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Post by iot on Nov 7, 2021 19:04:21 GMT
Totall disagree with you. From an attaching perspective Woodburn has far more tools to offer than Joniesta. I love Joniesta but he is too limited when we have more attacking options. Dribbling with the ball and getting fouls is simply not enough at the top level. You also need an end product. Woodburn can drive play forward and can finish it from 1 yard or smach it in from 40 yards/ I'd rather have him on the bench if we need a goal! Ampadu another youngster doing well today! Shame our central defenders are having zero game time! Who would have thought two relatively decent 6ft 4inch central defenders would just be left sitting on the bench. I prary they both move soon I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm not saying Jonny has more to offer than Woodburn, only that he offers something different. I think people can often fail to appreciate what Jonny offers in terms of raising the tempo. It's difficult because there aren't tangible things you can point to - he very rarely comes up with assists or goals. But the effect he has on games by raising the tempo can be just as important. Take the games against Azerbaijan and Belarus as examples. We were struggling, plodding the ball around and weren't looking like a threat at all. We bring Jonny on, he starts driving at players and all of a sudden the game is being played at a different pace. We start to see gaps opening up, more chances are created and we ultimately win the games. I've said it before, I don't think we would have won those games without Jonny. If it was Woodburn coming on, he wouldn't offer that same type of contribution - I don't think any of our players could. Woodburn is a completely different type of player. He has excellent quality on the ball, but he doesn't have the same pace, acceleration and iniesta-type dribbling that Jonny provides. |
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Post by cadno on Nov 7, 2021 19:27:50 GMT
Totall disagree with you. From an attaching perspective Woodburn has far more tools to offer than Joniesta. I love Joniesta but he is too limited when we have more attacking options. Dribbling with the ball and getting fouls is simply not enough at the top level. You also need an end product. Woodburn can drive play forward and can finish it from 1 yard or smach it in from 40 yards/ I'd rather have him on the bench if we need a goal! Ampadu another youngster doing well today! Shame our central defenders are having zero game time! Who would have thought two relatively decent 6ft 4inch central defenders would just be left sitting on the bench. I prary they both move soon I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm not saying Jonny has more to offer than Woodburn, only that he offers something different. I think people can often fail to appreciate what Jonny offers in terms of raising the tempo. It's difficult because there aren't tangible things you can point to - he very rarely comes up with assists or goals. But the effect he has on games by raising the tempo can be just as important. Take the games against Azerbaijan and Belarus as examples. We were struggling, plodding the ball around and weren't looking like a threat at all. We bring Jonny on, he starts driving at players and all of a sudden the game is being played at a different pace. We start to see gaps opening up, more chances are created and we ultimately win the games. I've said it before, I don't think we would have won those games without Jonny. If it was Woodburn coming on, he wouldn't offer that same type of contribution - I don't think any of our players could. Woodburn is a completely different type of player. He has excellent quality on the ball, but he doesn't have the same pace, acceleration and iniesta-type dribbling that Jonny provides. Good point, it's not all about goals and assists. Leon Britton is a prime example of this, huge influence without the popular stats to back his performances up. Just watched the highlights of the Hearts game, Woodburn looked good, his 2nd goal was a lovely finish. |
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Post by manulike on Nov 26, 2021 20:21:27 GMT
Benjamin.
Looking forward to Match in March?
#StarMan
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Post by gimli on Dec 5, 2021 15:49:44 GMT
Hooked off after 30 mins today. Hearts fans not impressed with him at all recently judging by social media. Shame because it seemed like he got off to a decent start there, but it looks like consensus on twitter now is that the fans want his loan cancelled in January.
Don't know where that leaves him now. His contract at Liverpool expires in the summer so I imagine a free transfer to League One beckons.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 17:20:43 GMT
Bloody hell that turned around quick,they were praising him to the heavens not a couple of weeks ago.
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Post by quetzal on Dec 5, 2021 17:38:57 GMT
Bloody hell that turned around quick,they were praising him to the heavens not a couple of weeks ago. I’d say we won’t see him in a Welsh shirt again. |
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Post by iantov on Dec 5, 2021 17:44:47 GMT
Bloody hell that turned around quick,they were praising him to the heavens not a couple of weeks ago. I’d say we won’t see him in a Welsh shirt again. That would be a real shame for the young man. |
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Post by hooky on Dec 5, 2021 17:44:57 GMT
It was a tactical substitution.
