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Post by surge on Nov 29, 2023 20:05:11 GMT
Unless there is a shock move in January, he ends the season as an old 29 year old in League 2.
Next year he may be a 30 year old in League 2, League 1 or in the Championship.
It would be extraordinary for him to play at international level this late in his career and a fairytale for it to turn out well.
Normal thinking would be to give younger players the chance of time and experience.
He's living a bit of a fairytale at the moment, and he seems like a good bloke so am happy for him, but we'll have to see what happens.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 30, 2023 13:28:30 GMT
As much as I'm a proponent for the youth setup, I also believe age is irrelevant if it adds something to the squad that we don't have, I include the likes of Andrew Hughes in that
We don't have a player like Mullin imo, and the thing is I think you could put Tom Bradshaw and Liam Cullen in that Wrexham team and they wouldn't be scoring at the same rate as Mullin has been. Some players peak later, and I think it's clear that Mullin hit his peak in the 2020-21 season and has scored 93 goals in 129 games in the 3 whole seasons since then. You don't score 93 goals in 3 seasons at that level unless there's something about you. Again I don't believe Bradshaw/Cullen score at that rate in those leagues
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Post by iot on Nov 30, 2023 14:08:33 GMT
As much as I'm a proponent for the youth setup, I also believe age is irrelevant if it adds something to the squad that we don't have, I include the likes of Andrew Hughes in that We don't have a player like Mullin imo, and the thing is I think you could put Tom Bradshaw and Liam Cullen in that Wrexham team and they wouldn't be scoring at the same rate as Mullin has been. Some players peak later, and I think it's clear that Mullin hit his peak in the 2020-21 season and has scored 93 goals in 129 games in the 3 whole seasons since then. You don't score 93 goals in 3 seasons at that level unless there's something about you. Again I don't believe Bradshaw/Cullen score at that rate in those leagues I'm far from being a Bradshaw fan (those who remember the endless Church vs Bradshaw debate will know that), but his record in League 1 over 2 seasons was 34 goals in 70 games. Paul Mullin's record in League 1 was 3 goals in 20 games, and in League 2 it's been 77 in 248. In the Conference he's scored 64 in 86. Fair enough he's been on an upward trajectory - but he's had one outstanding season at League 2 level and this season he's dropped off slightly - still good at 7 goals in 12 games, but well below the levels of other strikers in the league. Nothing he's done has matched what Bradshaw managed in those two League 1 seasons. I think a lot of people need a reality check on this. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 30, 2023 14:17:23 GMT
As much as I'm a proponent for the youth setup, I also believe age is irrelevant if it adds something to the squad that we don't have, I include the likes of Andrew Hughes in that We don't have a player like Mullin imo, and the thing is I think you could put Tom Bradshaw and Liam Cullen in that Wrexham team and they wouldn't be scoring at the same rate as Mullin has been. Some players peak later, and I think it's clear that Mullin hit his peak in the 2020-21 season and has scored 93 goals in 129 games in the 3 whole seasons since then. You don't score 93 goals in 3 seasons at that level unless there's something about you. Again I don't believe Bradshaw/Cullen score at that rate in those leagues Bradshaw probably would, he managed 17 goals in back-to-back League 1 seasons and has carved out a solid Championship career. What I don't get about the whole Mullin thing is how players who've proven themselves at a higher level are often dragged down to big up Mullin. Bradshaw managed double figures in the Championship last season, a level Mullin's never even played at. I'm no huge fan of Liam Cullen, but he's done it in the Championship as well so should be considered ahead of Mullin on merit. |
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Post by iot on Jan 5, 2024 12:12:59 GMT
Scored a fantastic goal on Monday, following a penalty he scored in the previous game. However, prior to that he'd gone 4 games without scoring. He's having a good season with 10 goals in 19 games, but certainly not a great season. I'm sorry, but a 29yo who's having nothing more than a good season at L2 level has no business making a Welsh squad.
