|
|
Post by flynnfan on Feb 16, 2011 19:27:36 GMT
Something you have to bear in mind quetzal is that tournaments for the U17s/19s/21s only feature 8 teams, one of which is the host. Only 7 teams actually qualify for the finals so it's incredibly hard. The rules are crazy really- you can top your group (as we did ahead of France) and the team finishing in second behind you can get a kinder play off draw and qualify whilst you stay at home.
Please explain why you think this is really a issue when the U21s have just won 6 home games in a row?! Surely this is barking up completely the wrong tree?
|
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Feb 16, 2011 20:04:57 GMT
Something you have to bear in mind quetzal is that tournaments for the U17s/19s/21s only feature 8 teams, one of which is the host. Only 7 teams actually qualify for the finals so it's incredibly hard. The rules are crazy really- you can top your group (as we did ahead of France) and the team finishing in second behind you can get a kinder play off draw and qualify whilst you stay at home. Please explain why you think this is really a issue when the U21s have just won 6 home games in a row?! Surely this is barking up completely the wrong tree? Look I'm a massive Flynn Fan and i love the job he is doing but we need to give other Welsh coaches a chance. Flynn carries on with the U21's but the U17 and U19's get the most promising Welsh coaches who have the UEFA 'A' badge. There might be a Brian Kerr out there somewhere. Osian Roberts did just as good as Flynn with the U16's in the Victory Shield this year. SPREAD EXPERIENCE in the System of Welsh Coaching. Relying on One man will comeback and bite us on the backsides. |
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Feb 17, 2011 14:06:11 GMT
Quetzal - either we'll be f***ed if Flynn leaves (per your opening post), or he aint' all that (as per your other post). Which is it?
The reality is our eggs aren't in one basket coach-wise, because different coaches assist Flynn at the different levels. If he goes, he goes; it doesn't matter a massive amount. Particularly because these coaches will have experience of operating within an excellent structure - which is what must remain
|
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Feb 17, 2011 15:31:32 GMT
I don't think anyone agrees with me on this one but thanks for the debate. We all want the best for Welsh Football. Cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Feb 17, 2011 17:52:27 GMT
Uefa don't have rankings for U21 teams but if they did we'd surely be well inside the top 20 at the moment. Where is our senior team ranked? About 45th isn't it? So that alone should show you that we're punching above our weight in underage football. It's obvious to me that our problems are at senior level. Bellamy comments were excuse making, looking to deflect blame. He should take more responsibility himself. He was rubbish in Montenegro and couldn't be bothered to turn up for the next two. I'm expecting a big performance from Bellamy vs England. He owes us one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 19:08:07 GMT
I don't think anyone agrees with me on this one but thanks for the debate. We all want the best for Welsh Football. Cheers I agree in principle, I mean you are right- Flynn has got us into qualifying position yet not actually done the final 10% So does that mean we should just accept that we never qualify and act on sentiment as Flynn was the one who got us here, or now we have a team to be respected look for the man to get us over that final hurdle? In all fairness it would be harsh to pre-empt Flynn leaving and re-organise everything to protect against what may never happen. You would like to think that Flynn would give us enough notice of his intention to leave that we could then look for replacements. At the moment I think the evidence shows that Flynn being in sole charge of all age groups is working. Hes getting results without a world class set of youngsters and bar actually getting us to a finals you cant ask much more so good on him and carry on I say |
|
|
|
Post by georgetm1 on Feb 22, 2011 13:19:02 GMT
As the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
|
|
|
|
Post by idiot on Feb 22, 2011 14:44:56 GMT
i think this thread says it all about the welsh phsyche,flynn's worked miracles with the youth set up yet people arent happy with the way it works
uuuh
|
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Feb 22, 2011 21:57:22 GMT
i think this thread says it all about the welsh phsyche,flynn's worked miracles with the youth set up yet people arent happy with the way it works uuuh He hasn't worked miracles. He's done a very good job and arguably maximised the resources he had within a simple but effective structure. |
|
|
|
Post by idiot on Feb 23, 2011 8:24:59 GMT
the structure's important but i doubt many would have managed to do as well as flynn has,consider where we were before he started id say he has worked miracles,not many would have gone the extra mile for a youth set up like he has
|
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Feb 24, 2011 12:17:55 GMT
consider where we were before he started Precisely! But it's because the structure we had before was all wrong. Flynn might have made a better fist of the U21s if he had been in charge under Sparky, but he wouldn't have had anywhere near the level success because of that structure. And don't forget Flynn was working with U21s when we was Wrexham manager and didn't have much success. Flynn is a factor, no doubt, but unifying the age-grade set-up under the auspices of one man is the key and was visionary by Toshack |
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Feb 25, 2011 12:21:34 GMT
I don't think Flynn's a miracle worker- he's just a bloody good football manger doing a brilliant job within an excellent structure.
