Sam Vokes

[toshfan]

I am hoping that we have that bit more strength of depth than we realise, as we did with our defence last year (e.g. Neil Taylor RB against Macedonia or Jazz Richards RB against Belgium).

HRK is certainly an option as is Simon Church as is Tom Lawrence. I do not think we should write off Craig Davies. Maybe too soon for Wes Burns?

I have never supported the Bale or Joniesta up front option but it could be in the mix.

If Bellamy is still playing, would he help us out in our hour of need?

[luke]

Apr 1, 2014 17:02:07 GMT toshfan said:

I am hoping that we have that bit more strength of depth than we realise, as we did with our defence last year (e.g. Neil Taylor RB against Macedonia or Jazz Richards RB against Belgium).

HRK is certainly an option as is Simon Church as is Tom Lawrence. I do not think we should write off Craig Davies. Maybe too soon for Wes Burns?

I have never supported the Bale or Joniesta up front option but it could be in the mix.

If Bellamy is still playing, would he help us out in our hour of need?

Hmm, bit of a reality check needed. Simon Church has a great attitude and commitment but is not as strong as HRK. Tom Lawrence is not ready. Craig Davies isn't good enough. No real need to comment on the idea of Williams up front or Burns' readiness.

Bellamy will likely retire from football altogether at the end of this season. He really isn't an option and with all due respect we should move on.

Robson-Kanu is the sensible choice as centre forward, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Coleman go with Church. Church would be good enough against the weaker teams but will struggle to make an impact against Bosnia.

[flynnfan]

Gutted for Vokes but not suprised. It's the laws of Welsh football - as soon as something starts going right then it goes spectacularly wrong.

Ched Evans finally comes good, scores 35 goals in less than a season then gets locked up for a 'crime' there's no actual eveidence even took place.

Sam Vokes finally comes good, scoring 21 goals to help his team to the verge of the premier league, then suffers a serious knee injury with the finishing line in sight.

If Simon Church scores 30 goals for Charlton next season I fully expect him to spontaneously combust on the pitch during their final match...

[llannerch]

If Simon Church scores 30 goals for Charlton next season I fully expect to spontaneously combust...

[Deleted]

Apr 2, 2014 10:51:32 GMT llannerch said:

If Simon Church scores 30 goals for Charlton next season I fully expect to spontaneously combust...

[squatter1]

I notice Simon Church is not even on the Charlton bench at the moment.

Is he injured? Or is he not even good enough to be a squad player in the lower reaches of the Championship?

[toshfan]

Apr 2, 2014 10:17:46 GMT luke said:

Apr 1, 2014 17:02:07 GMT toshfan said:

I am hoping that we have that bit more strength of depth than we realise, as we did with our defence last year (e.g. Neil Taylor RB against Macedonia or Jazz Richards RB against Belgium).

HRK is certainly an option as is Simon Church as is Tom Lawrence. I do not think we should write off Craig Davies. Maybe too soon for Wes Burns?

I have never supported the Bale or Joniesta up front option but it could be in the mix.

If Bellamy is still playing, would he help us out in our hour of need?

Hmm, bit of a reality check needed. Simon Church has a great attitude and commitment but is not as strong as HRK. Tom Lawrence is not ready. Craig Davies isn't good enough. No real need to comment on the idea of Williams up front or Burns' readiness.

Bellamy will likely retire from football altogether at the end of this season. He really isn't an option and with all due respect we should move on.

Robson-Kanu is the sensible choice as centre forward, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Coleman go with Church. Church would be good enough against the weaker teams but will struggle to make an impact against Bosnia.

Having carried out a reality check I am fully aware of the seriousness of the loss of Vokes. I have already conceded that HRK is a good choice but my central point is that it may not be as bad as we fear.

You are probably right about Davies & Church against the stronger teams, though the latter performance well against Macedonia & Belgium. You are probably right about Bellamy too!

Where we probably disagree strongest is on Tom Lawrence. Whilst he has not scored a great deal, his performances for Carlisle & Yeovil have been impressive, as it was against England u21s.

[abwales]

Pretty sure Tom Lawrence always plays on the left or central midfield so I don't think he's an option.

I agree with what most of you lot are saying. HRK up front, Jonathan Williams on the wing, although I think HRK has done a massively underrated job on the left. If he's out Craig Davies is next choice.

