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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 18:18:16 GMT
Adrian Durham this evening on talk sport - so so salty!
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 4, 2017 18:34:50 GMT
I'm not sure how this will sound, I hope it doesn't sound negative but I'm worried about a 17 year old being considered one of our key players to qualify. It was an amazing goal and he won us 3 vital points, but it's important to remember he is still really young and we need to be careful not to put too much pressure on him. He isn't up there with Bale, Ramsey and Allen yet. He did score on his debut but so did Freddy Eastwood. Let's just let him play games without being in the spotlight.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 18:41:07 GMT
The thing is try to imagine Robbie savage trapping moving and striking the ball like that. Anyone who can do that has a ceiling that is very very high.
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 4, 2017 18:48:25 GMT
Adrian Durham this evening on talk sport - so so salty! Is it on now? I love seeing that twat get shown up |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Sept 4, 2017 21:09:42 GMT
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Post by iot on Sept 4, 2017 21:24:52 GMT
Is it bad that when I saw him on touchline waiting to come on, in my mind, my middle finger was pointing at England, and when he scored, I was actually mooning them. Is that bad of me? lol Personally don't like that attitude, it's small nation syndrome. Don't get me wrong, I have no time at all for England. But why let them define us like that? In a moment of ecstasy for Wales, England shouldn't enter our thoughts. |
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Post by jbt95 on Sept 4, 2017 21:27:24 GMT
Is it bad that when I saw him on touchline waiting to come on, in my mind, my middle finger was pointing at England, and when he scored, I was actually mooning them. Is that bad of me? lol I was just glad at that point that we knew he was always going to be ours! Forever and ever and ever and ever and ever lol  |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Sept 4, 2017 22:01:01 GMT
I haven't got that excited over a goal since Vokes' header against Belgium at the Euro's. Obviously watched it back lots since the game and minus the screaming & jumping around it just gets better every time I see it. Wouldn't have looked out of place if Messi had scored it.
It's easy to get carried away here and we probably shouldn't (yet) but I just can't help indulge myself thinking how good he can actually be. The kid is special.
It's kind of nice the way it is at the moment. Teams aren't setting themselves up to deal with Ben just yet. He's our secret weapon. That'll change when he starts doing that every week for Liverpool.
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Post by zenith on Sept 4, 2017 22:04:38 GMT
I haven't got that excited over a goal since Vokes' header against Belgium at the Euro's. Obviously watched it back lots since the game and minus the screaming & jumping around it just gets better every time I see it. Wouldn't have looked out of place if Messi had scored it. It's easy to get carried away here and we probably shouldn't (yet) but I just can't help indulge myself thinking how good he can actually be. The kid is special. It's kind of nice the way it is at the moment. Teams aren't setting themselves up to deal with Ben just yet. He's our secret weapon. That'll change when he starts doing that every week for Liverpool. He is special but let's not put the pressure on him like the English media do. He is one hell of a talent, I hope he gets 20 mins in Moldova tomorrow. |
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Post by hookd on Sept 4, 2017 22:38:42 GMT
Totally agree. Hopefully we can nail a 2-3 nil lead (hopefully there will be no cock up!) helped by the addition of Allen and then bring him on towards the end. I hope Tom Lawrence starts and he is inspired by what Woodward did on Saturday and scores a worldy himself! As we have seen Lawrence has bags of skill, pace and a great shot himself. Then bring Woodburn on with 20 mins to go - if all is going well then the Moldovans will simply not know what has hit them! I agree about protecting him for now but can not wait for that day when we have Bale, Ramsey, Woodburn and a centre forward (Robson-Kanu or Tyler Roberts) attacking for us in unison, with Lawrence or (if he's committed) Brooks in support on the flanks or to come off the bench and technical midfield players like Allen and Huws to supply the ammunition - just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All we need now is to unearth some attacking fullbacks from somewhere! Whatever happens we should never be bored again watching Wales over the next few years!