Looks like he's going to play out the remainder of his career at Wrexham having signed a new contract a few days ago. Will be interesting to see how he does in L1 next year if they make it, but the step up to the Championship is massive so I don't see Wrexham making that jump immediately. In all likelihood, Mullin won't get a chance to test himself in the Championship until he's about 32, if at all. Given those facts, I really can't see him playing for Wales.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 7, 2024 11:12:33 GMT
Scored a fantastic goal on Monday, following a penalty he scored in the previous game. However, prior to that he'd gone 4 games without scoring. He's having a good season with 10 goals in 19 games, but certainly not a great season. I'm sorry, but a 29yo who's having nothing more than a good season at L2 level has no business making a Welsh squad. Looks like he's going to play out the remainder of his career at Wrexham having signed a new contract a few days ago. Will be interesting to see how he does in L1 next year if they make it, but the step up to the Championship is massive so I don't see Wrexham making that jump immediately. In all likelihood, Mullin won't get a chance to test himself in the Championship until he's about 32, if at all. Given those facts, I really can't see him playing for Wales. A harsh assessment that's really lacking context imo, especially given that he had no pre-season due to injury. His first 5 games back from injury were essentially his pre-season and since then he's gone on to score or assist 12 times in 14 league games, which is a nearly a goal contribution per game If he were to keep up this ratio he'd be on track for 22 goals and 17 assists in the league (39 contributions in 46 games). If that's not a good season then I don't know what is! I also don't see Cullen/Bradshaw reaching those figures in League One as they don't add much in the way of creative play, which Mullin clearly has in spades - it's not all about the goals! |
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Post by iot on Jan 7, 2024 12:32:39 GMT
Scored a fantastic goal on Monday, following a penalty he scored in the previous game. However, prior to that he'd gone 4 games without scoring. He's having a good season with 10 goals in 19 games, but certainly not a great season. I'm sorry, but a 29yo who's having nothing more than a good season at L2 level has no business making a Welsh squad. Looks like he's going to play out the remainder of his career at Wrexham having signed a new contract a few days ago. Will be interesting to see how he does in L1 next year if they make it, but the step up to the Championship is massive so I don't see Wrexham making that jump immediately. In all likelihood, Mullin won't get a chance to test himself in the Championship until he's about 32, if at all. Given those facts, I really can't see him playing for Wales. A harsh assessment that's really lacking context imo, especially given that he had no pre-season due to injury. His first 5 games back from injury were essentially his pre-season and since then he's gone on to score or assist 12 times in 14 league games, which is a nearly a goal contribution per game If he were to keep up this ratio he'd be on track for 22 goals and 17 assists in the league (39 contributions in 46 games). If that's not a good season then I don't know what is! I also don't see Cullen/Bradshaw reaching those figures in League One as they don't add much in the way of creative play, which Mullin clearly has in spades - it's not all about the goals! That's not quite accurate and there's some selective use of statistics going on there. He played in a couple of preseason games before getting injured, and then returned a few games into the season. Yes I'm sure his first couple of games were needed to get him back up to speed, but he hasn't been ripping up the league since then - he's been good, but there are other players in the league that have been better (in fact, he hasn't been the best Wrexham player during that period). He's also not nearly as creative as you make out. He set up three goals this season, which is what he achieved throughout the whole of last season. Also just to correct you, I said he is having a good League 2 season, but not a great one - and for him to be good enough to play ahead of our Championship forwards, he should be the best player in League 2 bar none. I'm no great fan of Tom Bradshaw, but he did have a record of scoring 1 in every 2 games for Walsall in League 1 which matches Mullin's League 2 record this season and at a level Mullin has never achieved at the age of 29. I like Mullin and enjoy watching him do well for Wrexham. I think he's great for Welsh football through the impact he's had on that club. It's just unfortunate that his career didn't take off until he was about 26, and he decided to take a backward step in the football pyramid at that time and has made another decision to stick with that project (and why wouldn't he!). As a result of those decisions, he's unlikely to be able to prove himself in the Championship until he's at least 32. I don't begrudge him for it, he had some very good personal and commercial reasons for making those decisions. However, there are clear implications for his international prospects. I find all this talk of 'if you know where the back of the net is, you can do it at any level' complete tosh and am highly sceptical about him being able to tear it up with Wales. Others have earnt the opportunity ahead of him - and I'm not saying that in a petty way, I'm looking at it at a practical level thinking about his age, the level he's playing at, and the very limited opportunities you get to test new things and players in international games. |
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Post by jimexotic on Jan 7, 2024 12:37:40 GMT
It's worth remembering how well Mullin played against Championship opposition in the FA Cup last season.
