Merthyr Town

[gimli]

Looking bleak for them now. Only won two games all season, and the last one was back in October. I know it's easy enough for me to say as I'm not a fan, but surely they have to be seriously considering joining the Welsh pyramid now?

I just don't see the appeal of playing in England at that level. They're never in a million years going to reach the Football League. They've been floating around the level they're at now for more or less their entire existence, a level which is similar to, if not worse, than the Cymru Premier. Why rot there in a foreign league with teams you have no history or rivalry with, without the chance of winning anything substantial, when you can move to your own national league, immediately become one of the biggest teams in the league, play against historical rivals, with a chance of winning domestic titles and qualifying for Europe?

[Deleted]

I am not a fan either but hard to argue with what you think,be interesting to hear what Merthyr fans think about it.

[allezlesrouges]

Jan 24, 2022 10:22:41 GMT gimli said:

Looking bleak for them now. Only won two games all season, and the last one was back in October. I know it's easy enough for me to say as I'm not a fan, but surely they have to be seriously considering joining the Welsh pyramid now?

I just don't see the appeal of playing in England at that level. They're never in a million years going to reach the Football League. They've been floating around the level they're at now for more or less their entire existence, a level which is similar to, if not worse, than the Cymru Premier. Why rot there in a foreign league with teams you have no history or rivalry with, without the chance of winning anything substantial, when you can move to your own national league, immediately become one of the biggest teams in the league, play against historical rivals, with a chance of winning domestic titles and qualifying for Europe?

Have to agree. Obviously the thoughts of the fans matters more, but if it were my club I'd certainly want the latter. And I think they'd be a fantastic addition to the Cymru leagues with plenty of potential. Would be good to see a Valleys team in the top division

[derynglas]

Not a Merthyr fan obvs but was hearing stories in the last 5-10 years
that some of the people running the club were sick and tired of the travelling
in their league.Your 4 hour mid week trip is a fairly common occurance in English
non league even in the lower levels apparently,not the case in the Welsh system.
Travel costs even in the southern league are quite substantial probably.
We know some people in the club see the Welsh system as the way forward now.

Thats been the case historically as well.Even in 1992 then chairman John Reddy,famous for
his bust ups with the FAW,stated that while they did not want to join the League of Wales
but if they were forced to they would and would endeavor to be the first club to win it.
They werent going into exile but would have joined if forced which ultimately they werent off course.

Then in 1996 around the time Caernarfon joined Reddy announced that as Merthyr did not
have the support to get into the football league that they should join the LOW as it was
an entry into Europe.
It was quite a surprise at the time though that when he put it to a vote to the fans
that they elected to remain in the English system.
I think most people in Welsh football and indeed some within the club itself can see the
insanity and futility of their stance which has seen them waste 30 years and gone bust twice
chasing the English coin.Its just a question of whether the fanbase can be persuaded.

[cynonvalley]

Jan 24, 2022 10:22:41 GMT gimli said:

Looking bleak for them now. Only won two games all season, and the last one was back in October. I know it's easy enough for me to say as I'm not a fan, but surely they have to be seriously considering joining the Welsh pyramid now?

I just don't see the appeal of playing in England at that level. They're never in a million years going to reach the Football League. They've been floating around the level they're at now for more or less their entire existence, a level which is similar to, if not worse, than the Cymru Premier. Why rot there in a foreign league with teams you have no history or rivalry with, without the chance of winning anything substantial, when you can move to your own national league, immediately become one of the biggest teams in the league, play against historical rivals, with a chance of winning domestic titles and qualifying for Europe?

100%. I bet they a lot of their fans say that beating Atalanta at Penydarren is one of the biggest moments in the clubs history. Of course that was only possible because they played and won a FAW competition  

[paj]

As a supporter of a former Cymru premier club currently in the Cymru south I would love Merthyr to join. A proper club with a great fan base. Was surprised they did not switch same time as colwyn bay did to Cymru north. Fans will be split no doubt. I remember reading an article in when Saturday comes from a c bay fan saying he would never watch them again as they had joined welsh pyramid but I believe their attendances have grown sine they did and travel costs much less.

