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Post by conwy10 on Nov 19, 2023 10:53:48 GMT
I keep going back to it but everytime you hear Page it's the camp went well, people looking sharp, staff doing well, great spirit in the team. I have to question though if everything's going well, why don't the results follow. Are the camps not challenging enough and feel like a lads weekend away in Armenia? If the training is going well and players are looking sharp why do players struggle to link up in games? Is what they're training not match relevant?
Neco and Roberts never get forward anymore, they're vital to give us width in attack, if they can't do we need a rethink in formation as 3 up there are understandably finding it difficult. He's got a lot of questions but we never seem to get answers beyond everything's going great. I feel he's more of a spin doctor than a manager.
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 10:54:22 GMT
Come on dragon …you lose your arguments when your so far removed from reality. Page has cost us qualification. Time for him to do the decent thing and leave. I don’t think page out is our best bet, I can see why others think so but to me we have just qualified for 3 tournaments and in still in with a chance to get to a fourth. We have to look where we have come from, that was a drew away against a side that got the better of us twice. Like us with Croatia or a Belgium. In the group we are third, are we better than Croatia and turkey? No we are not, we are exactly where our quality dictates. This isn’t all on page I’m afraid and that’s why I don’t see any manager doing better. It’s pure blind hatred to start rewriting the narrative of a superb display in Croatia Page has been part of the first team set up for 6 years. More than enough team to get the team playing coherently and to have prepared the way for life without Bale Croatia was an excellent performance, but other than that they have been dire under him in the last 18 months We are increasingly playing first division type hoof ball - not the Welsh way as I understand it and its a lazy or basic option which means your game plan is entirely built around a single player well into his 30s who can't get a minute on the pitch for his club. Our ability to break seems to be deteriorating or under utilised. Page and his assistant were central defenders but our defending on a proactive basis is terrible at times. Roberts and some other players seem uncertain as to what to do in an attacking sense - Conor inevitable turns back or sideways or loses the ball - he is now worse than Gunter as he is a worse defender but offers next to nothing moving forward. The lack of 'any' body in the box on the break in the first half when Kiefer had got the better of someone down the flank speaks volumes in terms of our attacking play. What does Gunter do with the squad? His was another job for the boys - I am sure there were a lot of every experienced, qualified coaches Page could have brought in instead? Hardly any successful tactical changes when things go against us. Broadhead vs Croatia away? That had a large element of luck and now he is Page's go to sub because it worked in that one game - he was poor again for us - lost the ball in quite a few promising situation. Getting clearly outplayed against the 95th ranking twice, with their players looking like they play at a higher level, is sending a clear message - the sum of our parts is far worse than the individual players who are playing at a significantly higher level than the Armenians. Was this a fluke? No! We struggled at home again against Latvia, we drew at home against Estonia when it mattered, we should have lost away to Belarus and would have if we did not have Bale. Page is sadly not good enough - we know with him we have zero chance of qualifying for a WC. It will be more hoof ball and desperation, players discipline going out of the window and players will start pulling out of the squads again We qualified for the WC because of Bale, supported by the likes of James. Without Bale we would not have qualified The question who else can we afford? Well anyone who can coach Wales to play in a consistent way that has a plan B and gets more out of what we had and most managers should be capable of that. Page has had 6 years on work experience for the national team and we are getting worse and struggling - he and his coaching team are in my view having a negative impact on the team as a whole and we can play far better than we have. That does not mean we would be better than Turkey or Croatia but we do not have to accept the manner of those shocking performances we have seen against Armenia and other minnows in the recent past. Page maybe deserves the play-offs but the FAW need to immediately seek out a replacement when we fail as I just cannot see how we get past a team like Poland away under him |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 10:58:01 GMT
Weren’t we the second seeds? At the start of the group we were all quite happy with the draw. Unfortunately having Armenia play us off the park TWICE has lost us our qualifiers. In my opinion we’ve had one great result in the group and outside of that result the rest of the performances have been completely hit n miss. Our results against everyone else have been good enough. It's the Armenia games that have tripped us up completely. Had we even just won the home game we'd be in a great position to qualify Half of our starting 11 aren't playing for clubs? Then why the bloody hell does he start all half of them? We should have learned that lesson from the WC. We had attacking alternatives who were playing regular, one of which has been on fire. The guy rewarding performances of a month ago and overplaying his loyalty card is not fit for purpose - this is elite sport |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 11:03:33 GMT
