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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 4, 2023 12:51:31 GMT
If we use friendlies to justify an area's appetite for matches then Cardiff clearly doesn't want any Wales games Panama 2017: 13k Belarus 2019: 7k Czechia 2022: 12k S.Korea 2023: 13k Obviously that's a silly rationale. If we played Nations League games in Cae Ra's it's a guaranteed sell out, especially with the new stand Context is key, see my previous post. The north has seen very little international football over the last couple of decades (which is obviously not the case in Cardiff), so if the perceived desperation for internationals to return were true then I think we'd see more than 7k sales, even for a friendly against Gibraltar. It's an opportunity to see Wales play at y Cae Ras - that should be the draw. I still think it will sell out, but to be fair to the Gogs of all the possible games I think a B game against Gibraltar is right at the bottom of the list of draws |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 4, 2023 12:55:49 GMT
The game's sold out. What are the chances the same game in Cardiff would have sold 10k tickets? Virtually none I'd say. Fans up here are feeding off the scraps the FAW is giving us. Besides, if the appetite isn't in the North as you're keen to argue, why should that stop us from bringing more games up here? Should we not be looking to grow the fanbase rather than alienate those who do bother travelling more? I'm speaking as somebody who is currently travelling less and less to home games by the way as I'm already feeling alienated. 'if the appetite isn't in the North as you're keen to argue, why should that stop us from bringing more games up here? Should we not be looking to grow the fanbase rather than alienate those who do bother travelling more?' It shouldn't. I think it's right that this game is played in Wrecsam. I think ideally one of the nations league games would have been played in Wrecsam too (although I seem to have a vague memory that it wasn't possible at the time). My only point is that people are always keen to say that the north is hard done by because the demand is not being catered for, but the evidence of that demand (beyond the 3-5k hardcore) is pretty weak. Certainly a case can be made for holding more games in Wrecsam to build demand and ensure we take the game closer to everyone throughout the country, but that has to be balanced against several other factors - primarily, what gives us the greatest chance of success directly on the field and through maximising the commercial opportunity to invest in the wider game. I only commented because you described the current situation as a joke, but I think there are good reasons which are usually not appreciated or just ignored in favour of bringing out the more popular line of how hard-done by the north is. I think your point on appetite is incorrect, we have sold out this friendly and sold out the Trinidad friendly. We can't do much more than that. Given these are very uninteresting games where we only play fringe players, I'd say that's very good going and shows plenty of appetite. Even with the kop built, tickets for a competitive game would be snatched up in a heartbeat. I do hope we bring more of those games up north once it is but I won't hold my breath. It's quite easy to dismiss the issue when you live down south. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 4, 2023 12:56:19 GMT
Context is key, see my previous post. The north has seen very little international football over the last couple of decades (which is obviously not the case in Cardiff), so if the perceived desperation for internationals to return were true then I think we'd see more than 7k sales, even for a friendly against Gibraltar. It's an opportunity to see Wales play at y Cae Ras - that should be the draw. I still think it will sell out, but to be fair to the Gogs of all the possible games I think a B game against Gibraltar is right at the bottom of the list of draws It's sold out now. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 4, 2023 14:32:50 GMT
I still think it will sell out, but to be fair to the Gogs of all the possible games I think a B game against Gibraltar is right at the bottom of the list of draws It's sold out now. There we go as I expected! I'm a southerner but all for the north getting more games. As I said I'd be happy to see multiple Nations League games there & in the long term would be against hosting our Nations League campaigns there as a matter of ritual If Wrecsam go up a few levels and continue to grow, what's the maximum you could see Cae Ras being expanded to? Would 25k be achievable in the Championship for example? |
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Post by garynysmon on Oct 5, 2023 8:43:41 GMT
It's quite easy to dismiss the issue when you live down south. Absolutely. I can't emphasise enough what a difference it makes when you drive 30 mins to Cardiff after work, compared to considering if its really worth driving 4 hours each way, losing 2 days off work, paying for a hotel in Cardiff and very conservatively spending another £60 on beer. Its often more hassle getting to home games in Cardiff than flying to an away game. And while I realise we don't necessarily have to stay overnight or drink while I'm there, if I'm driving that far then you bet that I expect a night out at least! |
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Post by jimbo82 on Oct 5, 2023 10:23:14 GMT
It's quite easy to dismiss the issue when you live down south. Absolutely. I can't emphasise enough what a difference it makes when you drive 30 mins to Cardiff after work, compared to considering if its really worth driving 4 hours each way, losing 2 days off work, paying for a hotel in Cardiff and very conservatively spending another £60 on beer. Its often more hassle getting to home games in Cardiff than flying to an away game. And while I realise we don't necessarily have to stay overnight or drink while I'm there, if I'm driving that far then you bet that I expect a night out at least! You make some good points there about how difficult it is to travel, and that you like a night out. But is £60 really a conservative estimate for beer? Even at £5 a pint that's 12 pints! |
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Post by paj on Oct 5, 2023 14:14:49 GMT
Not just beer obviously. Have you seen the price of crisps these days!