Be interested in hearing what fans of both clubs think.

[aberbeeg]

Having watched MTFC quite a bit during the red years of CCFC I get the “ dream” of climbing the Football league and ultimately playing against much bigger clubs. They are a proud club themselves and have a good support base. Some gates were 2500 plus which is far better than the general much poorer support in the WPL.
However to keep that “dream” alive it ultimately requires deep pockets and big financial clout which the club simply doesn’t have.

Look at the investment the likes of Salford have had just to get to League 2. Wrexham now ploughing money into the club hoping to get back in the football league.

I can clearly see both sides of the argument but MTFC could/would still have 3/4 hour trips in the WPL. No doubt their gates would take a hit too.

[derynglas]

There are 3-4 hour trips in the WPL off course in any games between
Southern and Northern clubs.
The point is these games invariably take place on a Saturday or Sunday
when everybodys got time to travel,unlike in England.
Also the Welsh cup is at the weekend and no replays.
We can speculate about gates,but Colwyn Bays crowds have almost doubled in some cases.

[foxmulder]

I will never understand the logic of stopping support for your team if they were to join a different league.

Surely you'd support your team no matter what?

[conwy10]

Jan 24, 2022 16:58:45 GMT foxmulder said:

I will never understand the logic of stopping support for your team if they were to join a different league.

Surely you'd support your team no matter what?

I'm a Wrexham fan but live in and born and bred in Conwy. I think I'd be lost and without a club if Wrexham joined the Cymru League. I might as well just support Conwy.

Growing up with my grandfather, father, brother, uncles, cousins... now niece and nephew, hopefully one day son and daughter watching Wrexham representing North Wales against England (not even going to pretend to be politically correct). Travelling over an hour and be in the home end watching Wrexham take on Llanduno or Conwy isn't why I love Wrexham.

Long story short I can completely understand people stop supporting a club if the circumstances are significantly changed.

[allezlesrouges]

Jan 25, 2022 23:03:33 GMT conwy10 said:

Jan 24, 2022 16:58:45 GMT foxmulder said:

I will never understand the logic of stopping support for your team if they were to join a different league.

Surely you'd support your team no matter what?

I'm a Wrexham fan but live in and born and bred in Conwy. I think I'd be lost and without a club if Wrexham joined the Cymru League. I might as well just support Conwy.

Growing up with my grandfather, father, brother, uncles, cousins... now niece and nephew, hopefully one day son and daughter watching Wrexham representing North Wales against England (not even going to pretend to be politically correct). Travelling over an hour and be in the home end watching Wrexham take on Llanduno or Conwy isn't why I love Wrexham.

Long story short I can completely understand people stop supporting a club if the circumstances are significantly changed.

That makes sense. Although I feel that applies more to the situation in north east Wales than for Merthyr, where you already have Cardiff as somewhat of a catchment for fans for that type of thing, I think most fans follow them because it is a club that represents the town, rather than there being a broader sociological context to supporting them 

[garynysmon]

To be honest I never saw Colwyn Bay making the switch. The fanbase was pretty entrenched in its opposition and always came across as quite hostile to the idea.

Then, boom, overnight everything changed. I'm sure they lost some fans due to the switch, but they gained a hell of a lot more and are enjoying the biggest attendances they've seen in many years.

There's always been an element among the football watching public in Wales who view the Welsh pyramid as intrinsically inferior to anything in England. I've had people argue that Colwyn Bay were at a higher level than the WPL when not a single stat backed that up, based only on the premise it must be better than the Welsh offering.

Personally I never got the fascination with travelling to play against Lancashire and Yorkshire mill towns every other week, their rivals are and should always have been Llandudno, Conwy, Rhyl etc.

But given how opposed Colwyn Bay were and how they've now embraced it to such an extent, I can't imagine it would be any different to Merthyr who would face trips no further than 90 mins or so in the Cymru South.

[paj]

Jan 25, 2022 23:14:48 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Jan 25, 2022 23:03:33 GMT conwy10 said:

I'm a Wrexham fan but live in and born and bred in Conwy. I think I'd be lost and without a club if Wrexham joined the Cymru League. I might as well just support Conwy.