I keep going back to it but everytime you hear Page it's the camp went well, people looking sharp, staff doing well, great spirit in the team. I have to question though if everything's going well, why don't the results follow. Are the camps not challenging enough and feel like a lads weekend away in Armenia? If the training is going well and players are looking sharp why do players struggle to link up in games? Is what they're training not match relevant? Neco and Roberts never get forward anymore, they're vital to give us width in attack, if they can't do we need a rethink in formation as 3 up there are understandably finding it difficult. He's got a lot of questions but we never seem to get answers beyond everything's going great. I feel he's more of a spin doctor than a manager. Exactly - 3 centre backs and our wing backs (especially Conor) do not get forward much When things were going well I questioned my concern about comments from Page and the camp before the WC like 'its like playing with your mates in the park' and something which indicated that training was not that intense. That is not the preparation / the attitude you need for elite sport. Look at his back room staff. No longer any foreign coaches (Giggs had 2 originally) but instead we get 2 people connected with him from Sheffield Utd and an ex-player with no experience. What has happened to the quality of our performance since? 6 years in a set up is more than long enough when the performances have started to go downhill at speed over the past 18 months, It is not only disappointing watching Wales but it is also bloody boring given the shit way we are playing the game |
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 11:14:05 GMT
Our results against everyone else have been good enough. It's the Armenia games that have tripped us up completely. Had we even just won the home game we'd be in a great position to qualify Half of our starting 11 aren't playing for clubs? Then why the bloody hell does he start all half of them? We should have learned that lesson from the WC. We had attacking alternatives who were playing regular, one of which has been on fire. The guy rewarding performances of a month ago and overplaying his loyalty card is not fit for purpose - this is elite sport So you wouldn’t start, ward, Neco, Connor, Mepham, moore, brooks.. even Johnson has limited minutes Edit: add Davies to that list Let’s have your team without them? Dip in to league 2 is it? Sounds like you’re pining for the toshack days |
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 11:18:40 GMT
I keep going back to it but everytime you hear Page it's the camp went well, people looking sharp, staff doing well, great spirit in the team. I have to question though if everything's going well, why don't the results follow. Are the camps not challenging enough and feel like a lads weekend away in Armenia? If the training is going well and players are looking sharp why do players struggle to link up in games? Is what they're training not match relevant? Neco and Roberts never get forward anymore, they're vital to give us width in attack, if they can't do we need a rethink in formation as 3 up there are understandably finding it difficult. He's got a lot of questions but we never seem to get answers beyond everything's going great. I feel he's more of a spin doctor than a manager. Exactly - 3 centre backs and our wing backs (especially Conor) do not get forward much When things were going well I questioned my concern about comments from Page and the camp before the WC like 'its like playing with your mates in the park' and something which indicated that training was not that intense. That is not the preparation / the attitude you need for elite sport. Look at his back room staff. No longer any foreign coaches (Giggs had 2 originally) but instead we get 2 people connected with him from Sheffield Utd and an ex-player with no experience. What has happened to the quality of our performance since? 6 years in a set up is more than long enough when the performances have started to go downhill at speed over the past 18 months, It is not only disappointing watching Wales but it is also bloody boring given the shit way we are playing the game Again zero losses in 5 games, 2 goals conceded Yet this nitpicking about interviews, apparent attitude. I don’t think it’s pages fault, roberts and Neco can’t get a game whilst RND is seemingly missing and injured for over a year. I get the performance aspect to an extent.. the World Cup was disappointing we tried something against Armenia but these comments based on interviews where you dissect every sentence is just bizarre |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 11:28:41 GMT
Half of our starting 11 aren't playing for clubs? Then why the bloody hell does he start all half of them? We should have learned that lesson from the WC. We had attacking alternatives who were playing regular, one of which has been on fire. The guy rewarding performances of a month ago and overplaying his loyalty card is not fit for purpose - this is elite sport So you wouldn’t start, ward, Neco, Connor, Mepham, moore, brooks.. even Johnson has limited minutes Let’s have your team without them? Dip in to league 2 is it? Sounds like you’re pining for the toshack days James who is on fire should definitely have played instead of Brooks, with Wilson dropping central. Johnson instead of Moore perhaps as Moore has not kicked a ball in a month and given how slow their defence was. Johnson did nothing when he came on but who knows how it would have gone if he started? They needed to win lets not forget and that leaves you exposed to pace on the break. Page was wrong to play 2 players who had not played for a month over two players who were playing regularly - we know why he did it but that reason shows why he should not be our manager I hope Dasilva and Huggins are decent as we could do with trying someone else instead of Neco and especially Connor moving forward. This will be unlikely to happen under Page though, even though most can see Conor is no longer working for us |
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Post by rob on Nov 19, 2023 11:32:03 GMT
Connor starts most games for Burnley.