I just watched the Woodburn goal again and paused it at it stage. He is 17 for goodness sake! Just on, important game. The way he trapped the ball looked effortless - but you seldom see a ball trapped dead like he brought it down from such a height! Then the slight shift to the right - he does it all the time (look at the goal in Dublin in the recent Liverpool friendly). Finally that arrow at 100 miles per hour into the corner. Pause the shot on its way and you soon realise how the ball was in the net before the goalkeeper could react. Few players in the world can strike the ball that hard, while keeping it low and as accurate as that (Gerrard is one who could do that consistently) - but we have seen him hit many goals for us at youth level which looked unnatural given their unerring accuracy. The way he hits his shots reminds me of Hagi - remember him the Romanian midfield maestro!
One bonus is I did not realise how easily he could take on defenders. The Austrians were no mugs but the way he ran and dribbled with the ball for fun reminded me of Giggs (rather than Bale - where he beat players with sheer power, pace and athleticism rather than tricks). Of course he is not as quick as those two but he has so much going for him. Why the hell is Klopp holding him back?
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Post by hookd on Sept 4, 2017 22:41:30 GMT
PS - I did not like the headline today of Bale claiming he talked Woodburn into playing for Wales. 1. It trivialises his commitment 2. Its bullshit - at the end of the day a player will decide by himself with his family and not base his decision in any way whatsoever on a conversation with someone he hardly know, no matter how special 3. What was the point - why did Bale mention it?
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Post by manulike on Sept 5, 2017 7:51:02 GMT
The Holy Trinity: Bale, Ramsey and Woodburn Our midfield is now RAW = Rambo Allen and Woodburn |
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Post by georgetm1 on Sept 5, 2017 8:36:55 GMT
PS - I did not like the headline today of Bale claiming he talked Woodburn into playing for Wales. 1. It trivialises his commitment 2. Its bullshit - at the end of the day a player will decide by himself with his family and not base his decision in any way whatsoever on a conversation with someone he hardly know, no matter how special 3. What was the point - why did Bale mention it? I saw the press conference he was talking about it in and the press are twisting Bales words. He never claimed he persuaded him, Woodburn was already at the Wales vg Holland game on his own accord and about and before that England called Woodburn up for a training camp, Osian Roberts told him to check it out to expand his footballing experience, he went, didn't like it and came back to help the U19's beat France.This can be said for about another 8 dual qualified players. They all went to an England training camp at the FAW's advice and they all came back and played for us. |
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Post by texan on Sept 5, 2017 11:27:32 GMT
I saw the press conference he was talking about it in and the press are twisting Bales words. He never claimed he persuaded him, Woodburn was already at the Wales vg Holland game on his own accord and about and before that England called Woodburn up for a training camp, Osian Roberts told him to check it out to expand his footballing experience, he went, didn't like it and came back to help the U19's beat France.This can be said for about another 8 dual qualified players. They all went to an England training camp at the FAW's advice and they all came back and played for us. Cledwyn Ashford said only 18 months ago that England were actively chasing and putting heavy pressure on 12 Welsh youths behind the scenes to switch, I've since heard that at least three of them were Roberts, Woodburn and Ampadu. To this day I'm still gobsmacked with the fact that Osian Roberts actively told 8 of them last year to ACTUALLY GO to an England training camp...it says more than words ever could about the current state of Welsh youth development and the confidence oozing from it. Imagine being in such a position where (in a coaching context) not only are you doing the right thing, you KNOW you're doing it right to such an extent that you're happy to let your brightest talents go willingly into the clutches of such a major nation as England, confident in the knowledge that the opposition can't possibly offer anything that touches what you're offering. "Your careers are the most important thing to us lads, go with our blessing, enjoy the experience, learn & grow"...and then they all come back of their own free will! Stunning, a mentoring masterstroke that just demonstrates the deep levels of trust and loyalty that runs within this structure of ours. I remember an old (and rambling) post I put up a few years back pointing out that England* rarely see the wood for the trees, they haven't progressed a day from that post! England presume that all English qualified talent should form an orderly queue and wait their turn, they couldn't possibly wish to play for another nation of course so the FA don't feel the need to have any coherent introductory structure in place to bring kids into the fold. Their phenomenal arrogance is such that they feel they can dictate terms, handle these kids shoddily & remove opportunities from them such as the Victory Shield and still have them expectantly waiting wide-eyed at the gates of St George's Park. Well...that won't wash anymore. Even now in light of recent events they don't change, rather than think "ah, we're losing out here, there's a better