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Post by jimexotic on Mar 12, 2023 19:12:52 GMT
On the other and, 33 caps in 9 years, 29 years old, injury prone, dropped down to the fourth tier of English football, Oli Cooper, Rubin Colwill, Charlie Savage, Jordan James, Neco wide midfield, maybe this is the right time, it's just hard to stomach right now because he was a very useful player at times and extremely likeable.
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 12, 2023 19:27:49 GMT
For months (even years) all I’ve been hearing is that we’ve been too loyal to older players, old boys club, stuck in Euro 2016, closed shops, Picking League 2 players ahead of youngster players in higher divisions, etc etc etc.
Now Page is poised to pick a younger, fresher squad, the old guard are stepping aside, the League 2 players are no longer selected or available. Yes, the supposed closed shop is no more.
Hell, even Oli Cooper will be able to play instead of that darned League 2 player, so the one decision that overshadowed our historic World Cup squad announcement is no longer an option.
Yet now, when what everyone has been screaming for has happened, everyone’s dream has come true,suddenly there’s outrage and suggestions that there’s ‘something wrong’.
Can somebody help me out here? I’m totally lost.
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 12, 2023 19:33:25 GMT
For months (even years) all I’ve been hearing is that we’ve been too loyal to older players, old boys club, stuck in Euro 2016, closed shops, Picking League 2 players ahead of youngster players in higher divisions, etc etc etc. Now Page is poised to pick a younger, fresher squad, the old guard are stepping aside, the League 2 players are no longer selected or available. Yes, the supposed closed shop is no more. Hell, even Oli Cooper will be able to play instead of that darned League 2 player, so the one decision that overshadowed our historic World Cup squad announcement is no longer an option. Yet now, when what everyone has been screaming for has happened, everyone’s dream has come true,suddenly there’s outrage and suggestions that there’s ‘something wrong’. Can somebody help me out here? I’m totally lost. I think it's more that so many happened at once and it's comes as a bit of a shock. I don't think anyone saw this one coming and people are just going through period of reflection. It's not really normal for a 29 year old that's finally started playing regular football during a time when opportunities for him to play for his country are probably higher than ever to retire from International football so it's to be expected that some question it. Likewise with Allen, although I always thought he would retire he was talking prior to the retirement like he was going to carry on so again, it's expected that some question what's going on. I'm quietly excited, intrigued and a little scared about what the future holds for us now, it could be brilliant or it could be the beginning of the mid 90's to late 00's all over again. |
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Post by cadno on Mar 12, 2023 19:34:50 GMT
He’s 29, if he was selected in the squad and Page told him he really wants him involved then he’d still be playing for us.
Given the lack of depth and experience in our midfield, I don’t think it’s very wise not to keep someone like Jonny involved.
Tbf this is a new chapter now I agree. The worst of it for me is when Giggs the clown pushed Ashley Williams away, when imo he should’ve remained captain and been the heart of our defence up until Euro 2020.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 12, 2023 19:45:56 GMT
For months (even years) all I’ve been hearing is that we’ve been too loyal to older players, old boys club, stuck in Euro 2016, closed shops, Picking League 2 players ahead of youngster players in higher divisions, etc etc etc. Now Page is poised to pick a younger, fresher squad, the old guard are stepping aside, the League 2 players are no longer selected or available. Yes, the supposed closed shop is no more. Hell, even Oli Cooper will be able to play instead of that darned League 2 player, so the one decision that overshadowed our historic World Cup squad announcement is no longer an option. Yet now, when what everyone has been screaming for has happened, everyone’s dream has come true,suddenly there’s outrage and suggestions that there’s ‘something wrong’. Can somebody help me out here? I’m totally lost. Beats me mate, just shows how many people are prone to conspiracies I think It's the start of a new chapter and we are looking to the next 4 years and beyond. Nothing more nothing less |
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Post by robin1864 on Mar 12, 2023 19:54:29 GMT
Dropping like flies now, I thought Joniesta could have been a key player for us in a world without Joe Allen.
With him being 29, it's more about prolonging his career and earnings given his injury-proneness, I can't begrudge him that.
