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Post by zenith on May 27, 2017 15:05:22 GMT
During the Euro 2016 campaign he managed to make 2 out of 10 games - the first in Andorra and the last a few months later against Belgium at their place, both in 2014. He was injured for most of the campaign I seem to recall, however, he managed to make 25 appearances for Newcastle in the 2014/15 season and 23 appearances in the 2015/16 season.
He came on against Holland in November 2015 and didn't make the Northern Ireland/Ukraine double header in the March. He was on the bench against Sweden in the game before the Euro's along with Huws and Burns who didn't make the squad.
So really, it is only since September 2016 that he's been in back-to-back squads. By that time, there was not really any reason to change things around, until arguably Serbia at home. He missed the Ireland game in March through "injury" and has now withdrawn just before the game that we really needed strength at the back.
It doesn't look great when I put it like that, does it?
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Post by cymroircarn on May 27, 2017 16:00:30 GMT
If frustration is the motivating factor, then surely now would be the moment that Dummett would want to write that wrong given Taylor is suspended for the next games. Instead Dummett has opted to drop out at a time when Wales need him the most. This has been coming for a long time, Dummett is one of those players who have used Wales for promoting their club profile and themselves as an asset. He consistently didn't turn up for u21 internationals either. Dummett probably doesn't fancy Wales's chances of qualifying so he probably thinking the next tournament Wales could qualify for would be in three years time. He'll be 28 at the start of that season, so his club career and earnings will be settled by then. If Coleman has made any mistakes, then it's probably in accommodating non committal players like this too much. Not by calling them up all the time to whisper sweet nothings and beg them to play for Wales. But in truth, there's no blame to be laid at Cookie's door at all. Look at how brilliantly he turned around the Collins situation. And Collins has been a super servant since, even though he's only had a bit part to play. You can't 100% know players like Dummett leave you in the lurch until they do. In Dummett's case, at the most crucial time possible. Not a guy you want with you in the trenches. I'm with you Otto. I'm surprised at the support he has on here. |
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Post by marsvolta on May 27, 2017 16:03:16 GMT
During the Euro 2016 campaign he managed to make 2 out of 10 games - the first in Andorra and the last a few months later against Belgium at their place, both in 2014. He was injured for most of the campaign I seem to recall, however, he managed to make 25 appearances for Newcastle in the 2014/15 season and 23 appearances in the 2015/16 season. He came on against Holland in November 2015 and didn't make the Northern Ireland/Ukraine double header in the March. He was on the bench against Sweden in the game before the Euro's along with Huws and Burns who didn't make the squad. So really, it is only since September 2016 that he's been in back-to-back squads. By that time, there was not really any reason to change things around, until arguably Serbia at home. He missed the Ireland game in March through "injury" and has now withdrawn just before the game that we really needed strength at the back. It doesn't look great when I put it like that, does it? Exactly. The irony is, if he had pulled out of this game through another 'injury', people will be pointing out that he was fit enough for Newcastle but not fit enough for Wales.But as he has retired, everyone is saying that Coleman should have picked him despite his poor attendance record. I'd rather a fully committed set of full backs like Davies, Gunter and ,yes, even Taylor than a half hearted Dummett. |
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Post by robin1864 on May 27, 2017 18:36:26 GMT
He's a fringe Geordie who has probably never visited Wales prior to his call-up, why did anyone ever expect him to be fully on board?
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Post by alarch on May 27, 2017 20:51:18 GMT
It's not difficult to find valid reasons for criticising Dummett in this - but that doesn't validate ignoring the man-management issues that situations like this raise. It is worth noting that Dummett has explicitly stated that he hasn't retired - and it would be surprising if some sort of spat with Coleman hasn't occurred - considering that the account that both individuals gave of Dummett's status were completely at odds with one another.
It's a tricky job being a manager, especially an international manager with so few games for players to be involved with. But with such a shallow squad, man-management is a major part of the job description, to ensure that we aren't losing players needlessly. Dummett is an easy obvious target for fans who obviously put a premium on loyalty to the cause, but if we want to prosper long-term we have to look beyond such narrow considerations and see the bigger picture.
