|
|
Post by melynwy on Nov 20, 2024 17:50:36 GMT
As I've said before, personally I feel Darlow is a cut above Ward in all departments, including distribution. The stats may suggest one thing, but watching the games suggest otherwise to me. Don't forget that it was Darlow who had to play on an unplayable pitch in Montenegro too, where accurate distribution was bound to be low. Ward's long balls yesterday were pretty much 50/50 balls - I think the statistic is more of a reflection that our attackers did well with them rather than Ward being accurate. Also - in the first few games at least - it was clear that Darlow was more willing (or was allowed to) to go long/clear when he felt it was needed, whereas Ward steadfastly stuck to playing short balls, especially to a central defender/midfielder dropping deep, and always waited until he himself was pressed before making the pass. It seemed to me that it was a big part of the gameplan that was eventually eased off towards the end of the campaign (for example, I'll bet Ward's accuracy stats last night were lower than the opening game v Turkey.) Credit to Ward for doing it, but Darlow seems more comfortable on the ball when watching the game. His first touch seems much better than Ward too. You've just lost your bet. 83% 45% accuracy and long ball accuracy (11 long balls) against Turkiye compared to 81% 63% (19 long balls) last night. Strange how people see things differently because I think Ward looks a lot more assured on the ball. I suppose the difference is that I have the stats to back up my subjective opinion. Haha, fair enough! The stats still don't convince me though. I think Ward is very uncomfortable with his feet, and is doing a decent job of trying to do the job required of him. I thought Hennessey was marginally better than him regarding distribution too. I've very rarely seen him play an intentionally meaningful, penetrating long ball, and his short passes are nothing to write home about. Yes they find the intended target, but they're not well balanced passes to the preferred foot. It's his first touch that worries me most. To my eye his first touch takes a very long time, rarely gets the ball to a good place, and he has a strange tendency to roll the ball with the outside of his boot (and sometimes his studs!) that's just an accident waiting to happen. Things seem to happen smoother, quicker (when needed) and more comfortably with Darlow. Still, can't argue with the stats really, but I still feel there are other factors at play here. Out of interest, what's the definition boundary between a short pass and a long one? Regardless of the stats, I still don't think Ward qualifies as being "good with his feet" - at least nowhere near enough for that to be a distinct advantage of his when considering the starting XI. |
|
|
|
Post by dai on Nov 20, 2024 18:46:06 GMT
As I've said before, personally I feel Darlow is a cut above Ward in all departments, including distribution. The stats may suggest one thing, but watching the games suggest otherwise to me. Don't forget that it was Darlow who had to play on an unplayable pitch in Montenegro too, where accurate distribution was bound to be low. Ward's long balls yesterday were pretty much 50/50 balls - I think the statistic is more of a reflection that our attackers did well with them rather than Ward being accurate. Also - in the first few games at least - it was clear that Darlow was more willing (or was allowed to) to go long/clear when he felt it was needed, whereas Ward steadfastly stuck to playing short balls, especially to a central defender/midfielder dropping deep, and always waited until he himself was pressed before making the pass. It seemed to me that it was a big part of the gameplan that was eventually eased off towards the end of the campaign (for example, I'll bet Ward's accuracy stats last night were lower than the opening game v Turkey.) Credit to Ward for doing it, but Darlow seems more comfortable on the ball when watching the game. His first touch seems much better than Ward too. You've just lost your bet. 83% 45% accuracy and long ball accuracy (11 long balls) against Turkiye compared to 81% 63% (19 long balls) last night. Strange how people see things differently because I think Ward looks a lot more assured on the ball. I suppose the difference is that I have the stats to back up my subjective opinion. See, I just don't see this at all. From me, he brings a lot of nervous energy on to the pitch. I do think he has good distribution, however I dont see him as a calm and commanding figure in goal. Darlow in particular has looked a lot more assured and decisive. |
|
|
|
Post by iot on Nov 20, 2024 22:01:11 GMT
The game could have gone a very different way yesterday. I remember when we were 1-0 down, fans were getting very edgy and I felt we were one cockup away from things getting toxic like it was in the Armenia home game. I remember the groans from the crowd when we were moving the ball about at 1-0 down, yet the players managed to tune it out and it resulted in an excellent move with James getting in behind and winning a corner on that particular occasion. Our first goal also came about after patient build up play, yet as soon as we were 1-0 down there were the usual shouts of ‘forward’ and groans - as if people wanted us to go direct and forget our gameplan instantly.