Argument for replacing Mepham with Lockyer.
Surely James or Johnson better bet than Brooks as they are playing regularly.
Johnson not a no.9 so big issue in alternative to Moore as Bradshaw not good enough.
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Post by jbt95 on Nov 19, 2023 11:34:07 GMT
Connor starts most games gor Burnley. Argument for replacing Mepham with Lockyer. Surely James or Johnson better bet than Brooks as they are playing regularly. Johnson not a no.9 so big issue in alternative to Moore as Bradshaw not good enough. How do we know Bradshaw isn’t good enough? The guys not been given a chance. |
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Post by rob on Nov 19, 2023 11:37:38 GMT
8 games without even looking like scoring.
Page has to have a target man too-like Mark Hughes really had to have.
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 11:39:47 GMT
So you wouldn’t start, ward, Neco, Connor, Mepham, moore, brooks.. even Johnson has limited minutes Let’s have your team without them? Dip in to league 2 is it? Sounds like you’re pining for the toshack days James who is on fire should definitely have played instead of Brooks, with Wilson dropping central. Johnson instead of Moore perhaps as Moore has not kicked a ball in a month and given how slow their defence was. Johnson did nothing when he came on but who knows how it would have gone if he started? They needed to win lets not forget and that leaves you exposed to pace on the break. Page was wrong to play 2 players who had not played for a month over two players who were playing regularly - we know why he did it but that reason shows why he should not be our manager I hope Dasilva and Huggins are decent as we could do with trying someone else instead of Neco and especially Connor moving forward. This will be unlikely to happen under Page though, even though most can see Conor is no longer working for us So basically the side that lost 4-2 to Armenia you would have gone with |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 12:12:02 GMT
James who is on fire should definitely have played instead of Brooks, with Wilson dropping central. Johnson instead of Moore perhaps as Moore has not kicked a ball in a month and given how slow their defence was. Johnson did nothing when he came on but who knows how it would have gone if he started? They needed to win lets not forget and that leaves you exposed to pace on the break. Page was wrong to play 2 players who had not played for a month over two players who were playing regularly - we know why he did it but that reason shows why he should not be our manager I hope Dasilva and Huggins are decent as we could do with trying someone else instead of Neco and especially Connor moving forward. This will be unlikely to happen under Page though, even though most can see Conor is no longer working for us So basically the side that lost 4-2 to Armenia you would have gone with No because as you are well aware we had Ramsey as the holding midfield and everyone knew how that one would go Without a doubt, Brooks gives better balance than Wilson in the 10 role BUT he has not played!!! Moore has not played!!! We have more solidity now with Jordan James - we have 2 holding midfielders and 5 at the back. So 3 players left - I would have Wilson, James and Moore (or Johnson). That is not the same as the crazy formation we had at home |
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 13:19:01 GMT
So basically the side that lost 4-2 to Armenia you would have gone with No because as you are well aware we had Ramsey as the holding midfield and everyone knew how that one would go Without a doubt, Brooks gives better balance than Wilson in the 10 role BUT he has not played!!! Moore has not played!!! We have more solidity now with Jordan James - we have 2 holding midfielders and 5 at the back. So 3 players left - I would have Wilson, James and Moore (or Johnson). That is not the same as the crazy formation we had at home Come on I’ve given you free rein and you’ve gone with the predictable James and Johnson. Who played 40 mins and were totally ineffective. Jordan James surely you credit page for that? What about Davies, Mepham, Neco, ward… all not playing for club who you brining in to replace them? |
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Post by cymro on Nov 19, 2023 13:22:40 GMT
I think the irony is if we'd flipped it around and got just 1 point against Croatia and 4 points against Armenia (which I think most of us probably expected was the most likely scenario) then we'd be out now. I wouldn't say we've underachieved in this group, the points total going into the final game is exactly what I would have expected going into the campaign. Turkey as 4th seeds is what's really done us over. Any other 4th seed in our group and I think 14 points would be enough.
