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Post by aberbeeg on Sept 2, 2021 17:54:07 GMT
Well if I had a £100 bet on who would score more goals for their Country My money would be on Colwill not Roberts
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Post by sleepy on Sept 2, 2021 19:56:06 GMT
You cannot play for Bielsa and be lazy. Far from it. Bielsa has been brutal on players who have not shown enough commitment or poor fitness
Tyler is either a number 10 or a slightly deeper midfielder but as a possibly blinkered leeds fan I think we are foolish to think he won't make the grade.
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Post by dai on Sept 2, 2021 21:44:48 GMT
I am just frustrated because many of our players do not seem to know what to do in front of goal! You just wish sometimes a 19 year old comes in and smashes it into the net, like Woodburn did. He knew where the goal was and that is why his demise since is so sad - I hope he gets back on track. A good goalscorer usually has it at a young age right? Colwill has great technique and positional sense - I just wish I saw signs of a born goal scorer as I am desperate to see one in the Wales team again!!! Its just a shame that Bale could not be converted into one. I know it's frustrating that Moore is our only real option at number 9, but try not to take it out on Colwill. He's in there as a young attacking midfielder, he'll probably end up getting a few goals as he develops anyway Page and the management seem hell bent on not selecting players who actually score at club level. Bizarre logic, but that's what we have. |
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Post by iot on Sept 2, 2021 22:19:12 GMT
I remember Bradshaw banging in a few in League 1, as did Cassidy. Whatever happened to them? Bradshaw's scored 29 goals in 165 championship games since going up a level - about 1 in 6 (for anyone interested in returning to the Church v Bradshaw debate btw (I know you're all itching for it), I've just looked it up and Church just about beats him with 30 in 155 Championship games ha). Sam Vokes is just one goal below Jephoctt this season despite massively struggling in the championship for the past couple of seasons. Jephcott's played a few games for the u21 now - not sure if you've seen them, but he's hardly blown teams away. He also went about 20 games in the second half of last season without scoring a goal.
Look, I'm pleased that we've got a young striker who's showing some promise, but as far as I'm concerned he's someone just to keep tabs on at the moment because there's nothing to suggest he can do it at a higher level. He's had a taste of international football with the u21s and struggled. I'm happy to see him tested further at that level first and see whether he can maintain his goalscoing form throughout the season + ideally add other aspects to his game. But there's nothing controversial or illogical about leaving him out of the senior squad, it's just another example of hyping players who haven't been involved in a desperate attempt to make out they're the answer to all our problems. It's a nice, simple solution for people who like nice, simple solutions.
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Post by talyfan on Sept 3, 2021 8:50:42 GMT
I remember Bradshaw banging in a few in League 1, as did Cassidy. Whatever happened to them? Bradshaw's scored 29 goals in 165 championship games since going up a level - about 1 in 6 (for anyone interested in returning to the Church v Bradshaw debate btw (I know you're all itching for it), I've just looked it up and Church just about beats him with 30 in 155 Championship games ha). Sam Vokes is just one goal below Jephoctt this season despite massively struggling in the championship for the past couple of seasons. Jephcott's played a few games for the u21 now - not sure if you've seen them, but he's hardly blown teams away. He also went about 20 games in the second half of last season without scoring a goal. Look, I'm pleased that we've got a young striker who's showing some promise, but as far as I'm concerned he's someone just to keep tabs on at the moment because there's nothing to suggest he can do it at a higher level. He's had a taste of international football with the u21s and struggled. I'm happy to see him tested further at that level first and see whether he can maintain his goalscoing form throughout the season + ideally add other aspects to his game. But there's nothing controversial or illogical about leaving him out of the senior squad, it's just another example of hyping players who haven't been involved in a desperate attempt to make out they're the answer to all our problems. It's a nice, simple solution for people who like nice, simple solutions. I wouldn't say Jephcott is the answer but calling up another striker or two wouldn't go a miss in the next round of fixtures. I will stress the pool of strikers available isn't great. But I'm of the opinion of any striker such as Bradshaw, Doidge, Vokes, Jephcott or anyone I've missed, offer us more than the likes of Bale and Roberts playing out of position or deploying a false nine which I think from players available along with supporting roles we don't have anyone suitable. Just by playing up front week in week out, being positionally aware of what areas to take up, playing on last man, getting in behind, how to lose their marker in the box and how to link up play up front goes a long way. None of those lads at the moment would start any competitive games just friendlies and off the bench minutes. Just saves us having to change system all the time when we want to rest Kieffer. |
