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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 29, 2023 22:27:25 GMT
Haven't seen anyone denying Mullin is worth a look at tonight, if anything I'm seeing more people warming to the idea
To anyone here who is undecided, here's my question to you...
Does Mullin start for Cardiff right now?
I don't think many would say that he doesn't now
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Post by dai on Jan 29, 2023 22:41:49 GMT
Well, I've had an argument with someone on Twitter about it......same old same old. Why call a 28 year old at NL up over young players with 'potential', 'Mark Harris hasn't played in this Wrexham side', 'Mullin is not good enough for ch'ship level, let alone int'.
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Post by hooky on Jan 29, 2023 22:54:30 GMT
Not only is he a goalscorer which is precious, but he does everything else too at a decent level and seldom makes mistake. He is also driven and a great team player. Fans must love him!
Palmer is decent and nearly scored but the difference in quality between him and Mullins is leagues apart. Palmer dwelt on the ball several times when he had great options ahead / to the side and misfires a bit. Despite that he is a decent league player and effective. However, Mullins would definitely guarantee a decent side 10 goals a season in the Championship imo and Harris simply doesn't does he?
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Post by surge on Jan 29, 2023 23:23:00 GMT
He played really, really well tonight and him fading after scoring late on (picked up a knock? Fatigue?) robbed Wrexham of decent out ball and allowed Sheffield United back into it.
Is he good enough to do it against players better than Championship standard? We're unlikely to ever find out. Are most defenders at international level better than Championship standard? Probably not. Can he do it when not so hyped up by the big occasion, can he do it against likes of Andorra away? How will he react to being taken to a camp then, potentially, not getting any minutes?
I fully understand squads picked up to this point and one swallow does not make a summer, but it was so easy to be impressed by him today.
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Post by cadno on Jan 29, 2023 23:40:58 GMT
But, but, but, he's a 28-year-old playing in YUCKY NON-LEAGUE! 🥴 He's done the business against two Championship sides this season and shows far more initiative than anyone else available to us. Fuck knows what else he has to do to impress some of the smooth brains on here. Why are you so defensive of non league hha? You’re obviously desperate to leave it. Heard he was best player on the pitch so fair enough, could be worth having a look at in an upcoming friendly and go from there! I still think there’s others ahead of him personally but happy for him to be given an opportunity and prove me wrong! |
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Post by robin1864 on Jan 29, 2023 23:53:07 GMT
I'm not defensive of it, I just get pissed off when morons on this site write off Mullin for a call-up when he's been incredible for the past 2/3 seasons, in favour of lads like Davies, Harris or Collins, who seemingly exist in club football to make up the numbers - all on the basis that Mullin is playing at a much lower level than them, so therefore must be worse.
It's like watching England fans buy into the fallacy that having Premier League players means they should beat Germany or Italy, because of the parochial view that their domestic leagues aren't worth shit compared to the PL.
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Post by insertname on Jan 30, 2023 0:21:28 GMT
Double figures for goals AND assists = making up the numbers? I'd gently suggest you're getting a bit carried away there.
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Post by jimexotic on Jan 30, 2023 0:51:55 GMT
England should be beating Germany and Italy because they have the ingredients to make two or three brilliant teams. Never in my life can I remember England having so much quality to call upon, with the exception of centre back, partly due to the way the game is changing, a genuine World Class centre back is hard to come by these days. I don't like saying it but England have everything they need to beat the best, they just need to get it right, which I don't think they will.
Aaron Collins is having a terrific season and deserves a call up, he's doing everything you could want from a striker, he scores, he assists, he works damn hard and he's clearly on the up. Like Mullin, his is a great story of building his career back up in the lower leagues when it looked like it could be slipping away from him.
Paul Mullin should be getting called up. Twice against Championship opposition he has shone, he was quite simply the best player on the pitch today, he was doing everything and his goal capped an almost complete performance, you couldn't have asked for much more. His touch and awareness, his movement and his ability to score all kinds of goals makes him someone who would be very handy to call upon if needed.