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 19, 2023 13:25:26 GMT
No because as you are well aware we had Ramsey as the holding midfield and everyone knew how that one would go Without a doubt, Brooks gives better balance than Wilson in the 10 role BUT he has not played!!! Moore has not played!!! We have more solidity now with Jordan James - we have 2 holding midfielders and 5 at the back. So 3 players left - I would have Wilson, James and Moore (or Johnson). That is not the same as the crazy formation we had at home Come on I’ve given you free rein and you’ve gone with the predictable James and Johnson. Who played 40 mins and were totally ineffective. Jordan James surely you credit page for that? What about Davies, Mepham, Neco, ward… all not playing for club who you brining in to replace them? Why does Page deserve credit for Jordan James? It took a suspension for him to start against Latvia, we all know Morrell would have been the starter had he not been sent off in Turkey |
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 13:34:28 GMT
Come on I’ve given you free rein and you’ve gone with the predictable James and Johnson. Who played 40 mins and were totally ineffective. Jordan James surely you credit page for that? What about Davies, Mepham, Neco, ward… all not playing for club who you brining in to replace them? Why does Page deserve credit for Jordan James? It took a suspension for him to start against Latvia, we all know Morrell would have been the starter had he not been sent off in Turkey You kidding me? He played him alongside morrell and Ampadu for Korea. Before Latvia. |
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Post by Belle Vue on Nov 19, 2023 13:38:13 GMT
Jordan James look way out of his depth yesterday
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 13:44:23 GMT
Jordan James look way out of his depth yesterday Harsh -He’s 17 We’re there any player that looked comfortable?. I thought he was one of the better players |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 13:52:16 GMT
Jordan James look way out of his depth yesterday Harsh -He’s 17 We’re there any player that looked comfortable?. I thought he was one of the better players Definitely relatively comfortable albeit average. You do not see the mistakes we were regularly starting to see from Morrell. He is a pretty low error count kind of player and is still a teenager! As stated - he would not have played against Croatia if Morrell was not suspended. |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 13:54:58 GMT
Anyone have a strong view on Dasilva?
Would he be an upgrade on Robert or Neco (at least in the near term)?
What about Huggins?
I have seen nothing of both (other than that great goal from Huggins) and so don't have a view. I just know if we continue with 5 at the back (which we look like we need) then we need our wing backs to materially improve if we are to compete as they are currently just not good enough. Neco going on loan somewhere that appreciates him would represent a good start too!
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 14:00:31 GMT
Harsh -He’s 17 We’re there any player that looked comfortable?. I thought he was one of the better players Definitely relatively comfortable albeit average. You do not see the mistakes we were regularly starting to see from Morrell. He is a pretty low error count kind of player and is still a teenager! As stated - he would not have played against Croatia if Morrell was not suspended. No you stated he would not have played against Latvia. Page recognised the gaping holes in turkey and Armenia so brought in james to test for Korea. Also sheenan but he didn’t start against Latvia did he. He solved one issue there! |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 14:06:54 GMT
Korea was a friendly and he had to find an alternative to Morrell no?
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 14:08:50 GMT
Korea was a friendly and he had to find an alternative to Morrell no? For Latvia and we did as page took a punt on jj |
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Post by hooky on Nov 19, 2023 14:15:56 GMT
Korea was a friendly and he had to find an alternative to Morrell no? For Latvia and we did as page took a punt on jj Morrell was suspended Ramsey was a disaster when he played there, and we needed solidity. He had to pick him right? I think once he put Wilson there perhaps but that did not work out well either for obvious reason Look we can argue about things forever. Would I be better? No much worse as I don't have the nous or experience. However, its pretty obvious our shape, consistency, basics, etc, are significantly worse than other teams, while we hardly make successful changes in tactics during games. Our consistency is all over the place, sometimes even within games. Page is a very poor manager at this level - period. We all know that. It is time to move on. I hope we qualify but if we do by some miracle then we will see the same coaching deficit continue ensuring we perform below our potential again and again and we will have Page in place for the last two years of his contract - which will not be a pleasant watch! |
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Post by jackanapes on Nov 19, 2023 14:27:23 GMT
I avoided coming on here yesterday because I couldn’t face all the negativity. I was already too disappointed to be burdened with everybody else’s frustration. Two things yesterday really frustrated me. The players and Page.