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Post by iot on Sept 3, 2021 9:02:57 GMT
I remember Bradshaw banging in a few in League 1, as did Cassidy. Whatever happened to them? Bradshaw's scored 29 goals in 165 championship games since going up a level - about 1 in 6 (for anyone interested in returning to the Church v Bradshaw debate btw (I know you're all itching for it), I've just looked it up and Church just about beats him with 30 in 155 Championship games ha). Sam Vokes is just one goal below Jephoctt this season despite massively struggling in the championship for the past couple of seasons. Jephcott's played a few games for the u21 now - not sure if you've seen them, but he's hardly blown teams away. He also went about 20 games in the second half of last season without scoring a goal. Look, I'm pleased that we've got a young striker who's showing some promise, but as far as I'm concerned he's someone just to keep tabs on at the moment because there's nothing to suggest he can do it at a higher level. He's had a taste of international football with the u21s and struggled. I'm happy to see him tested further at that level first and see whether he can maintain his goalscoing form throughout the season + ideally add other aspects to his game. But there's nothing controversial or illogical about leaving him out of the senior squad, it's just another example of hyping players who haven't been involved in a desperate attempt to make out they're the answer to all our problems. It's a nice, simple solution for people who like nice, simple solutions. I wouldn't say Jephcott is the answer but calling up another striker or two wouldn't go a miss in the next round of fixtures. I will stress the pool of strikers available isn't great. But I'm of the opinion of any striker such as Bradshaw, Doidge, Vokes, Jephcott or anyone I've missed, offer us more than the likes of Bale and Roberts playing out of position or deploying a false nine which I think from players available along with supporting roles we don't have anyone suitable. Just by playing up front week in week out, being positionally aware of what areas to take up, playing on last man, getting in behind, how to lose their marker in the box and how to link up play up front goes a long way. None of those lads at the moment would start any competitive games just friendlies and off the bench minutes. Just saves us having to change system all the time when we want to rest Kieffer. That's fair enough, but just because some of those players haven't played for us, it doesn't mean our coaches don't know anything about them. Page and the team will know all about Jephcott for example and, based on their statements, I think it's pretty clear they don't think he's up to it yet. I don't completely agree with your comments on false 9 , I think Harry Wilson has actually shown that he is pretty well suited to the position, and playing with that fluidity has worked on certain occasions (eg Ireland and Finland at home, even the most recent performance against Finland). It's just a different way of playing, yes we won't have someone who's as accustomed to playing on defenders' shoulders, but we get other things from having a fluid front-4. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2021 10:25:13 GMT
I remember Bradshaw banging in a few in League 1, as did Cassidy. Whatever happened to them? Bradshaw's scored 29 goals in 165 championship games since going up a level - about 1 in 6 (for anyone interested in returning to the Church v Bradshaw debate btw (I know you're all itching for it), I've just looked it up and Church just about beats him with 30 in 155 Championship games ha). Sam Vokes is just one goal below Jephoctt this season despite massively struggling in the championship for the past couple of seasons. Jephcott's played a few games for the u21 now - not sure if you've seen them, but he's hardly blown teams away. He also went about 20 games in the second half of last season without scoring a goal. Look, I'm pleased that we've got a young striker who's showing some promise, but as far as I'm concerned he's someone just to keep tabs on at the moment because there's nothing to suggest he can do it at a higher level. He's had a taste of international football with the u21s and struggled. I'm happy to see him tested further at that level first and see whether he can maintain his goalscoing form throughout the season + ideally add other aspects to his game. But there's nothing controversial or illogical about leaving him out of the senior squad, it's just another example of hyping players who haven't been involved in a desperate attempt to make out they're the answer to all our problems. It's a nice, simple solution for people who like nice, simple solutions. I wouldn't say Jephcott is the answer but calling up another striker