Growing up with my grandfather, father, brother, uncles, cousins... now niece and nephew, hopefully one day son and daughter watching Wrexham representing North Wales against England (not even going to pretend to be politically correct). Travelling over an hour and be in the home end watching Wrexham take on Llanduno or Conwy isn't why I love Wrexham.

Long story short I can completely understand people stop supporting a club if the circumstances are significantly changed.

That makes sense. Although I feel that applies more to the situation in north east Wales than for Merthyr, where you already have Cardiff as somewhat of a catchment for fans for that type of thing, I think most fans follow them because it is a club that represents the town, rather than there being a broader sociological context to supporting them 

Cardiff and Swansea I would suggest. 

[underwood]

They never get much attention on here, but they are flying this season, 2 points off the top with a game in hand.

They regularly get crowds of 800-900, which is impressive at that level, good luck to them, hope they continue to grow.

[hooky]

Good on them!

I remember from my early days playing for Brithdir coming up against Georgetown and they were always one of the toughest teams we'd play.

Would be brilliant if they could make it - so many talented kids around this area

[CrackityJones]

They had a great start last season then dropped off, hopefully they can maintain the push this time

[welshrover]

Jan 26, 2022 11:29:41 GMT garynysmon said:

Personally I never got the fascination with travelling to play against Lancashire and Yorkshire mill towns every other week, their rivals are and should always have been Llandudno, Conwy, Rhyl etc.

To be fair Gary, when I first started watching Rhyl, long before the advent of the LOW, we played in The Cheshire League and it was exactly as you described, trips to Mill Towns!

However, it did have one redeeming feature and that was entry to the FA Cup.

Some not to be forgotten moments here.

nwsport.co.uk/2019/04/16/north-wales-footballs-greatest-stories-no17-rhyl-fcs-fa-cup-heroics/

[allezlesrouges]

Hope they go up a few levels. I wonder if they will come in on the deal with Cardiff, Swansea, Newport & Wrexham about the European qualification. It would make sense for them to as I'm sure it would help a lot with revenues

[rushy]

The problem as anyone who has done it is travel by road North to South or vice versa. Most of those mill towns in Lancs.you could reach from the north in 2 hours on the M56/M6 , going through the road system of north to mid wales takes takes forever.

[garynysmon]

Oct 21, 2024 11:37:55 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Hope they go up a few levels. I wonder if they will come in on the deal with Cardiff, Swansea, Newport & Wrexham about the European qualification. It would make sense for them to as I'm sure it would help a lot with revenues

To be honest they're the only English based side you could realistically see joining the Welsh system anytime soon.

But by offering them a spot on the Welsh League Cup (as proposed) it makes that less likely if they're getting the best of both worlds anyway.

I'll get pelters for this but for that very reason I'd rather see them excluded tbh.

In the same way that clubs below the top two tiers of Welsh football couldn't compete, there could be a proviso that you have to play in the EFL or the top two tiers of the Welsh system to qualify.

(There is a precedent here, only the highest ranked English non league sides out of Colwyn/Merthyr/Newport used to qualify for the old FAW Premier Cup and Colwyn never did).

[allezlesrouges]

Oct 22, 2024 9:34:56 GMT garynysmon said:

Oct 21, 2024 11:37:55 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Hope they go up a few levels. I wonder if they will come in on the deal with Cardiff, Swansea, Newport & Wrexham about the European qualification. It would make sense for them to as I'm sure it would help a lot with revenues

To be honest they're the only English based side you could realistically see joining the Welsh system anytime soon.

But by offering them a spot on the Welsh League Cup (as proposed) it makes that less likely if they're getting the best of both worlds anyway.

I'll get pelters for this but for that very reason I'd rather see them excluded tbh.

In the same way that clubs below the top two tiers of Welsh football couldn't compete, there could be a proviso that you have to play in the EFL or the top two tiers of the Welsh system to qualify.

(There is a precedent here, only the highest ranked English non league sides out of Colwyn/Merthyr/Newport used to qualify for the old FAW Premier Cup and Colwyn never did).

