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Post by dai on Nov 22, 2023 11:31:54 GMT
Was listening to nathan blake on the way home alluding to that. Saying the FAW must have the right coaches in place and be prepared to spend the money at all levels. Discussed a jobs for the boys mentality which to be fair we've always had. 100% correct. Jobs for the boys, nepotism are recipes for disaster, always look for the right person for the job. If that’s someone from the inside then great, if not then it’s a bad choice. We only have to look at history to see that. If you dig around on google, you will find that all of the coaches in the current setup have links to Page from previous jobs. These sort of things happen in football - assistants follow managers around etc, however I'm concerned that there is a serious jobs for the boys attitude going on atm. I still don't believe Gunter was a wise choice. He had only just retired. What experience has he got in coaching an international side? Alan Knill is Page's friend and has a very modest managerial record. Jack Lester was also an ex-team mate and friend of Page from playing days. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Nov 22, 2023 13:01:09 GMT
I like that we go for Welsh managers. It's served us very well over the last 10 years, and the fact we tend to get younger cheaper managers in means that we do have refreshing ideas when someone does come in. Speed, Coleman, Giggs, Page they've all been very different and we've had periods of success under all of them Now if we had terrible options, e.g a choice of Pulis or a foreign manager, I'd say yes let's try something different. But I think Nathan Jones, Craig Bellamy, Osian Roberts are all good viable options that mean we shouldn't need to look abroad Don't forget, we are not a well-off FA, so we can't just hire anyone. Part of the pull of our national team is that we are such a passionate nation and every passionate Welshman would love to take the job I’d prefer a Welsh person too, but for me we should always be going for the best person regardless of nationality. Manager is a key role and we should push the boat out within our financial framework to get the best we can. Success breeds success, if we qualify for a tournament we get more money which means we can spend more money. The money we earn needs to be spent very carefully. I couldn’t see a top team like Liverpool or City saying they only want a manager from their own back yard. I was listened to Call Rob on the way back from the game, the panel were unanimous in their support for Page, but in 1 part one of the panel mentioned Page being tactically out played by the Armenia manager who was very experienced and this I fear is where we’re going wrong. Page doesn’t seem to have the ability to make changes to influence a game when things are going against us, I’m not sure if he can’t see it, doesn’t have the vision or is too rigid - but it’s an issue that’s been evident on several occasions. Maybe he needs a mentor or an extra advisor. The FAW did push the boat out within their financial framework when they hired Giggs. And then they had to continue to pay his wages whilst he was on leave and then pay the wages of a temporary Manager (Page) on top of that. There income was reduced during Covid therefore 'pushing the boat out' type wages for the FAW is now around a price of a lower league Manager (i.e. Page). No half decent Manager is going to work for £250k pa. Alternatively they get a Welshman that is willing to do it for a reduced rate. Qualification for tournaments aren't as profitable as people think. There are huge expenses in tournament football. A football association only usually makes money from the knockout stages onwards. I do find the media support for Page to be rather odd, particularly as it seems that it is almost universally accepted that Page is tactically lacking. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 22, 2023 13:07:01 GMT
"I do find the media support for Page to be rather odd, particularly as it seems that it is almost universally accepted that Page is tactically lacking."
They're bound to support him in public even if they have reservations in private. You have to be all in positive or negative if you're in the media bubble. On balance it's not surprising at the support, given the encouraging performances against Croatia and Turkiye.
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Post by morg on Nov 22, 2023 13:07:44 GMT
Bring Osian back in some capacity, even as next coach, but not before play-offs. This ^ Osian has a fantastic football brain, won't cost the earth and more importantly is a passionate welshman. At one stage, he seemed to have a kind of director of football role overseeing everything. He's available, he's one of our own, sound tactician, media savvy and with no discernible baggage. No brainer for me to get him involved in some capacity in a position of influence. |
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Post by zserty on Nov 22, 2023 17:12:50 GMT
100% correct. Jobs for the boys, nepotism are recipes for disaster, always look for the right person for the job. If that’s someone from the inside then great, if not then it’s a bad choice. We only have to look at history to see that. to be fair to giggs he brought in Albert Stuivenberg and also speed brough in Raymond Verheijen plus Osian. All of them could be seen on the touchline constantly where as page looks a lone figure. This is a very interesting point, one that i would also question. Has Page got the right staff around him. He's brought in Knill and Lester both of whom have very below par managerial records along with Gunter as some form of coach. Are any of them good enough to advise Page to make a change or to point things out? Maybe that is what we need? |
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iwlos
steve evans
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Post by iwlos on Nov 22, 2023 17:30:37 GMT
Paul Mullin revealed that he only discovered he was on stand by for the Cymru vs Gibraltar friendly in Wxm via text messages from friends, & had no communication from Rob Page about it.