or two wouldn't go a miss in the next round of fixtures. I will stress the pool of strikers available isn't great. But I'm of the opinion of any striker such as Bradshaw, Doidge, Vokes, Jephcott or anyone I've missed, offer us more than the likes of Bale and Roberts playing out of position or deploying a false nine which I think from players available along with supporting roles we don't have anyone suitable. Just by playing up front week in week out, being positionally aware of what areas to take up, playing on last man, getting in behind, how to lose their marker in the box and how to link up play up front goes a long way. None of those lads at the moment would start any competitive games just friendlies and off the bench minutes. Just saves us having to change system all the time when we want to rest Kieffer. Exactly- your point relates perfectly to Bradshaw, everyone’s like “he didn’t score any goooooooooals” like they expected him to bang in a hat track in that appearance against the Ukraine pre-Euro 2016 when his build up play and movement alone were streets ahead of the competition. On that showing there was no single area you would have concluded the likes of Church were better apart from “he makes people laugh in camp more than Bradshaw does”. So on that basis I agree, let’s be fair there are plenty who wouldn’t have picked Moore and later admitted as much after he came in and hit the ground running because they under-estimated what he could bring to the team based on his club career. When you are in such a desperate position as we are you have to take desperate measures to start planning for the future. The alternative approach, as we seem to be taking, is to sit on our hands and do nothing while Bale reaches retirement age. Relying on a core group of forwards while players who are natural strikers by trade don’t get a chance in friendlies so we can take yet more looks at Roberts as a striker- and whatever the merits of Roberts for and against we are all pretty much agreed that he is not a striker. It’s a very outside chance admittedly, but maybe, like with Moore, a chance to play with higher quality players might coax a surprising performance out of a Doidge or a Jephcott. Let’s be fair we’re in such a perilous position in the attacking department that we really should be taking every chance we get to bring an actual striker into the fold for the first time for a friendly game. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 3, 2021 10:28:55 GMT
It’s becoming obvious that Roberts is not a traditional number nine, he’s not even an effective false one. He has the talent to be a useful player for us so let’s see how he develops under Bielsa in the next couple of seasons. Maybe number 8 will be where he settles, would be great for us if he does but yeah, we desperately need some strikers from somewhere.
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 3, 2021 10:44:41 GMT
The biggest question is, if the coaching staff say that the youngsters are ready and don’t consider the likes Doidge as good enough, then why don’t we call Vokes up until players like Harries, Jephcott or Cullen are ready?
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2021 12:11:33 GMT
The biggest question is, if the coaching staff say that the youngsters are ready and don’t consider the likes Doidge as good enough, then why don’t we call Vokes up until players like Harries, Jephcott or Cullen are ready? Because we’ve seen what Vokes can do over the last decade and the answer is: not a lot. When you can be that confident in your knowledge that a player isn’t bringing anything new to the table what’s the point in picking them? Vokes nadir in a Welsh shirt was the goal against Belgium and when you take that out of the equation it’s hard to think of any other games where he really stood out or made a telling contribution. His bread and butter is as a target man but even then to say he’s a poor man’s Moore is shaming the poor man. Notoriously poor touch and a head like a fifty pence piece. Much better to hand out caps to dodgy youngsters in the hope they come good than circle back round to a bloke who, with all due respect, you can count their number of good games in a Wales shirt on the fingers of just one hand. |
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Post by hooky on Sept 3, 2021 12:28:31 GMT
I really do not get it.
I have been very impressed as to the football intelligence on this message board when people are not being petty.
However, what is it with other singling out players who are not worthy?
Most recently it was Levitt - from the age of 19 I believe. A boy finding his feet.
Now the focus is on Roberts. Now people are arguing that players such as Doidge and Jephcott are more worthy of a place than Tyler Roberts!!!
There is a whole page or more of negative criticism of Roberts. Are we the most negative international fans ever?
Roberts is massively frustrating as his many skills, great technique and physique suggest he should be much more productive than he is. At the moment I'd agree he will probably settle in a mid Championship team in the long term unless he takes his game to the next level in the next 2 years. However, he is a far better option than those others.