Its a nonsense! He was playing very well up until a couple of weeks ago! For all they know he may be carrying a knock!
Its like Rabbi and Tyler - maybe they will not achieve what we once thought they could, but having only recently turned 22 and 21 respectively, Woodburn and Rabbi, together with Tyler (22) still have potential to grow!
PS - was a bit shocked how young those 3 still are when I searched their wikipedia pages!
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Post by fiveattheback on Dec 5, 2021 18:48:14 GMT
It was a tactical substitution. Its a nonsense! He was playing very well up until a couple of weeks ago! For all they know he may be carrying a knock! Its like Rabbi and Tyler - maybe they will not achieve what we once thought they could, but having only recently turned 22 and 21 respectively, Woodburn and Rabbi, together with Tyler (22) still have potential to grow! PS - was a bit shocked how young those 3 still are when I searched their wikipedia pages! Exactly, all three are still young men. People expect far too much far too early |
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 5, 2021 19:08:05 GMT
It was a tactical substitution. Its a nonsense! He was playing very well up until a couple of weeks ago! For all they know he may be carrying a knock! Its like Rabbi and Tyler - maybe they will not achieve what we once thought they could, but having only recently turned 22 and 21 respectively, Woodburn and Rabbi, together with Tyler (22) still have potential to grow! PS - was a bit shocked how young those 3 still are when I searched their wikipedia pages! Exactly, all three are still young men. People expect far too much far too early Don’t forget that Wilson was older than Woodburn, Rabbi and Tyler are now before he finally kicked on to being a good player. |
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Post by gimli on Dec 5, 2021 19:41:50 GMT
Yes, I'm certainly not writing Woodburn off. I still have faith that he'll come good, but I think he might have to drop down a level and work his way back up.
He's had unsuccessful loans in the Championship, League One (x2) and now in Scotland (unless he turns it around), so he'll likely struggle to get a move to be a starter at a decent Championship team in the summer. Maybe he'll consider a move abroad to a smaller team in a mid tier league like Belgium or Netherlands.
I think he's been a victim of not really having a settled position. He seems to have played as a #8, #10, winger and striker over the past few seasons. He needs a manager that can work out his best position and fully commits to playing him there.
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Post by jimexotic on Dec 5, 2021 22:30:52 GMT
He could do a lot worse than joining a side like Swansea
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Post by londonexile on Dec 6, 2021 14:37:02 GMT
Yikes. Just put his name into twitter and it doesn't make happy reading from Hearts fans.
My twitter thread also took us back to 2016 and showed him becoming the youngest goalscorer for Liverpool at that time. Starman announced himself.
I make that 4 loan spells now that haven't worked (Sheff Utd, Oxford, Blackpool, Hearts). Loath to write someone off so young but it's not looking good is it? What appears to be the problem? Attitude? I'm gutted how this is playing out as I, like most of us I'd imagine had very high hopes. Still live in hope he can turn it around.
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Post by jimexotic on Dec 6, 2021 15:12:43 GMT
If Wrexham go up......
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Post by welwyn on Dec 6, 2021 15:13:30 GMT
I think the Oxford one was working until he got injured.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 6, 2021 15:30:42 GMT
As stated before Wilson & James have shown that you don't have to burst on the scene before the age of 21 to be a really good player for us. Put Rodon in that category too. Plenty of time for him to become a good player for us, but I think most of us now doubt he will become the superstar we thought he was
As for twitter, I'd ignore whatever they've saying. It's just a bunch of reactionary 13 year olds. If someone is getting slated on twitter they are probably playing average. If they are getting praised on there they have to be good as it's one hell of a negative place at times
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2021 15:33:41 GMT
I'd be more worried if i was a person who actually went on twitter than anything that was said on there.