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Post by cadno on Mar 12, 2023 19:57:40 GMT
For months (even years) all I’ve been hearing is that we’ve been too loyal to older players, old boys club, stuck in Euro 2016, closed shops, Picking League 2 players ahead of youngster players in higher divisions, etc etc etc. Now Page is poised to pick a younger, fresher squad, the old guard are stepping aside, the League 2 players are no longer selected or available. Yes, the supposed closed shop is no more. Hell, even Oli Cooper will be able to play instead of that darned League 2 player, so the one decision that overshadowed our historic World Cup squad announcement is no longer an option. Yet now, when what everyone has been screaming for has happened, everyone’s dream has come true,suddenly there’s outrage and suggestions that there’s ‘something wrong’. Can somebody help me out here? I’m totally lost. Beats me mate, just shows how many people are prone to conspiracies I think It's the start of a new chapter and we are looking to the next 4 years and beyond. Nothing more nothing less Going out to Croatia, ideally is it better to have the experienced Joe Allen, Jonny Williams and Andy King involved, at least as options from the bench? I’d understand if we had a few wonder kids coming through but the depth of our midfield is truly shocking |
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Post by melynwy on Mar 12, 2023 19:57:50 GMT
Can somebody help me out here? I’m totally lost. Sure - it's not the same person saying all of that. This forum - and the internet in general - is made up of many different people with many different opinions. Baffling isn't it?! |
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Post by conwy10 on Mar 12, 2023 19:58:54 GMT
I know Page said he didn't want everyone to retire at the same time, but I thought he meant campaigns, not weeks.
Anyone want to start a sweepstake who'll be next? I'm going for Wayne Hennessey.
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Post by dai on Mar 12, 2023 20:11:04 GMT
For months (even years) all I’ve been hearing is that we’ve been too loyal to older players, old boys club, stuck in Euro 2016, closed shops, Picking League 2 players ahead of youngster players in higher divisions, etc etc etc. Now Page is poised to pick a younger, fresher squad, the old guard are stepping aside, the League 2 players are no longer selected or available. Yes, the supposed closed shop is no more. Hell, even Oli Cooper will be able to play instead of that darned League 2 player, so the one decision that overshadowed our historic World Cup squad announcement is no longer an option. Yet now, when what everyone has been screaming for has happened, everyone’s dream has come true,suddenly there’s outrage and suggestions that there’s ‘something wrong’.Can somebody help me out here? I’m totally lost. Who's dream has come true? I know a few daft fans on Twitter have been calling for the likes of jonny to be dropped, but the proper fans all know how important he is, and is much, much better than League 2, and better than a few of these so called promising youngsters. If Page was poised to pick a younger, fresher squad, that doesn't mean players have to retire. Like I said, Chester, King, Vokes etc have never announced their retirement and the door has always been open. Yet, all of a sudden these senior group of players are retiring at a very odd rate (I don't think we've seen the last either). I would also add that all these players, bar Gunter, only said a few months ago that they were still keen to part of the international future, with Page even saying players won't retire all at once. So what's happened? And if Page has indeed told these players that they will never be picked again, then that's poor management, as we are now in dire straits with our midfield and could really do with the likes of Jonny being available. I'll second Hennessey as the next to retire. |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 12, 2023 20:11:18 GMT
I know Page said he didn't want everyone to retire at the same time, but I thought he meant campaigns, not weeks. Anyone want to start a sweepstake who'll be next? I'm going for Wayne Hennessey. Tbh I wouldn't be too bothered by that one, he's looked very unreliable in the last few months and the Bruce Lee kick against Iran was a clear sign that it's coming to the end. If it wasn't what followed for Forest and Coopers lack of faith in him spells it out to all, he's done. |
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 12, 2023 20:11:20 GMT
Can somebody help me out here? I’m totally lost. Sure - it's not the same person saying all of that. This forum - and the internet in general - is made up of many different people with many different opinions. Baffling isn't it?! Are you sure it’s not the same people? Have a look |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 12, 2023 20:16:10 GMT
Beats me mate, just shows how many people are prone to conspiracies I think It's the start of a new chapter and we are looking to the next 4 years and beyond. Nothing more nothing less Going out to Croatia, ideally is it better to have the experienced Joe Allen, Jonny Williams and Andy King involved, at least as options from the bench? I’d understand if we had a few wonder kids coming through but the depth of our midfield is truly shocking At a certain point you just have to change the guard and go through the teething problems, and then be better for it on the other side If we hang on to the likes of Allen, King and Jonny then the likes of Savage, James and Cooper won't have enough caps under their belts when they hit their prime You could argue we'd be slightly weaker for the time being, but I'd argue in 10 caps time they'll be better players than the outgoing players |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 12, 2023 20:20:46 GMT
Going out to Croatia, ideally is it better to have the experienced Joe Allen, Jonny Williams and Andy King involved, at least as options from the bench? I’d understand if we had a few wonder kids coming through but the depth of our midfield is truly shocking At a certain point you just have to change the guard and go through the teething problems, and then be better for it on the other side If we hang on to the likes of Allen, King and Jonny then the likes of Savage, James and Cooper won't have enough caps under their belts when they hit their prime You could argue we'd be slightly weaker for the time being, but I'd argue in 10 caps time they'll be better players than the outgoing players This. I'm massively jumping the gun here but the reports on Savage since Ferguson put faith in him suggest that we might have a player on our hands here, a tidy, clever midfielder who can do a decent job for us for the next 10-12 years+ The good times are never far away |
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Post by cadno on Mar 12, 2023 20:22:31 GMT
Going out to Croatia, ideally is it better to have the experienced Joe Allen, Jonny Williams and Andy King involved, at least as options from the bench? I’d understand if we had a few wonder kids coming through but the depth of our midfield is truly shocking At a certain point you just have to change the guard and go through the teething problems, and then be better for it on the other side If we hang on to the likes of Allen, King and Jonny then the likes of Savage, James and Cooper won't have enough caps under their belts when they hit their prime You could argue we'd be slightly weaker for the time being, but I'd argue in 10 caps time they'll be better players than the outgoing players The goal is to qualify for Germany, it’s 8 games between now and November. There’s room for the experienced players and the youngsters. It’s highly unlikely we won’t suffer injuries and suspensions, I won’t be surprised if we finish 3rd or 4th in this group. |
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Post by dai on Mar 12, 2023 20:49:19 GMT
Should have had minutes in the world cup too........