Doidge - I watched him a couple of times and there was just nothing of note. He is not even that prolific at a poor level of football!
Jephcott - young and as stated is playing in the first division and went through a big goal drought through the second half of last season!
Tyler Roberts is 22. He is regularly used off the bench and is playing against top class players. His hold up play and link play is very good - extremely important at international level. He is capable of great performances - remember his game vs. Chelsea last year? The problem is he is not consistent enough (at the top level!!!) and never gets much of a run of games.
Now if the other 2 were banging in 20 plus goals at Championship levels then perhaps you can argue this marginally more than outweighs Roberts much better all round play - but that is not the case!
Doidge is 29. Last season he scored 13 goals in 47 appearances
Jephcott is 21 - that is just one year younger than Tyler Roberts! Last season he scored 18 goals in 46 games in division one. He has never scored a goal for Wales at age group levels in his 9 appearances.
I really hope Tyler does not read this forum. The criticism is OTT. We are not England or France! I will be ecstatis if we beat Belarus as it is not going to be easy at all
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Post by iot on Sept 3, 2021 12:31:04 GMT
The biggest question is, if the coaching staff say that the youngsters are ready and don’t consider the likes Doidge as good enough, then why don’t we call Vokes up until players like Harries, Jephcott or Cullen are ready? Because we’ve seen what Vokes can do over the last decade and the answer is: not a lot. When you can be that confident in your knowledge that a player isn’t bringing anything new to the table what’s the point in picking them? Vokes nadir in a Welsh shirt was the goal against Belgium and when you take that out of the equation it’s hard to think of any other games where he really stood out or made a telling contribution. His bread and butter is as a target man but even then to say he’s a poor man’s Moore is shaming the poor man. Notoriously poor touch and a head like a fifty pence piece. Much better to hand out caps to dodgy youngsters in the hope they come good than circle back round to a bloke who, with all due respect, you can count their number of good games in a Wales shirt on the fingers of just one hand. I think that's a very naïve way of looking at things. Whilst us fans only really learn about players by seeing them on the pitch, the coaching staff will have a far greater insight. Jephcott's been with the u21s whilst Harries and Cullen have had loads of caps in the age groups and worked directly with Page too, so they already have a good sense of what level they're at. |
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 3, 2021 16:35:51 GMT
I really do not get it. I have been very impressed as to the football intelligence on this message board when people are not being petty. However, what is it with other singling out players who are not worthy? Most recently it was Levitt - from the age of 19 I believe. A boy finding his feet. Now the focus is on Roberts. Now people are arguing that players such as Doidge and Jephcott are more worthy of a place than Tyler Roberts!!! There is a whole page or more of negative criticism of Roberts. Are we the most negative international fans ever? Roberts is massively frustrating as his many skills, great technique and physique suggest he should be much more productive than he is. At the moment I'd agree he will probably settle in a mid Championship team in the long term unless he takes his game to the next level in the next 2 years. However, he is a far better option than those others. Doidge - I watched him a couple of times and there was just nothing of note. He is not even that prolific at a poor level of football! Jephcott - young and as stated is playing in the first division and went through a big goal drought through the second half of last season! Tyler Roberts is 22. He is regularly used off the bench and is playing against top class players. His hold up play and link play is very good - extremely important at international level. He is capable of great performances - remember his game vs. Chelsea last year? The problem is he is not consistent enough (at the top level!!!) and never gets much of a run of games. Now if the other 2 were banging in 20 plus goals at Championship levels then perhaps you can argue this marginally more than outweighs Roberts much better all round play - but that is not the case! Doidge is 29. Last season he scored 13 goals in 47 appearances Jephcott is 21 - that is just one year younger than Tyler Roberts! Last season he scored 18 goals in 46 games in division one. He has never scored a goal for Wales at age group levels in his 9 appearances. I really hope Tyler does not read this forum. The criticism is OTT. We are not England or France! I will be ecstatis if we beat Belarus as it is not going to be easy at all To be fair, most on here are more positive to the players but I agree that for some reason we now find that there always has to be a ‘bad guy’ in every game we play. Ironically, the ones who say that we should throw in some untried players instead of Roberts have been slagging off the selection of Colwill saying that he’s not ready. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 3, 2021 19:05:59 GMT