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Post by iot on May 27, 2017 22:32:45 GMT
It's not difficult to find valid reasons for criticising Dummett in this - but that doesn't validate ignoring the man-management issues that situations like this raise. It is worth noting that Dummett has explicitly stated that he hasn't retired - and it would be surprising if some sort of spat with Coleman hasn't occurred - considering that the account that both individuals gave of Dummett's status were completely at odds with one another. It's a tricky job being a manager, especially an international manager with so few games for players to be involved with. But with such a shallow squad, man-management is a major part of the job description, to ensure that we aren't losing players needlessly. Dummett is an easy obvious target for fans who obviously put a premium on loyalty to the cause, but if we want to prosper long-term we have to look beyond such narrow considerations and see the bigger picture. Sorry, but I don't think you have a strong argument here at all. Firstly, as others have pointed out, some of the best managers in the world have fallen out with their players. It's inevitable in football. Secondly, Coleman has only ever selected what he's believed to be the strongest side for each game - why would he do anything different? Are you suggesting he should have selected Dummett in certain competitive games simply to buy his loyalty? Is that part of the man-management charm offensive you propose? If not, what else should Coleman have done? As I've said previously, I don't blame Dummett at all. He's Newcastle born and bred and only qualifies for Wales through a grandparent I believe? Obviously we have a few others who are eligible in the same way, but they seem to have embraced their Welsh heritage - there's no one more committed than big Ash and Woodburn has recently came out with very encouraging noises too. Dummett, on the other hand, has never given the impression his heart is fully in it. I suspect he only turned up for us because he knew he'd never be good enough for England and wanted to play international football, or thought it would be good for his career. We should not bend over backwards to bribe players who aren't fussed about playing for us, to come on board. |
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Post by alarch on May 27, 2017 23:39:52 GMT
That's pretty speculative stuff about Dummett's motivation. It might have more credence if it wasn't for the spat with Collins. But it's more than that - it also has a lot to do with what we know about Coleman's style. The plus side is that he's generated a great club ethos, but on the downside it must seem a bit cliquey for players on the outside trying to break in. It's a very difficult juggling act for sure, but Coleman can be abrasive and it's not hard to see why players, we can ill afford to lose from our squad, can take umbrage. The whole situation doesn't reflect well on Dummett, but to think that Coleman isn't tainted by these squabbles is take a rose-tinted view of things.
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Post by wirralwelsh on May 28, 2017 2:23:57 GMT
That's pretty speculative stuff about Dummett's motivation. It might have more credence if it wasn't for the spat with Collins. But it's more than that - it also has a lot to do with what we know about Coleman's style. The plus side is that he's generated a great club ethos, but on the downside it must seem a bit cliquey for players on the outside trying to break in. It's a very difficult juggling act for sure, but Coleman can be abrasive and it's not hard to see why players, we can ill afford to lose from our squad, can take umbrage. The whole situation doesn't reflect well on Dummett, but to think that Coleman isn't tainted by these squabbles is take a rose-tinted view of things. I think we can well afford to cope without a mediocre talent such as Dummett. He's got no more excuse really to turn his nose up at a call up than any other player that isn't a first choice for their national team. 'I'm tired after a long season' doesn't cut it, his season's no longer than any other players and its not just some meaningless friendly we're talking about here. He's got plenty of previous for this and unlike Giggs he's really not talented enough to pick and choose when he feels like it is worth his time to make himself available. He must realistically know that Coleman is not likely to select him again. |
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Post by cymroircarn on May 28, 2017 8:02:17 GMT
For me the main argument against Dummett is the timing.
Taylor is out so this was his chance but what does he do? Gets his agent to call Coleman to say he is not available.
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Post by zenith on May 28, 2017 8:08:21 GMT
A couple of stats for our game consistent players (games played in all competitions):
Watkins - 45
Bradshaw - 45
Dummett - 46
Chester - 51
Lockyer - 51
Edwards - 52
Gunter - 56 and counting
Paul, you are too tired? Take a look at Chris Gunter because he puts you to shame! There's a reason why he starts every game for us, something called hard work 👍🏻
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Post by marsvolta on May 28, 2017 10:18:15 GMT
What would happen if Newcastle were playing in the Play-off final tomorrow?