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Oct 5, 2023 14:19:20 GMT
Easily done. Trouble is... you end up buying rounds, and don't always get your beers back from mates who go AWOL!
(Also, garyynysmon may have been including kebabs and/or local streetfood bites in his £60 'beer kitty'!)
* * * * *
On another point, someone referred to these Sept/Oct friendlies as "very uninteresting games". I disagree. The game against Korea was very watchable and - as Gibraltar will also be - a good opportunity for some players of ours desperately in need of minutes on the pitch to warm-up ahead of the next qualifier.
14,000 turned up for Korea, and there'll be 10,000 in Wrexham. These are not bad crowd figures, and lots of genuine fans enjoy watching Wales play senior international matches regardless of our line-up/the opposition.
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Post by garynysmon on Oct 6, 2023 6:34:33 GMT
Easily done. Trouble is... you end up buying rounds, and don't always get your beers back from mates who go AWOL! (Also, garyynysmon may have been including kebabs and/or local streetfood bites in his £60 'beer kitty'!) Sounds terrible doesn't it?! |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 6, 2023 6:37:43 GMT
(Not so) fun fact: Gareth Bale, Aaron Ramsey and Joe Allen never played a full international match in Wrexham.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 6, 2023 6:57:59 GMT
There we go as I expected! I'm a southerner but all for the north getting more games. As I said I'd be happy to see multiple Nations League games there & in the long term would be against hosting our Nations League campaigns there as a matter of ritual If Wrecsam go up a few levels and continue to grow, what's the maximum you could see Cae Ras being expanded to? Would 25k be achievable in the Championship for example? 20k is what I'd envisage but we will have issues expanding the rest of the ground. The Yale Stand has a block of student flats behind it owned by previous owners Geoff Moss and Ian Roberts, the pair who very nearly sent us bust in 2011. To expand this stand we will likely need to buy and demolish these, and you can bet Moss & Roberts will know its worth to us and hold out for a huge sum. The uni stand behind the goal would likely need to expand into the uni car park if being expanded. We would need to buy land off the university for this to happen. Potentially cheaper than what it would cost to revamp the Yale, but supposedly Rob McElhenney wants to do the Yale next. Macron stand is our newest stand but was originally built on the cheap. It backs onto a main road so would be far from straightforward to build on. If we do anything with the stand, I think we'll try to keep the structure and just improve facilities in there. The Kop has already been delayed and probably won't be ready until the 25/26 season at the earliest. It'll probably be 2030 by the time we have 2 new stands and that we would likely need to be in the Championship to justify it. A long time off. Once the kop is built we will have a capacity of around 16,000. I'd argue that's plenty for a Nations league game/lower tier qualifier, especially if we aren't qualifying for tournaments. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Oct 6, 2023 16:40:02 GMT
Once the Kop is built it won’t be far short of Swansea capacity.
