|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 21, 2023 22:12:39 GMT
The Armenia performances messed us up. Page again doing no favours saying Armenia is a tough place to go and we would have lost it a few years ago. I don't know who he's trying to kid.
Armenia had 8 points in the group, 4 were against us. Latvia took more points off Armenia than we did. We looked 2nd best to them over the 2 matches too.
Credit to Page, he can pull a performance out when he needs to, but we have no idea against lesser teams. We need teams to give us the space to play as we cant do it ourselves. Whether we don't take them seriously or not I don't know. He will have the Playoffs, there's no need to change it before then. Hopefully 2 open matches we can exploit the space.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2023 22:34:18 GMT
It's easy to forget the random element in football. Yes, Page made mistakes in the Armenia games, especially the first, but how can you legislate for a player like Zelarayan, who has had a modest career, being world class in both games? Also, the players were very poor in both matches. Some of that is down to Page, but the players will know they didn't reach the levels they could have.
I think we should have focus on the Croatia and Turkey games, as they show what we (and Page) are capable of. If we form as well in the playoffs we will have a very good chance of making the Euros.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2023 22:40:43 GMT
There would have to be a compelling reason to remove Page before the playoffs in light of the absence of games before then. Page has done enough tonight for that compelling reason to be absent. I would be amazed if he was removed at this point. The players are clearly behind him, and that should count for a lot. Turkey had 2 shots on target tonight, one of which was a dodgy penalty. We had 4 on target, all decent efforts, and there should have been another two for the penalties not awarded.
|
|
|
|
Post by fireboy0610 on Nov 21, 2023 22:41:29 GMT
Bale was clearly the difference against Austria. We played fantastically well - Pages can take some credit for that - but the 2 world class decisive moments came from one player Ukraine we should have been behind after an hour but Wayne had an incredible game and Bale (with luck) got the decisive goal He was manager so we allowed him to take credit for his part but we always questioned why we played so bad versus the likes of Estonia (home) and Belarus (away) and Bale saved us in Belarus - Page played a dodgy Gunter past his prime and made no positive difference to the situation. Since we were embarrassing at the WC and have had 3 stinkers in this competition, 2 against Armenia. Even if you pretended Bale did not make the difference in the past - a manager should only have goodwill extended for past achievements for so long. Its now 18 months since we had a run of consistent performances - who wants to watch this 80s rubbish football for another cycle? Unless you believe our players are materially inferior to every team we lose to / have struggled against then you have to attribute a slice of blame to our manager. He keeps playing players who are not match fit - not just a couple but half the bloody team! He does not learn basic lessons and did you see the headline - I would not change anything! Well if I failed I always would want to change things if I could and that is what you need to do to learn and improve / not pretend you did everything right when you clearly did not! Providing passion and little else is a poor manager's excuse! So to some up this novel of a post When we win its the players When we lose its always Pages fault Simplistic bs Page is tactically inept. Before their dodgy penalty they had been all over us, we looked a bit tired and couldn't keep the ball, we had 3 players who would have helped us out, he brought Brooks a few minutes before which made a slight difference, by bringing Moore and D James on we would have had 2 outlets to give the turks something to think about but it still took another 10 and 14 mins to bring them on, if we had brought both players on at around 60 mins it might have been a different scoreline. This is just one example of his tactical ineptitude, it has happened too many times especially in the armenian games, this group wasn't am easy one but it also wasn't hard. If we don't get through via the play offs page should go but ateotd it's about the money and I suspect he will stay to see the rest of his 4 year contract out, an absolutely shocking decision. |
|
|
|
Post by CymruFach on Nov 21, 2023 22:43:38 GMT
Needs to go now.
Totally outthought by opposition Managers last two games in a row.
