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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 23:18:38 GMT
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Post by saints19 on Aug 18, 2013 1:45:40 GMT
I think Vokes is probably our best option at the moment. Whilst he is technically mediocre just like Church, Morison and Davies, unlike those three he is at least an aerial threat and has scored a couple of good headers in his Wales career, notably against Austria and Montenegro. If we were to play him it would give us the option of crossing balls into the box for him. However we can't rely on that working. It's just another option if plan A isn't working.
I don't think it would be a bad idea altogether to try Bale as a forward, but this should be tried in a friendly, not a competitive game. By chucking Bale on up front we may well deprive ourselves of our most dangerous asset (his dribbling ability). If you played Bale and Bellamy up front together, with one dropping a little deeper (and alternating which one drops deep), that could be an interesting tactic IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 2:55:16 GMT
I think Vokes is probably our best option at the moment. Whilst he is technically mediocre just like Church, Morison and Davies, unlike those three he is at least an aerial threat and has scored a couple of good headers in his Wales career, notably against Austria and Montenegro. If we were to play him it would give us the option of crossing balls into the box for him. However we can't rely on that working. It's just another option if plan A isn't working. I don't think it would be a bad idea altogether to try Bale as a forward, but this should be tried in a friendly, not a competitive game. By chucking Bale on up front we may well deprive ourselves of our most dangerous asset (his dribbling ability). If you played Bale and Bellamy up front together, with one dropping a little deeper (and alternating which one drops deep), that could be an interesting tactic IMO. Speaking of headers that got me thinking...trivia question: who was the last Wales striker to score with his feet and when? HRK scored a header against Scotland, Bale has obviously struck some beauts recently, but hes not a striker. I make it that its been at least a year since this last occurred. Fucking amazing stat really, shows you how much we really have relied on Bale to get us results in recent times. |
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Post by caeboy on Aug 18, 2013 7:13:06 GMT
I hope Bale sorts his transfer situation out soon, even if he's not 'injured' he won't be match fit for Macedonia.
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Post by saints19 on Aug 18, 2013 17:00:55 GMT
I think Vokes is probably our best option at the moment. Whilst he is technically mediocre just like Church, Morison and Davies, unlike those three he is at least an aerial threat and has scored a couple of good headers in his Wales career, notably against Austria and Montenegro. If we were to play him it would give us the option of crossing balls into the box for him. However we can't rely on that working. It's just another option if plan A isn't working. I don't think it would be a bad idea altogether to try Bale as a forward, but this should be tried in a friendly, not a competitive game. By chucking Bale on up front we may well deprive ourselves of our most dangerous asset (his dribbling ability). If you played Bale and Bellamy up front together, with one dropping a little deeper (and alternating which one drops deep), that could be an interesting tactic IMO. Speaking of headers that got me thinking...trivia question: who was the last Wales striker to score with his feet and when? HRK scored a header against Scotland, Bale has obviously struck some beauts recently, but hes not a striker. I make it that its been at least a year since this last occurred. Fucking amazing stat really, shows you how much we really have relied on Bale to get us results in recent times. Vokes got one of his two against Norway with his feet, and a very good strike from outside the box too if I recall. That's the last time I can remember. Frankly I'm not fussed about how they go in, the more important stat was that the ROI game was our only clean sheet to date under Coleman (I believe). And realistically they should have scored at least 1. |
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 20, 2013 14:14:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 14:54:57 GMT
"If you played Bale and Bellamy up front together, with one dropping a little deeper (and alternating which one drops deep), that could be an interesting tactic IMO."
Isn't that what we sort of did against Scotland away? Bale as we know wasn't really fit enough to play that game unfortunately.
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Post by BA Baracus on Aug 20, 2013 15:43:03 GMT
Church has three to his name at Charlton so far this season.
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Post by texan on Aug 21, 2013 12:23:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 16:05:27 GMT
4 in 4 for Simon Church
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Sam Vokes
Aug 24, 2013 16:24:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 16:24:46 GMT
Today's isn't going to count though as game abandoned. Charlton having their worst start to a season for 17 years, yet Church is scoring goals in that (poor) side so that's good. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 16:41:26 GMT
Today's isn't going to count though as game abandoned. Charlton having their worst start to a season for 17 years, yet Church is scoring goals in that (poor) side so that's good. Andy Crofts scored again today as well. |
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Post by dayoo87 on Aug 24, 2013 20:43:49 GMT
I honestly don't see the point in picking Bellamy for the rest of this campaign. We have 4 Championship strikers (Morison, Church, Davies, Vokes) who will hopefully form the basis of our attack for the next few years (with hopefully Jake Cassidy and rehabilitated Ched Evans joining the squad as well). To be relying on a 34 y.o. player when we are all-but eliminated from these qualifiers shows a distinct lack of forward planning in my opinion.