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Post by robin1864 on Jan 30, 2023 1:00:24 GMT
I'm not defensive of it, I just get pissed off when morons on this site write off Mullin for a call-up when he's been incredible for the past 2/3 seasons, in favour of lads like Davies, Harris or Collins, who seemingly exist in club football to make up the numbers - all on the basis that Mullin is playing at a much lower level than them, so therefore must be worse. It's like watching England fans buy into the fallacy that having Premier League players means they should beat Germany or Italy, because of the parochial view that their domestic leagues aren't worth shit compared to the PL. Double figures for goals AND assists = making up the numbers? I'd gently suggest you're getting a bit carried away there. Davies has 0 goals in 6 appearances this season. Harris has 3 goals in 30 appearances this season. Prolific. I'm sure they make up for it with phenomenal off-the-ball work or something, even though Cardiff find themselves at the arse end of the Championship. Collins is doing a bit better, 14 goals in 35 appearances at a mid-table Rovers side, but still not quite Mullin, who's on 27 goals in 31 appearances so far, having scored 30+ goals in the previous two seasons. Call him up. |
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Post by insertname on Jan 30, 2023 1:28:21 GMT
Collins has got double figures for assists too. You don't seem to understand how rare a feat that is to be top scorer and top assister at the same time at league two level. That's why I say you're getting carried away trying to prove your point. Collins is on a different planet in terms of output to Davies and Harris, they shouldn't even be in the same conversation so as such Collins deserves a lot more respect for his numbers this season than he is being afforded here.
By all means big Mullins up but in fairness you're not going to get very far by comparing him to Collins who is also having an outstanding season but two leagues higher and for a bang average side.
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Post by bale-droed on Jan 30, 2023 2:05:39 GMT
So everyone who’s been calling for Mullin to be in the Welsh squad ( Usually people who’ve actually seen him play live) have been proven to be absolutely correct. The Coventry game should’ve been the end of the debate. The level he plays at is irrelevant if last season was in the MLS or China or Saudi Arabia he would already of been called up the argument that we’re only talking about him because he plays for Wrexham can be totally flipped and it could be argued it’s hurt his international chances. People also argue about his age. This really confuses me. Having him play for us during a campaign and potentially a tournament between the age of 28-30 seems perfect to me. Strikers seem to peak 28-32 so what’s the issue here? I’d rather a 29 year old starting and scoring than giving a 20 year old 10 caps with no goals.
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Post by marsvolta on Jan 30, 2023 6:18:36 GMT
I’m happy for Mullin to be called up personally but I’m confused by what you mean when you say that if he was playing in the MLS, China or Saudi Arabia, he’d have been called up by now. What are you basing this on?
Are you saying that if he scored the same amount of goals in those leagues it he would be considered due to those leagues being of a higher standard than the National League? Or are you saying that you consider those leagues at the same level?
We certainly haven’t any history of calling up players from those leagues (other than Bale obviously)
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Post by cadno on Jan 30, 2023 8:56:32 GMT
Apparently we have some friendlies coming up this year so that would be the perfect opportunity for Mullin. I’m not sure when the last time a non league player got called up but good for him if it happens! Aaron Collins is on fire and should also be called up, and Bradshaw is having a decent season and should be called up based on his current form & the last few years. Tbh if Bradshaw played in league 2 and non league I think he’d be firing them in like Mullin, the gap to the Champ is a significant one over an entire season.