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Post by conwy10 on Mar 12, 2023 21:13:28 GMT
I know Page said he didn't want everyone to retire at the same time, but I thought he meant campaigns, not weeks. Anyone want to start a sweepstake who'll be next? I'm going for Wayne Hennessey. Tbh I wouldn't be too bothered by that one, he's looked very unreliable in the last few months and the Bruce Lee kick against Iran was a clear sign that it's coming to the end. If it wasn't what followed for Forest and Coopers lack of faith in him spells it out to all, he's done. I'd be devastated to be honest. I think he's done amazing for us but had one moment of madness. No comparison with Navas though. As long as he's happy at Nottingham that's the main thing. |
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Post by robin1864 on Mar 12, 2023 21:15:05 GMT
Should have had minutes in the world cup too........ If I were Joniesta I'd have retired sooner seeing Morrell get picked all the time, but this is what happens when we persist with a manager that had no prior experience in managing gifted and talented players, squandered ability. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 12, 2023 21:17:38 GMT
At a certain point you just have to change the guard and go through the teething problems, and then be better for it on the other side If we hang on to the likes of Allen, King and Jonny then the likes of Savage, James and Cooper won't have enough caps under their belts when they hit their prime You could argue we'd be slightly weaker for the time being, but I'd argue in 10 caps time they'll be better players than the outgoing players The goal is to qualify for Germany, it’s 8 games between now and November. There’s room for the experienced players and the youngsters. It’s highly unlikely we won’t suffer injuries and suspensions, I won’t be surprised if we finish 3rd or 4th in this group. At worst we will be a close 3rd imo, but we'll see |
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Post by fiveattheback on Mar 12, 2023 21:19:15 GMT
Should have had minutes in the world cup too........ If I were Joniesta I'd have retired sooner seeing Morrell get picked all the time, but this is what happens when we persist with a manager that had no prior experience in managing gifted and talented players, squandered ability. Eh? Morrell's been solid for Wales and plays a very different role to what Jonny did |
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Post by marsvolta on Mar 12, 2023 21:23:01 GMT
Should have had minutes in the world cup too........ As there was so much negativity on social media about the league he played in, I was glad he didn’t get on the pitch. With the World Cup being a disaster in general, I feared he would have been made a scapegoat and he didn’t deserve that (imagine if he had come on in the closing minutes of the Iran game for example) |
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Post by robin1864 on Mar 12, 2023 22:52:22 GMT
If I were Joniesta I'd have retired sooner seeing Morrell get picked all the time, but this is what happens when we persist with a manager that had no prior experience in managing gifted and talented players, squandered ability. Eh? Morrell's been solid for Wales and plays a very different role to what Johnny did Morrell is a bit of a terrier and certainly has a role for us, almost like a replacement for Ledley in a way. This is fine, but we're up shit creek without a paddle when we need to break a defence with a killer pass or a spark of creativity, at which point we need Joniesta. No surprise the entirety of our world cup was characterised by a lack of creativity. Anyways, with this news, along with the other retirements, it wouldn't surprise me if Ramsey was next to hang up his boots. |
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Post by reyrey on Mar 13, 2023 3:52:42 GMT
I don’t get players retiring from international football.
Seems to be more a uk thing.
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Post by surge on Mar 13, 2023 8:39:43 GMT
There has been negative reaction on twitter to Paige's squad selection more recently (a twitter bubble or something to worry about regarding next generation of fans?) but none of that negativity in the stadium - we all knew he could do a job for us either off the bench or as part of leadership group away from home.
Osian Roberts has done a three post thread on twitter paying tribute to him, and his dad too, which is well worth a read.
Maybe someone should make the point that HRK retired then came back. If he can, if he's needed, I'm sure Jonny would be willing to consider it.
Opportunity for younger players now to make sure that question doesn't get put to Jonny in the future.