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Post by iot on Jan 7, 2024 16:21:08 GMT
Thought he was a good 7/10 today against solid L1 opposition. Nothing special, but his fighting spirit is brilliant to watch (lucky not to be sent off mind you).
I think that's the first time I've seen a full 90-min Wrexham game with George Evans starting. I thought he was brilliant and Wrexham's best player by far today. He's exactly the type of player I thought they needed when watching them last season.
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Post by surge on Jan 7, 2024 16:48:41 GMT
It's easy to see why people like him with his passion, being more skillful and thinking more quickly than many of his peers. He probably would have been sent off if VAR was used mind and didn't threaten their goal.
Today was a bigger test of Wrexham than the cup games against Championship teams last year, imo.
They had a hefty chunk of luck with Shrewsbury missing three big chances but also showed more resilience than they were doing during promotion season and earlier in the campaign.
Still a bit worrying that so many key players are 28+. It's not a squad that will have too much growing left to do and will need updating next summer.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Jan 7, 2024 22:50:13 GMT
Thought he was a good 7/10 today against solid L1 opposition. Nothing special, but his fighting spirit is brilliant to watch (lucky not to be sent off mind you). I think that's the first time I've seen a full 90-min Wrexham game with George Evans starting. I thought he was brilliant and Wrexham's best player by far today. He's exactly the type of player I thought they needed when watching them last season. Evans was super but O'Connor got my MOTM. If we go up he'll probably be on Ireland's radar, looks way beyond his years. I hope we tie him down to a long contract soon. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 9, 2024 10:07:43 GMT
A harsh assessment that's really lacking context imo, especially given that he had no pre-season due to injury. His first 5 games back from injury were essentially his pre-season and since then he's gone on to score or assist 12 times in 14 league games, which is a nearly a goal contribution per game If he were to keep up this ratio he'd be on track for 22 goals and 17 assists in the league (39 contributions in 46 games). If that's not a good season then I don't know what is! I also don't see Cullen/Bradshaw reaching those figures in League One as they don't add much in the way of creative play, which Mullin clearly has in spades - it's not all about the goals! That's not quite accurate and there's some selective use of statistics going on there. He played in a couple of preseason games before getting injured, and then returned a few games into the season. Yes I'm sure his first couple of games were needed to get him back up to speed, but he hasn't been ripping up the league since then - he's been good, but there are other players in the league that have been better (in fact, he hasn't been the best Wrexham player during that period). He's also not nearly as creative as you make out. He set up three goals this season, which is what he achieved throughout the whole of last season. Also just to correct you, I said he is having a good League 2 season, but not a great one - and for him to be good enough to play ahead of our Championship forwards, he should be the best player in League 2 bar none. I'm no great fan of Tom Bradshaw, but he did have a record of scoring 1 in every 2 games for Walsall in League 1 which matches Mullin's League 2 record this season and at a level Mullin has never achieved at the age of 29. I like Mullin and enjoy watching him do well for Wrexham. I think he's great for Welsh football through the impact he's had on that club. It's just unfortunate that his career didn't take off until he was about 26, and he decided to take a backward step in the football pyramid at that time and has made another decision to stick with that project (and why wouldn't he!). As a result of those decisions, he's unlikely to be able to prove himself in the Championship until he's at least 32. I don't begrudge him for it, he had some very good personal and commercial reasons for making those decisions. However, there are clear implications for his international prospects. I find all this talk of 'if you know where the back of the net is, you can do it at any level' complete tosh and am highly sceptical about him being able to tear it up with Wales. Others have earnt the opportunity ahead of him - and I'm not saying that in a petty way, I'm looking at it at a practical level thinking about his age, the level he's playing at, and the very limited opportunities you get to test new things and players in international games. What's your definition of ripping up the league? He has 14 goal contributions in 19 games when you don't remove those first 5 fixtures, I only removed them because he was still clearly not yet match fit but he actually scored 2 in 5 in that time so it's not being selective If he continues at the same pace, 14 contributions in 19 games is equivalent to 34 