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Post by bale-droed on Jan 30, 2023 9:29:06 GMT
I’m happy for Mullin to be called up personally but I’m confused by what you mean when you say that if he was playing in the MLS, China or Saudi Arabia, he’d have been called up by now. What are you basing this on? Are you saying that if he scored the same amount of goals in those leagues it he would be considered due to those leagues being of a higher standard than the National League? Or are you saying that you consider those leagues at the same level? We certainly haven’t any history of calling up players from those leagues (other than Bale obviously) Well since the MLS has been a decent standard (since about 2015) there’s been none to call up except Bale ,Shawcross and Bond and none in the other leagues i mentioned. This isn’t supposed to be a literal thing so no one needs to quote me what he said about China in the documentary. I was trying to say if he was playing in a league that wasn’t “fashionable” being paid the same wages he’s on now he would be in the squad. As we all know he joined Wrexham because of the money they offered if an MLS team had offered him the same and he went there 2 years ago he’d be in the squad by now. People have placed too much emphasis on his level. His club level in regard to international Level should not be a factor on his ability to do well for us. Look at Matondo for example he played in the bundesliga it was irrelevant to us as apart from one game he’s done nothing so far. The teams players represent should be irrelevant. He’s good enough. |
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Post by marsvolta on Jan 30, 2023 9:33:18 GMT
Apparently we have some friendlies coming up this year so that would be the perfect opportunity for Mullin. I’m not sure when the last time a non league player got called up but good for him if it happens! Aaron Collins is on fire and should also be called up, and Bradshaw is having a decent season and should be called up based on his current form & the last few years. Tbh if Bradshaw played in league 2 and non league I think he’d be firing them in like Mullin, the gap to the Champ is a significant one over an entire season. Jesus, we can’t call up Bradshaw, Collins and Mullin, who in earth are we going to drop. Moore? James? Johnson? Yea, Harris is everyone’s whipping boy but he’s still only one player we can’t replace him with three. |
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Post by talyfan on Jan 30, 2023 9:52:20 GMT
To be fair you'd drop James back to playing out wide.
Other than pressing offers very little in the front line when playing two up top.
Absolutely not set in stone and up for debate but if you selected 26 players for the next squad and wanted to fit those three in you could.
Hennessey, Ward, Davies (3)
Rodon, Cabango, Davies, Lockyer, Mepham, Neco, Roberts (7)
Ampadu, Allen, Levitt, Jordan James, Ollie Cooper, Dan James, Harry Wilson, Aaron Ramsey, Rubin Colwill, Morrell, Woodburn (11)
Moore, Johnson, Collins, Bradshaw, Mullin (5)
Picking 23 then very unlikely. Might've have done with a left back but no springs to mind unless we go Andrew Hughes or Morgan Fox? So you could move people around. Again that lot I'm not suggesting we call up but just to prove you could hypothetically include all three.
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Post by cadno on Jan 30, 2023 10:23:14 GMT
Apparently we have some friendlies coming up this year so that would be the perfect opportunity for Mullin. I’m not sure when the last time a non league player got called up but good for him if it happens! Aaron Collins is on fire and should also be called up, and Bradshaw is having a decent season and should be called up based on his current form & the last few years. Tbh if Bradshaw played in league 2 and non league I think he’d be firing them in like Mullin, the gap to the Champ is a significant one over an entire season. Jesus, we can’t call up Bradshaw, Collins and Mullin, who in earth are we going to drop. Moore? James? Johnson? Yea, Harris is everyone’s whipping boy but he’s still only one player we can’t replace him with three. Give em a chance in friendlies to begin with maybe! Bradshaw would be my pick of the 3 for a qualifier atm! I hope all the Mullin fans will still back Joniesta up, scoring goals in league 2 from midfield and proven at international level! |
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Post by iot on Jan 30, 2023 13:04:36 GMT
First of all, I've watched Mullin in a dozen or so games now and I love watching him play. I think he's fantastic for Wrexham who I'm desperate to see go as far as they can, so I want him to do well.
I thought he was decent against Coventry (not as good as he was made out to be on here), but yesterday he was fantastic and fully deserving of the MOTM.
Happy to go against the grain on the overwhelming support on here, so here goes...
The reason I still probably wouldn't call him up, although it's definitely not a hill I'm willing to die on, is just because I don't see what the end game is - in the short or long term. Are we saying that we use him from the off in this campaign, in our first two qualifier in March? So we're playing a front 2 or 3 against Croatia with Moore and Johnson starting, and potentially James, and we've got the likes of Wilson on the bench. We're looking for a goal - do we bring on Mullin instead of Johnson or Moore (we wouldn't bring him on instead of a wide forward)? I wouldn't personally bring in a new squad addition in that type of scenario because I think others would be better placed / more likely to have a telling impact which could be the difference between us qualifying or not.