Yeah actually that's a good point. Commercially they wouldn't add much by bringing them in, it only really benefits them into having the best of both worlds. Excluding them might allow them to see the value the Welsh system has ahead of the tier they currently reside

[CrackityJones]

FAW have approached Merthyr to join the expanded Cymru Prem in 2026

x.com/yclwbpeldroed/status/1856258548839104613?s=46&t=AiQ2bFsJdbUTQrCtkKJDTg

[jimexotic]

If they got their act together and managed to qualify for Europe surely they'd make money and increase their profile a lot more than they would messing around at the lower end of the English pyramid playing village town teams in front of few men and a dog? They should make the jump and help grow the league, the more competitive it is the better.

[redwall]

That's a step in the right direction.

People on here know a lot more about the league than me but I was wondering why more isn't being done to create bigger clubs? There are two teams from Flint in the Premier, a town with only 13k people. And another one in the Cymru North. Along with like 10 other clubs in the very nearby area. Combine them. 

I know it's a meritocracy etc but I feel having a league system with 44 clubs from towns and villages with 3k people is absolutely doomed to never grow. How can you ever hope to get attendances of 2k with the situation like this?

Maybe it's been discussed, or is planned for the future but why isn't there more done to have a big Cardiff team or two (not attached to a university), and a big Swansea team. I know there's a Newport City in the 2nd tier now which is a good sign. Neath, Aberdare, Caerphilly, Pontypridd, Llanelli are all big settlements.

I know a lot will be against such a heavy handed approach but the reality is you're not going to organically grow a league system where most of the top teams play in tiny villages pulling 300 fans a week. I think more has to be done to merge and promote a core of 10-15 "major" clubs. If they grow, raise attendances and get better players it's good for everyone in the league. 

[fiveattheback]

Nov 12, 2024 11:14:45 GMT redwall said:

That's a step in the right direction.

People on here know a lot more about the league than me but I was wondering why more isn't being done to create bigger clubs? There are two teams from Flint in the Premier, a town with only 13k people. And another one in the Cymru North. Along with like 10 other clubs in the very nearby area. Combine them. 

I know it's a meritocracy etc but I feel having a league system with 44 clubs from towns and villages with 3k people is absolutely doomed to never grow. How can you ever hope to get attendances of 2k with the situation like this?

Maybe it's been discussed, or is planned for the future but why isn't there more done to have a big Cardiff team or two (not attached to a university), and a big Swansea team. I know there's a Newport City in the 2nd tier now which is a good sign. Neath, Aberdare, Caerphilly, Pontypridd, Llanelli are all big settlements.

I know a lot will be against such a heavy handed approach but the reality is you're not going to organically grow a league system where most of the top teams play in tiny villages pulling 300 fans a week. I think more has to be done to merge and promote a core of 10-15 "major" clubs. If they grow, raise attendances and get better players it's good for everyone in the league. 

Caerau Ely seem to have some momentum behind them and are in the second tier now

The thing probably stopping a large Cardiff team is probably somewhat similar to the issue you pointed out in Flint, there's clubs for every area, often 2 or 3. Off the top of my head, Ely alone has 4 teams plus the associated reserves for 15k people. Obviously smaller scale but its possibly partially why clubs haven't been able to grow because there isn't "the Cardiff" team in the Welsh system, there isn't even "the team" for most areas. Splott has 3 teams, Canton has 3 teams etc etc

And then obviously the elephant in the room of Cardiff City

[redwall]

Cardiff City themselves were originally called Riverside, changing their name to something that represented more people was the right move. Similar things should happen here. If not the whole city itself then the Ely and Canton teams could combine to at least create some sort of west Cardiff representation.

The elephant in the room is certainly Cardiff City, but I believe it's fairly normal in England to have a PL side and still visit your local non-league or 4th tier side. Cardiff has 400k people, if smaller cities can support multiple EFL sides, Cardiff can support a proper CP side, either as a rival or more likely a sister side CCFC loan players to.

When you look at our UEFA coefficient, there's really no reason we shouldn't be top 40 above places like the Faroes, Liechtenstein, Malta, Latvia... even without the big 4 sides. I really want to see the league grow but as I say it feels like nobody important wants to address the biggest issue it has.