Bellamy alluded to this in his post match interview. He spoke about how we passed a test, that we didn’t get influenced by the crowd and stuck to our game. It all worked out well in the end, but I think us fans (as a collective) really need a bit of a mindset shift and understand what we’re trying to do, otherwise things could get more toxic next time and playing at home becomes a disadvantage. It’s happened a lot at Cardiff in recent years.
|
|
|
|
Post by hal on Nov 20, 2024 23:43:45 GMT
I was sitting there at 1-0 down and thinking about the following, which after the full time result just shows how good a job Bellamy is doing. Go through the starting X1 and give an honest opinion on the players-
Ward- Decent international player
Neco- Decent international player
Cabango- Fringe player for an international team, should not be in starting X1
Rodon- God- Genuinely he is so good.
Davies- As above
Sheehan- Not good enough for international football
Wilson- our best player IMO
Brennan- Good international player (however his performances for Wales have been undermining)
James- Fringe player for an international team
Cullen- Not an international player
Harris- Not an international player
Now I am taking nothing away from the team and their performance, because they clearly all care and give 100% performance. But look at that team, you cannot tell me many would get in to other nationals of similar ranking as us. And when you add the only players missing was Ampadu and Ramsey, maybe Moore? Bellamy is doing an amazing job, I hope it continues.
|
|
|
|
Post by redwall on Nov 21, 2024 7:14:51 GMT
I was thinking about that recently. It's undeniable we have fewer top flight players than ever before but it's worth remembering the Championship is the strongest it's ever been. Back in the 90s the PL was probably the 3rd-4th strongest league in Europe and the "First Division" probably 15th. Now the Championship is definitely a top 10 league in Europe, if not the world (or almost).
So while we have lots of Championship players they're of a far better level than the likes of Melville, Symons, Barnard, Edwards etc were. We know the likes of Rodon, Ampadu and James are good players, but I think it probably means Cullen, Colwill, Sorba et al are of a better standard relative to Europe than we often think.
Teams around our level like Poland, Ukraine, Denmark, Scotland, Switzerland, Austria often have a lot of players in their domestic leagues and they're of a worse level than the championship.
In my opinion our issue isn't the handful of players at the bottom of the championship/top of league 1. They can and do step up, at least to what we can reasonably expect. Our issue is the present lack of match winning superstars, like Bale and Ramsey. Fingers crossed we get some with the likes of Biancheri, Koumas, Allen and Crewe.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2024 9:05:13 GMT
I was thinking about that recently. It's undeniable we have fewer top flight players than ever before but it's worth remembering the Championship is the strongest it's ever been. Back in the 90s the PL was probably the 3rd-4th strongest league in Europe and the "First Division" probably 15th. Now the Championship is definitely a top 10 league in Europe, if not the world (or almost). So while we have lots of Championship players they're of a far better level than the likes of Melville, Symons, Barnard, Edwards etc were. We know the likes of Rodon, Ampadu and James are good players, but I think it probably means Cullen, Colwill, Sorba et al are of a better standard relative to Europe than we often think. Teams around our level like Poland, Ukraine, Denmark, Scotland, Switzerland, Austria often have a lot of players in their domestic leagues and they're of a worse level than the championship. In my opinion our issue isn't the handful of players at the bottom of the championship/top of league 1. They can and do step up, at least to what we can reasonably expect. Our issue is the present lack of match winning superstars, like Bale and Ramsey. Fingers crossed we get some with the likes of Biancheri, Koumas, Allen and Crewe. I think that's a balanced perspective. We have a decent squad but little star quality. We're reliant on Bellamy to add a bit of stardust. |
|
|
|
Post by melynwy on Nov 21, 2024 9:35:56 GMT