I asked before but no-one seems to know. Is the U21's 6 match winning run at home a Welsh international record?
|
|
|
|
Post by bellamyforever on Mar 4, 2011 14:29:21 GMT
i agree flynn has worked wonders with the under 21's they should give him more money.
|
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Nov 14, 2011 20:49:49 GMT
I've said it before and i'll say it again why is B Flynn incharge of the U17 & U19's. O Roberts seems to have done a great job in Coaching Coaches to 5 star Uefa criteria Coaching badges. Flynn should just be doing the u21's which he's done an AMAZING job but why is he hogging these jobs that could be a springboard for our best young Coaches?  In 5 years or more we've come a long way but we haven't qualfied for nothing under Flynn at any age group but like i said above if you think where we were with the u21's a while back(worst football team in the world) then he deserves credit but to deny our top of the class Welsh Coaches who have come through the FAW Elite Coaching courses a crack is insane. Or lets look for a Foreign Youth Coach who consistently gets his Country into these Euro finals at u17 and 19's level. We're kind of accepting failure here at all the levels |
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Nov 14, 2011 22:11:01 GMT
Who's Fynn?
|
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Nov 14, 2011 22:12:23 GMT
oops tired eyes but you know what i mean  |
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Nov 14, 2011 22:18:34 GMT
Because it's an excellent system for the development of young players?  |
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Nov 14, 2011 22:46:44 GMT
Who are the worldclass players that have come through??? Lets be honest Welsh Football will always have a few Worldclass Players? Charles,Allchurch/Rush, Hughes, Southall/Bale, Ramsey This is just another Welsh Football cycle. How much credit should we give to Flynn for Bale and Ramsey??? They would have still been great players. Give the new generation of coaches a go.
|
|
|
|
Post by blogdroed on Nov 14, 2011 22:50:58 GMT
He's not "hogging jobs" it's called continuity - Jarmo Matikainen is manager of all the womens' sides from u17 right through to the senior side ...
|
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Nov 14, 2011 22:58:29 GMT
He's not "hogging jobs" it's called continuity - Jarmo Matikainen is manager of all the womens' sides from u17 right through to the senior side ... Jarmo is new, Flynn as been doing this for 5 or 6 years. Lets keep him as the U21coach but lets see if this UEFA Pro Liscense course that we're investing millions can throw somebody out who can take us to a major finals in the U17 & U19 groups |
|
|
|
Post by stu on Nov 15, 2011 8:42:11 GMT
He's been doing it since Toshack got him in especially to oversee the entire youth system because the youth system was really poor before then. All youth systems had a different person in charge and there was no communication between any of them.