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Sam Vokes
Aug 24, 2013 21:00:15 GMT
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Post by squatter1 on Aug 24, 2013 21:00:15 GMT
I honestly don't see the point in picking Bellamy for the rest of this campaign. We have 4 Championship strikers (Morison, Church, Davies, Vokes) who will hopefully form the basis of our attack for the next few years (with hopefully Jake Cassidy and rehabilitated Ched Evans joining the squad as well). To be relying on a 34 y.o. player when we are all-but eliminated from these qualifiers shows a distinct lack of forward planning in my opinion. Agreed. Other than the ched Evans bit. |
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 24, 2013 21:10:47 GMT
the ched Evans bit.
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If he comes out of jail, joins a championship club and bangs in 10 goals in his first 15 games (which I think entirely possible) would you still be against him playing for Wales?
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Post by dayoo87 on Aug 24, 2013 21:22:38 GMT
What's the point of having fixed prison sentences if the person can't come out of prison and resume his or her career having 'served their time'?
A la Lee Hughes, if Ched is still good enough to play for Wales after getting out of prison, I'd welcome him back to the international fold. He'll have more than served his time for a stupid mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 23:34:28 GMT
What's the point of having fixed prison sentences if the person can't come out of prison and resume his or her career having 'served their time'? A la Lee Hughes, if Ched is still good enough to play for Wales after getting out of prison, I'd welcome him back to the international fold. He'll have more than served his time for a stupid mistake. He's to be released in October 2014, he'll be 25 years old nearing 26. Our Euro 2016 campaign will already be kicked off...hopefully we can get a good start to this campaign. If Ched Evans can immediately prove himself to be a prolific goalscorer at championship level then imo he should be straight in the squad! |
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Post by Tim P on Aug 25, 2013 9:27:43 GMT
I agree with promoting youth as part of a long term project, but I think it's important to keep select older players around for guidance and support. Bellamy, if he is as patriotic as he claims, will be happy to take a gradually lesser role as long as it helps the squad qualify.
As for Ched Evans - once his sentence is served, and provided he gets into good form, there is no ethical dilemma in picking him.
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Sam Vokes
Aug 25, 2013 11:41:22 GMT
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Post by squatter1 on Aug 25, 2013 11:41:22 GMT
the ched Evans bit. ------------ If he comes out of jail, joins a championship club and bangs in 10 goals in his first 15 games (which I think entirely possible) would you still be against him playing for Wales? Yes, to be honest. Of course once he's served his sentence he should be free to continue his life and career, but a recall for a convicted rapist to the national squad? Nah, not going to happen from an image point of view. Rape is not in most people's eyes 'a silly mistake' but rather a truly disgusting crime, and like it or not that's what he's been convicted of. FAW wouldn't want it, and neither would I tbh. Would be a PR disaster. To say there's no ethical dilemma here is frankly ridiculous - this is a classic dilemma, all we can each do is decide which side we come down on. On the footballing dimension to the Evans question: the fact we are even talking about the hope that a striker who was having success in League One might come out of prison and play for us in four years time just underlines our desperation for a goalscorer! Imagining Evans to be 'our best striker who was taken away from us' is the same blind optimism that has all of our U21s becoming stars that we tend to suffer from on here. Oh yes, and Bellamy - I'm all for him being around the squad and on the bench if he's still playing professionally come next season, but he's consistently in people's first 11s on here whether talking about the next match or the beginning of the next qualifiers, which is again blind optimism. |
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Post by Tim P on Aug 25, 2013 15:29:13 GMT
But you say it yourself - he should be free to continue his career. If anything, reintegrating a convicted criminal into a national squad shows intellectual maturity in a society.
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 25, 2013 18:44:41 GMT
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 25, 2013 18:47:20 GMT
On the footballing dimension to the Evans question: the fact we are even talking about the hope that a striker who was having success in League One might come out of prison and play for us in four years time just underlines our desperation for a goalscorer!
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If his good behaviour in prison continues, he should be out in little over 13 months from now. He scored 35 goals the season he was convicted- this isn't some lower league journeyman we are talking about.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 20:12:37 GMT
But you say it yourself - he should be free to continue his career. If anything, reintegrating a convicted criminal into a national squad shows intellectual maturity in a society. ...as well as a lack of respect towards the victim? I don't think a high profile stage is a fitting place for someone like Ched and I don't want him and his crime to overshadow anything we may achieve in the future, which it undoubtedly would do especially if we qualify. Regardless of what I think, the FAW wouldn't allow it, they were said to be deeply troubled at the idea of Giggs being manager when his promiscuous habits came to light weren't they? If thats true then we can guess what they think of Ched... |
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Post by Tim P on Aug 25, 2013 20:33:07 GMT
The sentence will have been served, end of - that's the whole point of the sentence and of the whole justice system in a civilised society.
The FAW were 'said to be deeply troubled' were they? Conjecture. The FAW could not give a shit who Ryan Giggs was romancing.