[welshiron]

There is not much to choose between Church, Davies, Morison and even Easter so I would play whichever one of those starts next season well

Probably too early for Lawrence and Wilson, although these could be our wide players for many years to come (with Bale having a free role behind the striker

[Tim P]

Apr 2, 2014 10:51:32 GMT llannerch said:

If Simon Church scores 30 goals for Charlton next season I fully expect to spontaneously combust...

Post of 2014 (so far).

[cymroircarn]

So who should play up front until Vokes returns feom injury and/or hits form again?

Church seems to have a good understanding with Ramsey

HRK played well in that role in Scotland and Joniesta could cover his wide position.

Anyone else? Craig Davies?

[llannerch]

HRK is worthy of a run there, but it is too close to the qualifiers for that; should have happened a while back. Maybe use nobody and find a system that employs are abundant midfielders in and around the box?

If anyone mentions Jermaine Easter I demand that board access is immediately revoked

[squatter1]

May 21, 2014 12:51:41 GMT llannerch said:

HRK is worthy of a run there, but it is too close to the qualifiers for that; should have happened a while back. Maybe use nobody and find a system that employs are abundant midfielders in and around the box?

If it's too late to give HRK a run in that position as he's only played there once before for us, surely it's too late to try some kind of 'false nine' scenario which we've never tried before?

For me, it should be HRK up front instead of Vokes with Joniesta wide left.

I suspect Coleman will keep trust with the players he's used before, however, and he'll start Church up front, and HRK wide left. I hope not, but that's what I think he'll do.

I'm not against trying someone like Ledley up front (he's played behind the striker a fair bit since arriving at Palace) but as you say we just haven't had any time to try something as drastic as that.

[Deleted]

I agree with squatter that Coleman is most likely to stick with Simon Church and maybe have Joniesta/Robson-Kanu and Gareth Bale out wide.

He's likely to have Aaron Ramsey behind Simon Church in a 4-4-1-1 formation, as Cymroircarn mentioned Ramsey and Church seem to play well together.

If we're to play a false 9 (like Naismith for Everton, or less comparable Fabregas for Barcelona) then Ramsey, Allen, Joniesta or Bale would be the best options for this in my opinion.

Will Tom Lawrence or George Williams (or another) young player emerge as a good option? I hope so.

[toshfan]

I agree that Church is the likely option. Coleman appears to like him as do the players. His previous two qualifiers, he did a good job and took his goal against Macedonia well.

However, my view is that it need not be too late to give HRK a stab at it or Tom Lawrence for that matter.

Lots to try out against Holland.

[Deleted]

In a few years maybe?

/photo/1

[jonathandearth]

Bale and Lawrence up front against Holland


A midfield of Ledley, Allen, Ramsey and King

[melynwy]

I think that playing Gareth Bale up front would be a complete waste - he's not a striker, and he's at his best running at defenders. Wales strikers are invariably out of the game half the time, so Bale would need to track back a lot to get the ball, negating much of the point of sticking up front in the first place.

Against better teams such as Belgium, Bale should perhaps be playing deeper to try and draw their defence out - and especially if being double marked - in order to leave space for our other players. He'd also need to do some defending (and he's a damn good defender), so sticking him at the quiet end of the pitch just in case he scores seems daft.

Against other teams where Wales would hope to attack more, Bale needs space to run at the defence, so sticking him up front just in case he scores also seems daft.

So never ever ever play Bale as a striker...! I really don't get it,it's almost the same logic as sticking the worst player in defence/goal at school! It seems to be "Bale is a good football player. Strikers are the most famous players who score most goals. To be goog at football you need to score goals. We need to score goals so we'll put Bale as a striker"

Sorry,bit of a rant, not really aimed at you Jonathan, it just really puzzles me when people suggest putting our greatest asset in perhaps the least important position on the field!

[squatter1]

As they say - you play your best players in their best positions - that means Bale plays wide right/free attacking role off a striker.

I agree playing Bale in an unfamiliar position would be daft.

I think it's less daft to play one of our not-as-good-as-Bale-or-Ramsey players out of position if needs be as striker: Joe Ledley. You heard it here first.

[cymroircarn]

May 21, 2014 16:48:14 GMT melynwy said:

I think that playing Gareth Bale up front would be a complete waste - he's not a striker, and he's at his best running at defenders. Wales strikers are invariably out of the game half the time, so Bale would need to track back a lot to get the ball, negating much of the point of sticking up front in the first place.

Against better teams such as Belgium, Bale should perhaps be playing deeper to try and draw their defence out - and especially if being double marked - in order to leave space for our other players. He'd also need to do some defending (and he's a damn good defender), so sticking him at the quiet end of the pitch just in case he scores seems daft.