Over the next few years we are going to see the products of this new youth system, and being quite honest it's going to be far harder for some of these kids to win caps with our current squad than it has been for decades.
|
|
|
|
Post by blogdroed on Nov 15, 2011 9:46:08 GMT
... but lets see if this UEFA Pro Liscense course that we're investing millions can throw somebody out who can take us to a major finals in the U17 & U19 groups Investing milions?? |
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Nov 15, 2011 13:49:46 GMT
Excellent post from jackanapes. Even if Flynn leaves it's important- VITAL in fact- that we keep the same system in place.
|
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Nov 15, 2011 17:50:03 GMT
You'd like to think that Wales as an association could get every team playing the same style with different coaches but maybe its beyond the celtic mindset. Doomed to failure!!!! Oh well if you haven't qualified for anything at any level since 1958 then what can we expect.
|
|
|
|
Post by stu on Nov 15, 2011 18:13:50 GMT
If the same qualifying criteria was used at U21 level as they do at senior then we'd qualify more often. There's only eight teams in the finals at U21, one of those is the host.
That means we'd have to be one of the best 7 teams in Europe.
I think you want the moon on a stick ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Nov 15, 2011 19:04:39 GMT
As noted above, the system was a shambles before Flynn was appointed to oversee the whole thing. With one person in charge the focus can be on the long term development of a squad of players, with continuity between age groups. Flynn can identify players and focus on getting them to play good passing and attacking football at a good tempo. The continuity in playing system and coaching style allows for greater progression of players firstly to the under 21s and then to the seniors. With different coaches at each age level, each employing different styles, there would be little communication or continuity. PLayers would be discarded on the basis they did not suit the preferences of the manager. It could also result in a short term approach where coaches would select the oldest and strongest players to get results and protect their jobs. The benefit of Flynn's role is that he selects players who are very young for the age group and gives them the opportunity to get experience against older, stronger and sometimes more technically gifted opponents. This ensures that the players have had an excellent education in international football by the time they reach the under21s and then the seniors. And even though this approach emphasises player development over results, the results have actually been very good compared to any previous coach at all age groups. Flynn's primary role is to develop players for the seniors and in this he has excelled. Of course players receive the bulk of their coaching through their clubs and the best will always make it through. But Flynn has kick started the careers of many by giving them the opportunity to display their talents on the international stage. This often leads to greater opportunities at club level with previously sceptical managers prepared to give them an opportunity in the first team. He has also identified a large number of Anglos that have and will prove to be very important in any future qualification campaign. It should also be noted that it will become increasingly harder for youngsters to progress to the seniors as the strength of the senior squad increases. In this sense Flynn will be a victim of his own success. Nevertheless, it is fairly clear to most people that he has done an excellent job and is continuing to do so despite some disappointing recent results. And if qualification was the holy grail then Tosh should have given him Hennessy and co for the play off against England. Thats a great response and we have a proper debate here. I wonder if Spain do the 1 coach for all??? like said credit due for your reply 5 star |
|
|
|
Post by stu on Nov 15, 2011 20:12:51 GMT
No they dont but Spain has clubs that nurture youngsters instead of filling their teams with foreigners.
|
|
|
|
Post by blogdroed on Nov 15, 2011 23:16:20 GMT
I wonder if Spain do the 1 coach for all??? Not sure, but the Faroe Islands don't either ... should we follow their lead too? And yes, I know how ridiculous it is to compare Wales to the Faroe Islands ... but so is comparing us to Spain ... |
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Nov 16, 2011 14:07:38 GMT
I hate all this 'lets do it cos Spain do it' bollocks. Spain is a massive country with one of the best leagues in the world etc. completely irrelevant to Wales. If we're going to look at how other nations do it, then the likes of Slovenia and Croatia who often qualify despite similar sized populations and not particularly good leagues are far more relevant.
|
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Nov 16, 2011 21:20:57 GMT
Excellent post from jackanapes. Even if Flynn leaves it's important- VITAL in fact- that we keep the same system in place. The system - promoting continuity, rapid development, excellence - is more important than the man at the helm. Questioning it is rather bonkers if you ask me but, hey, debate ain't a bad thing |
|