"Maybe he put me on the list so he didn't have 10k pissed off Wrexham fans at that game!"
Just seen the above tweet from fearless in devotion, it speaks volumes regarding Page, unprofessional and don't get me started on his defeatist drivel. A clean slate is needed post Euro 2024.
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Post by twofootedtackle on Nov 22, 2023 17:43:17 GMT
It’s the same story during a game, just like the Armenia games once the Turkey coach tweaked his shape and made subs. Page didn’t have an answer.
The second half we looked devoid of ideas and completely flat, dropping deeper and deeper.
We’re in desperate need of an experienced and shrewd coach.
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Post by twofootedtackle on Nov 22, 2023 17:44:41 GMT
to be fair to giggs he brought in Albert Stuivenberg and also speed brough in Raymond Verheijen plus Osian. All of them could be seen on the touchline constantly where as page looks a lone figure. This is a very interesting point, one that i would also question. Has Page got the right staff around him. He's brought in Knill and Lester both of whom have very below par managerial records along with Gunter as some form of coach. Are any of them good enough to advise Page to make a change or to point things out? Maybe that is what we need? This definitely can’t be ignored. All welsh managers in recent years have had very good assistants. Page has a Sheffield united old boy club. Every single one of them has a relegation under their belt. We also can’t overlook the fact that Ramsay left so quickly. |
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Post by iantov on Nov 22, 2023 18:47:11 GMT
It’s the same story during a game, just like the Armenia games once the Turkey coach tweaked his shape and made subs. Page didn’t have an answer. The second half we looked devoid of ideas and completely flat, dropping deeper and deeper. We’re in desperate need of an experienced and shrewd coach. Happens very often. The opposition coach quickly recognises Wales' strengths/weaknesses aswell as his own teams and then switches things up where subsequently, those tweaks remain invariably unanswered. In last nights game, Montella sub'd Omur (who I thought was starting to look dangerous) on 33 mins and each time he made a substitution they grew into the game and looked more and more dangerous. I would have bet on our first sub coming around 60 mins...nailed on. Other substitutions came 10 mins too late after they scored where there should have been a clear, pre-game, defined plan already in place should this situation had arisen. Despite some faults, I have soft spot for Page and desperately want to see him do well but there is clear difference in coaches and also supporting staff aswell. He needs Osian (spoke a lot of sense in his commentary and is obviously experienced at this level) or an Osian equivalent. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Nov 22, 2023 18:53:16 GMT
I like that we go for Welsh managers. It's served us very well over the last 10 years, and the fact we tend to get younger cheaper managers in means that we do have refreshing ideas when someone does come in. Speed, Coleman, Giggs, Page they've all been very different and we've had periods of success under all of them Now if we had terrible options, e.g a choice of Pulis or a foreign manager, I'd say yes let's try something different. But I think Nathan Jones, Craig Bellamy, Osian Roberts are all good viable options that mean we shouldn't need to look abroadDon't forget, we are not a well-off FA, so we can't just hire anyone. Part of the pull of our national team is that we are such a passionate nation and every passionate Welshman would love to take the job Not sure I'd concur they are all viable options honestly. I see Nathan Jones' name popping up a lot. He was on Radio Wales last night covering the game. No disrespect to him but to put it mildly he doesn't sound like the brightest of individuals. He kept banging on about Bale and Ramsey like it's still 2019, safe to say he doesn't actually follow Welsh football hence he couldn't offer any more insight that that. Don't want him anywhere near the national setup frankly. Bellamy?...well we know he's going to fall out with people because of how he is and I'm not sure that's the kind of thing we want either. Just got to be careful what you wish for sometimes. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 22, 2023 19:29:59 GMT
For all their possession second half Turkiye only fashioned one good chance, the header that went straight at Ward. There was also that superb individual strike that clipped the bar, but if those go in you just stand and applaud.
