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Post by njdragon on Aug 25, 2022 11:00:39 GMT
You all know that footballers don't live in their own little bubble do what you want world right? sometimes in life if you act like an irresponsible cunt you have to pay the price,and sometimes never playing for your country again is that price. Bet you wouldn't be saying that if this was bale or ramsey |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 25, 2022 15:15:13 GMT
With Brooks and Wilson unavailable then Lawrence should be called up if the decision is purely football based. I've no idea what off-field issues there may be though. One thing is for sure, posting Union Jack emojis should not preclude his selection. Think Brooks will be available for the next squad, and honestly think Broadhead and Woodburn will be ahead of Lawrence given their age |
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Post by evans1282 on Aug 25, 2022 15:28:34 GMT
One thing is for sure- when he isn’t called up for the next double header Page is going to be asked to justify his selection far more robustly than he has ever been in the past so we may get more insight into what’s going on. Really?Page doesn't have to justify anything,about Lawrence,end of! |
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Post by jbt95 on Aug 25, 2022 15:34:01 GMT
With Brooks and Wilson unavailable then Lawrence should be called up if the decision is purely football based. I've no idea what off-field issues there may be though. One thing is for sure, posting Union Jack emojis should not preclude his selection. Think Brooks will be available for the next squad, and honestly think Broadhead and Woodburn will be ahead of Lawrence given their age No way is Brooks playing v Belgium after being out for over a year. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Aug 25, 2022 15:47:44 GMT
One thing is for sure- when he isn’t called up for the next double header Page is going to be asked to justify his selection far more robustly than he has ever been in the past so we may get more insight into what’s going on. Really?Page doesn't have to justify anything,about Lawrence,end of! Why doesn't he? |
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Post by evans1282 on Aug 25, 2022 16:21:21 GMT
Really?Page doesn't have to justify anything,about Lawrence,end of! Why doesn't he? Don't see how on the cusp of a world Cup,he needs to answer questions about fringe players,distraction at best,shit stirring at worst. |
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Post by insertname on Aug 25, 2022 17:28:09 GMT
One thing is for sure- when he isn’t called up for the next double header Page is going to be asked to justify his selection far more robustly than he has ever been in the past so we may get more insight into what’s going on. Really?Page doesn't have to justify anything,about Lawrence,end of! Why do you think the manager is obliged to carry out media duties, including press conferences? To discuss the weather? He will be asked by the media about Lawrence and how he responds will most likely indicate the nature of the situation than what he actually says. |
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Post by evans1282 on Aug 25, 2022 18:00:58 GMT
Really?Page doesn't have to justify anything,about Lawrence,end of! Why do you think the manager is obliged to carry out media duties, including press conferences? To discuss the weather? He will be asked by the media about Lawrence and how he responds will most likely indicate the nature of the situation than what he actually says. If he doesn't select him simple answer is ,I'm here to discuss the squad not waste time on people not selected. |
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Post by insertname on Aug 25, 2022 18:57:48 GMT
Why do you think the manager is obliged to carry out media duties, including press conferences? To discuss the weather? He will be asked by the media about Lawrence and how he responds will most likely indicate the nature of the situation than what he actually says. If he doesn't select him simple answer is ,I'm here to discuss the squad not waste time on people not selected. Which will pretty much confirm that there is an issue there |
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Post by evans1282 on Aug 25, 2022 19:40:45 GMT
If he doesn't select him simple answer is ,I'm here to discuss the squad not waste time on people not selected. Which will pretty much confirm that there is an issue there In all seriousness, why isn't the manager not selecting him enough?Hasn't he earned the right to pick who he wants?If there is any dirty linen to be aired,I can respect he doesn't want to do this in public.Or do you want a huge he said he said bs sesh just before the biggest tournament in Wales history? |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Aug 25, 2022 19:56:43 GMT
Which will pretty much confirm that there is an issue there In all seriousness, why isn't the manager not selecting him enough?Hasn't he earned the right to pick who he wants?If there is any dirty linen to be aired,I can respect he doesn't want to do this in public.Or do you want a huge he said he said bs sesh just before the biggest tournament in Wales history? I've no problem with Page not selecting Lawrence for valid reasons. I think it's more than reasonable for Page to be questioned on why he isn't picking someone on form in a position we're currently light in. If indeed Page doesn't select him next month. |
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Post by insertname on Aug 25, 2022 20:37:50 GMT
Which will pretty much confirm that there is an issue there In all seriousness, why isn't the manager not selecting him enough?Hasn't he earned the right to pick who he wants?If there is any dirty linen to be aired,I can respect he doesn't want to do this in public.Or do you want a huge he said he said bs sesh just before the biggest tournament in Wales history? It doesn’t bother me either way really, I’m just making the observation that the better Lawrence performs the more intense the scrutiny will become. Page can deal with that how he likes, the problem he will have is that as a usually very candid speaker to the media a simple “no comment” or “that’s my decision” is going to look like it’s not a purely footballing decision. |
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Post by bale-droed on Aug 26, 2022 0:02:11 GMT
Was hoping they’d end up in Inter Milan’s group. Him and Rabbi would’ve had a hell of a chance to show what they can do then! But they both must be happy with that draw.