I was thinking about that recently. It's undeniable we have fewer top flight players than ever before but it's worth remembering the Championship is the strongest it's ever been. Back in the 90s the PL was probably the 3rd-4th strongest league in Europe and the "First Division" probably 15th. Now the Championship is definitely a top 10 league in Europe, if not the world (or almost). So while we have lots of Championship players they're of a far better level than the likes of Melville, Symons, Barnard, Edwards etc were. We know the likes of Rodon, Ampadu and James are good players, but I think it probably means Cullen, Colwill, Sorba et al are of a better standard relative to Europe than we often think. Teams around our level like Poland, Ukraine, Denmark, Scotland, Switzerland, Austria often have a lot of players in their domestic leagues and they're of a worse level than the championship. In my opinion our issue isn't the handful of players at the bottom of the championship/top of league 1. They can and do step up, at least to what we can reasonably expect. Our issue is the present lack of match winning superstars, like Bale and Ramsey. Fingers crossed we get some with the likes of Biancheri, Koumas, Allen and Crewe. Absolutely spot on in my mind. The Championship is a great league, and a team of Championship players could easily compete in the World Cup. As I've said before, there's this myth of "international quality" as though it is a level far beyond club level. It's not. In our case, it would only take a couple of very possible scenarios to happen (like Leeds getting promoted) to transform the number of Premiership players in the squad, yet they would still be the same players they are today. Our main issue is that too many of our best players on the bench for their clubs. I'd much rather see them play consistency at a level below. |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2024 10:31:17 GMT
It's also worth bearing in mind how much the standard of player in the Premier League has improved. A player of the calibre of Harry Wilson would probably be a regular in a top 6 side a decade ago. Joe Allen, in his prime, would probably be a bench player for a Bournemouth nowadays. The PL really is the creme de la creme. So, it's quite an achievement to even be a squad player at an established PL club.
The biggest change has been in the athleticism of players. This is now a given. Only exceptionally gifted players are exempt from being supreme athletes first and foremost. I suspect that the difficulty of the likes of Brooks and perhaps Wilson too is down to the fact that they are decent not supreme athletes.
|
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 21, 2024 10:33:39 GMT
It's also worth bearing in mind how much the standard of player in the Premier League has improved. I do not agree with this. Take a look at mid 00s clips of the PL!!! |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2024 10:36:33 GMT
It's also worth bearing in mind how much the standard of player in the Premier League has improved. I do not agree with this. Take a look at mid 00s clips of the PL!!! I don't know what point you're making, you'll need to elaborate. Technical skill hasn't changed that much, but strong physical attributes are now pretty much universal in my opinion, whereas they wouldn't have been to the same extent a decade ago. |
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 21, 2024 10:43:25 GMT
I do not agree with this. Take a look at mid 00s clips of the PL!!! I don't know what point you're making, you'll need to elaborate. Technical skill hasn't changed that much, but strong physical attributes are now pretty much universal in my opinion, whereas they wouldn't have been to the same extent a decade ago. The game has changed for sure. Questionable if it is better and if the players are any better though. |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2024 11:02:02 GMT
Well the PL is pre-eminent in a way it wasn't 10 years ago, although that could change of course. But as things stand even make up the numbers PL clubs are in a position to recruit top talent. The fact that Neco and Wilson are bench players says it all really. A player with the ability to deliver the two sensational assists that Neco delivered away to Iceland would have been a regular starter for a club like Swansea 10 years ago. Does anyone think that Neil Taylor, a regular for mid-table Swansea was anywhere near the ability of Neco?
|
|
|
|
Post by morg on Nov 21, 2024 11:24:19 GMT
Makes you wonder how many of our 2016 team would be PL starters now ? (Based on their prime playing levels ).
Maybe Ben, Ash, Joe A, Aaron and Gareth ?