We then don't have our next games until June - crucial and tricky games against Armenia and Turkey away. And then it's a further wait until September / October, by which point Mullin will be almost 29.
So if we don't play him in the short term, is the plan to gradually introduce him now with a view of playing him later down the line? If he stays and all goes well with Wrexham, he will be a 31yo League 1 striker by the time the world cup qualifiers come round.
For me, the issues are:
a) he didn't achieve much at all until he was 25 - prior to then he'd scored 56 goals in 208 games (about 1 in 4) with all but 3 of those goals in League 2 level (nothing to make us sit up and take notice even if we knew of his eligibility).
b) he's chosen to play at this level, and if he stays and helps Wrexham get back to back promotions will be 31 by the time they're in the Championship.
c) We have very few friendlies - there's rumoured to be one at the end of the year, by which time he'll be almost 29 so again I struggle to see an end game
I just disagree with those of you who think he'll come in and tear the Croatian defence apart / will make the difference off the bench in these crucial qualifiers. Don't forget the reality of international football where he will be coming in to a totally new environment 3 or 4 days before our first massive match, then there's another 3 or 4 days before the second and they then all go back to their clubs - I think it would be insane to chuck him on in the hope he has an impact in that sort of scenario. I disagree that he's done enough to be given such massive opportunities in these make or break games.
I think the most likely scenario is that he doesn't get called up. The second most likely is that he gets called up, but doesn't feature in the games, several more months pass by such is the reality of international football and by the time we can get to know him / he gets to know us, it's almost already too late. The third scenario, where he gets called up and is immediately selected / brought on ahead of the likes of Wilson and has an impact, is by far the most remote possibility imo. If he were called up and given 10-15mins at the end of the Croatian/Latvian games with the games passing him by, where do we go from there? It will have been a lot of wasted energy where we could prioritise incorporating other, higher potential players where there's a clearer role for them in the medium / long term.
Edit on the last point - before anyone shouts about how stupid it is to focus on the medium/long term over the here and now, my point is that I'm very skeptical he would have an impact in the immediate term.
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Jan 30, 2023 13:20:07 GMT
Just a query: Was Rob Page at the Racecourse yesterday? Thought he might/should have been present - to back a Welsh team against more fancied opponents, and he could have viewed Paul Mullin for himself as well.
Perhaps he had to think twice about visiting North Wales, as he lives in Sheffield and is an ex-Sheff Utd player.
A final thought - on the Mullin debate - if selected, but doesn't start against Croatia, I feel sure he could cause a lot of problems for the Latvia defence on the following Tuesday night!
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Post by gimli on Jan 30, 2023 13:38:21 GMT
I just think we have to make full use of what few options we have available to us. I don't think anyone expects him to come straight into the team vs Croatia and tear them apart, but for the Latvia game at the very least he gives us an option off the bench if we're struggling for a goal.
Let's say we start with Kieffer and Brennan up front, Lativa have parked the bus and we just can't break them down, it's 0-0 at 70 mins. Realistically at that point we're in desparation mode, we need to shake it up somehow, and Page looks at the bench and sees Tyler Roberts, Mark Harris and Paul Mullin. There's only one name there that I really have any faith in. We've all seen enough of Roberts to know he's not changing the game. I like Harris more than most but he's not likely to make a massive difference either. Mullin could very well do nothing at all and look completely out of his depth, but there's the chance that his game transfers over really well to international football and he comes in and changes the game. It's worth the gamble in my view. Worst case scenario is he has zero impact, but we haven't really lost anything because it's unlikely any of the other options would have made an impact either.
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Post by dai on Jan 30, 2023 13:44:20 GMT
Johnson is injured. We're drawing with Latvia at home, Moore is knackered and we have Harris, Colwill, Broadhead, T Roberts and Mullin on the bench. Which one of those do you think is most likely to come and score?
After Bale's retirement, our forward cupboard is as bare as I remember, we need to explore all avenues going forward. We simply don't have the strength in depth to just ignore in form players, whatever the level.
The World Cup highlighted the importance of fitness, and at the moment our fittest and in form forwards are Collins, Bradshaw and Mullin.