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Post by dai on Mar 13, 2023 20:06:48 GMT
Now that the dust has settled, I'm feeling really gutted about Jonny retiring. More so than Bale and Allen, and can't explain why. He had an infectious attitude towards the game, positive on the pitch, and was always a joy to watch such a technically superb player.
I also went to watch Swindon play on Saturday (he's much better than that team), and so to see his news of retiring so soon after watching him live was proper shit.
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Post by bale-droed on Mar 14, 2023 3:28:45 GMT
I’m very pro Williams (See two pages back) the levels he’s played at or was playing at when selected has always been utterly irrelevant and he’s had some amazing moments for us. His best game at club level (so far  )was When he came off in the league 1 play off final and single Handley won them the game. Such a what if player in terms of injury but he’s an inspiration because despite all these injuries he’s never quit and dropped into obscurity that’s really inspirational to see. Despite all that and how much the love the guy personally I’m disappointed. He really could come off the bench v Latvia/Armenia and work some magic. I feel like Page has obviously said “This campaign we need to try something new” but that doesn’t mean my Jonny should retire. He loves playing for us and we might really need him? We literally might have 5 midfield injuries in September and then what? 29 not 34. What if Page isn’t there in two years? He’s got two campaigns left in him there’s absolutely no need to retire because you won’t be in a squad. In the Croatia chat I’ve predicted we’re going to see a few out of the blue call ups like Chester and J Lawrence in the past. For me this retirement gives me further vibes of this. I don’t mean 1 or 2 obvious youngsters like Cooper, James Or Harris I’m thinking a couple of 23-26 year olds are coming out of the blue. Either Jay da Silva or a few players the public don’t know are eligible. |
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Mar 14, 2023 8:43:10 GMT
It really does seem a bizarre decision on Joniesta's part - he was saying only a few weeks ago how much he loved playing for us. Even if Page has said something to him about squad selection for the current campaign, why take the nuclear option of retiring from international football? Plenty of players have been recalled from the wilderness in the past.
As someone else has said, please please let him change his mind in a few months and come back into the fold!
(Wonder if he consulted with anyone sensible, before making this strange move? Even if thinking negative thoughts right now, why not just lie low and review later in the year?)
I personally liked the mantra of Mark Pembridge (a stalwart player from an earlier era): "I shall always be available for Wales".
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Post by dai on Mar 14, 2023 8:56:54 GMT
Well this has applied to a few current players too - Andy King, Vokes, Ledley, Ash Williams, James Chester, Neil Taylor etc. None officially retired from Wales, which make the current situation odd.
We haven't had retirements like this since post-Hughes. Can't help but think something a bit odd is going on. Has the camp not been that enjoyable over the last few years? Are these players seeing something they don't like?
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Post by dai on Mar 14, 2023 8:59:54 GMT
I’m very pro Williams (See two pages back) the levels he’s played at or was playing at when selected has always been utterly irrelevant and he’s had some amazing moments for us. His best game at club level (so far )was When he came off in the league 1 play off final and single Handley won them the game. Such a what if player in terms of injury but he’s an inspiration because despite all these injuries he’s never quit and dropped into obscurity that’s really inspirational to see. Despite all that and how much the love the guy personally I’m disappointed. He really could come off the bench v Latvia/Armenia and work some magic. I feel like Page has obviously said “This campaign we need to try something new” but that doesn’t mean my Jonny should retire. He loves playing for us and we might really need him? We literally might have 5 midfield injuries in September and then what? 29 not 34. What if Page isn’t there in two years? He’s got two campaigns left in him there’s absolutely no need to retire because you won’t be in a squad. In the Croatia chat I’ve predicted we’re going to see a few out of the blue call ups like Chester and J Lawrence in the past. For me this retirement gives me further vibes of this. I don’t mean 1 or 2 obvious youngsters like Cooper, James Or Harris I’m thinking a couple of 23-26 year olds are coming out of the blue. Either Jay da Silva or a few players the public don’t know are eligible. Exactly, he was the difference for both home and away Bulgaria games a few years ago. Scoring, and assisting. Only a few months ago he was quoted as saying he loves playing for Wales, and despite dropping down to League 2, he still feels he can make a contribution. So what's changed? |
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Mar 14, 2023 9:09:04 GMT
Possibly - maybe there was a bit more "hwyl" in the camps under the Coleman/Osh and Giggs/Stuivenberg regimes?
Must also have something to do with witnessing the departures of longstanding team-mates e.g Bale and Gunts (and maybe Wayne before long) - and with guys like Ash and Joe Ledley having gone previously, perhaps Jonny just felt that he too, despite his relatively young age, would call it a day...
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)was When he came off in the league 1 play off final and single Handley won them the game. Such a what if player in terms of injury but he’s an inspiration because despite all these injuries he’s never quit and dropped into obscurity that’s really inspirational to see.