goal contributions in 46 games. I'd say that is ripping it up, not too many players in our player pool would hit that figure in that league Also you're comparing Tom Bradshaw's best season to Mullin's current season, which doesn't make sense. Mullin's best season saw him get 36 gc's in 46 games in League Two which is a better ratio than Bradshaw's best season in League One. However, I'm not saying I dislike Bradshaw, or that I would drop Bradshaw for Mullin, I'd still have him in the squad. I want Mullin included ahead of Cullen. Having watched both several times, I believe that if you put Cullen in that Wrexham team he scores less than Mullin, and if you put Mullin in that Swansea team he scores more than Cullen My issue with the arguments you're saying at the end of your post is that I'm not saying Mullin could do it at any level, nor am I saying he'd tear it up at international level. In Mullin, I see a player who has the right attributes & mentality to be a good impact player for us. If a chance falls his way he takes it. He's shown that in his FA Cup performances against Championship teams (in the case of Sheff Utd that was a PL team to be as well). I think it's a mistake to rule someone out due to age when their peak is later. Kieffer Moore wasn't a spring chicken when we brought him in, and it would have been a mistake to rule him out due to age Ultimately I just think we need to judge Mullin's season at the end of 23/24 and I think talk of this not being a great season for him is very premature |
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Post by wirralwelsh on Jan 9, 2024 18:06:53 GMT
English League 2 is a woeful standard of football, and no team in Europe other than San Marino and Gibraltar would likely consider calling up players from it, unless they were far above other players in the division in standard, which Mullin doesn't appear to be.He's not even been the best player at Wrexham.
If Wrexham get promoted and he knocks in 50 goal in League One next season then he comes in to consideration. He's not even proved himself at that level yet though.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jan 9, 2024 22:37:02 GMT
Not the best player in Wrexham? Then who is?
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Post by marsvolta on Jan 9, 2024 22:58:50 GMT
I know social media is a weird and crazy place but why, when there is talk of Mullin getting called up, is Twitter, Facebook,etc full of people saying that Mullin isn’t really Welsh?
Firstly, yes we know.
Secondly, he’s far from the first to play for us after qualifying due to the grandparent rule and he certainly won’t be the last to use that criteria.
Yet for some reason, there seems to be more comments about Mullin not being born in Wales than any other anglo we’ve selected. Anyone know why?
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Post by garynysmon on Jan 9, 2024 23:53:46 GMT
Yet for some reason, there seems to be more comments about Mullin not being born in Wales than any other anglo we’ve selected. Anyone know why? Well clearly, given Ashley Williams was our captain during Euro 2016, rather tenuous Welsh links have never stopped us before and is a rather futile argument. Many other players with only grandparental links will play for us I'm sure. If I tried to have a stab at it, I'd imagine the backlash derives from a feeling by some that if he played for any other League 2 club (or non-league last season) that the calls would be nowhere near as vociferous. Call it jealousy or whatever you like. |
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Post by iot on Jan 9, 2024 23:56:05 GMT
That's not quite accurate and there's some selective use of statistics going on there. He played in a couple of preseason games before getting injured, and then returned a few games into the season. Yes I'm sure his first couple of games were needed to get him back up to speed, but he hasn't been ripping up the league since then - he's been good, but there are other players in the league that have been better (in fact, he hasn't been the best Wrexham player during that period). He's also not nearly as creative as you make out. He set up three goals this season, which is what he achieved throughout the whole of last season. Also just to correct you, I said he is having a good League 2 season, but not a great one - and for him to be good enough to play ahead of our Championship forwards, he should be the best player in League 2 bar none. I'm no great fan of Tom Bradshaw, but he did have a record of scoring 1 in every 2 games for Walsall in League 1 which matches Mullin's League 2 record this season and at a level Mullin has never achieved at the age of 29. I like Mullin and enjoy watching him do well for Wrexham. I think he's great for Welsh football through the impact he's had on that club. It's just unfortunate that his career didn't take off until he was about 26, and he decided to take a backward step in the football pyramid at that time and has made another decision to stick with that project (and why wouldn't he!). As a result of those decisions, he's unlikely to be able to prove himself in the Championship