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Post by underwood on Aug 26, 2022 6:43:29 GMT
If he shows well against Ajax & Liverpool, Page can’t ignore him.
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Post by Dubai Reds on Aug 26, 2022 6:54:36 GMT
With Brooks and Wilson unavailable then Lawrence should be called up if the decision is purely football based. I've no idea what off-field issues there may be though. One thing is for sure, posting Union Jack emojis should not preclude his selection. Think Brooks will be available for the next squad, and honestly think Broadhead and Woodburn will be ahead of Lawrence given their age Tom Lawrence is 28, hardly retirement age. He is much better than Woodburn and Broadhead who are League 1 at best, and yet to show consistency and tearing it up at that level. They have not developed the way we wanted them to 5 years ago, and should only be in the squad now on performance merit. We have enough of a player pool where it should be based on merit and form and not a "closed shop" as it was once, it's a good position to be in, especially qualifying for tournaments. But to go off your point, if we are putting in players for the sake of it because of age for development and exposure, we would be better off putting in Charlie Savage, Owen Beck and Luke Harris to fill up the squad. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Aug 26, 2022 6:58:43 GMT
The development argument is entirely spurious for as long as we continue to pick Gunter.
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Post by CrackityJones on Aug 26, 2022 7:06:56 GMT
The tournament is in 3 months. We won’t pick a squad based on development, we pick the squad of players bang in form and ready to go.
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Post by evans1282 on Aug 26, 2022 8:25:00 GMT
Think Brooks will be available for the next squad, and honestly think Broadhead and Woodburn will be ahead of Lawrence given their age Tom Lawrence is 28, hardly retirement age. He is much better than Woodburn and Broadhead who are League 1 at best, and yet to show consistency and tearing it up at that level. They have not developed the way we wanted them to 5 years ago, and should only be in the squad now on performance merit. We have enough of a player pool where it should be based on merit and form and not a "closed shop" as it was once, it's a good position to be in, especially qualifying for tournaments. But to go off your point, if we are putting in players for the sake of it because of age for development and exposure, we would be better off putting in Charlie Savage, Owen Beck and Luke Harris to fill up the squad. Weakness in your argument is that he's not really competing with Woodburn and Broadhead,as for the closed shop,it's a fine line between creating a strong group mentality,and your idea of closed shop.Lawrence has been included and has played,not set the world on fire for me and maybe he just doesn't"fit".A large part of our development as a country has been this tight group mentality,I think its this difference that is the key to our way,and as I have said previously I am happy to defer to the manager and our system on this. |
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Post by insertname on Aug 26, 2022 11:04:19 GMT
Tom Lawrence is 28, hardly retirement age. He is much better than Woodburn and Broadhead who are League 1 at best, and yet to show consistency and tearing it up at that level. They have not developed the way we wanted them to 5 years ago, and should only be in the squad now on performance merit. We have enough of a player pool where it should be based on merit and form and not a "closed shop" as it was once, it's a good position to be in, especially qualifying for tournaments. But to go off your point, if we are putting in players for the sake of it because of age for development and exposure, we would be better off putting in Charlie Savage, Owen Beck and Luke Harris to fill up the squad. Weakness in your argument is that he's not really competing with Woodburn and Broadhead,as for the closed shop,it's a fine line between creating a strong group mentality,and your idea of closed shop.Lawrence has been included and has played,not set the world on fire for me and maybe he just doesn't"fit".A large part of our development as a country has been this tight group mentality,I think its this difference that is the key to our way,and as I have said previously I am happy to defer to the manager and our system on this. All this talk of “spirit” and “camps” makes it sound like some immense feat of psychological and physical endurance like a year spent in the arctic circle trying to circum-navigate the north west passage…when actually it’s a load of blokes, all well insulated from the cost of living crisis, staying in world class facilities for 4 weeks. It must be a struggle finding people with the right mindset who can cope etc |
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Post by iot on Aug 26, 2022 11:47:16 GMT
