, plenty of possession without an end product.
Don't think Giggs is the man for the job. Didn't want him personally in the first place but he's proving to be out of his depth at present.
In his defence, there are too many players not playing enough games for their clubs and it showed, together with Ramsey and Brooks not fit. The goalkeeping position is a worry too, although Hennessy didn't have much to do.
We're going backwards at a pace and it's very annoying after the last few years!!
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2019 7:15:39 GMT
We need to get our shit together now, there's no more chances to try different things etc. We should treat the Belarus game seriously, I would go for: Ward Roberts Mepham Rodon Davies Smith Ampadu Joniesta Wilson Bale Lawrence Hennessey is probably still our best options, but he was terrible tonight so Ward deserves a shot. We need stability and we need to build cohesion, so I would start our first choice defence. I would like us to line up in a 433 from now on to give us more balance - allen's played too many games these last couple of years so we should rest him - ampadu and smith will benefit from the minutes and it'll be good to see how joniesta does in that position - he did well from a deeper midfield role at the end today. James deserves a rest, I'd like to see Bale getting more minutes up top to get more accustomed to that role - he's suspended for the next two games so we may as well play him. Then I think Lawrence and Wilson are our only other wingers. I'd like to see levitt and lockyer given a good 30mins too. good post, the only changes I'd maybe make is woodburn in for wilson, and maybe vokes for lawrence.
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2019 7:21:42 GMT
Is there any point in changing the manager now really? Giggs has changed the set up / squad so much, it's gonna take time now for things to settle.
If i was the FAW I wouldn't have given him the job in the first place. Bellamy, Roberts or Carl Robinson should've got it.
I would be happy for Mike Flynn to come in.
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Post by hooky on Sept 7, 2019 7:25:55 GMT
Look last night was clearky dreadful but lets stop blaming everything on Giggs. I think the team is a bit unbalanced and he has been favouring youth a bit too much but it is clear that there is massive negative bias against Giggs. Toshack was given a free ride for developing youngsters and Coleman had a dreadul start, is clearly not a good manager - look at his record at club level - he had the benefits of Bale and Ramsey at their peak and his defensiveness arguably cost us a shot at getting to the world cup/ Certain players were absolutely dreadful with amateurish mistakes last night. Taylor's two mistake were inexcusable (second being how he stopped running after the first shot!) and I could have done as well as Hennesey! I have no idea how they can make such simple mistakes. Allen was mediocre by all accounts. These are very experienced players! How is that Gigg's fault? How is Bale coming is for criticism? Previously he was a freak of nature - incredibly and uniquely explosive. He is 30 now! What do you expect? He is however more of a team player now and he came up with key moments yesterday yet again! As mentioned the centre back partnership looks very promising Tall, strong and reasonably quick1 In terms of balance Lawrence and/or Wilson need to be on the bench. Lawrence is so frutrating. He is probably as talented as most but is so inconsistent - that is the reason he is not playing in the premier league. Wilson needs to learn to be more consistently involved and influential in a game. On Tailor - obviously Giggs must have indicated to Dummett he prefered Tailor as well as Ben Davies over Dummett - I would have favoured Dummet over Tailor - he seems far more reliable. Hopefully we get Ramsey and Brooks back for Slovakia as we need them! A pleasing aspect was the influence of Johnny Williams. I had completely written him off given his chronic injury problems. I hope he stays injury free as he deserves a career giving his unquestionable commitment. In summary last night was dire - but at least we found a way, albeit with a large slice of fortune! Imagine if Bale had buried that easy chance verus Hungary - things would have looked extremely promising. Slovakia getting hammered last night was presumably a good result for us too!
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2019 7:39:13 GMT
Look last night was clearky dreadful but lets stop blaming everything on Giggs. I think the team is a bit unbalanced and he has been favouring youth a bit too much but it is clear that there is massive negative bias against Giggs. Toshack was given a free ride for developing youngsters and Coleman had a dreadul start, is clearly not a good manager - look at his record at club level - he had the benefits of Bale and Ramsey at their peak and his defensiveness arguably cost us a shot at getting to the world cup/ Certain players were absolutely dreadful with amateurish mistakes last night. Taylor's two mistake were inexcusable (second being how he stopped running after the first shot!) and I could have done as well as Hennesey! I have no idea how they can make such simple mistakes. Allen was mediocre by all accounts. These are very experienced players! How is that Gigg's fault? How is Bale coming is for criticism? Previously he was a freak of nature - incredibly and uniquely explosive. He is 30 now! What do you expect? He is however more of a team player now and he came up with key moments yesterday yet again! As mentioned the centre back partnership looks very promising Tall, strong and reasonably quick1 In terms of balance Lawrence and/or Wilson need to be on the bench. Lawrence is so frutrating. He is probably as talented as most but is so inconsistent - that is the reason he is not playing in the premier league. Wilson needs to learn to be more consistently involved and influential in a game. On Tailor - obviously Giggs must have indicated to Dummett he prefered Tailor as well as Ben Davies over Dummett - I would have favoured Dummet over Tailor - he seems far more reliable. Hopefully we get Ramsey and Brooks back for Slovakia as we need them! A pleasing aspect was the influence of Johnny Williams. I had completely written him off given his chronic injury problems. I hope he stays injury free as he deserves a career giving his unquestionable commitment. In summary last night was dire - but at least we found a way, albeit with a large slice of fortune! Imagine if Bale had buried that easy chance verus Hungary - things would have looked extremely promising. Slovakia getting hammered last night was presumably a good result for us too! You've clearly seen something in Giggs and the young uns. Your hope and faith reminds me of myself 6/7 years+ ago, I hope you're proven right. At least under Cookie, after Serbia 6-1, we looked like we had a bit of structure about us. Giggs was a risky appointment, and it hasn't been good so far. He was a very lucky man last night, and should take most of the blame for that dire performance.
