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Post by manulike on Mar 13, 2024 18:11:34 GMT
I certainly hope that Savage and Colwill have the right bus fare for Newport ;-))
Other than that - in total agreement - Lawrence (could) be a game-changer.
Cullen and Savage, probably not...
More than happy for them all to be in the squad, nonetheless!
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Post by reyrey on Mar 13, 2024 18:22:36 GMT
Lawrence 100% over Cullen
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 13, 2024 18:26:26 GMT
I think people seemed to get what I was saying? I do think it does come down to relationships and him being connected to Robbie. Others have made the point - he is highly unlikely to be in the final squad so why does it matter? I do think it matters however as it sets the tone. I criticised the preparation for the WC and the seeming lack of intensity of training and signalling from management ahead of the WC and look what happened. If I am Sorba (or Lawrence) then I will see some of those players and what they have done this season and feel aggrieved. I'd rather have someone like Sorba around my training camp making things hard for others and trying to prove a point / showing why he should be part of things. That is how you get an edge in your preparation rather than having a load of great banter. Again - this is elite sport. Everything should be based on merit. A player who has done nothing all season and that can't get into a side struggling in League two should not be in a squad - I'd rather have one spot less in my squad and focus on quality. I just don't see it as conducive to a winning culture. Just my opinion! 'I criticised the preparation for the WC and the seeming lack of intensity of training' What are you talking about? What insights do you have into the training? They were only together for a week prep before the WC, do you really think 'a lack of intensity of training' was the issue? Sorba and Lawrence have a decent case to be included, but we have 7 players in their positions in our squad - 4 of them (James, Wilson, Brooks, Johnson) 99.9% would agree deserve to be ahead of them, and another 2 (the Ipswich boys) I'm sure 90% would agree with. So it's a nonsense argument, you don't have a leg to stand on. As for the rest of your comment about signalling and having an elite sports mentality (gosh you really sound like an expert on this), you can make all the spurious points you like about those factors and how they link with our WC performances, but you ignore the key lessons from the Coleman reign i.e. that having a happy camp, a tight squad with good characters is conducive to on-field performances. Believe it or not, but these things matter - players tend to perform better when they're happy and want to turn up (which has, historically, not always been the case with Wales). Phil Parkinson famously has a non-dickhead policy when it comes to his recruitment, recognising the importance of the type of characters brought in alongside their footballing ability. So that's not to say that we bring people in because of their banter, but their character and what they add off the pitch will be and should a factor in squad selection / recruitment decisions in any environment. You seem to be implying that Lawrence isn't a good egg, or at least has some problematic personality issues. You may be right about that, but if that is what you're implying I'd be interested to know how you draw that conclusion. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Mar 13, 2024 18:33:06 GMT
I certainly hope that Savage and Colwill have the right bus fare for Newport ;-)) Other than that - in total agreement - Lawrence (could) be a game-changer. What you saying? That Savage and Colwill would rather take the bus then get in a car that Lawrence is driving? |
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Post by hooky on Mar 13, 2024 18:36:43 GMT
I think people seemed to get what I was saying? I do think it does come down to relationships and him being connected to Robbie. Others have made the point - he is highly unlikely to be in the final squad so why does it matter? I do think it matters however as it sets the tone. I criticised the preparation for the WC and the seeming lack of intensity of training and signalling from management ahead of the WC and look what happened. If I am Sorba (or Lawrence) then I will see some of those players and what they have done this season and feel aggrieved. I'd rather have someone like Sorba around my training camp making things hard for others and trying to prove a point / showing why he should be part of things. That is how you get an edge in your preparation rather than having a load of great banter. Again - this is elite sport. Everything should be based on merit. A player who has done nothing all season and that can't get into a side struggling in League two should not be in a squad - I'd rather have one spot less in my squad and focus on quality. I just don't see it as conducive to a winning culture. Just my opinion! 