I really do not get it. I have been very impressed as to the football intelligence on this message board when people are not being petty. However, what is it with other singling out players who are not worthy? Most recently it was Levitt - from the age of 19 I believe. A boy finding his feet. Now the focus is on Roberts. Now people are arguing that players such as Doidge and Jephcott are more worthy of a place than Tyler Roberts!!! There is a whole page or more of negative criticism of Roberts. Are we the most negative international fans ever? Roberts is massively frustrating as his many skills, great technique and physique suggest he should be much more productive than he is. At the moment I'd agree he will probably settle in a mid Championship team in the long term unless he takes his game to the next level in the next 2 years. However, he is a far better option than those others. Doidge - I watched him a couple of times and there was just nothing of note. He is not even that prolific at a poor level of football! Jephcott - young and as stated is playing in the first division and went through a big goal drought through the second half of last season! Tyler Roberts is 22. He is regularly used off the bench and is playing against top class players. His hold up play and link play is very good - extremely important at international level. He is capable of great performances - remember his game vs. Chelsea last year? The problem is he is not consistent enough (at the top level!!!) and never gets much of a run of games. Now if the other 2 were banging in 20 plus goals at Championship levels then perhaps you can argue this marginally more than outweighs Roberts much better all round play - but that is not the case! Doidge is 29. Last season he scored 13 goals in 47 appearances Jephcott is 21 - that is just one year younger than Tyler Roberts! Last season he scored 18 goals in 46 games in division one. He has never scored a goal for Wales at age group levels in his 9 appearances. I really hope Tyler does not read this forum. The criticism is OTT. We are not England or France! I will be ecstatis if we beat Belarus as it is not going to be easy at all To be fair, most on here are more positive to the players but I agree that for some reason we now find that there always has to be a ‘bad guy’ in every game we play. Ironically, the ones who say that we should throw in some untried players instead of Roberts have been slagging off the selection of Colwill saying that he’s not ready. There seems to be a lot of this “the people who argue in favour of X then decide X is an idiot” sort of stuff going out about but I for one am not seeing it. It seems a very black and white way of characterising the arguments. If Page wants to call up Colwill then that’s fine and good to expand the player base but to call him up just to be part of a squad is when I start to get annoyed. To be fair Page has played him in the Finland game so it’s good to see that there was a material, on-pitch purpose to calling him up at least. That being said Colwill isn’t going to sort out our lack of a decent back up striker though. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Sept 9, 2021 8:20:35 GMT
Could all the Taylor Roberts fans please stand up……the white coats are hanging behind the door.
This guy is an absolute disgrace and that was one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen in a Welsh shirt.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 9, 2021 8:23:18 GMT
Could all the Taylor Roberts fans please stand up……the white coats are hanging behind the door. This guy is an absolute disgrace and that was one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen in a Welsh shirt. You'll be hounded out by people claiming he was out of position. While that is true, he's rarely ever put a decent performance in for Wales. The lad can't shoot and often makes the wrong decision with his passing. What does Bielsa see in him at Leeds? |
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Post by aberbeeg on Sept 9, 2021 8:25:27 GMT
Could all the Taylor Roberts fans please stand up……the white coats are hanging behind the door. This guy is an absolute disgrace and that was one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen in a Welsh shirt. You'll be hounded out by people claiming he was out of position. While that is true, he's rarely ever put a decent performance in for Wales. The lad can't shoot and often makes the wrong decision with his passing. What does Bielsa see in him at Leeds? He should be embarrassed by that performance and if I was manager he would never pull on the shirt again. he was a disgrace |
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Post by dai on Sept 9, 2021 8:27:26 GMT
Could all the Taylor Roberts fans please stand up……the white coats are hanging behind the door. This guy is an absolute disgrace and that was one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen in a Welsh shirt. You'll be hounded out by people claiming he was out of position. While that is true, he's rarely ever put a decent performance in for Wales. The lad can't shoot and often makes the wrong decision with his passing. What does Bielsa see in him at Leeds? It's ironic. I spend most of my time lamenting why managers don't give Welsh players more chances in the PL - Neco, Ampadu etc. Yet with Roberts, you really have to wonder how is he anywhere near a PL squad. All he had to do last night was square it to Jonny for a tap in, but couldn't even manage the simplest of decisions. |
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Post by twofootedtackle on Sept 9, 2021 9:06:09 GMT
Tyler unfortunately, although nice and tidy on the ball, can neither finish nor make the right choices in terms of passing. Worrying again that Page picked him for a presence up top rather than on merit.