until he's at least 32. I don't begrudge him for it, he had some very good personal and commercial reasons for making those decisions. However, there are clear implications for his international prospects. I find all this talk of 'if you know where the back of the net is, you can do it at any level' complete tosh and am highly sceptical about him being able to tear it up with Wales. Others have earnt the opportunity ahead of him - and I'm not saying that in a petty way, I'm looking at it at a practical level thinking about his age, the level he's playing at, and the very limited opportunities you get to test new things and players in international games. What's your definition of ripping up the league? He has 14 goal contributions in 19 games when you don't remove those first 5 fixtures, I only removed them because he was still clearly not yet match fit but he actually scored 2 in 5 in that time so it's not being selective If he continues at the same pace, 14 contributions in 19 games is equivalent to 34 goal contributions in 46 games. I'd say that is ripping it up, not too many players in our player pool would hit that figure in that league Also you're comparing Tom Bradshaw's best season to Mullin's current season, which doesn't make sense. Mullin's best season saw him get 36 gc's in 46 games in League Two which is a better ratio than Bradshaw's best season in League One. However, I'm not saying I dislike Bradshaw, or that I would drop Bradshaw for Mullin, I'd still have him in the squad. I want Mullin included ahead of Cullen. Having watched both several times, I believe that if you put Cullen in that Wrexham team he scores less than Mullin, and if you put Mullin in that Swansea team he scores more than Cullen My issue with the arguments you're saying at the end of your post is that I'm not saying Mullin could do it at any level, nor am I saying he'd tear it up at international level. In Mullin, I see a player who has the right attributes & mentality to be a good impact player for us. If a chance falls his way he takes it. He's shown that in his FA Cup performances against Championship teams (in the case of Sheff Utd that was a PL team to be as well). I think it's a mistake to rule someone out due to age when their peak is later. Kieffer Moore wasn't a spring chicken when we brought him in, and it would have been a mistake to rule him out due to age Ultimately I just think we need to judge Mullin's season at the end of 23/24 and I think talk of this not being a great season for him is very premature I think he's doing very well, but there's a few players in the league that have been better, and there's nothing to say that he would be able to replicate those numbers at a higher level. Whisper it quietly, but there have been a good few games this season where he's actually been fairly ineffective. I compared Bradshaw's most recent seasons in League 1 (spanning two seasons and 70 games btw!) with Mullin's latest season in League 2. Unless you think Bradshaw's much worse than he was back then, I think that's a fair comparison to make. Why would I compare Mullin's numbers of 3 or 4 years ago when we're debating the merit of calling him up now with what he's currently producing? You think Mullin should be our 4th choice striker ahead of Cullen. Fair enough. Someone else was saying the other day that they thought Cullen has a key part to play in the future of Welsh football. I disagree with both of you, and think both have very little to offer the national side. 'In Mullin, I see a player who has the right attributes & mentality to be a good impact player for us. If a chance falls his way he takes it. He's shown that in his FA Cup performances against Championship teams (in the case of Sheff Utd that was a PL team to be as well). I think it's a mistake to rule someone out due to age when their peak is later. Kieffer Moore wasn't a spring chicken when we brought him in, and it would have been a mistake to rule him out due to age' I think there's quite a few weaknesses in that argument. Firstly, 3 games against championship sides (where 2 of the 3 goals he scored were penalties) is not sufficient to suggest that he's an improvement on the players currently being selected. On your point about his age, Kieffer was playing in the Championship at the time he was called up. My whole point is, Mullin has made a series of decisions which mean that he won't be able to test himself at that level until he's well into his 30s, and I do think it will be too late at that point. I certainly don't think that what he's producing in League 2 is enough to get him a callup for the playoffs or for the Euros if we make it. Who knows, if he scores a crazy amount of goals in the first half of the season in League 1, maybe it's worth considering calling up a 30yo Mullin to have an impact on our world cup qualifying campaign. I just don't see it. |
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Post by wirralwelsh on Jan 10, 2024 1:04:28 GMT
Not the best player in Wrexham? Then who is? Elliot Lee seems to have been this season, by a distance. Maybe he'll dig out a Welsh granny too, but I'd still not pick him! |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Jan 12, 2024 6:33:09 GMT