Second half we dropped deep from the off, but kept the same 3-4-2-1 that worked so well in the first half. I imagine that was intentional, to conserve energy, given the 3 day turnaround. The only reason it didn't work was down to a dubious refereeing decision, where the ball was overhit.
After the the Turkiye equaliser Page was too slow to make the changes. Moore should have had 20 minutes at least. However the quality of our passing was poor second half, with fatigue being a factor.
I don't think the Turkish manager did anything particularly clever, or outsmarted Page. We just ran out of puff.
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Post by gwernybwch on Nov 22, 2023 20:29:43 GMT
"I do find the media support for Page to be rather odd, particularly as it seems that it is almost universally accepted that Page is tactically lacking." They're bound to support him in public even if they have reservations in private. You have to be all in positive or negative if you're in the media bubble. On balance it's not surprising at the support, given the encouraging performances against Croatia and Turkiye. There was a time when the media have been critical of the Manager. BBC Wales allowed Tosh to have a rant at the tactics - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/36335486Bananaman was often critical of Cookie. I remember one episode of EJFOF which was reflecting many fans' general view on Giggs and in what appeared to be his particular his inability to find a working system. Maybe it is more a reflection on how the media works nowadays; those that rock the boat will soon find themselves out in the cold. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 22, 2023 20:39:32 GMT
It’s the same story during a game, just like the Armenia games once the Turkey coach tweaked his shape and made subs. Page didn’t have an answer. The second half we looked devoid of ideas and completely flat, dropping deeper and deeper. We’re in desperate need of an experienced and shrewd coach. Happens very often. The opposition coach quickly recognises Wales' strengths/weaknesses aswell as his own teams and then switches things up where subsequently, those tweaks remain invariably unanswered. In last nights game, Montella sub'd Omur (who I thought was starting to look dangerous) on 33 mins and each time he made a substitution they grew into the game and looked more and more dangerous. I would have bet on our first sub coming around 60 mins...nailed on. Other substitutions came 10 mins too late after they scored where there should have been a clear, pre-game, defined plan already in place should this situation had arisen.Despite some faults, I have soft spot for Page and desperately want to see him do well but there is clear difference in coaches and also supporting staff aswell. He needs Osian (spoke a lot of sense in his commentary and is obviously experienced at this level) or an Osian equivalent. Not only that, but he made the baffling decision to bring James on and wait a couple of minutes to bring Kieffer on, leaving us with no substitution windows for the rest of the game having used just 3 of the 5 |
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Post by iot on Nov 22, 2023 20:40:59 GMT
I like that we go for Welsh managers. It's served us very well over the last 10 years, and the fact we tend to get younger cheaper managers in means that we do have refreshing ideas when someone does come in. Speed, Coleman, Giggs, Page they've all been very different and we've had periods of success under all of them Now if we had terrible options, e.g a choice of Pulis or a foreign manager, I'd say yes let's try something different. But I think Nathan Jones, Craig Bellamy, Osian Roberts are all good viable options that mean we shouldn't need to look abroadDon't forget, we are not a well-off FA, so we can't just hire anyone. Part of the pull of our national team is that we are such a passionate nation and every passionate Welshman would love to take the job Not sure I'd concur they are all viable options honestly. I see Nathan Jones' name popping up a lot. He was on Radio Wales last night covering the game. No disrespect to him but to put it mildly he doesn't sound like the brightest of individuals. He kept banging on about Bale and Ramsey like it's still 2019, safe to say he doesn't actually follow Welsh football hence he couldn't offer any more insight that that. Don't want him anywhere near the national setup frankly. Bellamy?...well we know he's going to fall out with people because of how he is and I'm not sure that's the kind of thing we want either. Just got to be careful what you wish for sometimes. It's a shame to hear that about Jones after the fantastic work done at Luton. I was hoping that he could be an option for us now that his reputation is damaged at club level (and thus attainable for us), but I know very little of him and if he comes across as not the brightest or knowledgeable about Welsh football, probably best to stay clear! Disagree on Bellamy, he's a real enigma but I think he's capable of doing something special. He hasn't fallen out with anyone in all those years at Anderlecht and Burnley, and Kompany took him to Burnley with him, so I don't think that's a fair comment. He seems to have mellowed a lot since retiring. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 22, 2023 21:16:47 GMT