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Post by iot on Dec 6, 2021 15:57:55 GMT
As stated before Wilson & James have shown that you don't have to burst on the scene before the age of 21 to be a really good player for us. Put Rodon in that category too. Plenty of time for him to become a good player for us, but I think most of us now doubt he will become the superstar we thought he was As for twitter, I'd ignore whatever they've saying. It's just a bunch of reactionary 13 year olds. If someone is getting slated on twitter they are probably playing average. If they are getting praised on there they have to be good as it's one hell of a negative place at times I don't think we can compare him with Wilson. Wilson always produced crazy numbers in terms of goals and assists at u23 level and immediately did so in his loans with Hull and Derby - he had one failed loan at Crewe where barely played, but that was it. Since going off the boil, Woodburn hasn't even been impressing that much at u23 level and has had a succession of bad loan spells. The lack of goals or assists is a real cause for concern. He's very talented and showed with liverpool in preseason that he has fantastic quality on the ball, but he's not cutting it in the forward positions even at an SPL level - and let's not forget we've had players like Church and Doidge bagging goals for fun in that league. So if he can't score at that level, at the age of 22, it's difficult to see how he has a future at a decent level in those forward positions. Personally, I would like to see him having a stint in a deeper position. He played a lot as one of the midfield three for Liverpool in pre season and really impressed. It suits him in a lot of ways, given he's technically so good and carries the ball well, but lacks pace. It's just a case of whether he can do other aspects of that role, but he's never been properly tested there |
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Post by gimli on Dec 6, 2021 16:20:22 GMT
As stated before Wilson & James have shown that you don't have to burst on the scene before the age of 21 to be a really good player for us. Put Rodon in that category too. Plenty of time for him to become a good player for us, but I think most of us now doubt he will become the superstar we thought he was As for twitter, I'd ignore whatever they've saying. It's just a bunch of reactionary 13 year olds. If someone is getting slated on twitter they are probably playing average. If they are getting praised on there they have to be good as it's one hell of a negative place at times I don't think we can compare him with Wilson. Wilson always produced crazy numbers in terms of goals and assists at u23 level and immediately did so in his loans with Hull and Derby - he had one failed loan at Crewe where barely played, but that was it. Since going off the boil, Woodburn hasn't even been impressing that much at u23 level and has had a succession of bad loan spells. The lack of goals or assists is a real cause for concern. He's very talented and showed with liverpool in preseason that he has fantastic quality on the ball, but he's not cutting it in the forward positions even at an SPL level - and let's not forget we've had players like Church and Doidge bagging goals for fun in that league. So if he can't score at that level, at the age of 22, it's difficult to see how he has a future at a decent level in those forward positions. Personally, I would like to see him having a stint in a deeper position. He played a lot as one of the midfield three for Liverpool in pre season and really impressed. It suits him in a lot of ways, given he's technically so good and carries the ball well, but lacks pace. It's just a case of whether he can do other aspects of that role, but he's never been properly tested there Agreed. I think his long term future will be as an 8. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 7, 2021 21:26:08 GMT
As stated before Wilson & James have shown that you don't have to burst on the scene before the age of 21 to be a really good player for us. Put Rodon in that category too. Plenty of time for him to become a good player for us, but I think most of us now doubt he will become the superstar we thought he was As for twitter, I'd ignore whatever they've saying. It's just a bunch of reactionary 13 year olds. If someone is getting slated on twitter they are probably playing average. If they are getting praised on there they have to be good as it's one hell of a negative place at times I don't think we can compare him with Wilson. Wilson always produced crazy numbers in terms of goals and assists at u23 level and immediately did so in his loans with Hull and Derby - he had one failed loan at Crewe where barely played, but that was it. Since going off the boil, Woodburn hasn't even been impressing that much at u23 level and has had a succession of bad loan spells. The lack of goals or assists is a real cause for concern. He's very talented and showed with liverpool in preseason that he has fantastic quality on the ball, but he's not cutting it in the forward positions even at an SPL level - and let's not forget we've had players like Church and Doidge bagging goals for fun in that league. So if he can't score at that level, at the age of 22, it's difficult to see how he has a future at a decent level in those forward positions. Personally, I would like to see him having a stint in a deeper position. He played a lot as one of the midfield three for Liverpool in pre season and really impressed. It suits him in a lot of ways, given he's technically so good and carries the ball well, but lacks pace. It's just a case of whether he can do other aspects of that role, but he's never been properly tested there I agree that he is more of a midfielder than a forward |
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Post by manulike on Jan 29, 2022 19:29:34 GMT
Back from five weeks out injured.