English League 2 is a woeful standard of football, and no team in Europe other than San Marino and Gibraltar would likely consider calling up players from it, unless they were far above other players in the division in standard, which Mullin doesn't appear to be.He's not even been the best player at Wrexham. If Wrexham get promoted and he knocks in 50 goal in League One next season then he comes in to consideration. He's not even proved himself at that level yet though. Ireland called up James McClean earlier this season. |
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Post by daearegwr on Jan 12, 2024 13:59:16 GMT
English League 2 is a woeful standard of football, and no team in Europe other than San Marino and Gibraltar would likely consider calling up players from it, unless they were far above other players in the division in standard, which Mullin doesn't appear to be.He's not even been the best player at Wrexham. If Wrexham get promoted and he knocks in 50 goal in League One next season then he comes in to consideration. He's not even proved himself at that level yet though. Ireland called up James McClean earlier this season. And I think some are forgetting we took Jonny Williams to a World Cup when he was playing League 2 football |
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Post by iot on Jan 12, 2024 14:29:33 GMT
Ireland called up James McClean earlier this season. And I think some are forgetting we took Jonny Williams to a World Cup when he was playing League 2 football I think there is a pretty clear difference in both of these examples - they were both proven quantities within their international setups, had been effective at an international level over several years, and also been effective higher up the football league at various points before dropping down for different reasons (McClean - age, Joniesta - injuries). The best comparison I can think of is Pádraig Amond who received a call up to the Irish squad after doing reasonably well for Newport in League 2 for a couple of seasons. He didn't go on to have any impact at international level, and I suspect the same would be true of Mullin. |
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Post by robin1864 on Jan 12, 2024 16:05:09 GMT
League Two was the highest level Steve Evans played at before Wales came knocking. Neil Taylor played in the Conference a month before his first Wales cap. Dennis Lawrence was a League Two player who captained his nation at the World Cup. We've currently got Levitt and Smith playing in the Scottish Premier, which outside of the Old Firm consists of clubs between League One-Two levels. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy when Joniesta and McClean get mentioned is mildly amusing, but ultimately there's some shameful goalpost shifting going on here in an attempt to minimise Mullin's performances over the past few seasons. Kieffer was yo-yo'ing between every division and had done nothing of note before declaring for Wales. Mullin's a prolific goalscorer and offers something direct and declared for us, so should be considered a viable option. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Jan 12, 2024 18:16:57 GMT
And I think some are forgetting we took Jonny Williams to a World Cup when he was playing League 2 football I think there is a pretty clear difference in both of these examples - they were both proven quantities within their international setups, had been effective at an international level over several years, and also been effective higher up the football league at various points before dropping down for different reasons (McClean - age, Joniesta - injuries). The best comparison I can think of is Pádraig Amond who received a call up to the Irish squad after doing reasonably well for Newport in League 2 for a couple of seasons. He didn't go on to have any impact at international level, and I suspect the same would be true of Mullin. Having seen Amond on a few occasions, he has never been anywhere near Mullin's level. |
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Post by manulike on Jan 12, 2024 20:32:03 GMT
League Two was the highest level Steve Evans played at before Wales came knocking. Neil Taylor played in the Conference a month before his first Wales cap. Dennis Lawrence was a League Two player who captained his nation at the World Cup. We've currently got Levitt and Smith playing in the Scottish Premier, which outside of the Old Firm consists of clubs between League One-Two levels. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy when Joniesta and McClean get mentioned is mildly amusing, but ultimately there's some shameful goalpost shifting going on here in an attempt to minimise Mullin's performances over the past few seasons. Kieffer was yo-yo'ing between every division and had done nothing of note before declaring for Wales. Mullin's a prolific goalscorer and offers something direct and declared for us, so should be considered a viable option. Maybe John Toshack just had more balls than our Robert and playing Steve Evans (while at Wrexham btw) was jis one more example.