'I criticised the preparation for the WC and the seeming lack of intensity of training' What are you talking about? What insights do you have into the training? They were only together for a week prep before the WC, do you really think 'a lack of intensity of training' was the issue? Sorba and Lawrence have a decent case to be included, but we have 7 players in their positions in our squad - 4 of them (James, Wilson, Brooks, Johnson) 99.9% would agree deserve to be ahead of them, and another 2 (the Ipswich boys) I'm sure 90% would agree with. So it's a nonsense argument, you don't have a leg to stand on. As for the rest of your comment about signalling and having an elite sports mentality (gosh you really sound like an expert on this), you can make all the spurious points you like about those factors and how they link with our WC performances, but you ignore the key lessons from the Coleman reign i.e. that having a happy camp, a tight squad with good characters is conducive to on-field performances. Believe it or not, but these things matter - players tend to perform better when they're happy and want to turn up (which has, historically, not always been the case with Wales). Phil Parkinson famously has a non-dickhead policy when it comes to his recruitment, recognising the importance of the type of characters brought in alongside their footballing ability. So that's not to say that we bring people in because of their banter, but their character and what they add off the pitch will be and should a factor in squad selection / recruitment decisions in any environment. We just have different views on what you need in terms of preparation and you will find my comments on the preparation for the WC on this forum before the event. I saw Page's interview pre the world cup and what he said concerned me about there being a lack of intensity. I also mentioned what a mistake it would be pick several players in the same team suffering from a chronic lack of gametime at the time. I am no expert, I just pick up on simple straight forward comments and observations and form a view. Preparation tends to be intense in all elite sports and I just hope to goodness that this intensity is being brought to bear into our preparation for these play offs! In terms of squad selection you want as much competition as you can get. Character is something to consider but assessing it can be very subjective. Selection should be based on merit first and characteristics should be secondary unless they are massively positive and much needed (i.e. leadership where it is lacking within the squad, etc) - I would rather have someone who consistently does their job very well such as getting into double digits in assists than someone who is a great, positive character but is not contributing much on the pitch |
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Post by hooky on Mar 13, 2024 18:38:14 GMT
Lawrence 100% over Cullen I did not even notice Cullen was in the squad. Lawrence is way ahead of Cullen as a game changer and can reach a level Cullen never will. |
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 13, 2024 18:49:50 GMT
It’s well worth reading through the Tom Lawrence thread from when he was in the squad, he was the fall guy back in those days.
Now he’s not selected his stock is sky high, haha.
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 13, 2024 18:51:02 GMT
Matondo over Lawrence is the one you should be focussing on anyway since they play for the same team. I don’t know why they have gone that way but I’ll give Page and his staff the benefit of the doubt. They know more about the players than we ever will.
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Mar 13, 2024 18:55:11 GMT
Squad is OK by and large, but Sorba and Lawrence on current form should definitely have been in ahead of Savage and Cullen. Can't accept that either of them would be disruptive or bad for camp morale!
I doubt that Rambo will be match-fit enough (even for a cameo) but let's see what his "assessment" reveals.
Regarding the goalkeeping quandary referred to earlier in this thread, may I raise the old chestnut of St Asaph-born Chris Maxwell (very experienced GK) - who at least has appeared a fair few times for Huddersfield in the Championship this season.
Even though he's been on his first team's bench in more recent times, he's got closer to the pitch - and the goalposts - in club terms than WH, DW, AD and TK put together.
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Post by CrackityJones on Mar 13, 2024 19:06:51 GMT
Sorba and Lawrence don’t play the same position as Savage as many have pointed out.
The Maxwell situation has puzzled me for a while granted, seems to be over looked all his career.
Saying that, there’s a lot of unnecessary nitpicking going on as usual. As someone already said, it’s our strongest squad in a while. Roll on next week
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 13, 2024 19:07:04 GMT
Lawrence's drink driving conviction isn't a good look, so who knows how he comes across in camp. But if a player does have dickhead tendencies then that would be sufficient reason not to select them.
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Post by manulike on Mar 13, 2024 19:13:51 GMT
IIRC Joe Low also still qualifies for the current U21 campaign - being 2002 born.