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2019 7:51:34 GMT
We're crying out for HRK, his movement and chasing down.
And, players like Churchy were a huge part in us qualifying last time.
Sure we look good on paper with some of our young individuals, but a good team sheet doesn't make a great team.
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Post by cadno on Sept 7, 2019 7:52:53 GMT
I'm glad most people are on the same page i.e Bale, he put in a good performance.
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Post by sleepy on Sept 7, 2019 8:21:06 GMT
As of last week CARDIFF CITY STADIUM IS CASH-LESS. So all food and bar stands will only accept Contactless / Applepay etc. as payment. So dig up all your old £5 notes from under the floorboards and apply for a plastic card ;-) Not in the family stand. The was a mobile bar under 127/129.
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Post by nwcherries on Sept 7, 2019 9:13:07 GMT
That was a bit of a wet fart of a game! Obviously it could have been a lot worse in terms of the result, but that wasn’t nearly as good as you lot can play.
I think you’re missing Brooks just like we are atm, imho he’s easily top 3 players you have alongside Bale and Ramsey, who is also missing. There isn’t enough creativity in the centre of the pitch; I think a recently rejuvenated Williams would have been good to start with. Plus you’re clearly desperate for a decent, out and out striker. Anyone coming through the ranks for this atm? Roberts maybe?
Have to say from a neutral perspective I think the standard of football has dropped since Giggs took charge. I can’t really see what his plan is in games, or what type of football he’s going for?
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Post by 1gwaunview on Sept 7, 2019 9:31:32 GMT
That was a bit of a wet fart of a game! Obviously it could have been a lot worse in terms of the result, but that wasn’t nearly as good as you lot can play. I think you’re missing Brooks just like we are atm, imho he’s easily top 3 players you have alongside Bale and Ramsey, who is also missing. There isn’t enough creativity in the centre of the pitch; I think a recently rejuvenated Williams would have been good to start with. Plus you’re clearly desperate for a decent, out and out striker. Anyone coming through the ranks for this atm? Roberts maybe? Have to say from a neutral perspective I think the standard of football has dropped since Giggs took charge. I can’t really see what his plan is in games, or what type of football he’s going for? Roberts has not really impressed so far in a Wales shirt and is currently injured. Time to move Bale to the centre.
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Post by rico on Sept 7, 2019 9:35:14 GMT
Feel Bale needs to be out wide with an out and out striker up top. Bale noticeably was pushing out wide later in the game even though I don't think it was set up with him out there.
Problem is we don't have a wealth of strikers to pick from. We miss how versatile Hal was. Ramsey also was a huge miss.
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llyn
the carls
Posts: 58
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Post by llyn on Sept 7, 2019 9:59:52 GMT
However well organised Azerbaijan were we should have done much better than that. If we don't improve substantially during the rest of the qualifiers the FAW must have the guts to get rid of Giggs and get in an experienced manager in for the probable play offs (anyone, even Pulis who can at least organise a team). Though, even if we don't get better, I expect the FAW to stick with the tried and failed manager.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 10:12:54 GMT
No leaders at the back. We miss peak Ashley Williams massively.
No threat in centre midfield with Ramsey missing! We will be a different team with him back.
No striker.
Those are not giggs' fault.
But the lack of teamwork and the reliance on hoping for individual moments is. We are in a good position but morale from the fans is really low, tells you everything
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Post by richierich333 on Sept 7, 2019 10:15:21 GMT
#Crappygiggsout
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Post by welshiron on Sept 7, 2019 10:16:34 GMT
One bit of credit for Giggs. We didnt see Lawrence or Vaulks (neither should of been capped).
However I fear both will play on Monday
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