No use blaming the ref tonight.
|
|
|
|
Post by fireboy0610 on Nov 21, 2023 22:47:19 GMT
Needs to go now. Totally outthought by opposition Managers last two games in a row. No use blaming the ref tonight. Agreed re being out thought and not blaming the ref tonight even tjough he was clearly a cheat, if we had won on Saturday I might be saying something different. |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2023 22:48:03 GMT
Needs to go now. Totally outthought by opposition Managers last two games in a row. No use blaming the ref tonight. Seriously? Two stonewall penalties denied, and two other possibles, and Turkiye get a dodgy one. Of course the officiating made a huge difference tonight. And although Turkiye created a few chances second half, we also managed a couple, in spite of our obvious fatigue. Page has done enough to take us into the playoffs. After that a decision may need to be made. |
|
|
|
Post by CrackityJones on Nov 21, 2023 22:53:48 GMT
The ref was fuckin terrible
|
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 21, 2023 22:59:37 GMT
It's easy to forget the random element in football. Yes, Page made mistakes in the Armenia games, especially the first, but how can you legislate for a player like Zelarayan, who has had a modest career, being world class in both games? Also, the players were very poor in both matches. Some of that is down to Page, but the players will know they didn't reach the levels they could have. I think we should have focus on the Croatia and Turkey games, as they show what we (and Page) are capable of. If we form as well in the playoffs we will have a very good chance of making the Euros. I mean it sucks to be Page but he is responsible for the preparation, match and aftermath. If players aren't at the top of the game he has to take the blame. He chooses them in the squad, picks them in the team, put together his backroom staff to get the best out of them. How he motivates them is up to him, all we ask for is the end result to be fitting to us. |
|
|
|
Post by vvm on Nov 21, 2023 23:13:50 GMT
I think what is telling is that plan A worked really well for us tonight. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes but the difference is their manager and coaching staff identified this and made a change early on, the game shifted into Turkey's favor after and I fear Page does not have the tactical ability to react to that.
When plan A works it can be really good but it feels like Page never has a plan B, he can't make tactical changes mid game and his subs just feel like a random roll of the dice. Swap the attackers around with those on the bench and hope something sticks.
|
|
|
|
Post by dai on Nov 21, 2023 23:21:37 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljgUPtoRPMUPost match interview. On the Armenia away match - 'a couple years ago we'd have lost that match'. C'mon Rob, they are 95th in the World. Yes, rankings are somewhat flawed and there are a lot of tough games. But think before you say something man......jesus wept.
|
|
|
|
Post by zserty on Nov 21, 2023 23:31:15 GMT
I think what is telling is that plan A worked really well for us tonight. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes but the difference is their manager and coaching staff identified this and made a change early on, the game shifted into Turkey's favor after and I fear Page does not have the tactical ability to react to that. When plan A works it can be really good but it feels like Page never has a plan B, he can't make tactical changes mid game and his subs just feel like a random roll of the dice. Swap the attackers around with those on the bench and hope something sticks. Think this is a pretty accurate assessment. The one thing that always strikes me is that when the momentum is changing and the other team is getting into the game/worked us out we never make a change in personnel or shape etc to counteract what is happening in the game. |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 21, 2023 23:35:17 GMT
I think what is telling is that plan A worked really well for us tonight. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes but the difference is their manager and coaching staff identified this and made a change early on, the game shifted into Turkey's favor after and I fear Page does not have the tactical ability to react to that. When plan A works it can be really good but it feels like Page never has a plan B, he can't make tactical changes mid game and his subs just feel like a random roll of the dice. Swap the attackers around with those on the bench and hope something sticks. Think this is a pretty accurate assessment. The one thing that always strikes me is that when the momentum is changing and the other team is getting into the game/worked us out we never make a change in personnel or shape etc to counteract what is happening in the game. It's a criticism I've made of him on several occasions. However, tonight I think Page had limited options. He should have brought on Moore earlier, to give us an easy outball to relieve the pressure. Other than that I don't think there were easy options, especially with regard to the 7 defensive players. |
|
|
|
Post by surge on Nov 21, 2023 23:39:21 GMT