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Mar 13, 2024 19:56:13 GMT
Fingers crossed no-one selected (or not selected) picks up any injuries during the remaining games, pre-camp.
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Post by iot on Mar 13, 2024 20:37:01 GMT
'I criticised the preparation for the WC and the seeming lack of intensity of training' What are you talking about? What insights do you have into the training? They were only together for a week prep before the WC, do you really think 'a lack of intensity of training' was the issue? Sorba and Lawrence have a decent case to be included, but we have 7 players in their positions in our squad - 4 of them (James, Wilson, Brooks, Johnson) 99.9% would agree deserve to be ahead of them, and another 2 (the Ipswich boys) I'm sure 90% would agree with. So it's a nonsense argument, you don't have a leg to stand on. As for the rest of your comment about signalling and having an elite sports mentality (gosh you really sound like an expert on this), you can make all the spurious points you like about those factors and how they link with our WC performances, but you ignore the key lessons from the Coleman reign i.e. that having a happy camp, a tight squad with good characters is conducive to on-field performances. Believe it or not, but these things matter - players tend to perform better when they're happy and want to turn up (which has, historically, not always been the case with Wales). Phil Parkinson famously has a non-dickhead policy when it comes to his recruitment, recognising the importance of the type of characters brought in alongside their footballing ability. So that's not to say that we bring people in because of their banter, but their character and what they add off the pitch will be and should a factor in squad selection / recruitment decisions in any environment. You seem to be implying that Lawrence isn't a good egg, or at least has some problematic personality issues. You may be right about that, but if that is what you're implying I'd be interested to know how you draw that conclusion. No not at all, it was more a response to hooky’s comment that Page is selecting people based on their banter level, an annoying reference to how we’ve sometimes picked certain fringe players (Owain Fon, Gunter and so on) partly because of what they offered off the pitch. Does my head in, because there’s a good reason for it and it’s only ever done on marginal calls for fringe players, so it doesn’t make any direct difference on the pitch, helps us off it, and yet it doesn’t stop the constant moaning all over social media and on here about such decisions. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 13, 2024 20:45:24 GMT
Glad you've clarified that. I thought your comment about Phil Parkinson's non dickhead policy might be significant, but I can see that you were more interested in highlighting the positive aspects of player's characters on squad cohesion.
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Post by manulike on Mar 13, 2024 21:15:05 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 13, 2024 21:16:24 GMT
and why on earth Savage? I wonder - unfortunately we know why! FFS - big match then the likes of Lawrence over him any day! Can we have a competent manager in the next few year please? Why not Savage? Getting regular game time in League One actually puts him near the top of the list for available CMs at the moment |
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 13, 2024 21:18:25 GMT
Us welsh fans are a funny lot. Two massive games, both at home, for a place at our third Euros in a row, and all we can talk about is which fringe players we should choose in the 28 man squad, most of who won’t make the 23.
Also, huge social media attention on the fact that 4 keepers are selected. If we select three keepers ina 23 man squad, it’s perfectly reasonable to select four for a 28 man squad, especially in our case as none of them are playing regularly.