way out there" they prefer to whine publicly and cry foul that these potential players have vanished over Offa's Dyke..."how dare they!" All the while unable to see anything wrong with their own tactics of attempting to poach 12 players behind everyone's backs whilst they were in Wales' Dev squads. Their new answer? Create an U15's squad so they can nick them first! Only its not about that, its about how you treat kids, how you nurture them and make them feel wanted...pulling them in a year earlier won't change anything, only by changing what and how you teach them will you see positive change. I said a few years back that England were 15 years behind us development-wise, it's now 20 and the chasm's growing ever-wider. Being Welsh its none of my concern of course, but it's a handy measuring stick to compare our development with that of our closest neighbours (Scotland, NI & RoI included in that of course!)...along with finding it fascinating how such a major footballing nation such as England can be practically allergic to any change whatsoever for so many decades! *Disclaimer: England in this context of course means the FA and the English media, especially those hateful salty cockwombles at TalkSport! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 11:51:23 GMT
I saw the press conference he was talking about it in and the press are twisting Bales words. He never claimed he persuaded him, Woodburn was already at the Wales vg Holland game on his own accord and about and before that England called Woodburn up for a training camp, Osian Roberts told him to check it out to expand his footballing experience, he went, didn't like it and came back to help the U19's beat France.This can be said for about another 8 dual qualified players. They all went to an England training camp at the FAW's advice and they all came back and played for us. Cledwyn Ashford said only 18 months ago that England were actively chasing and putting heavy pressure on 12 Welsh youths behind the scenes to switch, I've since heard that at least three of them were Roberts, Woodburn and Ampadu. To this day I'm still gobsmacked with the fact that Osian Roberts actively told 8 of them last year to ACTUALLY GO to an England training camp...it says more than words ever could about the current state of Welsh youth development and the confidence oozing from it. Imagine being in such a position where (in a coaching context) not only are you doing the right thing, you KNOW you're doing it right to such an extent that you're happy to let your brightest talents go willingly into the clutches of such a major nation as England, confident in the knowledge that the opposition can't possibly offer anything that touches what you're offering. "Your careers are the most important thing to us lads, go with our blessing, enjoy the experience, learn & grow"...and then they all come back of their own free will! Stunning, a mentoring masterstroke that just demonstrates the deep levels of trust and loyalty that runs within this structure of ours. I remember an old (and rambling) post I put up a few years back pointing out that England* rarely see the wood for the trees, they haven't progressed a day from that post! England presume that all English qualified talent should form an orderly queue and wait their turn, they couldn't possibly wish to play for another nation of course so the FA don't feel the need to have any coherent introductory structure in place to bring kids into the fold. Their phenomenal arrogance is such that they feel they can dictate terms, handle these kids shoddily & remove opportunities from them such as the Victory Shield and still have them expectantly waiting wide-eyed at the gates of St George's Park. Well...that won't wash anymore. Even now in light of recent events they don't change, rather than think "ah, we're losing out here, there's a better way out there" they prefer to whine publicly and cry foul that these potential players have vanished over Offa's Dyke..."how dare they!" All the while unable to see anything wrong with their own tactics of attempting to poach 12 players behind everyone's backs whilst they were in Wales' Dev squads. Their new answer? Create an U15's squad so they can nick them first! Only its not about that, its about how you treat kids, how you nurture them and make them feel wanted...pulling them in a year earlier won't change anything, only by changing what and how you teach them will you see positive change. I said a few years back that England were 15 years behind us development-wise, it's now 20 and the chasm's growing ever-wider. Being Welsh its none of my concern of course, but it's a handy measuring stick to compare our development with that of our closest neighbours (Scotland, NI & RoI included in that of course!)...along with finding it fascinating how such a major footballing nation such as England can be practically allergic to any change whatsoever for so many decades! *Disclaimer: England in this context of course means the FA and the English media, especially those hateful salty cockwombles at TalkSport!15 years behind yet suddenly a football powerhouse at youth level. I wish we were that far behind!  In the light of their recent success it is a bit sad that they still envy our players. Will their success mean we lose a few more players? Hopefully our players will see that the bigger, long term picture is better than the short termism of being contenders to win an under 21 or under 19 world cup. |
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Post by dai on Sept 5, 2017 12:45:56 GMT
My question is, why on earth do England feel the need to chase Welsh Youth players and complain of switching alliances?