Against other teams where Wales would hope to attack more, Bale needs space to run at the defence, so sticking him up front just in case he scores also seems daft.

So never ever ever play Bale as a striker...! I really don't get it,it's almost the same logic as sticking the worst player in defence/goal at school! It seems to be "Bale is a good football player. Strikers are the most famous players who score most goals. To be goog at football you need to score goals. We need to score goals so we'll put Bale as a striker"

Sorry,bit of a rant, not really aimed at you Jonathan, it just really puzzles me when people suggest putting our greatest asset in perhaps the least important position on the field!

Agree with this. We need Bale running at people bot holding the ball up as a lone striker

[Tim P]

Joniesta - Lawrence - Bale

At worst, Lawrence will be at a championship club next season. We need to be bold: Kanu, Church, Davies... never going to cut it in my opinion.

I'd also consider Joniesta - Ramsey - Bale

Quite evidently, Ramsey is a better finisher than anyone else in our squad barring Bale perhaps.

[saints19]

Ramsey is a good finisher but is crap in the air. HRK or Church for me. Ramsey is also our best midfielder and can pick out a world class pass. Would you honestly want him up front?

I have never even watched Lawrence play. If he starts getting club games at CF, then fair enough, but until then, I'd rather stick with the proven mediocrities than those who may be worse.

What is Morison up to these days?

[cymroircarn]

I forgot about Morison! Him, Church, Davies and Lawrence to be called up?

[abwales]

My order of preference at this moment of time: HRK, Church and Lawrence.

Ramsey is right at the bottom below the goalkeeper in my local 5 a side pub team.

Unlike everyone, I'd be open to the idea of Bale given a free role, playing on the opposition defensive line, with no defensive responsibility. Bale playing on the wing leaves us weaker defensively on whichever side and that wouldn't be the case if he was up top.

[Tim P]

May 21, 2014 19:42:50 GMT saints19 said:

Ramsey is a good finisher but is crap in the air. HRK or Church for me. Ramsey is also our best midfielder and can pick out a world class pass. Would you honestly want him up front?

I have never even watched Lawrence play. If he starts getting club games at CF, then fair enough, but until then, I'd rather stick with the proven mediocrities than those who may be worse.

What is Morison up to these days?

Which is better: Alright in the air (nothing more) and a poor finisher OR crap in the air and an accomplished finisher?

How many flick-ons lead directly to goals?

Bale is good in the air - we can use that as and when required.

'I'd rather stick to proven mediocrities than those who may be worse'

Really? Say goodbye to qualifying then.

[ontheroadagain]

May 21, 2014 20:45:24 GMT Tim P said:

May 21, 2014 19:42:50 GMT saints19 said:

Ramsey is a good finisher but is crap in the air. HRK or Church for me. Ramsey is also our best midfielder and can pick out a world class pass. Would you honestly want him up front?

I have never even watched Lawrence play. If he starts getting club games at CF, then fair enough, but until then, I'd rather stick with the proven mediocrities than those who may be worse.

What is Morison up to these days?

Which is better: Alright in the air (nothing more) and a poor finisher OR crap in the air and an accomplished finisher?

How many flick-ons lead directly to goals?

Bale is good in the air - we can use that as and when required.

'I'd rather stick to proven mediocrities than those who may be worse'

Really? Say goodbye to qualifying then.

Agreed. Ramsey has scored with headers and so has Allen. Creating the space to getting in the header is part of the secret.

[Deleted]

As abwales has pointed out previously, Bale is quite often not in games and will pop up with a goal when it matters....so it may not necessarily be the end of the world to play him as a striker.

For my money we need a player who can actually finish up front and very few of our players can. Bale is not only our best player around the pitch he is also the best finisher we have- he has the technique and accuracy of a top striker but this is overlooked because of his more physical attributes and driving runs.

Literally, the only other alternative that we have to the striker position is Lawrence, will he be available to play all our games? Is it too much to expect of him?

Other than that its s false 9 but I'm not convinced we are good enough to play that way- Barcelona did not exactly develop it overnight at the drop of a hat, we have perhaps left it too late to be sure its the way forward for us in time for the next campaign.

All in all, its a crap situation all round. I favour playing Lawrence in a friendly as a lone striker and see how that goes, I also think its worth trying Bale there to see how he gets on. I think we need this as a plan B either way. If Bale is being tightly marked by 2 or 3 players out wide moving him to central striker could cause some defensive dilemmas for the opposition.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2014 22:24:34 GMT @storm said:

As abwales has pointed out previously, Bale is quite often not in games and will pop up with a goal when it matters....so it may not necessarily be the end of the world to play him as a striker.