This talk of planning for the immediate/long term is overrated. We've been doing that for 3 years and have regressed badly. Pick the best players playing right now.
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Post by insertname on Jan 30, 2023 14:18:35 GMT
It’s easy to get carried away with the groundswell on here and the calls of call him up.
Taking a step back, Mullin has as much chance of getting called up as I have under Page. Giggs would have had the balls to do it but Page is too conservative and too loyal. I would be surprised if the idea of calling Mullin up had even entered his thinking. My guess, based on what I read into Page, is that if anyone is going to get a look in to freshen things up it would be someone like Jack Vale. Other than that I expect the forwards for the Latvia game (which is when Mullin should be given a chance) to be the usual: Harris, Brennan, Moore, James + maybe Roberts or Vale as there is a space with Bale having retired.
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Post by quetzal on Jan 30, 2023 14:43:24 GMT
You look at it and think international football possession based game and all that and he’s not going to get a sniff. But then you have Vardy, Kieffer Moore, Stuart Pearce(Wealdstone), Roy Keane(Cobh Ramblers) and others.
Well Rob Page lives in Sheffield area. You’d like to think he’ll be in attendance for the replay.
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Post by bale-droed on Jan 30, 2023 14:49:54 GMT
iot You make a lot of interesting points. I think it’s simply this. When we are playing against Turkey, Armenia or Latvia and we’ve started Moore and Johnson if it’s 0-0 in the 70th minute who do you want to come on? Paul mullin or Harris, Bradshaw, Roberts, Collins? For me it’s Mullin. For this campaign he can be very useful to us in grabbing important goals. I wouldn’t even be against him starting with Moore against Latvia or Armenia in a 442. I genuinely believe he scores against them. None of our promising young forwards (Of which there are plenty) are ready for a chance this campaign. Hopefully by 2026 qualifying Popov, Dackers, Dafydd, Roberts Etc hopefully one has pushed on but Mullin for this campaign is easily one of our best goal scoring threats and I want us to finish in the top 2.
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Post by bale-droed on Jan 30, 2023 14:56:55 GMT
It’s easy to get carried away with the groundswell on here and the calls of call him up. Taking a step back, Mullin has as much chance of getting called up as I have under Page. Giggs would have had the balls to do it but Page is too conservative and too loyal. I would be surprised if the idea of calling Mullin up had even entered his thinking. My guess, based on what I read into Page, is that if anyone is going to get a look in to freshen things up it would be someone like Jack Vale. Other than that I expect the forwards for the Latvia game (which is when Mullin should be given a chance) to be the usual: Harris, Brennan, Moore, James + maybe Roberts or Vale as there is a space with Bale having retired. I actually love this post. I agree with you 100% Giggs would’ve called him up. Despite what I think I do not think Page ever will. I also agree on the Vale point and Latvia point. Giggs as much as a piece of shit he is did know when to test things. Not always things that worked out but he knew when the timing was rite to try something for example giving Billy Bodin A cap in the China cup. |
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Post by iot on Jan 30, 2023 15:23:27 GMT
I just think we have to make full use of what few options we have available to us. I don't think anyone expects him to come straight into the team vs Croatia and tear them apart, but for the Latvia game at the very least he gives us an option off the bench if we're struggling for a goal. Let's say we start with Kieffer and Brennan up front, Lativa have parked the bus and we just can't break them down, it's 0-0 at 70 mins. Realistically at that point we're in desparation mode, we need to shake it up somehow, and Page looks at the bench and sees Tyler Roberts, Mark Harris and Paul Mullin. There's only one name there that I really have any faith in. We've all seen enough of Roberts to know he's not changing the game. I like Harris more than most but he's not likely to make a massive difference either. Mullin could very well do nothing at all and look completely out of his depth, but there's the chance that his game transfers over really well to international football and he comes in and changes the game. It's worth the gamble in my view. Worst case scenario is he has zero impact, but we haven't really lost anything because it's unlikely any of the other options would have made an impact either. Definitely agree we shouldn't discard anyone given our limited resources. I'm not against selecting lower league players if that's right for the squad. I'm very happy to have Joniesta in the squad, for example, as someone with a lot of natural ability and has shown he can have an impact and has had a significant impact in most of his