Would he still be injured? Would he still want to spend the time with his family? Would his fatigue disappear?
I think we all know the answer.
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Post by wxmjames on May 28, 2017 22:51:45 GMT
A couple of stats for our game consistent players (games played in all competitions): Watkins - 45 Bradshaw - 45 Dummett - 46 Chester - 51 Lockyer - 51 Edwards - 52 Gunter - 56 and counting Paul, you are too tired? Take a look at Chris Gunter because he puts you to shame! There's a reason why he starts every game for us, something called hard work 👍🏻 Yeah but Gunter is another level. The man would play for Wales or Reading with a broken leg if he could. |
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Post by richierich333 on May 29, 2017 9:12:53 GMT
Yes of course I have to be him because i don't agree with what your saying, ridiculous. What chance of a game did Dummett have? He was consistently left out time and time again. How long was he prepared to wait when players in front of him clearly weren't pulling their weight? What makes you say that Taylor and all weren't pulling their weight? Whatever anyone thinks of Taylor ability wise as a player,I don't think many think that he wasn't pulling his weight He was playing poorly after the Euro's and couldn't justify his place in the side. Just my opinion I think Dummett should have come in where Davies plays (LCB) and then Davies move out wide in the LWB slot. |
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Post by richierich333 on May 29, 2017 9:15:50 GMT
Yes of course I have to be him because i don't agree with what your saying, ridiculous. What chance of a game did Dummett have? He was consistently left out time and time again. How long was he prepared to wait when players in front of him clearly weren't pulling their weight? You're completely missing the point here. When did players stop pulling their weight, in your opinion? I think I just answered this in the other comment. In my opinion Dummett should have come in the LCB role and Davies go out wide for Taylor as LWB. I don't think Taylor was playing particularly well after the Euro's on the qualifiers and I've been to all the home games. If you don't agree then don't but theres no need for this 'are you Dummett in disguise?' rubbish is there really |
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Post by zenith on May 29, 2017 9:41:08 GMT
You're completely missing the point here. When did players stop pulling their weight, in your opinion? I think I just answered this in the other comment. In my opinion Dummett should have come in the LCB role and Davies go out wide for Taylor as LWB. I don't think Taylor was playing particularly well after the Euro's on the qualifiers and I've been to all the home games. If you don't agree then don't but theres no need for this 'are you Dummett in disguise?' rubbish is there really Right, so Moldova 4-0 win. Austria 2-2 - Taylor at fault for neither goal, it was actually an Allen and Davies mix up for that second. Georgia 1-1 - Taylor potentially at fault there for not tracking his man If I'm being entirely honest as much as I'm not really a Taylor fan, that's not enough for me to drop him. If anything, Dummett should've come in as a replacement for Davies in the Serbia game. I'm not the manager so I don't know what Dummett is like around the camp and in training. Maybe he wasn't well versed in the 3 at the back? |
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Post by iot on May 29, 2017 12:44:56 GMT
I think I just answered this in the other comment. In my opinion Dummett should have come in the LCB role and Davies go out wide for Taylor as LWB. I don't think Taylor was playing particularly well after the Euro's on the qualifiers and I've been to all the home games. If you don't agree then don't but theres no need for this 'are you Dummett in disguise?' rubbish is there really Right, so Moldova 4-0 win. Austria 2-2 - Taylor at fault for neither goal, it was actually an Allen and Davies mix up for that second. Georgia 1-1 - Taylor potentially at fault there for not tracking his man If I'm being entirely honest as much as I'm not really a Taylor fan, that's not enough for me to drop him. If anything, Dummett should've come in as a replacement for Davies in the Serbia game. I'm not the manager so I don't know what Dummett is like around the camp and in training. Maybe he wasn't well versed in the 3 at the back? Yes that's the point, we don't know how things are when they meet up. Coleman has a far greater knowledge than us about the merits of the respective players. Clearly, he's selected the best team available at any one time, as he sees it. If a player doesn't make it and shows a complete lack of commitment as a result, then it's the player's fault - not the manager's! If he is bothered about Wales, he would stick it out no matter what as 99% of us would. The fact that he hasn't, as well as several previous pull outs, in my opinion shows that he doesn't care all that much about Wales. |