They have possibly the biggest pool of players in World football, and yet they complain that we, one of the smallest nations 'pinch' players.
I really can't grasp it. I was looking at the England team last night, and they have such a wealth of options in every department. Why would they worry the odd player chooses to play for us?
This is not to belittle Woodburn at all, but for every Woodburn we have, they could have up to 3.
Fuck em.
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Post by texan on Sept 5, 2017 12:46:05 GMT
15 years behind yet suddenly a football powerhouse at youth level. I wish we were that far behind! Christ, I don't! The point of a youth development system is to bring kids through for the senior side. Yes their youth teams have done very well in 2017...but how many have transferred those skills to the seniors? Where has it taken them? Has their development noticeably changed the seniors' style of play over the years? Are they now more effective at international football as a result? Is the quality of their player pool expanding? The bottom line to all questions is no, the quality of their pool has in fact been diminishing at a consistent rate for a good decade. Pound for pound Wales is currently producing more quality than any other home nation. Its nice to win at all levels of course, however there's no guarantees that winning these youth tournaments will lead to anything long term. And when you analyse the FA's coaching & development structure they haven't actively changed anything to bring these kids through. These have come via the clubs, it isn't indicative of any corner being turned by the England youth structure, its a batch of kids appearing at the same time...many might not make it any further. Contrast this to Wales where the structure was changed, the 1st wave brought with it a change in philosophy and style of play, the 2nd wave took us to the Euro semis and the first of the third wave made a fairly meaningful impact on Saturday. There's no guarantee that ours will make it to the top either of course, just look at the struggles of the two Williams' of late, Declan John, Darcy Blake, Isgrove, Church being another. However with the benefit of hindsight history suggests that a hefty number of ours will at some point make a meaningful impact in the 'A' side. Structurally & methodologically the FA's development system is 20 years' worth of work & development behind ours, and any indication of real long-term change still hasn't materialised beyond boardroom talk. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 13:04:30 GMT
15 years behind yet suddenly a football powerhouse at youth level. I wish we were that far behind! Christ, I don't! The point of a youth development system is to bring kids through for the senior side. Yes their youth teams have done very well in 2017...but how many have transferred those skills to the seniors? Where has it taken them? Has their development noticeably changed the seniors' style of play over the years? Are they now more effective at international football as a result? Is the quality of their player pool expanding? The bottom line to all questions is no, the quality of their pool has in fact been diminishing at a consistent rate for a good decade. Pound for pound Wales is currently producing more quality than any other home nation. Its nice to win at all levels of course, however there's no guarantees that winning these youth tournaments will lead to anything long term. And when you analyse the FA's coaching & development structure they haven't actively changed anything to bring these kids through. These have come via the clubs, it isn't indicative of any corner being turned by the England youth structure, its a batch of kids appearing at the same time...many might not make it any further. Contrast this to Wales where the structure was changed, the 1st wave brought with it a change in philosophy and style of play, the 2nd wave took us to the Euro semis and the first of the third wave made a fairly meaningful impact on Saturday. There's no guarantee that ours will make it to the top either of course, just look at the struggles of the two Williams' of late, Declan John, Darcy Blake, Isgrove, Church being another. However with the benefit of hindsight history suggests that a hefty number of ours will at some point make a meaningful impact in the 'A' side. Structurally & methodologically the FA's development system is 20 years' worth of work & development behind ours, and any indication of real long-term change still hasn't materialised beyond boardroom talk. Good stuff. The only thing I would say against that is that this summer was almost unprecedented in terms of success for England, total domination at every level. If they didnt win it they came very close so I see as a year zero situation. The clock starts ticking from now- will these players breakthrough and bring with them a winning mentality that the England senior side have lacked for many years? The two world cups following next years will answer that question. Most probably not, but I have to say that all their youth teams doing so well in over one summer suggests that *something* is changing at least. |