Played the last 30'
#WatchOutAustria
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Post by hooky on Apr 16, 2022 11:57:47 GMT
The one player I seem to have been wrong about is Ben Woodburn
He stood out from 15 through to 17/18 amongst the Welsh youngsters but has made no progress since
Its sad to see him on the bench for Hearts.
What was it with him? Injuries permanently impeding his fitness, attitude, lack of game intelligence.
I guess Liverpool will end up letting him go on a free and he'll end up in the first division or something.
So sad as he seemed to have everything !
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Post by fiveattheback on Apr 16, 2022 13:29:04 GMT
Only 22, next move needs to be a good one though
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Post by iot on Apr 16, 2022 17:54:28 GMT
The one player I seem to have been wrong about is Ben Woodburn He stood out from 15 through to 17/18 amongst the Welsh youngsters but has made no progress since Its sad to see him on the bench for Hearts. What was it with him? Injuries permanently impeding his fitness, attitude, lack of game intelligence. I guess Liverpool will end up letting him go on a free and he'll end up in the first division or something. So sad as he seemed to have everything ! I still don't think he's figured out what type of player he is. I don't think he has a future as a wide forward, he doesn't have the pace and seems to lack a killer instinct too. He has fantastic technique, so maybe he should consider dropping deeper. He's played quite a bit for liverpool in midfield during preseason games and did really well, but that's just preseason. |
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Post by dai on Apr 17, 2022 16:01:48 GMT
Yeah, he's only 22, but the evidence doesn't make great reading does it? And 'his next move being important' is not relevant - he's had PLENTY of opportunities at various clubs now.
He's failed to make an impression at Championship and League 1 level, as well as in the Scottish Prem. If Hedges can become one of the best players in the SPL, and Woodburn can't even come off the bench, it's not good. (not putting down Hedges btw)
Unfortunately, something is badly amiss with him. I firmly believe he has, or had the talent, so the only reason I can think of, is a serious lack of work ethic and poor attitude.
I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually ends up playing in the Welsh Prem, or the national league in a few years.
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Post by insertname on Apr 17, 2022 20:18:15 GMT
Only 22, next move needs to be a good one though I’m not sure that’s going to happen. His best bet will be to find an upwardly mobile club in league 2 and try and re-build. He had a fairly ineffectual spell at Oxford, not really pulled up trees at Hearts. It will be tough for him to find somewhere where he’ll play regularly any higher than league 2 now imo. He just might end up taking a bit more of a circuitous route back to the upper tiers of the game. Maybe the fleeting initial game he found has worked against him in a way. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 17, 2022 23:13:12 GMT
The most surprising thing about his lack of upturn in his career since Austria, is how little we've actually needed him to come good. At a point it felt like the only top young attackers up and coming for us were Woodburn, Brooks & Wilson. We've been very lucky to have the depth of talent we've had at the end of the pitch
I think it's time Woodburn joins a team permanently in League Two. It's sink or swim time - it's what he needs. He could still end up being a decent player, and could make future squads, but he needs a fire lit under him to make it happen
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Post by smudger11 on Apr 17, 2022 23:35:23 GMT
Woodburn is not consistent enough and needs to go National League and see where it takes him.
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Post by gimli on Apr 18, 2022 10:00:13 GMT
Some overreactions here I think. Yes he hasn't lived up to his potential yet, but saying he needs to drop down to the National League is a bit extreme!
I'm sure he could easily be a regular starter in League One. The only reason his previous loans at that level failed were because of injury. His contract expires at the end of the season and I'm sure he'll have a long queue of League One clubs after him, and probably even a few Championship ones who fancy a low risk high reward punt.
The only League Two club I'll accept him going to is Wrexham if they get promoted.
I'm hoping he'll abroad though. Following Rabbi to Belgium wouldn't be a bad option.
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Post by robin1864 on Apr 19, 2022 17:11:02 GMT
I wouldn't mind him at Wrexham if we went up. He could easily thrive under less pressure with the media spotlight off him, but coming to us would effectively end his Wales career.
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