[allezlesrouges]

Nov 12, 2024 13:12:37 GMT redwall said:

Cardiff City themselves were originally called Riverside, changing their name to something that represented more people was the right move. Similar things should happen here. If not the whole city itself then the Ely and Canton teams could combine to at least create some sort of west Cardiff representation.

The elephant in the room is certainly Cardiff City, but I believe it's fairly normal in England to have a PL side and still visit your local non-league or 4th tier side. Cardiff has 400k people, if smaller cities can support multiple EFL sides, Cardiff can support a proper CP side, either as a rival or more likely a sister side CCFC loan players to.

When you look at our UEFA coefficient, there's really no reason we shouldn't be top 40 above places like the Faroes, Liechtenstein, Malta, Latvia... even without the big 4 sides. I really want to see the league grow but as I say it feels like nobody important wants to address the biggest issue it has.

Cardiff Draconians have tried this after changing their name from Gabalfa Draconians. Along with Bridgend Street and Cardiff Corinthians they are the highest grassroots Cardiff based team in the Welsh pyramid (3rd tier). I was involved in the club previously and I think they have a lot of potential. Populous location in the middle of the city and good momentum behind them

One of the challenges they will have is modernising and increasing revenue, but I could see them do as you suggest with some investment behind them - as previously suggested perhaps the FAW need to take the lead with this in order to stimulate development

[fiveattheback]

Nov 12, 2024 17:40:55 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Nov 12, 2024 13:12:37 GMT redwall said:

Cardiff City themselves were originally called Riverside, changing their name to something that represented more people was the right move. Similar things should happen here. If not the whole city itself then the Ely and Canton teams could combine to at least create some sort of west Cardiff representation.

The elephant in the room is certainly Cardiff City, but I believe it's fairly normal in England to have a PL side and still visit your local non-league or 4th tier side. Cardiff has 400k people, if smaller cities can support multiple EFL sides, Cardiff can support a proper CP side, either as a rival or more likely a sister side CCFC loan players to.

When you look at our UEFA coefficient, there's really no reason we shouldn't be top 40 above places like the Faroes, Liechtenstein, Malta, Latvia... even without the big 4 sides. I really want to see the league grow but as I say it feels like nobody important wants to address the biggest issue it has.

Cardiff Draconians have tried this after changing their name from Gabalfa Draconians. Along with Bridgend Street and Cardiff Corinthians they are the highest grassroots Cardiff based team in the Welsh pyramid (3rd tier). I was involved in the club previously and I think they have a lot of potential. Populous location in the middle of the city and good momentum behind them

One of the challenges they will have is modernising and increasing revenue, but I could see them do as you suggest with some investment behind them - as previously suggested perhaps the FAW need to take the lead with this in order to stimulate development

Caerau are in the Cymru South and Cardiff based

Canton (formerly Canton Liberal) are in the third tier and going well

[neverever]

Nov 12, 2024 9:45:36 GMT CrackityJones said:

FAW have approached Merthyr to join the expanded Cymru Prem in 2026

x.com/yclwbpeldroed/status/1856258548839104613?s=46&t=AiQ2bFsJdbUTQrCtkKJDTg

So does this mean they just jump into the premier league then ?

No mention on the club forum either. 

Hardly fair on especially Colwyn Bay when they joined from the english leagues and not long ago in March 2019 they had to join the newly formed second-tier Cymru North.

What about all the teams in North Wales like the reformed Bangor 1876 F.C and a few others like Llandudno FC ( 1878) are they going to be part of this expanded league?

[dragon64]

Nov 12, 2024 9:45:36 GMT CrackityJones said:

FAW have approached Merthyr to join the expanded Cymru Prem in 2026

x.com/yclwbpeldroed/status/1856258548839104613?s=46&t=AiQ2bFsJdbUTQrCtkKJDTg

would love to see this happen on one hand, but it could be a can of worms, as a team from north/south would miss out and that doesn't seem fair

only way I see them going for it would be the route into European football it would offer them