Weakness in your argument is that he's not really competing with Woodburn and Broadhead,as for the closed shop,it's a fine line between creating a strong group mentality,and your idea of closed shop.Lawrence has been included and has played,not set the world on fire for me and maybe he just doesn't"fit".A large part of our development as a country has been this tight group mentality,I think its this difference that is the key to our way,and as I have said previously I am happy to defer to the manager and our system on this. All this talk of “spirit” and “camps” makes it sound like some immense feat of psychological and physical endurance like a year spent in the arctic circle trying to circum-navigate the north west passage…when actually it’s a load of blokes, all well insulated from the cost of living crisis, staying in world class facilities for 4 weeks. It must be a struggle finding people with the right mindset who can cope etc I find that so strange. You don't think the type of environment within the camp and the bond between players has any impact on team performances and the extent which they pull together, understand each other, and fight for each other? I don't care how many times it needs to be said, I'll say it every time someone tries to dumb down squad selection into a simple assessment of who the best / most in-form set of 23/26 players are - there are other factors at play! Sure, ability and form are the main ones, but leadership skills, personalities, styles of play and countless other factors also form part of the equation. It beggars belief that people still don't get that despite what they've seen with their own eyes in Page's time at the helm, and Coleman before him, where the whole has been so much greater than the sum of its parts - leading us to an euros semi final, last 16, and our first world cup in 60+ years. By securing the tight-knit group, our performances are that much more cohesive and competitive, giving us an edge over higher quality opposition on countless occasions. |
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Post by Dubai Reds on Aug 26, 2022 11:54:34 GMT
Tom Lawrence is 28, hardly retirement age. He is much better than Woodburn and Broadhead who are League 1 at best, and yet to show consistency and tearing it up at that level. They have not developed the way we wanted them to 5 years ago, and should only be in the squad now on performance merit. We have enough of a player pool where it should be based on merit and form and not a "closed shop" as it was once, it's a good position to be in, especially qualifying for tournaments. But to go off your point, if we are putting in players for the sake of it because of age for development and exposure, we would be better off putting in Charlie Savage, Owen Beck and Luke Harris to fill up the squad. Weakness in your argument is that he's not really competing with Woodburn and Broadhead,as for the closed shop,it's a fine line between creating a strong group mentality,and your idea of closed shop.Lawrence has been included and has played,not set the world on fire for me and maybe he just doesn't"fit".A large part of our development as a country has been this tight group mentality,I think its this difference that is the key to our way,and as I have said previously I am happy to defer to the manager and our system on this. I did not say he was competing with Woodburn or Broadhead, the previous person I quoted said they would rather them in the squad, and dismissed Lawrence based on age. I agree and it's clear that for a decade we have had a tight group, which can also be seen as a "closed shop" to a point. If you are calling up the same names without any merit or form, playing in League 2 and just for "cheerleading" reasons, is it a surprise there are a few pissed-off fringe players playing well in the Championship but not getting a look in? It is a fine-line as you say, and there are 2 ways of looking at it, and it did work for a long period before we had the depth, but it could be damaging if it continues as it was, especially with a larger player pool. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Aug 26, 2022 12:02:58 GMT
All this talk of “spirit” and “camps” makes it sound like some immense feat of psychological and physical endurance like a year spent in the arctic circle trying to circum-navigate the north west passage…when actually it’s a load of blokes, all well insulated from the cost of living crisis, staying in world class facilities for 4 weeks. It must be a struggle finding people with the right mindset who can cope etc I find that so strange. You don't think the type of environment within the camp and the bond between players has any impact on team performances and the extent which they pull together, understand each other, and fight for each other? I don't care how many times it needs to be said, I'll say it every time someone tries to dumb down squad selection into a simple assessment of who the best / most in-form set of 23/26 players are - there are other factors at play! Sure, ability and form are the main ones, but leadership skills, personalities, styles of play and countless other factors also form part of the equation. It beggars belief that people still don't get that despite what they've seen with their own eyes in Page's time at the helm, and Coleman before him, where the whole has been so much greater than the sum of its parts - leading us to an euros semi final, last 16, and our first world cup in 60+ years. By securing the tight-knit group, our performances are that much more cohesive and competitive, giving us an edge over higher quality opposition on countless occasions. I agree with this. But the manager is bound to be asked about squad selection and should be able to answer with a good degree of honesty. |
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Post by evans1282 on Aug 26, 2022 12:07:18 GMT