Rest of team being Wayne,Gunts,Chester,Neil, Joe L and Robson-Kanu/Vokes.
|
|
|
|
Post by gimli on Nov 21, 2024 11:33:32 GMT
I don't think it's that the best PL players today are better than the best 20-30 years ago, it's just that there's so many good players now compared to the 90s. The worst PL players today are much better than the worst PL players 30 years ago.
The league is so global now, with so many players from abroad playing in the league. In the 90s a PL team would have two or three international players at most, with the rest of the squad made up of British and Irish players. These days, the vast majority of most PL squads are Europeans and South Americans, with only a handful of British and Irish players in there. The pool of players is just so much bigger now so naturally some very talented players are being pushed further down the pyramid. Players like Wilson are clearly good enough to play regularly in the PL, but there's so much competition for places in the team with others of a similar ability to him that he's often relegated to the bench. Players like Simon Davies 20 years ago who played over 300 games in the PL for some decent teams would likely have struggled to play regularly these days and would probably have ended up a Championship player.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2024 12:01:52 GMT
I don't think it's that the best PL players today are better than the best 20-30 years ago, it's just that there's so many good players now compared to the 90s. The worst PL players today are much better than the worst PL players 30 years ago. The league is so global now, with so many players from abroad playing in the league. In the 90s a PL team would have two or three international players at most, with the rest of the squad made up of British and Irish players. These days, the vast majority of most PL squads are Europeans and South Americans, with only a handful of British and Irish players in there. The pool of players is just so much bigger now so naturally some very talented players are being pushed further down the pyramid. Players like Wilson are clearly good enough to play regularly in the PL, but there's so much competition for places in the team with others of a similar ability to him that he's often relegated to the bench. Players like Simon Davies 20 years ago who played over 300 games in the PL for some decent teams would likely have struggled to play regularly these days and would probably have ended up a Championship player. Excellent post. |
|
|
|
Post by jimexotic on Nov 22, 2024 14:56:00 GMT
There was a real Armenia at home feel to the first 15 minutes or so of this, I felt like they were getting through us and causing us problems all too easily while still feeling like they were there for the taking. I thought Iceland started with a lot of intensity that they wouldn't be able to sustain and I think that proved to be the case to a degree, by the end we'd picked them off but I still think we gave too much away.
We're very much a work in progress, there's no doubt about that, it's encouraging that we can experiment with line ups and still finish top of the group, unbeaten and keep 3 clean sheets.
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 22, 2024 16:27:24 GMT
There was a real Armenia at home feel to the first 15 minutes or so of this, I felt like they were getting through us and causing us problems all too easily while still feeling like they were there for the taking. I thought Iceland started with a lot of intensity that they wouldn't be able to sustain and I think that proved to be the case to a degree, by the end we'd picked them off but I still think we gave too much away. We're very much a work in progress, there's no doubt about that, it's encouraging that we can experiment with line ups and still finish top of the group, unbeaten and keep 3 clean sheets. We also adapted, we started keeping the ball better and making them run. Eventually we tired them out I believe |
|
|
|
Post by reyrey on Nov 23, 2024 14:12:08 GMT
Not sure of the reasons they pulled out of the squad but Harris started for Birmingham today and Brooks on the bench for Bournemouth.
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonsoccer on Nov 23, 2024 14:13:46 GMT
both reported as illness
|
|
|
|
Post by reyrey on Nov 23, 2024 14:18:32 GMT
I’m slightly worried about Harris.
Never given game time when he was in squads under page and has pulled out of a few squads since.
Hopefully he is committed and goes on to be top player
|
|
|
|
Post by rushy on Nov 23, 2024 17:24:51 GMT
Apart from playing on bowling greens, being predominantly one footed, incapable of taking penalties or corners from the correct spot, fake serious injury with a broken eyelash, unable to defend without grabbing opponents shirts, don't have to play over 60 full games a season , and can't take a bollokin, oh and steal a living earning millions despite getting virtually no game time ...what has the modern footballer brought to the game ?😊
|
|