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 25, 2013 20:51:52 GMT
But you say it yourself - he should be free to continue his career. If anything, reintegrating a convicted criminal into a national squad shows intellectual maturity in a society. ...as well as a lack of respect towards the victim? I don't think a high profile stage is a fitting place for someone like Ched and I don't want him and his crime to overshadow anything we may achieve in the future, which it undoubtedly would do especially if we qualify. Regardless of what I think, the FAW wouldn't allow it, they were said to be deeply troubled at the idea of Giggs being manager when his promiscuous habits came to light weren't they? If thats true then we can guess what they think of Ched... I'll ask again, what is so different about Belgium? www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9069-ilombe-mboyo-s-long-road-to-an-international-call-up |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 21:42:11 GMT
...as well as a lack of respect towards the victim? I don't think a high profile stage is a fitting place for someone like Ched and I don't want him and his crime to overshadow anything we may achieve in the future, which it undoubtedly would do especially if we qualify. Regardless of what I think, the FAW wouldn't allow it, they were said to be deeply troubled at the idea of Giggs being manager when his promiscuous habits came to light weren't they? If thats true then we can guess what they think of Ched... I'll ask again, what is so different about Belgium? www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9069-ilombe-mboyo-s-long-road-to-an-international-call-upBelgium can do what they like, as can the FAW. Its interesting that the author of the article hides a multitude of sins in the phrase "took a few wrong turns" (ie gang rape) and has been sharply taken to task in the comments section which gives an indicator of the inevitable public feeling on such crimes. I am not sure I would like our football team to be under the microscope for fielding a convicted rapist as he (and therefore us) inevitably will be. The feminist lobby is a very loud and powerful beast and make no mistake, they will be on our case should we qualify for a summer championships and give a stage to a convicted rapist, its unfortunate but that is how it is and I would rather we were famous for our football rather than our work rehabilitating ex-cons. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 21:56:31 GMT
The sentence will have been served, end of - that's the whole point of the sentence and of the whole justice system in a civilised society. The FAW were 'said to be deeply troubled' were they? Conjecture. The FAW could not give a shit who Ryan Giggs was romancing. I think you might be surprised how moralistic the FAW are! We shall have to wait and see what happens when Ched finds a new club and is in contention for a recall. I doubt they will come right out and tell the world that hes persona non grata due to his history. But I predict that he won't be selected again and that any questions on the matter will be ducked/shut down- at least while the current encumbents are on the council. Don't forget that the FAW's sole aim is to put bums on seats and sell shirts- Ched is likely to lose fans and damage the FAW's reputation. |
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 25, 2013 22:10:35 GMT
has been sharply taken to task in the comments section which gives an indicator of the inevitable public feeling on such crimes. -
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Mboyo took part in the gang rape of a 14 year old girl. In Ched Evans' case, a sexually promiscuous cocaine user (this is in the public domain) says she can't remember what happened to her. Two hugely different cases.
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Don't forget that the FAW's sole aim is to put bums on seats and sell shirts-
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Disagree. In terms of the council, its self preservation. the big money comes from TV deals and sponsorship, so they don't really care about 'bums on seats' and selling shirt. If they really do, they're doing a fucking terrible job....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 22:43:32 GMT
has been sharply taken to task in the comments section which gives an indicator of the inevitable public feeling on such crimes. - ---------- Mboyo took part in the gang rape of a 14 year old girl. In Ched Evans' case, a sexually promiscuous cocaine user (this is in the public domain) says she can't remember what happened to her. Two hugely different cases. ------------ Don't forget that the FAW's sole aim is to put bums on seats and sell shirts- ------------- Disagree. In terms of the council, its self preservation. the big money comes from TV deals and sponsorship, so they don't really care about 'bums on seats' and selling shirt. If they really do, they're doing a fucking terrible job.... I expressed my doubts about the case at the time- however, he was convicted and I have to have faith that the jury were presented with evidence that didn't make it into the public domain and made the waters clearer than it appeared to the public. He was still convicted of rape, so attempting to minimise the severity is going to be a thankless task in the face of all the flak that will be flying around on his release. As for the FAW, Gary Speed was a shirt selling appointment and when you are picking a manager based on the potential image gain and makreting opportunities rather than a Lagerback who no-one has heard of but has a pedigree then that pretty much screams "WE ONLY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT TEH MONEY!!!11" in big pink neon lights at the top of FAW towers. And Ched could throw a spanner in those works, especially with sponsorship deals. Look how quickly athletes get dropped when their reputation is tarnished by doping or whatever. Associating with a convicted rapist is hardly going to get sponsors licking their lips to cosy up to the FAW. As Squatter said, its negative PR and that is ultimately what will dictate whether Ched plays for Wales again. |
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 26, 2013 21:03:58 GMT
Did the Belgian FA lose sposorship deals when they picked Mboyo? (maybe they did- this is a genuine enquiry, and if any of the Belgians who were on here last year can tell us more, I'd be interested to know. Merci)
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