For all their possession second half Turkiye only fashioned one good chance, the header that went straight at Ward. There was also that superb individual strike that clipped the bar, but if those go in you just stand and applaud. Second half we dropped deep from the off, but kept the same 3-4-2-1 that worked so well in the first half. I imagine that was intentional, to conserve energy, given the 3 day turnaround. The only reason it didn't work was down to a dubious refereeing decision, where the ball was overhit. After the the Turkiye equaliser Page was too slow to make the changes. Moore should have had 20 minutes at least. However the quality of our passing was poor second half, with fatigue being a factor. I don't think the Turkish manager did anything particularly clever, or outsmarted Page. We just ran out of puff. The Turkey manager realised early on that they were 2nd best and whilst they took the keeper off he also took off their attacking midfielder and replaced him with the number 11 Yazici, who I thought was their best player for the rest of the game. When he came on and started dropping deep they started controlling possession more and were getting up the pitch by the end of the 2nd half That continued in the 2nd half too. We still looked threatening on the break, but that change by their manager was bold and gave the Turks a foothold in the game. They still got lucky in the end but that did impact the game imo |
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Post by majorraglan on Nov 22, 2023 22:07:18 GMT
100% correct. Jobs for the boys, nepotism are recipes for disaster, always look for the right person for the job. If that’s someone from the inside then great, if not then it’s a bad choice. We only have to look at history to see that. If you dig around on google, you will find that all of the coaches in the current setup have links to Page from previous jobs. These sort of things happen in football - assistants follow managers around etc, however I'm concerned that there is a serious jobs for the boys attitude going on atm. I still don't believe Gunter was a wise choice. He had only just retired. What experience has he got in coaching an international side? Alan Knill is Page's friend and has a very modest managerial record. Jack Lester was also an ex-team mate and friend of Page from playing days. 100% agree with this. He should be looking to bring in an experienced shrewd old head who can offer a different perspective and advice as required and needed. Gunter - great servant to Wales but part of the management team at this level - crackers. I also question the FAW judgement on this, if there is any substance to the Mooney Kean comments earlier this year, why didn’t Mooney step in and insist Page look for a proven assistant? Someone posted about Giggs bringing in an overseas coach, maybe Page doesn’t have the contacts because he’s not operated at the same level as Giggs, Speed and Coleman. |
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Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 22, 2023 22:22:43 GMT
Not sure I'd concur they are all viable options honestly. I see Nathan Jones' name popping up a lot. He was on Radio Wales last night covering the game. No disrespect to him but to put it mildly he doesn't sound like the brightest of individuals. He kept banging on about Bale and Ramsey like it's still 2019, safe to say he doesn't actually follow Welsh football hence he couldn't offer any more insight that that. Don't want him anywhere near the national setup frankly. Bellamy?...well we know he's going to fall out with people because of how he is and I'm not sure that's the kind of thing we want either. Just got to be careful what you wish for sometimes. It's a shame to hear that about Jones after the fantastic work done at Luton. I was hoping that he could be an option for us now that his reputation is damaged at club level (and thus attainable for us), but I know very little of him and if he comes across as not the brightest or knowledgeable about Welsh football, probably best to stay clear! Disagree on Bellamy, he's a real enigma but I think he's capable of doing something special. He hasn't fallen out with anyone in all those years at Anderlecht and Burnley, and Kompany took him to Burnley with him, so I don't think that's a fair comment. He seems to have mellowed a lot since retiring. I have never heard anything come out of Nathan Jones' mouth that was even vaguely insightful. And he's a PR disaster waiting to happen. Why anyone would think he might be our next manager is beyond me. |
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Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 22, 2023 22:32:34 GMT