I think what is telling is that plan A worked really well for us tonight. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes but the difference is their manager and coaching staff identified this and made a change early on, the game shifted into Turkey's favor after and I fear Page does not have the tactical ability to react to that. When plan A works it can be really good but it feels like Page never has a plan B, he can't make tactical changes mid game and his subs just feel like a random roll of the dice. Swap the attackers around with those on the bench and hope something sticks. Think this is a pretty accurate assessment. The one thing that always strikes me is that when the momentum is changing and the other team is getting into the game/worked us out we never make a change in personnel or shape etc to counteract what is happening in the game. It might have been fair historically but it's not accurate tonight. It was fairly muted second half but we still created good chances and Turkey didn't create much at all. Is Page able to change the game? Jury's out and too many people are stuck on the Denmark game at the last Euros in which we were outdone tactically after 30 mins. |
|
|
|
Post by underwood on Nov 21, 2023 23:42:43 GMT
I think what is telling is that plan A worked really well for us tonight. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes but the difference is their manager and coaching staff identified this and made a change early on, the game shifted into Turkey's favor after and I fear Page does not have the tactical ability to react to that. When plan A works it can be really good but it feels like Page never has a plan B, he can't make tactical changes mid game and his subs just feel like a random roll of the dice. Swap the attackers around with those on the bench and hope something sticks. Think this is a pretty accurate assessment. The one thing that always strikes me is that when the momentum is changing and the other team is getting into the game/worked us out we never make a change in personnel or shape etc to counteract what is happening in the game. This is so true & what concerns me the most under Page. We went 1-0 up early at home to Armenia, but within 20 minutes we were on the back foot & the inevitable happened. Nothing was done to counteract this swing in momentum. Last Saturday, with 20 mins to go, Armenia went up a gear & again we did nothing. Tonight, 1-0 up again & bingo, same outcome. If we are fortunate to take the lead in the Play Offs, do I think Page will act to alleviate any change in momentum? You know the answer. |
|
|
|
Post by North Wales Dragon on Nov 21, 2023 23:51:41 GMT
Looks like the Euro 2016 has spoilt some of us, remember pre Bale, Ramsey and Allen when the group used to be over for us by the turn of the year think it would be mad to get rid of him now with no games until the play offs to prepare.
|
|
|
|
Post by saturn9 on Nov 21, 2023 23:56:16 GMT
Looks like the Euro 2016 has spoilt some of us, remember pre Bale, Ramsey and Allen when the group used to be over for us by the turn of the year think it would be mad to get rid of him now with no games until the play offs to prepare. To soon right now, but in time Chris Davies now at Tottenham. I know Swans were keeen on him before the Duff appointment was done and dusted. |
|
|
|
Post by majorraglan on Nov 22, 2023 9:37:18 GMT
Im not sold on either option to be honest. Osian Roberts possibly, but with some experienced support because he’s never done it as a Manager at this level. In terms of Viera, he didn’t do much in Palace and Strasbourg is a bit up and down. Granted it’s tight in Ligue 1but Strasbourg’s results aren’t great and they 15th out of 18 teams- albeit there’s a small number of points between 8th and 15th place. Option 2 - I’m defo not in favour of bringing Gunter, Ramsey or Bale in to a management team as they’ve no experience and in Amseys case still playing. I’m a proud passionate Welshman just like nearly everyone on here, but I just get this FAW thing of going for the Welsh option, you go for the right person regardless of nationality. If you had a multi million pound business, would you put an unproven person in charge or would you go for the proven leader? I like that we go for Welsh managers. It's served us very well over the last 10 years, and the fact we tend to get younger cheaper managers in means that we do have refreshing ideas when someone does come in. Speed, Coleman, Giggs, Page they've all been very different and we've had periods of success under all of them Now if we had terrible options, e.g a choice of Pulis or a foreign manager, I'd say yes let's try something different. But I think Nathan Jones, Craig Bellamy, Osian Roberts are all good viable options that mean we shouldn't need to look abroad Don't forget, we are not a well-off FA, so we can't just hire anyone. Part of the pull of our national team is that we are such a passionate nation and every passionate Welshman would love to take the job I’d prefer a Welsh person too, but for me we should always be going for the best person regardless of nationality. Manager is a key role and we should push the boat out within our financial framework to get the best we can. Success breeds success, if we qualify for a tournament we get more money which means we can spend more money. The money we earn needs to be spent very carefully. I couldn’t see a top team like Liverpool or City saying they only want a manager from their own back yard. I was listened to Call Rob on the way back from the game, the panel were unanimous in their support for Page, but in 1 part one of the panel mentioned Page being tactically out played by the Armenia manager who was very experienced and this I fear is where we’re going wrong. Page doesn’t seem to have the ability to make changes to influence a game when things are going against us, I’m not sure if he can’t see it, doesn’t have the vision or is too rigid - but it’s an issue that’s been evident on several occasions. Maybe he needs a mentor or an extra advisor. |