For my money we need a player who can actually finish up front and very few of our players can. Bale is not only our best player around the pitch he is also the best finisher we have- he has the technique and accuracy of a top striker but this is overlooked because of his more physical attributes and driving runs.

Literally, the only other alternative that we have to the striker position is Lawrence, will he be available to play all our games? Is it too much to expect of him?

Other than that its s false 9 but I'm not convinced we are good enough to play that way- Barcelona did not exactly develop it overnight at the drop of a hat, we have perhaps left it too late to be sure its the way forward for us in time for the next campaign.

All in all, its a crap situation all round. I favour playing Lawrence in a friendly as a lone striker and see how that goes, I also think its worth trying Bale there to see how he gets on. I think we need this as a plan B either way. If Bale is being tightly marked by 2 or 3 players out wide moving him to central striker could cause some defensive dilemmas for the opposition.

Good analysis.
I like the idea of bale up top as our premier finisher. He is one of the worlds best so why not start him there but with licence to roam around and drop deeper when he likes.

Players comfortable on the ball like williams and lawrence can move fluidly either side of bale in the 4-3-3. Hrk as a striker or wider player and church as a striker are useful back up options.

I agree with trendy insofar as we should put out the players with most quality regardless of position.

I also think we should push declan john further up the pitch like we did with bale (ps for the english rags....we did this first...not harry).

We should try to use this whole situation to our advantage to make us more dangerous.

We don't have long though. Against iceland we mixed it up and knocked a lot of long balls up to vokes although this tactic didn't really work that well. I like vokes but he is limited so maybe having to find another way will work to our advantage further down the line.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2014 22:50:31 GMT @baresi said:

May 21, 2014 22:24:34 GMT @storm said:

As abwales has pointed out previously, Bale is quite often not in games and will pop up with a goal when it matters....so it may not necessarily be the end of the world to play him as a striker.

For my money we need a player who can actually finish up front and very few of our players can. Bale is not only our best player around the pitch he is also the best finisher we have- he has the technique and accuracy of a top striker but this is overlooked because of his more physical attributes and driving runs.

Literally, the only other alternative that we have to the striker position is Lawrence, will he be available to play all our games? Is it too much to expect of him?

Other than that its s false 9 but I'm not convinced we are good enough to play that way- Barcelona did not exactly develop it overnight at the drop of a hat, we have perhaps left it too late to be sure its the way forward for us in time for the next campaign.

All in all, its a crap situation all round. I favour playing Lawrence in a friendly as a lone striker and see how that goes, I also think its worth trying Bale there to see how he gets on. I think we need this as a plan B either way. If Bale is being tightly marked by 2 or 3 players out wide moving him to central striker could cause some defensive dilemmas for the opposition.

Good analysis.
I like the idea of bale up top as our premier finisher. He is one of the worlds best so why not start him there but with licence to roam around and drop deeper when he likes.

Players comfortable on the ball like williams and lawrence can move fluidly either side of bale in the 4-3-3. Hrk as a striker or wider player and church as a striker are useful back up options.

I agree with trendy insofar as we should put out the players with most quality regardless of position.

I also think we should push declan john further up the pitch like we did with bale (ps for the english rags....we did this first...not harry).

We should try to use this whole situation to our advantage to make us more dangerous.

We don't have long though. Against iceland we mixed it up and knocked a lot of long balls up to vokes although this tactic didn't really work that well. I like vokes but he is limited so maybe having to find another way will work to our advantage further down the line.

Just to add, thats what he was doing at Spurs to good effect. Remember the goal he scored against Swansea (one of his best imo)? Thats the proof he can play as a striker, long ball knocked in and Bale is exactly where you would expect a striker to be- on the edge of the D, takes a touch and bang- effortless volley into the top corner.

Would like to see him take up those positions for Wales in a game and see how we go from there.

[dai]

The obvious choice for me would be HRK, he's done enough to earn a shot at that position imo. But then we've got a nice variety of attacking options if everyone's fit.

Some have mentioned playing Bale upfront, but I think this weakens him as an attacking threat. He needs to have more of a free reign rather than being a 'target'.

For holland I would like to see tried:

HRK

Bale

Allen - Ramsey - Joniesta

Huws

Defenders (sorry couldnt be bothered atm)

And please, no one mention Morison here, don't ever want to see him in a Wales shirt again!