I find that so strange. You don't think the type of environment within the camp and the bond between players has any impact on team performances and the extent which they pull together, understand each other, and fight for each other? I don't care how many times it needs to be said, I'll say it every time someone tries to dumb down squad selection into a simple assessment of who the best / most in-form set of 23/26 players are - there are other factors at play! Sure, ability and form are the main ones, but leadership skills, personalities, styles of play and countless other factors also form part of the equation. It beggars belief that people still don't get that despite what they've seen with their own eyes in Page's time at the helm, and Coleman before him, where the whole has been so much greater than the sum of its parts - leading us to an euros semi final, last 16, and our first world cup in 60+ years. By securing the tight-knit group, our performances are that much more cohesive and competitive, giving us an edge over higher quality opposition on countless occasions. I agree with this. But the manager is bound to be asked about squad selection and should be able to answer with a good degree of honesty. Possible for him to be completely honest and say next to nothing," I'm happy with my squad selection bottom line my experience together with my staff,has selected this squad." |
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Post by evans1282 on Aug 26, 2022 12:13:05 GMT
Weakness in your argument is that he's not really competing with Woodburn and Broadhead,as for the closed shop,it's a fine line between creating a strong group mentality,and your idea of closed shop.Lawrence has been included and has played,not set the world on fire for me and maybe he just doesn't"fit".A large part of our development as a country has been this tight group mentality,I think its this difference that is the key to our way,and as I have said previously I am happy to defer to the manager and our system on this. I did not say he was competing with Woodburn or Broadhead, the previous person I quoted said they would rather them in the squad, and dismissed Lawrence based on age. I agree and it's clear that for a decade we have had a tight group, which can also be seen as a "closed shop" to a point. If you are calling up the same names without any merit or form, playing in League 2 and just for "cheerleading" reasons, is it a surprise there are a few pissed-off fringe players playing well in the Championship but not getting a look in? It is a fine-line as you say, and there are 2 ways of looking at it, and it did work for a long period before we had the depth, but it could be damaging if it continues as it was, especially with a larger player pool. The league position of a player is not always based on ability,let me clarify,you have to he able to play at that level but it's not always your ability that gets you there.I remember under Tosh a fella Collins at Stoke bemoaning that he playing for Stoke in the Premier league was overlooked for "championship " players,Tosh answered there's a difference between a Premier league player, and someone who plays in the Premier league,wasn't his biggest fan as Wales manager,but I agreed with that comment. |
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Post by insertname on Aug 26, 2022 12:46:44 GMT
All this talk of “spirit” and “camps” makes it sound like some immense feat of psychological and physical endurance like a year spent in the arctic circle trying to circum-navigate the north west passage…when actually it’s a load of blokes, all well insulated from the cost of living crisis, staying in world class facilities for 4 weeks. It must be a struggle finding people with the right mindset who can cope etc I find that so strange. You don't think the type of environment within the camp and the bond between players has any impact on team performances and the extent which they pull together, understand each other, and fight for each other? I don't care how many times it needs to be said, I'll say it every time someone tries to dumb down squad selection into a simple assessment of who the best / most in-form set of 23/26 players are - there are other factors at play! Sure, ability and form are the main ones, but leadership skills, personalities, styles of play and countless other factors also form part of the equation. It beggars belief that people still don't get that despite what they've seen with their own eyes in Page's time at the helm, and Coleman before him, where the whole has been so much greater than the sum of its parts - leading us to an euros semi final, last 16, and our first world cup in 60+ years. By securing the tight-knit group, our performances are that much more cohesive and competitive, giving us an edge over higher quality opposition on countless occasions. It’s more the way it’s talked up, than the method, although I am fully on the side of the people who are against calling up the likes of Gunter. Hearing people talk about it if you didn’t know it was football you’d think it was something far less frivolous than what it is- up to 4 weeks at a World Cup. “Togetherness”, “spirit”, “the bond”, “the camp”. It’s all very melodramatic when you look at the context imo (and unfortunately the struggles people will genuinely be going through in the UK when the World Cup takes place), especially for Wales who have no pressure on them whatsoever. I can understand it a bit more for England because they are under massive pressure and will be character assassinated for failure, for us it all seems a bit OTT. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Aug 26, 2022 13:30:32 GMT
