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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 6, 2022 0:23:08 GMT
Could be the answer to "we need pace up front" if he gets back to the level he was at. Want to see what him and Colwill can do together
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Post by iot on Dec 6, 2022 10:08:35 GMT
Sorry for being that guy, but just a note of caution on the likes of Isaak Davies and David Brooks. Fans' appreciation of players always increases in their absence, particularly when things go wrong. So, let's not forget what their form was actually like before their injuries. Davies looked like a decent prospect for Cardiff, but nothing more. He scored 2 in 28. I watched him a few times and his performances were a mixed bag, as you would expect with youngsters. His performances for Wales u21 were underwhelming when he got called up.
With Brooks, he was actually out of form and in and out of the Bournemouth side when the diagnosis came through. He had nothing more than an ok season in the championship the preceding season. Let's also not forget that he was in our Euro 2020 squad and didn't have much of an impact.
Not trying to run our players down, just trying to point out that people shouldn't expect any miracles where they will solve all our problems.
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Post by hooky on Dec 7, 2022 12:43:14 GMT
On Brooks you have got it so wrong.
The guy was touted as a top 6 player in waiting during his maiden season in the premiership. He was fantastic and adaptable in where he played and was so, so creative. He is just a natural footballer. Then he got a very bad ankle injury, never fully recovered and that Euro 2000 tournament - he was still not fully fit
The problem now is can be get to and remain injury free and can sportsmen make a full physical (and mental) recovery from cancer. I hope he can more so for him than us even!
Davies - I would agree so far its hype. Lets see how he develops.
Sorba Thomas is just 23 (24 in January). He should definitely stay. His delivery is good and better than most of our players, including our full backs. Hope he can develop into an attacking full back as he could replace Connor Roberts, who has been going backwards . It feels like we should perhaps look to upgrade from Roberts - he is now playing with a bit of fear (you notice more sideways and backwards first balls from him now and more conservative runs) and is struggling. He will end up being another Chris Gunter if he is not careful (albeit a poor defender than Gunter was in his prime). I hope he proves me wrong!
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Post by iot on Dec 7, 2022 12:57:35 GMT
'Then he got a very bad ankle injury, never fully recovered and that Euro 2000 tournament - he was still not fully fit'
That bit's incorrect. He came back for the last couple of months of the 19/20 premier league season. He then had a full season, more than less injury free, in the championship in 2020/21 before going to the Euros that Summer. So if he hadn't recovered from the injury during the course of a full season, it raises the question of whether he could get back to those maiden premier league season levels at all
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 7, 2022 16:20:07 GMT
Sorry for being that guy, but just a note of caution on the likes of Isaak Davies and David Brooks. Fans' appreciation of players always increases in their absence, particularly when things go wrong. So, let's not forget what their form was actually like before their injuries. Davies looked like a decent prospect for Cardiff, but nothing more. He scored 2 in 28. I watched him a few times and his performances were a mixed bag, as you would expect with youngsters. His performances for Wales u21 were underwhelming when he got called up. With Brooks, he was actually out of form and in and out of the Bournemouth side when the diagnosis came through. He had nothing more than an ok season in the championship the preceding season. Let's also not forget that he was in our Euro 2020 squad and didn't have much of an impact. Not trying to run our players down, just trying to point out that people shouldn't expect any miracles where they will solve all our problems. Re: Brooks, I think it was suggest before that he seemed to be struggling a bit and people couldn't pinpoint why. And then the diagnosis of cancer came through, and I think this explained why he had been off the boil in recent times preceding the diagnosis. I'd hope that he will eventually be back to the levels of his 1st season in the Premier League, might take him time, or maybe he'll be champing at the bit to get back performing |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 8, 2022 16:55:22 GMT
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Post by mortillsy on Dec 8, 2022 17:36:03 GMT
Really looking forward to seeing Isaak back. Good player - with a good run he’ll find his rhythm and some consistency.
Rubin and Isaak appear to be the most likely to emerge as important players from the academy for Cardiff. But, hoping to see the likes of Cian Ashford and Crole in the not so distant future.
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Post by dai on Dec 8, 2022 18:27:11 GMT
What is he exactly? Striker? Forward? Winger?
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Post by iot on Dec 8, 2022 19:42:38 GMT
From what I've seen, I doubt he'll ever be a striker who can play through the middle on his own. 10-15 years ago he would have been a second striker, someone to feed off a centre forward, but teams don't play that way anymore. He was mainly used as a wide forward last season. Seems to be decent technically, pretty quick, and a decent finisher, but doesn't look like someone who'll get many goals
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 8, 2022 21:10:52 GMT
A lot of teams at the World Cup played 2 up front tho, including us! We had Kieffer & Gaz up there. Isaak when he matures would actually double up really well with someone like Kieffer
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Post by cadno on Dec 8, 2022 21:29:20 GMT
Is he a better option than Mark Harris / Brennan Johnson / Bradshaw up top with Moore?