It was the same for the World Cup, first finals since 1958 but social media was full of outrage that Oli Cooper was left out, based solely on a late 10 game run in the Swansea team.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 13, 2024 21:21:39 GMT
Sorba 7th highest in Championship in terms of assists with 9, while he also has 4 goals If we are two goals behind against Finland - he could be an option. Savage should not be anywhere near the squad - he is still not in Reading's starting 11 for goodness sake - that's the third tier. Sure these are different positions but I bench is to give you options and under no circumstance would I want to see Savage anywhere near a playoff game whilst the likes of Sorba (or Lawrence) have the ability to make a difference You haven't looked into Savage's game time have you? You're just guessing that he hasn't been playing. Good thing you're not picking the squad! Last 10 games; 16 mins 87 mins 88 mins 85 mins 15 mins 45 mins 64 mins 0 mins 45 mins 90 mins Name me a Welsh midfielder who is eligible for selection who has been playing regular minutes at CM at a higher level? I'll wait |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 13, 2024 21:25:19 GMT
I understand the sentiment, but what are the alternatives realistically? The other Connor Roberts, who plays for TNS? And I'm not being facetious, because the options after the 4 selected are very weak. Owen Evans getting regular game time in League Two. Should be in ahead of King imo |
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Post by iot on Mar 13, 2024 21:41:08 GMT
'I criticised the preparation for the WC and the seeming lack of intensity of training' What are you talking about? What insights do you have into the training? They were only together for a week prep before the WC, do you really think 'a lack of intensity of training' was the issue? Sorba and Lawrence have a decent case to be included, but we have 7 players in their positions in our squad - 4 of them (James, Wilson, Brooks, Johnson) 99.9% would agree deserve to be ahead of them, and another 2 (the Ipswich boys) I'm sure 90% would agree with. So it's a nonsense argument, you don't have a leg to stand on. As for the rest of your comment about signalling and having an elite sports mentality (gosh you really sound like an expert on this), you can make all the spurious points you like about those factors and how they link with our WC performances, but you ignore the key lessons from the Coleman reign i.e. that having a happy camp, a tight squad with good characters is conducive to on-field performances. Believe it or not, but these things matter - players tend to perform better when they're happy and want to turn up (which has, historically, not always been the case with Wales). Phil Parkinson famously has a non-dickhead policy when it comes to his recruitment, recognising the importance of the type of characters brought in alongside their footballing ability. So that's not to say that we bring people in because of their banter, but their character and what they add off the pitch will be and should a factor in squad selection / recruitment decisions in any environment. We just have different views on what you need in terms of preparation and you will find my comments on the preparation for the WC on this forum before the event. I saw Page's interview pre the world cup and what he said concerned me about there being a lack of intensity. I also mentioned what a mistake it would be pick several players in the same team suffering from a chronic lack of gametime at the time. I am no expert, I just pick up on simple straight forward comments and observations and form a view. Preparation tends to be intense in all elite sports and I just hope to goodness that this intensity is being brought to bear into our preparation for these play offs! In terms of squad selection you want as much competition as you can get. Character is something to consider but assessing it can be very subjective. Selection should be based on merit first and characteristics should be secondary unless they are massively positive and much needed (i.e. leadership where it is lacking within the squad, etc) - I would rather have someone who consistently does their job very well such as getting into double digits in assists than someone who is a great, positive character but is not contributing much on the pitch I suspect you read far too much into some of the comments made in those interviews. The World Cup was fairly unique in that it took place part-way through the season, there was a week of prep, and then we were flying to the middle east to play in the blistering heat with little time for the players to acclimatize. In that context, having a lower workload week of prep makes sense - I'm pretty sure Page would have been guided by the sports scientists on that, and other nations would have done something similar. I think most people are agreed on why the World Cup was so catastrophic - it wasn't because we didn't expend enough energy in the week of training leading up to the tournament, or because we selected Gunter and Joniesta instead of Wes Burns and Tom Lawrence (or whoever people were arguing about at the time). It was because we were carrying one or two too many (Bale most notably), and Page was tactically very naive with a lack of presence in midfield and the defence badly exposed. |
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Post by iot on Mar 13, 2024 21:47:27 GMT
I understand the sentiment, but what are the alternatives realistically? The other Connor Roberts, who plays for TNS? And I'm not being facetious, because the options after the 4 selected are very weak. Owen Evans getting regular game time in League Two. Should be in ahead of King imo He hasn't played since being sent off against Newport a month ago. He's looked every bit the League 2 goalkeeper when I've seen him unfortunately. Wouldn't mind seeing him ahead of King, but it's much of a muchness really. He's 27, which is a decent age for a keeper, but unlikely to improve further. |
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Post by welshrover on Mar 14, 2024 0:28:50 GMT
Owen Evans getting regular game time in League Two. Should be in ahead of King imo He hasn't played since being sent off against Newport a month ago. He's looked every bit the League 2 goalkeeper when I've seen him unfortunately. Wouldn't mind seeing him ahead of King, but it's much of a muchness really. He's 27, which is a decent age for a keeper, but unlikely to improve further. On the goalkeeper is the boy Barden still with Norwich or has he quit football? |
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Post by zserty on Mar 14, 2024 7:23:27 GMT
I cannot believe that almost every Welsh keeper has decided to benchwarm before we possibly go to a major tournament.