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Post by marsvolta on May 29, 2017 16:06:54 GMT
What makes you say that Taylor and all weren't pulling their weight? Whatever anyone thinks of Taylor ability wise as a player,I don't think many think that he wasn't pulling his weight He was playing poorly after the Euro's and couldn't justify his place in the side. Just my opinion I think Dummett should have come in where Davies plays (LCB) and then Davies move out wide in the LWB slot. Of course people can have an opinion on whether someone is good enough to warrant a place in the side. I took it that if someone says a player is 'not pulling their weight', it means they weren't trying and I don't think even Taylor's biggest critics can accuse him of that. Apologies if you didn't mean that |
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Post by cymroircarn on May 29, 2017 17:32:41 GMT
If there is someone not pulling their weight it's Dummett pulling out of squads
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Post by oscardelta on Jun 1, 2017 19:31:44 GMT
Who's the 1% of posters that wouldn't sit on the bench for Wales? C'mon name and shame! has to be one   Like that was a hard call. |
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Post by oscardelta on Jun 1, 2017 19:42:33 GMT
To be fair ROI had this with Trap not playing Wes Hoolihan and can understand the frustrations of a player whom manager decides to bring along and not use. It is not fair on the players when this happens and a little honesty is required from managers. At end of long season i can understand a player deciding i want a long break before heading back into pre season training and not be held for another couple of weeks when not being used. ROI had Stephen Ireland pull out from a game using dead granny as an excuse, it was news to both of his grannys, we have really missed Simon Ireland or whatever his name is, NOT  |
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Post by manulike on Dec 6, 2017 22:05:12 GMT
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Post by welshiron on Dec 7, 2017 12:57:50 GMT
Hopefully he will come back into the fold, could see him at LWB allowing Ben Davies to play left back.
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 27, 2017 21:43:08 GMT
For what it’s worth, Dummett returned to he Newcastle side tonight playing the full game.
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Post by ae15 on Dec 27, 2017 23:07:17 GMT
May well come back into the fold under a new manager, especially given our lack of strength at CB and his ability to play there.
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Post by cymroircarn on Dec 28, 2017 7:55:15 GMT
I’m surprised he gets so much love here.
He quit us remember and pulled out of a number of squads.
Giggs, Collins etc get criticised for the same thing.
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Post by joseywales37 on Dec 28, 2017 12:41:17 GMT
I'm more up for getting the likes of Rodon, , Poole squad place now tbh.
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Post by fiveattheback on Dec 28, 2017 12:59:44 GMT
I’m surprised he gets so much love here. He quit us remember and pulled out of a number of squads. Giggs, Collins etc get criticised for the same thing. Lack of CB cover is probably why people are lenient on here, but I'd much rather see Mepham given a chance |
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Post by cymroircarn on Dec 28, 2017 13:28:48 GMT
I’m surprised he gets so much love here. He quit us remember and pulled out of a number of squads. Giggs, Collins etc get criticised for the same thing. Lack of CB cover is probably why people are lenient on here, but I'd much rather see Mepham given a chance We gave him a chance and he quit us. I agree, give the likes of Mepham a chance over him. |
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Post by bale-droed on Jan 16, 2018 13:32:52 GMT
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Post by ae15 on Mar 4, 2018 20:41:46 GMT
Controversial again, but Dummett started left side of back three against Liverpool last night... If Dummett isn't a bad apple within the squad and wants to play for us, he should be called up. He's a few years off 30 and playing week in week out for a premier league team, can we really be turning a player like that down? I don't think he's bad apple, but that's my own personal opinion. He's a better option than Taylor at the moment. |
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