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 6, 2023 21:57:19 GMT
Once the Kop is built it won’t be far short of Swansea capacity. 15.5k isn’t even 75% of 21k, it’s way off. |
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Post by bracklablue72 on Oct 7, 2023 0:39:57 GMT
Once the Kop is built it won’t be far short of Swansea capacity. 15.5k isn’t even 75% of 21k, it’s way off. Lol, it’s not ‘way off’ at all |
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 7, 2023 8:11:01 GMT
15.5k isn’t even 75% of 21k, it’s way off. Lol, it’s not ‘way off’ at all It is mathematically. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 7, 2023 10:42:25 GMT
There we go as I expected! I'm a southerner but all for the north getting more games. As I said I'd be happy to see multiple Nations League games there & in the long term would be against hosting our Nations League campaigns there as a matter of ritual If Wrecsam go up a few levels and continue to grow, what's the maximum you could see Cae Ras being expanded to? Would 25k be achievable in the Championship for example? 20k is what I'd envisage but we will have issues expanding the rest of the ground. The Yale Stand has a block of student flats behind it owned by previous owners Geoff Moss and Ian Roberts, the pair who very nearly sent us bust in 2011. To expand this stand we will likely need to buy and demolish these, and you can bet Moss & Roberts will know its worth to us and hold out for a huge sum. The uni stand behind the goal would likely need to expand into the uni car park if being expanded. We would need to buy land off the university for this to happen. Potentially cheaper than what it would cost to revamp the Yale, but supposedly Rob McElhenney wants to do the Yale next. Macron stand is our newest stand but was originally built on the cheap. It backs onto a main road so would be far from straightforward to build on. If we do anything with the stand, I think we'll try to keep the structure and just improve facilities in there. The Kop has already been delayed and probably won't be ready until the 25/26 season at the earliest. It'll probably be 2030 by the time we have 2 new stands and that we would likely need to be in the Championship to justify it. A long time off. Once the kop is built we will have a capacity of around 16,000. I'd argue that's plenty for a Nations league game/lower tier qualifier, especially if we aren't qualifying for tournaments. Interesting! |
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Post by jimbo82 on Oct 7, 2023 12:49:40 GMT
Lol, it’s not ‘way off’ at all It is mathematically. 75% of 21000 is 15750. So mathematically I'm comfortable with saying 15500 is approximately 75%. (It's actually 73.8%) |
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 8, 2023 7:49:41 GMT
75% of 21000 is 15750. So mathematically I'm comfortable with saying 15500 is approximately 75%. (It's actually 73.8%) 15750 is not near 21000 which is what I was saying. |
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Post by iot on Oct 8, 2023 15:37:47 GMT
I think we should use this game the same we used the South Korea friendly in the last window, which actually worked well. So instead of just playing a B team, it's a chance to give minutes to the players and combinations that need it to ensure they sharpen up for Croatia. So with that in mind, I'd probably go for:
Ward
Lockyer Rodon Davies (Cabango/Meps 60)
Burns JJ (60 Sheehan) Ampadu (Savage 45) Neco (Beck 60)
Brooks (Harris 60)
Moore (Cullen 60) Bradshaw
Pretty sure you can only make 6 subs in these friendlies, so I'd go for something like that. Would prefer to give Dan James 45 too just to get him that little bit sharper, and would take Lockyer off early given the choice, but limited by subs. We obviously need to give Ward the 90 to build up his sharpness. I think Lockyer should start against Croatia - I don't think he's played for us in about 3-4 years so he needs to be reintegrated. Davies could do with some minutes but should be taken off early to protect him - same for Neco, JJ and Moore. I would also probably start Ampadu too - he definitely doesn't need the minutes, but might be good just to build his and James' understanding that little bit more with a daunting task of facing that Croatian midfield coming up.
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 8, 2023 17:03:01 GMT
Joe Low called up to replace Cabango
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 9, 2023 10:36:47 GMT
I think we should use this game the same we used the South Korea friendly in the last window, which actually worked well. So instead of just playing a B team, it's a chance to give minutes to the players and combinations that need it to ensure they sharpen up for Croatia. So with that in mind, I'd probably go for: Ward Lockyer Rodon Davies (Cabango/Meps 60) Burns JJ (60 Sheehan) Ampadu (Savage 45) Neco (Beck 60) Brooks (Harris 60) Moore (Cullen 60) Bradshaw Pretty sure you can only make 6 subs in these friendlies, so I'd go for something like that. Would prefer to give Dan James 45 too just to get him that little bit sharper, and would take Lockyer off early given the choice, but limited by subs. We obviously need to give Ward the 90 to build up his sharpness. I think Lockyer should start against Croatia - I don't think he's played for us in about 3-4 years so he needs to be reintegrated. Davies could do with some minutes but should be taken off early to protect him - same for Neco, JJ and Moore. I would also probably start Ampadu too - he definitely doesn't need the minutes, but might be good just to build his and James' understanding that little bit more with a daunting task of facing that Croatian midfield coming up. I think it's a decent idea, but I definitely wouldn't be starting Rodon, Neco, Ampadu or Moore. Ward Poole Lockyer(60 Low) Mepham(60 Davies) Burns JJ(60 Savage) Sheehan Beck(60 Neco) Wilson(60 Harris) Bradshaw Broadhead(60 Cullen) This would be how I would go about it personally |
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Post by iot on Oct 9, 2023 12:05:07 GMT