For all their possession second half Turkiye only fashioned one good chance, the header that went straight at Ward. There was also that superb individual strike that clipped the bar, but if those go in you just stand and applaud. Second half we dropped deep from the off, but kept the same 3-4-2-1 that worked so well in the first half. I imagine that was intentional, to conserve energy, given the 3 day turnaround. The only reason it didn't work was down to a dubious refereeing decision, where the ball was overhit. After the the Turkiye equaliser Page was too slow to make the changes. Moore should have had 20 minutes at least. However the quality of our passing was poor second half, with fatigue being a factor. I don't think the Turkish manager did anything particularly clever, or outsmarted Page. We just ran out of puff. The Turkey manager realised early on that they were 2nd best and whilst they took the keeper off he also took off their attacking midfielder and replaced him with the number 11 Yazici, who I thought was their best player for the rest of the game. When he came on and started dropping deep they started controlling possession more and were getting up the pitch by the end of the 2nd half That continued in the 2nd half too. We still looked threatening on the break, but that change by their manager was bold and gave the Turks a foothold in the game. They still got lucky in the end but that did impact the game imo Bringing on the number 11 after only 30 minutes or so was a bold move and not one Page would ever have made. But it worked. He showed a level of quality and directness that had been missing from their game until that point and it seemed to give the whole team a lift. |
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Post by iot on Nov 22, 2023 23:14:13 GMT
The Turkey manager realised early on that they were 2nd best and whilst they took the keeper off he also took off their attacking midfielder and replaced him with the number 11 Yazici, who I thought was their best player for the rest of the game. When he came on and started dropping deep they started controlling possession more and were getting up the pitch by the end of the 2nd half That continued in the 2nd half too. We still looked threatening on the break, but that change by their manager was bold and gave the Turks a foothold in the game. They still got lucky in the end but that did impact the game imo Bringing on the number 11 after only 30 minutes or so was a bold move and not one Page would ever have made. But it worked. He showed a level of quality and directness that had been missing from their game until that point and it seemed to give the whole team a lift. Think some of you guys may have had the wrong end of the stick on this. The Sgorio commentators seemed to think the two subs were injury-related, not tactical. And the guy that went off made no complaints, as surely he would if it wasn't injury related. I think it's a fair criticism of Page, but also exaggerated. I can think of a few instances where he has made changes very early on - this last Saturday being a good example. It didn't work on that occasion, nor did it work when he made the double sub to bring DJ and Brennan on against Iran and switched to a 442, but it shows that he has been prepared to make bold changes. At other times it has worked, such as bringing Moore on at half time against the USA, and Wilson on to play as an 8 instead of Morrell in Prague. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 22, 2023 23:23:41 GMT
Fair points, although bringing on Moore in the USA game was blindingly obvious. So much so, the question is, why didn't he make that change before halftime, given the extent if the USAs dominance? We might even have won the game had he done so.
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Post by iantov on Nov 23, 2023 3:42:54 GMT
Bringing on the number 11 after only 30 minutes or so was a bold move and not one Page would ever have made. But it worked. He showed a level of quality and directness that had been missing from their game until that point and it seemed to give the whole team a lift. Think some of you guys may have had the wrong end of the stick on this. The Sgorio commentators seemed to think the two subs were injury-related, not tactical. And the guy that went off made no complaints, as surely he would if it wasn't injury related. I think it's a fair criticism of Page, but also exaggerated. I can think of a few instances where he has made changes very early on - this last Saturday being a good example. It didn't work on that occasion, nor did it work when he made the double sub to bring DJ and Brennan on against Iran and switched to a 442, but it shows that he has been prepared to make bold changes. At other times it has worked, such as bringing Moore on at half time against the USA, and Wilson on to play as an 8 instead of Morrell in Prague. The keeper was injured for sure but Yazici for Omur was definitely tactical in my opinion. You could see the look of surprise on Omur's face as he walked off behind the goal. He may have been completely professional about the matter and understood any reasoning behind the change but I thought at the time that it was definitely tactical and not injury related. It also seemed to set the tone for the rest of Montella's substitutions on the night. |
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Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 23, 2023 7:56:19 GMT