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Post by insertname on Dec 8, 2022 23:36:59 GMT
I recall when it was considered that Tosh couldn’t play 3 at the back because British players weren’t intelligent enough to understand the requirements. Nowadays everyone is a third centre back. There was a point during Argentina vs Australia in the World Cup where Argentina looked suspiciously like they were playing the old German sweeper system (whatever happened to that?!). It’s all cyclical and reminds me of a strategy card game I play where the more advanced the deck archetypes get the more older archetypes long considered inefficient come back into play as the best counter to the latest ones and it will end up exactly the same in football, I’m sure, with the Shearer and Bellamy style “2 up front” as it used to be called being considered an evolution from two wing forwards and a central striker, and so on and so on…
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Post by bale-droed on Dec 8, 2022 23:48:24 GMT
Tifo football on YouTube recently did a video on how 442 will become the dominant formation again
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Post by mortillsy on Dec 9, 2022 0:02:23 GMT
He almost certainly has a higher ceiling than Harris and Bradshaw, I’d say. Not sure if he’s a better option at the moment, he probably hasn’t had enough professional games yet.
Not so much Brennan. But I think Brennan will be a top player.
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Post by insertname on Dec 9, 2022 8:39:32 GMT
I recall when it was considered that Tosh couldn’t play 3 at the back because British players weren’t intelligent enough to understand the requirements. Nowadays everyone is a third centre back. There was a point during Argentina vs Australia in the World Cup where Argentina looked suspiciously like they were playing the old German sweeper system (whatever happened to that?!). It’s all cyclical and reminds me of a strategy card game I play where the more advanced the deck archetypes get the more older archetypes long considered inefficient come back into play as the best counter to the latest ones and it will end up exactly the same in football, I’m sure, with the Shearer and Bellamy style “2 up front” as it used to be called being considered an evolution from two wing forwards and a central striker, and so on and so on… Tifo football on YouTube recently did a video on how 442 will become the dominant formation again Yep, nailed on. Will be interesting where it evolves from there because iirc 4-4-2 originally started to die out in England around 1997 when Ferguson started setting Man United up in a 4-5-1 in the champions league which soon became his preferred shape across the board and the focus switched from committing two forwards to out-numbering opponents with a midfield three. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 9, 2022 9:16:22 GMT
A lot of teams at the World Cup played 2 up front tho, including us! We had Kieffer & Gaz up there. Isaak when he matures would actually double up really well with someone like Kieffer Is he a better option than Mark Harris / Brennan Johnson / Bradshaw up top with Moore? Not just yet, but in a year or two? I think he'll certainly be better than Harris and Bradshaw |
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Post by talyfan on Dec 9, 2022 10:24:44 GMT
How many second strikers/wingers have we got coming through now or on the radar?
Dan James, Brennan, Harris, Colwill, Matondo, Hedges and Isaak Davies
We're absolutely desperate for an out and out #9.
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Post by dai on Dec 9, 2022 10:42:26 GMT
Agree. I was disappointed to learn that Davies was another Matondo, James, Johnson, Brooks, Roberts type of player. Can't believe that since Hartson, the only other half decent CF/striker/no9 we've found is Moore, and he's on the wrong side of 20 (think he's 30 now actually).
I know goals can come from other areas of the pitch, but that hasn't been happening either. Countries of our size don't produce prolific goalscorers often, but even for us, the situation has become pretty desperate.
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Post by dai on Dec 9, 2022 10:48:21 GMT
Tifo football on YouTube recently did a video on how 442 will become the dominant formation again I really liked how dangerous Serbia looked against the Swiss with two big centre forwards / strikers in Mitrovic and Vlahović. However that was with a wing back system as well. They took Vlahović off for some reason early in the second half, and they looked much worse afterwards. Unfortunately I don't think we have anybody of the same calibre as those two, Vlahović has scored 14 goals in 25 games for Juve and we all know about Mitrovic. But there's nothing to say we can't try that formation. |
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Post by iot on Dec 9, 2022 12:37:08 GMT
I mean, if they played with wing-backs they were presumably playing a back-5. So it sounds like they were using the same formation we used in the first two games - a 532. We played it with Bale and James against the US, and Bale and Moore against Iran
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Post by dai on Dec 9, 2022 12:39:24 GMT
Well on the lineup shot, it was coming up as:
3-4-1-2. Someone was sitting behind the front 2.