Rationale for starting Rodon is to build the partnership with Lockyer. Not sure there's any point starting Lockyer (who's had a few fitness issues recently) if he has players either side of him in Poole and Mepham that won't start against Croatia - it defeats the point. Ben Davies and Neco have only played 15 minutes of football between them since the last break, so I think they need 60 in the friendly tbh. Same for Moore. Ampadu I'm more unsure on - on an individual level, I'd definitely want to wrap him up in cotton wool, it's just that he and JJ will be facing Modric-Kovacic-Brozovic on Sunday, so might be good to give them a bit more time together.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 9, 2023 13:31:40 GMT
Rationale for starting Rodon is to build the partnership with Lockyer. Not sure there's any point starting Lockyer (who's had a few fitness issues recently) if he has players either side of him in Poole and Mepham that won't start against Croatia - it defeats the point. Ben Davies and Neco have only played 15 minutes of football between them since the last break, so I think they need 60 in the friendly tbh. Same for Moore. Ampadu I'm more unsure on - on an individual level, I'd definitely want to wrap him up in cotton wool, it's just that he and JJ will be facing Modric-Kovacic-Brozovic on Sunday, so might be good to give them a bit more time together. I just don't think one game of that against minnows is going to make much of a difference, especially considering they will likely train as a partnership over the next few days. Same for Ampadu & JJ I think we're never going to match their midfield, we just need them to be available |
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Post by iot on Oct 9, 2023 14:10:45 GMT
Rationale for starting Rodon is to build the partnership with Lockyer. Not sure there's any point starting Lockyer (who's had a few fitness issues recently) if he has players either side of him in Poole and Mepham that won't start against Croatia - it defeats the point. Ben Davies and Neco have only played 15 minutes of football between them since the last break, so I think they need 60 in the friendly tbh. Same for Moore. Ampadu I'm more unsure on - on an individual level, I'd definitely want to wrap him up in cotton wool, it's just that he and JJ will be facing Modric-Kovacic-Brozovic on Sunday, so might be good to give them a bit more time together. I just don't think one game of that against minnows is going to make much of a difference, especially considering they will likely train as a partnership over the next few days. Same for Ampadu & JJ I think we're never going to match their midfield, we just need them to be available He hasn't played with Rodon in years, so I just felt it might be a useful exercise to re-familiarise over and above what you'd get in training, rather than going into the Croatia game 'cold'. Same for Ampadu and James, who have a grand total of 135 mins playing together and are up against one of the best midfields in the world. Obviously no one's saying that we're going to match them in midfield (that would be daft!), but that's not a reason against making sure they're as prepared and have as good an understanding as possible, which would obviously help! But obviously that has to be balanced against the risk of losing players to injury and the need to avoid fatigue. |
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Post by vvm on Oct 9, 2023 14:26:08 GMT
Does anyone else feel like we could have done with playing a stronger team than Gibraltar? Not to disrespect them but they are currently the 10th worst team in the world.
We've got a number of defenders who would benefit from game time as well as all of our goalkeepers and I can't see any of them really being tested in this game.
Croatia will be a tough test where we'll need to be defensively sound to get anything and I just don't see how this friendly really prepares us for it.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 9, 2023 15:37:03 GMT
Does anyone else feel like we could have done with playing a stronger team than Gibraltar? Not to disrespect them but they are currently the 10th worst team in the world. We've got a number of defenders who would benefit from game time as well as all of our goalkeepers and I can't see any of them really being tested in this game. Croatia will be a tough test where we'll need to be defensively sound to get anything and I just don't see how this friendly really prepares us for it. Against opposition who are going to have the most ball, and who are going to make us do the most running, we want an easy game, and a game to test out fringe players too which we haven't had in a long long time |
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 9, 2023 15:59:09 GMT
Does anyone else feel like we could have done with playing a stronger team than Gibraltar? Not to disrespect them but they are currently the 10th worst team in the world. We've got a number of defenders who would benefit from game time as well as all of our goalkeepers and I can't see any of them really being tested in this game. Croatia will be a tough test where we'll need to be defensively sound to get anything and I just don't see how this friendly really prepares us for it. Same here, yes there’s only so many teams we can play but when you see Scotland playing France next week, it just makes us look small time. |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 9, 2023 18:20:35 GMT
Does anyone else feel like we could have done with playing a stronger team than Gibraltar? Not to disrespect them but they are currently the 10th worst team in the world. We've got a number of defenders who would benefit from game time as well as all of our goalkeepers and I can't see any of them really being tested in this game. Croatia will be a tough test where we'll need to be defensively sound to get anything and I just don't see how this friendly really prepares us for it. A look at the posts when we announced a friendly against the much stronger South Korean should answer your question. To be fair, I’m not sure exactly which opposition we chose for a friendly would be universally accepted and agreed on haha. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 9, 2023 19:41:43 GMT
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 9, 2023 22:14:10 GMT
Let’s be honest, we’ll still be trying to squeeze a last pint in before all trying to go through the turnstiles at the same time. |
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