I find that so strange. You don't think the type of environment within the camp and the bond between players has any impact on team performances and the extent which they pull together, understand each other, and fight for each other? I don't care how many times it needs to be said, I'll say it every time someone tries to dumb down squad selection into a simple assessment of who the best / most in-form set of 23/26 players are - there are other factors at play! Sure, ability and form are the main ones, but leadership skills, personalities, styles of play and countless other factors also form part of the equation. It beggars belief that people still don't get that despite what they've seen with their own eyes in Page's time at the helm, and Coleman before him, where the whole has been so much greater than the sum of its parts - leading us to an euros semi final, last 16, and our first world cup in 60+ years. By securing the tight-knit group, our performances are that much more cohesive and competitive, giving us an edge over higher quality opposition on countless occasions. It’s more the way it’s talked up, than the method, although I am fully on the side of the people who are against calling up the likes of Gunter. Hearing people talk about it if you didn’t know it was football you’d think it was something far less frivolous than what it is- up to 4 weeks at a World Cup. “Togetherness”, “spirit”, “the bond”, “the camp”. It’s all very melodramatic when you look at the context imo (and unfortunately the struggles people will genuinely be going through in the UK when the World Cup takes place), especially for Wales who have no pressure on them whatsoever. I can understand it a bit more for England because they are under massive pressure and will be character assassinated for failure, for us it all seems a bit OTT. Sorry but that's just not how teams work, at any level or in any profession. Team culture is so, so important. And if Lawrence isn't picked because of his negative impact on team culture then fair enough. But equally fair is the questioning of Page by fans and the media. None of this subservient "in Pagey we trust" nonsense, which ironically is often a symptom of a poor culture. |
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Post by welshfootball on Aug 26, 2022 14:33:22 GMT
From a football perspective I think the change from Derby to Rangers has been good for him. New teammates and management staff so plenty of people to ask how he’s settling in.
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Post by iot on Aug 26, 2022 14:37:20 GMT
It’s more the way it’s talked up, than the method, although I am fully on the side of the people who are against calling up the likes of Gunter. Hearing people talk about it if you didn’t know it was football you’d think it was something far less frivolous than what it is- up to 4 weeks at a World Cup. “Togetherness”, “spirit”, “the bond”, “the camp”. It’s all very melodramatic when you look at the context imo (and unfortunately the struggles people will genuinely be going through in the UK when the World Cup takes place), especially for Wales who have no pressure on them whatsoever. I can understand it a bit more for England because they are under massive pressure and will be character assassinated for failure, for us it all seems a bit OTT. Sorry but that's just not how teams work, at any level or in any profession. Team culture is so, so important. And if Lawrence isn't picked because of his negative impact on team culture then fair enough. But equally fair is the questioning of Page by fans and the media. None of this subservient "in Pagey we trust" nonsense, which ironically is often a symptom of a poor culture. Completely agree with all of that until the final sentence. It's absolutely fair game for journos to ask the question, but also fair for Page to respond with vague generalities if he thinks airing dirty laundry would do more harm than good |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 26, 2022 16:11:41 GMT
Think Brooks will be available for the next squad, and honestly think Broadhead and Woodburn will be ahead of Lawrence given their age No way is Brooks playing v Belgium after being out for over a year. That absolutely does not mean he won't be called into the squad. He was with the squad at the Ukraine game in an unofficial capacity don't forget. Now that he's training with Bournemouth 1st team I find it very unlikely for him to not be called up this time |
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Post by insertname on Aug 26, 2022 16:18:43 GMT
It’s more the way it’s talked up, than the method, although I am fully on the side of the people who are against calling up the likes of Gunter. Hearing people talk about it if you didn’t know it was football you’d think it was something far less frivolous than what it is- up to 4 weeks at a World Cup. “Togetherness”, “spirit”, “the bond”, “the camp”. It’s all very melodramatic when you look at the context imo (and unfortunately the struggles people will genuinely be going through in the UK when the World Cup takes place), especially for Wales who have no pressure on them whatsoever. I can understand it a bit more for England because they are under massive pressure and will be character assassinated for failure, for us it all seems a bit OTT. Sorry but that's just not how teams work, at any level or in any profession. Team culture is so, so important. And if Lawrence isn't picked because of his negative impact on team culture then fair enough. But equally fair is the questioning of Page by fans and the media. None of this subservient "in Pagey we trust" nonsense, which ironically is often a symptom of a poor culture. I would have thought being from a small country with a history of being subjugated by it’s neighbour, with a chance to appear on a big stage and make a name for itself would have done most of the leg work in that respect without any of the rest of the extra stuff bolted on. Perhaps that’s what I object to most actually, thinking about it. Given Wales history a strong team culture should be baked in by default without the extra “fluffing” by picking people mainly because they are good friends with core squad members. The cause should bring unity in and of itself irrespective of anything else. |
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