#Finalnd.On.Mullin.Alart |
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Post by garynysmon on Jan 13, 2024 8:55:03 GMT
League Two was the highest level Steve Evans played at before Wales came knocking. Neil Taylor played in the Conference a month before his first Wales cap. Dennis Lawrence was a League Two player who captained his nation at the World Cup. We've currently got Levitt and Smith playing in the Scottish Premier, which outside of the Old Firm consists of clubs between League One-Two levels. Steve Evans' period was probably our weakest in terms of quality, certainly squad depth-wise, in several decades (possibly ever). Paul Mullin would have got in that squad no problem, but thankfully we're not in that bad a position these days. That said, he was no better a player than he was when winning everything with TNS in previous seasons. The SPL (like the Cymru Prem in many ways) can vary significantly in quality from the top to bottom. Levitt plays for Hibernian, one of Scotland's historic clubs that get 15,000-odd watching them every week. Hibs are not a League Two equivalent club. I don't think calling up Mullin would be outrageous by any stretch, but it would still have to be considered an anomaly. |
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Post by marsvolta on Jan 13, 2024 14:36:05 GMT
League Two was the highest level Steve Evans played at before Wales came knocking. Neil Taylor played in the Conference a month before his first Wales cap. Dennis Lawrence was a League Two player who captained his nation at the World Cup. We've currently got Levitt and Smith playing in the Scottish Premier, which outside of the Old Firm consists of clubs between League One-Two levels. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy when Joniesta and McClean get mentioned is mildly amusing, but ultimately there's some shameful goalpost shifting going on here in an attempt to minimise Mullin's performances over the past few seasons. Kieffer was yo-yo'ing between every division and had done nothing of note before declaring for Wales. Mullin's a prolific goalscorer and offers something direct and declared for us, so should be considered a viable option. Maybe John Toshack just had more balls than our Robert and playing Steve Evans (while at Wrexham btw) was jis one more example. #Finalnd.On.Mullin.Alart I personally would love Mullin to get a call up to see what he can do, but the desperate measures around the squad when Tosh called up Steve Evans is not any way comparable to now and i don’t want to go back to those days. |
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Post by manulike on Jan 13, 2024 18:27:01 GMT
Another goal today.
2nd in the league with a game in hand (over them in 1st and them in 4th).
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 14, 2024 10:20:32 GMT
What's your definition of ripping up the league? He has 14 goal contributions in 19 games when you don't remove those first 5 fixtures, I only removed them because he was still clearly not yet match fit but he actually scored 2 in 5 in that time so it's not being selective If he continues at the same pace, 14 contributions in 19 games is equivalent to 34 goal contributions in 46 games. I'd say that is ripping it up, not too many players in our player pool would hit that figure in that league Also you're comparing Tom Bradshaw's best season to Mullin's current season, which doesn't make sense. Mullin's best season saw him get 36 gc's in 46 games in League Two which is a better ratio than Bradshaw's best season in League One. However, I'm not saying I dislike Bradshaw, or that I would drop Bradshaw for Mullin, I'd still have him in the squad. I want Mullin included ahead of Cullen. Having watched both several times, I believe that if you put Cullen in that Wrexham team he scores less than Mullin, and if you put Mullin in that Swansea team he scores more than Cullen My issue with the arguments you're saying at the end of your post is that I'm not saying Mullin could do it at any level, nor am I saying he'd tear it up at international level. In Mullin, I see a player who has the right attributes & mentality to be a good impact player for us. If a chance falls his way he takes it. He's shown that in his FA Cup performances against Championship teams (in the case of Sheff Utd that was a PL team to be as well). I think it's a mistake to rule someone out due to age when their peak is later. Kieffer Moore wasn't a spring chicken when we brought him in, and it would have been a mistake to rule him out due to age Ultimately I just think we need to judge Mullin's season at the end of 23/24 and I think talk of this not being a great season for him is very premature I think he's doing very well, but there's a few players in the league that have been better, and there's nothing to say that he would be able to replicate those numbers at a higher level. Whisper it quietly, but there have been a good few games this season where he's actually been fairly ineffective. I compared Bradshaw's most recent seasons in League 1 (spanning two seasons and 70 games btw!) with Mullin's latest season in League 2. Unless you think Bradshaw's much worse than he was back then, I think that's a fair comparison to make. Why would I compare Mullin's numbers of 3 or 4 years ago when we're debating the merit of calling him up now with what he's currently producing? You think Mullin should be our 4th choice striker ahead of Cullen. Fair enough. Someone else was saying the other day that they thought Cullen has a key part to play in the future of Welsh football. I disagree with both of you, and think both have very little to offer the national side. 