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 9, 2021 9:25:00 GMT
He's just not a striker, even I can see that
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Post by erasedcitizen on Sept 9, 2021 9:26:36 GMT
He's just not a striker, even I can see that He's not a striker, he's not a 10 and he's not a winger from what I've seen of him. Have we tried him in goal yet? |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 9, 2021 9:27:52 GMT
He's shocking - As a premier league player he should be at least a menace to an Estonian defence, but he wasn't.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 9, 2021 9:30:27 GMT
Tyler unfortunately, although nice and tidy on the ball, can neither finish nor make the right choices in terms of passing. Worrying again that Page picked him for a presence up top rather than on merit. To be fair to page - he doesn't see him as often as leeds do, and they play him. So he should be quality enough to cause estonia problems based on that alone. |
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Post by insertname on Sept 9, 2021 11:03:44 GMT
He's just not a striker, even I can see that He's not a striker, he's not a 10 and he's not a winger from what I've seen of him. Have we tried him in goal yet? Can he drive a bus? |
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Post by welshrover on Sept 9, 2021 11:07:26 GMT
You'll be hounded out by people claiming he was out of position. While that is true, he's rarely ever put a decent performance in for Wales. The lad can't shoot and often makes the wrong decision with his passing. What does Bielsa see in him at Leeds? It's ironic. I spend most of my time lamenting why managers don't give Welsh players more chances in the PL - Neco, Ampadu etc. Yet with Roberts, you really have to wonder how is he anywhere near a PL squad. All he had to do last night was square it to Jonny for a tap in, but couldn't even manage the simplest of decisions. Yes, Johnny was livid with him and gave him a earful. |
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Post by dai on Sept 9, 2021 11:12:59 GMT
It's ironic. I spend most of my time lamenting why managers don't give Welsh players more chances in the PL - Neco, Ampadu etc. Yet with Roberts, you really have to wonder how is he anywhere near a PL squad. All he had to do last night was square it to Jonny for a tap in, but couldn't even manage the simplest of decisions. Yes, Johnny was livid with him and gave him a earful. Yeah, I saw Jonny's reaction - quite uncharacteristic for him to be fair. Or maybe it's the frustration of playing alongside someone who's playing verges on being a hindrance. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Sept 9, 2021 13:28:40 GMT
I’d go as far as saying he actually helped Estonia last night. If we had played without him we would probably have faired better.
Total disgrace for his Country and should never wear the shirt again…..but knowing Page he’s already pencilled Roberts in for the next two matches.
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Post by insertname on Sept 9, 2021 13:31:13 GMT
I’d go as far as saying he actually helped Estonia last night. If we had played without him we would probably have faired better. Total disgrace for his Country and should never wear the shirt again…..but knowing Page he’s already pencilled Roberts in for the next two matches. Remember how he couldn’t get down from Leeds to sort a visa for Russia? I wish he hadn’t managed to sort out a visa to get into Wales. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Sept 9, 2021 13:34:05 GMT
I’d go as far as saying he actually helped Estonia last night. If we had played without him we would probably have faired better. Total disgrace for his Country and should never wear the shirt again…..but knowing Page he’s already pencilled Roberts in for the next two matches. Remember how he couldn’t get down from Leeds to sort a visa for Russia? I wish he hadn’t managed to sort out a visa to get into Wales. We can only dream |
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Post by hooky on Sept 9, 2021 13:36:50 GMT
Let’s stop this scapegoating.
You seriously believe one player was responsible for this? His link up play is good but he is not a striker. How about blaming forwards such as Wilson and Bale who missed easier opportunities? I wonder why not? Or our dire midfield.
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