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Post by alarch on Sept 5, 2017 13:07:41 GMT
Excellent post Texan, but there is a danger in assuming complacently that England will never learn. It was one thing to be "pinching" the likes of HRK and Vokes off the English, it's another matter entirely to take players of the quality of Woodburn, and hopefully in due course Ampadu, Brooks and Roberts - especially when most of these have stronger familial ties to England. We shouldn't rely on the incompetence of the English continuing - the press will be on to it even more as the success of Woodburn et al unfolds. We have to assume that England will eventually learn lessons, and the supply of top-notch Anglos dries up.
We should be focussed on what we can control. I'm much more concerned that Iceland U19s can come to Wales in two friendlies and beat us 4-0 and 1-0. Iceland with a population a tenth of Wales'. We need to look to emulate their professional approach to grassroots development, with highly qualified coaching staff at the lowest levels of the game. A bit of joined up thinking and collaboration with the arch-enemy the WRU and the Welsh government in pursuing their preventative health agenda, could work wonders in providing the indoor or 3G facilities needed for the level of mass participation that you see in Iceland.
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Post by texan on Sept 5, 2017 13:56:07 GMT
Excellent post Texan, but there is a danger in assuming complacently that England will never learn. It was one thing to be "pinching" the likes of HRK and Vokes off the English, it's another matter entirely to take players of the quality of Woodburn, and hopefully in due course Ampadu, Brooks and Roberts - especially when most of these have stronger familial ties to England. We shouldn't rely on the incompetence of the English continuing - the press will be on to it even more as the success of Woodburn et al unfolds. We have to assume that England will eventually learn lessons, and the supply of top-notch Anglos dries up. We should be focussed on what we can control. I'm much more concerned that Iceland U19s can come to Wales in two friendlies and beat us 4-0 and 1-0. Iceland with a population a tenth of Wales'. We need to look to emulate their professional approach to grassroots development, with highly qualified coaching staff at the lowest levels of the game. A bit of joined up thinking and collaboration with the arch-enemy the WRU and the Welsh government in pursuing their preventative health agenda, could work wonders in providing the indoor or 3G facilities needed for the level of mass participation that you see in Iceland. I don't think we're making hay whilst the sun shines really, we're simply doing things the right way and if England decide to follow suit and go down the hearts & minds route there's a chance things may still not change. The kids Wales target may still want to play for us over the English, they may have actually simply felt Welsh all along. Wales holds a database of kids going down to the age of 6 years old and I've heard of a couple of stories where Anglos have been approached and the FAW have been thoroughly rebuffed...we just don't get to hear about them. Those that do end up coming to us may have always wanted to do that anyway, however we will of course never know until England get their act together. One thing I'm not worried about these days is the willingness of the WFT to be open to trying new things and to learn new ways. They have delegations going out all over the show meeting & greeting, taking notes, learning and sharing good practices these days. I heartily agree that Iceland are certainly a benchmark at the moment, however I also know that the WFT and the KSI have a dialogue. If they're doing something worthwhile that we're currently not, I can almost guarantee you that the WFT are probably stripping it for assets and integrating it into their coaching structure as we're typing this! |
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Post by zenith on Sept 5, 2017 14:25:11 GMT
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Post by alarch on Sept 5, 2017 14:52:50 GMT
I'm encouraged by your post Texan, and there's certainly every reason to think that the FAW, under Osian Roberts' guidance is highly professional in its approach to things. But to emulate the Icelanic model would require a step-change in attitudes to coaching (fully professional at the every level of the game, as opposed to the current semi-professional at best model), and funding for fit-for-purpose facilities. With the widespread adoption of 3G pitches in the Welsh Premier things are moving in the right direction - but is the pace of change quick enough? How many indoor facilities of the type that they have in Iceland do we have at the disposal of kids? This is where co-operation with the WRU and the Welsh government could come in - to spread the cost of otherwise prohibitively expensive facilities.