'In Mullin, I see a player who has the right attributes & mentality to be a good impact player for us. If a chance falls his way he takes it. He's shown that in his FA Cup performances against Championship teams (in the case of Sheff Utd that was a PL team to be as well). I think it's a mistake to rule someone out due to age when their peak is later. Kieffer Moore wasn't a spring chicken when we brought him in, and it would have been a mistake to rule him out due to age' I think there's quite a few weaknesses in that argument. Firstly, 3 games against championship sides (where 2 of the 3 goals he scored were penalties) is not sufficient to suggest that he's an improvement on the players currently being selected. On your point about his age, Kieffer was playing in the Championship at the time he was called up. My whole point is, Mullin has made a series of decisions which mean that he won't be able to test himself at that level until he's well into his 30s, and I do think it will be too late at that point. I certainly don't think that what he's producing in League 2 is enough to get him a callup for the playoffs or for the Euros if we make it. Who knows, if he scores a crazy amount of goals in the first half of the season in League 1, maybe it's worth considering calling up a 30yo Mullin to have an impact on our world cup qualifying campaign. I just don't see it. I think it's widely accepted that Mullin has improved with time and peaked late, so I think including his numbers from the season that it's obvious he started peaking is fair, because the only reason he didn't then move up a level is due to the unique circumstance with Wrexham If you think he has little to offer the national side then you might be right, but I see him as someone who could come on and grab a potentially important winning goal in the odd game here and there, which COULD end up being important. So I guess it depends how you define "having little to offer". 2 goals might be little to offer, but if they're 2 winning goals off the bench that help us get promoted in the Nations League or something then it's a good contribution imo Those 3 games against Championship sides I think Mullin was MOTM in 2 of them, and had a very good game in the other. I watched all 3 and it's those games that initially made me consider him internationally because I thought he looked immense, and ran a soon to be PL defence ragged. Yes 2 of his goals were pens, but he won them both as well, he was a bit of a 1 man show "I certainly don't think that what he's producing in League 2 is enough to get him a callup for the playoffs or for the Euros if we make it" I just think it's too soon to make the statements you're making here. As I've said if he continues and reaches 34 goal contributions this season in the league, and Wrexham get promoted, that only furthers his claim to get a call up. You might not think that's enough, but I'd take that as a demonstration he's ready for the next level up by which point can we really say that we know Cullen is better (currently on 4 goals in 25 league games). I don't think so. If we get to that point I'd want to see Mullin given a chance to see if he is at the level, and if he's not then we know for sure Also sometimes it's not necessarily about your league form, it's about your attributes. Players like Joniesta consistently played at a lower level than most players on the pitch at international level, and yet often he would show these players up due to his attributes and the things he's good at. After watching Mullin against Championship players I get the same feeling with him. I could be wrong of course, but that my opinion on him |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jan 14, 2024 11:17:22 GMT
Mullin has more attributes than Cullen, that's for sure, and Cullen is getting into squads on a regular basis. It would be great if the attacking options at our disposal rendered this discussion academic, but that isn't the case. Mullin is a credible option for sure, but he needs an excellent season to have a chance of inclusion in the squad.
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Post by jimexotic on Jan 14, 2024 12:35:49 GMT
The argument that Mullin isn't Welsh really annoys me. He has the bloodline but not only that, and this I think carries a lot of weight, he works in Wales and is adored by the people of the area he works in. I've always thought that if you live somewhere long enough and that place has an impact on you it can make you feel like you are from that area. If I lived in Andorra, played for a local side that went on a crazy journey and the fans idolised me I'd play for Andorra if there was a technicality that allowed it, knowing full well that the Wales dream is over. Mullin already has dual nationality, I don't know why the media and people have such an issue with it, whether it's League Two Paul Mullin, League One Joe Morrell or Premier League Chris Mepham, especially when the English national side owes so much to the Windrush generation and more recently countries like Nigeria.
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