recent appearances. But there has to be a purpose to it and I think there's a difference between calling up someone who's shown he can do it at that level, and an older player who hasn't and would likely need a period of adjustment which isn't easy within the international environment. In terms of the scenario you put forward, I'm by no means a massive fan of Harris but we do have some actual evidence to draw on - mainly his impact out in Belarus which coincided with us overcoming a 2-1 deficit to win 3-2 and with Harris having a tangible impact on that. Having watched a lot of Cardiff games this season, there are plenty of examples where he's had an impact off the bench (some would say he's an old-school 'super sub' type impact player) - so I think you're being slightly unfair. Having said that, Harris wouldn't be my go-to player. I think there would be others beyond Harris and Roberts - the likes of Wilson and potentially Collins. In terms of the worst case scenario, if he isn't up to it and we're relying on him to rescue us against Latvia, that's obviously clearly detrimental to our prospects. Having said all that, as I said in my post, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. On balance I don't think it would be the right call, but I would very happily welcome him if he is called up. |
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Post by iot on Jan 30, 2023 15:32:21 GMT
Johnson is injured. We're drawing with Latvia at home, Moore is knackered and we have Harris, Colwill, Broadhead, T Roberts and Mullin on the bench. Which one of those do you think is most likely to come and score? After Bale's retirement, our forward cupboard is as bare as I remember, we need to explore all avenues going forward. We simply don't have the strength in depth to just ignore in form players, whatever the level. The World Cup highlighted the importance of fitness, and at the moment our fittest and in form forwards are Collins, Bradshaw and Mullin. This talk of planning for the immediate/long term is overrated. We've been doing that for 3 years and have regressed badly. Picked the best players playing right now. I don't think Mullin is much more likely to score than the other players you mention because he's totally unproven and coming in with a completely new group of people having only met them a few days previously. I think the likes of Harry Wilson / Dan James (I wouldn't expect both to make the starting lineup ), Aaron Collins and Broadhead to be next in line. I agree with some of that second point. If Mullin was 4 or 5 years younger having been on this type of run, I would definitely be all for calling him up as someone we can bed in and rely on in a 1 or 2. Alternatively, if he was producing week in / week out in the championship now I would also be in favour of calling him up. I think too many people think he could translate his Wrexham form to the international level, but it doesn't work like that when you're coming into a new environment and playing a completely different system. |
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Post by garynysmon on Jan 30, 2023 17:07:49 GMT
I think too many people think he could translate his Wrexham form to the international level, but it doesn't work like that when you're coming into a new environment and playing a completely different system. Exactly. At the moment he's playing non-league surrounded by League One players, which can't hurt when it comes to service etc. I'll be the first to admit that he perfomed better against Coventry and Sheffield United than I expected, but it still feels like a Wrexham fan campaign to get one of their own players in the int'l setup and this wouldn't be happening if he played for Notts County. |
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Post by hooky on Jan 30, 2023 17:25:39 GMT
Mullins 2 goals against 2 Championship teams with decent teams out
Mullins being 28 - that is experience. What is wrong with that? When did Kieffer get his chance in the Championship and he has actually never ever been prolific has he?
Prolific goal scorer at non-league and I believe league 2 level but also has immense work rate and can do a bit of everything. I also love how he fights for everything / for his team
Harris would not score 30-40 goals at non-league level and I think he ends up lower down the division in a couple of years. I bet Mullins assists far more too.
Mullins could play in the Championship - what we do not know is would he be a first choice or on the bench - well he could surely be first choice in a bottom half of the table team surely.
Again - 5-10 mins left versus a tier 4 team - would prefer Mullins to Harris or even Roberts as if he gets a chance there is a better chance it ends up in the net and he will at the very least make the keeper work.
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Post by jimexotic on Jan 30, 2023 17:57:00 GMT
On a sidenote, can we make sure we call him by his proper name, Mullin. We've had over 30 years of people calling Chris Eubank "Eubanks" so let's not do it Paul!
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