Apart from Wayne who is winding down the rest of them are a bit of a disgrace. Just a shame we are forced to take them due to lack of any other option.
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Post by dragonsoccer on Mar 14, 2024 7:55:26 GMT
He hasn't played since being sent off against Newport a month ago. He's looked every bit the League 2 goalkeeper when I've seen him unfortunately. Wouldn't mind seeing him ahead of King, but it's much of a muchness really. He's 27, which is a decent age for a keeper, but unlikely to improve further. On the goalkeeper is the boy Barden still with Norwich or has he quit football? Dan has played several Norwich U21 games in the last month or so all covered daily on walesplayers.uk/ when Wales players are in club action |
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Post by pclaude on Mar 14, 2024 9:26:54 GMT
I cannot believe that almost every Welsh keeper has decided to benchwarm before we possibly go to a major tournament. Apart from Wayne who is winding down the rest of them are a bit of a disgrace. Just a shame we are forced to take them due to lack of any other option. Not being funny, but Ward is getting £40k week. No-one in their right mind would bin that off. |
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Post by iot on Mar 14, 2024 9:41:16 GMT
I cannot believe that almost every Welsh keeper has decided to benchwarm before we possibly go to a major tournament. Apart from Wayne who is winding down the rest of them are a bit of a disgrace. Just a shame we are forced to take them due to lack of any other option. Not being funny, but Ward is getting £40k week. No-one in their right mind would bin that off. Yeah exactly. We can romanticise all we want about how football and playing for your country should come first, and what we’d do in that situation, but he’s on ca. £2m a year with one year left (I believe) on his contract. He knows, in all likelihood, he won’t be able to earn half that amount for his next contract. I suspect 99% of people would do the same in his situation, so as unpopular as it is to say, I think it’s unfair to expect him to give that up. It’s shit for us, but I can understand it |
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Post by zserty on Mar 14, 2024 11:15:17 GMT
I cannot believe that almost every Welsh keeper has decided to benchwarm before we possibly go to a major tournament. Apart from Wayne who is winding down the rest of them are a bit of a disgrace. Just a shame we are forced to take them due to lack of any other option. Not being funny, but Ward is getting £40k week. No-one in their right mind would bin that off. Im not suggesting he bin that off, but he isnt even in the squad. He is what 3rd or 4th choice keeper? Surely if he had wanted there was a loan move open, Leicester save a few £on wages and he gets to play while still on big bucks. |
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Post by vvm on Mar 14, 2024 11:27:39 GMT
He could have pushed for a loan move. I agree with what you're saying, wouldn't expect anyone to turn their back on that sort of money but from the outside looking in it just comes across as he arrogantly assumes his Wales spot is secure so doesn't need to keep himself sharp. The annoying thing is, he's probably right too.
I don't know what the solution is and I understand not making drastic changes before the playoffs but I do think we need a rethink towards our goalkeeper situation in the future.
Whoever the most promising up and coming keeper who is actually playing. Get them called up.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 14, 2024 11:39:20 GMT
Owen Evans getting regular game time in League Two. Should be in ahead of King imo He hasn't played since being sent off against Newport a month ago. He's looked every bit the League 2 goalkeeper when I've seen him unfortunately. Wouldn't mind seeing him ahead of King, but it's much of a muchness really. He's 27, which is a decent age for a keeper, but unlikely to improve further. It's not a big gripe of mine, which is why I didn't mention it initially, very happy with the squad. But if we're looking at other keepers he is the next one we should look at because he has actually played a fair amount of football this season in the football league - that makes him one of a kind. But as you said much of a muchness |
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