Making sure that the pyramid of grassroots football is as wide as possible, with quality training from the earliest ages has to be the goal to ensure the long-term prosperity of the Welsh national team. All the signs are that the FAW share that vision - it's just that there's a gap, albeit a slowly narrowing one, at the moment between aspiration and outcome.
As for the Anglos, I wonder what feeling Welsh means to them? I suspect it revolves largely around the extended familial feel of the Welsh setup, rather than much knowledge or appreciation of broader aspects of Welsh identity. Not that that bothers me. But if England were to appoint a Cledwyn Ashford then the might be able to match what we have to offer.
It's a sobering thought, but Woodburn is to Wales what Bale is to England. Woodburn is born and bred English with a Welsh grandparent, likewise Bale is born and bred Welsh with an English grandparent. The real Orwellian nightmare scenario is seeing a future "Gareth Bale" stride out onto the pitch with the three lions proudly displayed on his shirt...
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Sept 5, 2017 16:04:10 GMT
Do love this! Hope it takes off |
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Post by bale-droed on Sept 5, 2017 16:18:55 GMT
Do love this! Hope it takes off Excuse my shit music knowledge. Is this rocket man |
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Post by bringbackelmo on Sept 5, 2017 16:20:23 GMT
Excuse my shit music knowledge. Is this rocket man Not sure if you're on a wind-up or not but it's Starman by Bowie. |
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Post by melynwy on Sept 5, 2017 16:54:40 GMT
Excuse my shit music knowledge. Is this rocket man ... it's Starman by Bowie. Kind of...! The tune always disappears when these songs are made into a football chant! "Don't Take Me Home" and "Give Me Hope, Joe Allen" don't have much musical resemblance to the original songs by now... Starman is quickly going the same way it seems! Note: Merely observing, not complaining! The chants take on their own life. |
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Post by zenith on Sept 5, 2017 21:17:08 GMT
The new messiah saves us again
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Post by hookd on Sept 5, 2017 22:23:31 GMT
Love the starman song but can you cut the swear word out - Ben is too young to hear that type of obscenity!
Maybe next time we can add ' Everyday when I wake up, I thank the lord Ben Woodburn's Welsh'?
What an absolutely massive impact the lad has had. Bale and Ramsey are off form and we would have been buried without him. Amazing!
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Post by bringbackelmo on Sept 6, 2017 8:23:21 GMT
... it's Starman by Bowie. Kind of...! The tune always disappears when these songs are made into a football chant! "Don't Take Me Home" and "Give Me Hope, Joe Allen" don't have much musical resemblance to the original songs by now... Starman is quickly going the same way it seems! Note: Merely observing, not complaining! The chants take on their own life. Fair point, my (non-Welsh) mate struggled to get his head around the HRK chant last night! |
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Post by massivefloodlights on Sept 6, 2017 11:42:57 GMT
How long has Woody been playing on the right? Have I missed something?
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