|
|
|
Post by njdragon on Nov 22, 2023 9:38:41 GMT
Look at this coldly Doing OK - lose 2-4 at home vs a 96th ranked team Then get back in it. Need 6 points - end up with 1 point A manager is judged on that. If we had a better alternative Page should be gone but we know he will be there until the end of the campaign in March to summarise that, there is no alternative so page is the best man for the job. You can't create a welsh manager out of thin air... that you know will do better. I think until there are realities alternatives he is the best man, last nights result showed that. Of all the talk we were unlucky to lose that one - in the end it wasn't important but what's important is the performance and no losses - we go into the plays off as an in form team now. i didnt understand the push to win at the end with ward going up top, lose that and it doesn't look so good going into the playoffs. On the flip side it does show our desire to win! |
|
|
|
Post by zserty on Nov 22, 2023 9:45:58 GMT
Think this is a pretty accurate assessment. The one thing that always strikes me is that when the momentum is changing and the other team is getting into the game/worked us out we never make a change in personnel or shape etc to counteract what is happening in the game. It might have been fair historically but it's not accurate tonight. It was fairly muted second half but we still created good chances and Turkey didn't create much at all. Is Page able to change the game? Jury's out and too many people are stuck on the Denmark game at the last Euros in which we were outdone tactically after 30 mins. Whilst i dont think Turkey were particularly good there definitely was a period in the game where we were no longer in control as we were the first 30 or so minutes. From the start of the 2nd half up to the Turkey goal we struggled to involve Johnson and to maintain quality possesion in the attacking third. (Said at the time that we could've done with changing it up). Whether that be through fresh legs on for Broadhead, I'd of brought James on as Brooks and Wilson are quite similar sometimes in the spaces they like to take up. Wouldve also gone Moore for Johnson at the same time, maybe tried to maintain a bit more possesion when kicking long from their added press. I dont think he got it massively wrong last night, just small changes that maybe a higher calibre coach wouldve tried to make. (Thats been the case for most of the tenure). |
|
|
|
Post by majorraglan on Nov 22, 2023 9:51:20 GMT
We don’t know who is out there, but I’m not convinced Page is the best man for the job. We were unlucky or unfortunate or even cheated when it came to the penalty decisions, but again last night I believe Page displayed 1 of his major failings. For the last 10 mins of the first half Türkiye were in the ascendancy and that rolled through it to the second half when they took the game by the scruff and controlled large parts of it. Page needed to counter this and do something about it, but he didn’t and his use of the subs was very poor - again. He was out manoeuvred by an opposition manager again. This isn’t the place to learn your craft which he still is - he needs to go or to bring someone in with experience who can sit on his shoulder and guide him.
Go in to the play offs as a form team…… after Armenia away and last night. I don’t think so.
|
|
|
|
Post by njdragon on Nov 22, 2023 10:02:11 GMT
We don’t know who is out there, but I’m not convinced Page is the best man for the job. We were unlucky or unfortunate or even cheated when it came to the penalty decisions, but again last night I believe Page displayed 1 of his major failings. For the last 10 mins of the first half Türkiye were in the ascendancy and that rolled through it to the second half when they took the game by the scruff and controlled large parts of it. Page needed to counter this and do something about it, but he didn’t and his use of the subs was very poor - again. He was out manoeuvred by an opposition manager again. This isn’t the place to learn your craft which he still is - he needs to go or to bring someone in with experience who can sit on his shoulder and guide him. Go in to the play offs as a form team…… after Armenia away and last night. I don’t think so. Disagree with this, Turkey were very lucky to get that penalty and that second half despite the changes from them we still had the better chances and their keeper had a good few more saves compared too what one from ward. Lets be clear, that was totally inconsistent from the ref. We are on form - thats zero losses in 6 and good results against Croatia and turkey the group winner. Plus encouraging performances in everything apart from Armenia. We rarely lose at home and the players will take confidence from this. |
|
|
|
Post by saturn9 on Nov 22, 2023 10:18:04 GMT
Hate to say it and bring his name up. I think G@@@s and Albert would have seen us qualify from this group🤨🤨
|
|
|
|
Post by vvm on Nov 22, 2023 10:18:09 GMT
Agreed that it wasn't a terrible showing from Page. Initial tactics were spot on and I do feel slightly more optimistic going into the playoffs.