Think some of you guys may have had the wrong end of the stick on this. The Sgorio commentators seemed to think the two subs were injury-related, not tactical. And the guy that went off made no complaints, as surely he would if it wasn't injury related. I think it's a fair criticism of Page, but also exaggerated. I can think of a few instances where he has made changes very early on - this last Saturday being a good example. It didn't work on that occasion, nor did it work when he made the double sub to bring DJ and Brennan on against Iran and switched to a 442, but it shows that he has been prepared to make bold changes. At other times it has worked, such as bringing Moore on at half time against the USA, and Wilson on to play as an 8 instead of Morrell in Prague. The keeper was injured for sure but Yazici for Omur was definitely tactical in my opinion. You could see the look of surprise on Omur's face as he walked off behind the goal. He may have been completely professional about the matter and understood any reasoning behind the change but I thought at the time that it was definitely tactical and not injury related. It also seemed to set the tone for the rest of Montella's substitutions on the night. There was nothing to indicate that the guy being replaced was injured. He looked fine walking off and around the margins of the pitch, if a little disconsolate. The Sgorio commentators were making assumptions I suspect on the basis that they rarely see a tactical substitution that early in a game. With regard to the Armenia game, Page's decision to bring on Brennan a few minutes into the second half rather than at half time seemed pretty daft to me. He unnecessarily used up one of his substitution windows thus limiting his options in the later stages of the game. |
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Post by zserty on Nov 23, 2023 9:57:14 GMT
This is a very interesting point, one that i would also question. Has Page got the right staff around him. He's brought in Knill and Lester both of whom have very below par managerial records along with Gunter as some form of coach. Are any of them good enough to advise Page to make a change or to point things out? Maybe that is what we need? This definitely can’t be ignored. All welsh managers in recent years have had very good assistants. Page has a Sheffield united old boy club. Every single one of them has a relegation under their belt. We also can’t overlook the fact that Ramsay left so quickly. The other side of the coin would be that they would all seem to have been brought in as Pages choice due to their relationship with him. So in effect he has brought in his team, which just so happens to be well below par. |
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llyn
the carls
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Post by llyn on Nov 23, 2023 15:33:02 GMT
The play off draw is as good as we could have hoped for. It also means that if we don't at the very least almost get through, Page will be hanging on to his job or gone soon after. I say this as someone who has not been calling for him to go.
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majid
steve evans
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Post by majid on Nov 23, 2023 16:24:01 GMT
I wouldn't mind the cronyism and jobs for the boys stuff if Page was doing well.
I think it was Sam Vokes who said he knows all these players inside out from working with them through the age groups. Fair enough, but why can't he get them to play two good games in a row then?
A nice enough boy, but out of his depth.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 23, 2023 16:31:55 GMT
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Post by iot on Nov 23, 2023 18:05:27 GMT
Pretty sure Moore will be off to Cardiff. Wouldn't be surprised if Neco got a loan move to the Championship. Really can't see Ward moving, the money he's on is probably too good and he knows he won't be able to command a similar salary elsewhere. |
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Post by majorraglan on Nov 23, 2023 18:22:54 GMT
"I do find the media support for Page to be rather odd, particularly as it seems that it is almost universally accepted that Page is tactically lacking." They're bound to support him in public even if they have reservations in private. You have to be all in positive or negative if you're in the media bubble. On balance it's not surprising at the support, given the encouraging performances against Croatia and Turkiye. 100%. Wales is a small place, they can’t afford to bite the hand that feeds them. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 27, 2023 9:19:18 GMT
Having failed to qualify from a great opportunity how confident are people feeling about Page getting us over the line with 2 HOME games?
My fear has always been a proper plan B ( even a plan C) when things are going wrong. This has always been Pages Achilles heel
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Post by fireboy0610 on Nov 27, 2023 11:31:02 GMT
Having failed to qualify from a great opportunity how confident are people feeling about Page getting us over the line with 2 HOME games? My fear has always been a proper plan B ( even a plan C) when things are going wrong. This has always been Pages Achilles heel It has happened alot recently, Latvia at home and away, Croatia at home and Turkey at home, all games we were leading by a single goal, its clear he has no idea on when to make substitutions, he has people around him to help, why can't they see when players are tiring or the system isn't working? In all the games mentioned the opposition manager has made subs which has put them on the front foot, if page doesnt wise up we won't be playing a second game in March. |
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