Firstly, the players. It’s an absolute mystery to me how you get certain games where there isn’t a single player who can execute a simple and accurate pass. It’s like golfers with the yips and it’s contagious. It’s not just lack of game time. Is it pressure? Poor focus and mental preparation? The amount of unforced errors made it almost impossible for us to win. We butchered a few counter attacks which should have seen us walk the ball into the net. Players like this get you sacked if this happens consistently.
Secondly, Page. Many people have noted his apparent lack of tactical acumen and inability to respond in-game. I reason to myself- he must have a decent understanding to be a professional, he must have people with insight around him, there must be method in the madness. To his credit we have produced excellent and tactically intelligent performances, and the Croatia game is fresh in the memory. But then we get games like yesterday. Wilson and Brooks are withdrawn, Johnson and James on, but with no apparent plan of how to link things through midfield and get the wide men involved. A must win game with Mepham on a yellow, but we persist with 5 at the back. I really don’t know what the game plan was in the second half. We seemed completely lacking in structure or purpose. Just throw people on and see what happens.
We could well qualify with Page as he does pull out performances on occasion, but it increasingly feels like a toss of a coin every time. The Ukrainian fellow has shown ability to get more out of his players than they have on oaper. He’s not a megabucks manager. If and when the time comes I hope that the FAW look for a smart and hungry coach, rather than going for any old Welsh player who fancies a punt.
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Post by quetzal on Nov 19, 2023 15:08:04 GMT
Jordan James look way out of his depth yesterday I agree but who else? Rambo injured. Dylan Levitt not for me. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 19, 2023 15:10:59 GMT
Why does Page deserve credit for Jordan James? It took a suspension for him to start against Latvia, we all know Morrell would have been the starter had he not been sent off in Turkey You kidding me? He played him alongside morrell and Ampadu for Korea. Before Latvia. Yes, because Morrell was suspended for the Latvia game and he knew he had to play someone else so he gave James an hour against Korea. This isn't difficult. He also isn't 17. |
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Post by njdragon on Nov 19, 2023 15:16:04 GMT
You kidding me? He played him alongside morrell and Ampadu for Korea. Before Latvia. Yes, because Morrell was suspended for the Latvia game and he knew he had to play someone else so he gave James an hour against Korea. This isn't difficult. He also isn't 17. So it’s pages credit, he didn’t have to play him. He tested him with morrell and amapadu. He could have stuck with sheenan but he didn’t he put jj in at sorry 19 |
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Post by quetzal on Nov 19, 2023 15:25:19 GMT
Marco Rossi the Hungarian manager I like the look of. International experience. We’ll get to tournaments under him.
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 19, 2023 15:26:54 GMT
Exactly - 3 centre backs and our wing backs (especially Conor) do not get forward much When things were going well I questioned my concern about comments from Page and the camp before the WC like 'its like playing with your mates in the park' and something which indicated that training was not that intense. That is not the preparation / the attitude you need for elite sport. Look at his back room staff. No longer any foreign coaches (Giggs had 2 originally) but instead we get 2 people connected with him from Sheffield Utd and an ex-player with no experience. What has happened to the quality of our performance since? 6 years in a set up is more than long enough when the performances have started to go downhill at speed over the past 18 months, It is not only disappointing watching Wales but it is also bloody boring given the shit way we are playing the game Again zero losses in 5 games, 2 goals conceded Yet this nitpicking about interviews, apparent attitude. I don’t think it’s pages fault, roberts and Neco can’t get a game whilst RND is seemingly missing and injured for over a year. I get the performance aspect to an extent.. the World Cup was disappointing we tried something against Armenia but these comments based on interviews where you dissect every sentence is just bizarre I really don't get the defending of him when you start your calculation half way through the campaign we've probably failed in. We've played 7, won 3, drew 2 and lost 2. That is the reality of it. You can condense it down to conveniently ignore the loses to Armenia and Turkey where we conceded 6 and had 2 players sent off if you want, but others won't. We talk about interviews as according to Page everything surrounding the playingside is going great, then it becomes obvious it isn't. He talks up an attacking coaches difference and we get lucky Armenia score for us. The press conference before Armenia says how impressive its been and then they play with 30 yards between all 3. Everything he says will be scrutinised as he can pick and choose what he releases to the press and fans in interviews and he sounds like he's selling us a used car. Everything's perfect, there's no issues, starts first time every time. If the reality of it is lads not playing for clubs tell us, or better yet tell them. Tell them to step out of the comfort zone and maximise their careers. |
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