I think the best course of action might be another change or addition to the coaching/analysis staff on the bench. You see the people there currently watching on ipads and discussing things but they clearly aren't passing along any useful information as it doesn't appear that we ever make informed tactical changes mid game.
I don't think even the best managers can do it all on their own, in the prem you often see managers like Klopp running down the tunnel at half time so they can consult with their analysts and make changes to adjust to the game. I'm not sure Page is getting that kind of support.
|
|
|
|
Post by njdragon on Nov 22, 2023 10:29:16 GMT
Agreed that it wasn't a terrible showing from Page. Initial tactics were spot on and I do feel slightly more optimistic going into the playoffs. I think the best course of action might be another change or addition to the coaching/analysis staff on the bench. You see the people there currently watching on ipads and discussing things but they clearly aren't passing along any useful information as it doesn't appear that we ever make informed tactical changes mid game. I don't think even the best managers can do it all on their own, in the prem you often see managers like Klopp running down the tunnel at half time so they can consult with their analysts and make changes to adjust to the game. I'm not sure Page is getting that kind of support. Was listening to nathan blake on the way home alluding to that. Saying the FAW must have the right coaches in place and be prepared to spend the money at all levels. Discussed a jobs for the boys mentality which to be fair we've always had. |
|
|
|
Post by morg on Nov 22, 2023 10:38:08 GMT
Agreed that it wasn't a terrible showing from Page. Initial tactics were spot on and I do feel slightly more optimistic going into the playoffs. I think the best course of action might be another change or addition to the coaching/analysis staff on the bench. You see the people there currently watching on ipads and discussing things but they clearly aren't passing along any useful information as it doesn't appear that we ever make informed tactical changes mid game. I don't think even the best managers can do it all on their own, in the prem you often see managers like Klopp running down the tunnel at half time so they can consult with their analysts and make changes to adjust to the game. I'm not sure Page is getting that kind of support. Was listening to nathan blake on the way home alluding to that. Saying the FAW must have the right coaches in place and be prepared to spend the money at all levels. Discussed a jobs for the boys mentality which to be fair we've always had. I never/hardly ever see Page in conversation with the other coaches? (There's enough of them). He looks isolated and the rest are silent spectators. Compare to someone like Pep (yeah I know) and he's in constant dialogue. |
|
|
|
Post by majorraglan on Nov 22, 2023 10:46:44 GMT
Agreed that it wasn't a terrible showing from Page. Initial tactics were spot on and I do feel slightly more optimistic going into the playoffs. I think the best course of action might be another change or addition to the coaching/analysis staff on the bench. You see the people there currently watching on ipads and discussing things but they clearly aren't passing along any useful information as it doesn't appear that we ever make informed tactical changes mid game. I don't think even the best managers can do it all on their own, in the prem you often see managers like Klopp running down the tunnel at half time so they can consult with their analysts and make changes to adjust to the game. I'm not sure Page is getting that kind of support. Was listening to nathan blake on the way home alluding to that. Saying the FAW must have the right coaches in place and be prepared to spend the money at all levels. Discussed a jobs for the boys mentality which to be fair we've always had. 100% correct. Jobs for the boys, nepotism are recipes for disaster, always look for the right person for the job. If that’s someone from the inside then great, if not then it’s a bad choice. We only have to look at history to see that. |
|
|
|
Post by njdragon on Nov 22, 2023 10:51:42 GMT
Was listening to nathan blake on the way home alluding to that. Saying the FAW must have the right coaches in place and be prepared to spend the money at all levels. Discussed a jobs for the boys mentality which to be fair we've always had. 100% correct. Jobs for the boys, nepotism are recipes for disaster, always look for the right person for the job. If that’s someone from the inside then great, if not then it’s a bad choice. We only have to look at history to see that. to be fair to giggs he brought in Albert Stuivenberg and also speed brough in Raymond Verheijen plus Osian. All of them could be seen on the touchline constantly where as page looks a lone figure. |
|
|
|
Post by 1gwaunview on Nov 22, 2023 10:54:45 GMT
Bring Osian back in some capacity, even as next coach, but not before play-offs.
|
|
|
|
Post by fireboy0610 on Nov 22, 2023 11:15:58 GMT
Bring Osian back in some capacity, even as next coach, but not before play-offs. This ^ Osian has a fantastic football brain, won't cost the earth and more importantly is a passionate welshman. |
|