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Post by iot on Dec 9, 2022 12:44:22 GMT
That's why you should never trust those sorts of graphics - I've seen some pretty wild, inaccurate ones in the past! We had a back 5, Ampadu sitting in front, Wilson and Ramsey as dual 8s in front of him, and James and Bale as split forwards up front. So a 532, or I guess you could describe it as a 5122. Either way, it was a back 5 and 2 up top, similar to your description of the Serbian formation
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Post by talyfan on Dec 9, 2022 13:03:43 GMT
It's the worst combination a lot of the time, not to say they're useless but more often than not they're neither particularly creative or prolific in front of goal.
The weird thing is I'm trying to think of other countries who have these types of second strikers/wingers - I can't really think of many or certainly think of a country who has as many as we do.
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Post by insertname on Dec 9, 2022 13:51:07 GMT
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point but it’s quite a common paradigm: Matondo/James—-Moore——Johnson/Brooks is the poor man’s Vinicius jr, Richarlison, Raphinha or Mbappe, Giroud, Dembele or Foden, Kane, Saka etc etc.
We just have the problem that whilst we have a few potentially key wide players none of them have kicked on in their careers really for a variety of reasons.
For me probably the worst thing about this World Cup is not so much the results or that others think we are awful, it’s more that the exciting attacking players coming through (chiefly Johnson) added nothing when they had their chance. We might have lots of wide forwards/support strikers but when it comes to actual talent it’s a bit of a bleak picture.
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 9, 2022 14:04:43 GMT
Pinning a lot of hopes on young Isaak already, he's only just come back from a relatively long injury in a short career so far. He's got pace and enthusiasm but very little game time really, hopefully he ends the season well and can be in contention for a squad place by the summer
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Post by talyfan on Dec 9, 2022 14:21:17 GMT
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point but it’s quite a common paradigm: Matondo/James—-Moore——Johnson/Brooks is the poor man’s Vinicius jr, Richarlison, Raphinha or Mbappe, Giroud, Dembele or Foden, Kane, Saka etc etc. We just have the problem that whilst we have a few potentially key wide players none of them have kicked on in their careers really for a variety of reasons. For me probably the worst thing about this World Cup is not so much the results or that others think we are awful, it’s more that the exciting attacking players coming through (chiefly Johnson) added nothing when they had their chance. We might have lots of wide forwards/support strikers but when it comes to actual talent it’s a bit of a bleak picture. I've not worded it great I must admit but what I mean is they're not particularly effective of what we've seen recently. They're still really young so a lot can change. I'm just concerned at the moment where the goals are going to come from, really I'd say we only have one outlet and that's Kieffer. I'd love to see other step up and chip in with scoring/creating more and just generally causing problems going forward with a bit of spark. Question is I don't know if it's system, personnel or a mixture of everything. |
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Post by bale-droed on Dec 9, 2022 14:37:18 GMT
Tifo football on YouTube recently did a video on how 442 will become the dominant formation again Yep, nailed on. Will be interesting where it evolves from there because iirc 4-4-2 originally started to die out in England around 1997 when Ferguson started setting Man United up in a 4-5-1 in the champions league which soon became his preferred shape across the board and the focus switched from committing two forwards to out-numbering opponents with a midfield three. And then from about 2002-2005 everyone played 451 , look at joses first Chelsea. Even Sam Allardyce’s Bolton at times were champions league contenders with it. More importantly to us I think we need to hit reset for a moment and go simple. 442 will really help us analyse what some of our individual player strengths are. I think there’s confusion with some players as to what they do best. With the point you make a out the next 442 evolution I would love to see football roll back 100 years and see a 5:5 or 3:7 formation 🤣 never happen but would be amazing to see! |
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Post by cadno on Dec 9, 2022 15:14:41 GMT
Is he a better option than Mark Harris / Brennan Johnson / Bradshaw up top with Moore? Not just yet, but in a year or two? I think he'll certainly be better than Harris and Bradshaw Fair enough, I’ve never seen him play! That’s exciting as both Harris and Bradshaw are good players. Bradshaw has pretty much the same goal record at club level as Kieffer Moore, sadly snubbed by Wales though, he has different attributes that would be handy for different game scenarios! |
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Post by CrackityJones on Jan 8, 2023 13:22:45 GMT
First start today after a long time out with injury. Live on ITV
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 8, 2023 13:32:37 GMT
Glad that he's back, Cardiff desperately need him to rekindle his form
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