|
|
Post by walrus on Jul 27, 2012 23:20:30 GMT
Academy? What , like Middlesbrough and West Ham do you mean? Where did it get them.
Swansea need Welsh players and Allen is a great welsh player. Hope he doesn't get the Bodde curse of being injured in the midst of a big money deal.
Anyway back to the point. I still haven't read a convincing argument why Allen would be better off as a player at Liverpool. Forget the money and the history , why would he be better off playing at liverpool than at swansea?
I'll start by stating the obvious that Rodger's style of play suits Allen.
But counter it with, we expect Laudrup to be broadly similar in style.
Over to you
|
|
|
|
Post by Baxter Cymru on Jul 28, 2012 0:04:12 GMT
More chance of European football would that be a fair argument?
|
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Jul 28, 2012 6:37:00 GMT
He 'd have a much better chance of that at Tottenham and he's already playing european football with wales. If he waits a season or two he could play at a CL club. And as Spurs have shown they only play their reserves in the Uefa cup so its hardly a priority.
|
|
|
|
Post by alarch on Jul 28, 2012 9:59:33 GMT
I'm not sure if your comment is directed at me Walrus, because I, like you, would much prefer to see Allen stay. I also think it would be in his interests to stay, for one more season at least. However, I have a feeling that Laudrup sees things differently - and, regardless of what you or I want, if Allen wants to go, and the contractual buy-out fee is met, then he will be on his way.
No academy is guaranteed to succeed. However, if the football philosophy is sufficiently distinct I can see it paying dividends, perhaps more so for Wales.
Going off on a tangent, I was really impressed with The New Saints against Helsingborg. Ok, so they have a few unreformed hoof-ball merchants (yes, you guessed it, Steve Evans). But generally, they played some cultured football, and were a real credit to the Welsh Premier, and unlucky to lose 3-0 on aggregate.
The gradual move within Welsh grass roots football generally towards a more continental style of play is great news for our long-term prospects. But it also helps to have the teams at the top of the footballing tree singing from the same hymn sheet. In that respect, the manner of Swansea's success can only be good for Welsh football. Hopefully, the other leading professional teams can follow suit with time. Although only Wrexham, it would seem to me, seem to be have a style of play at the moment that is vaguely reminiscent of continental footie.
|
|
|
|
Post by abwales on Jul 28, 2012 10:20:43 GMT
Moving to a bigger club and playing with better players will obviously make him better, and Swansea players are not as good as those at Liverpool and Spurs, playing in Europe will also be great for him. There's no way he should stay at the Swans. Yes, he could choke, but I'm confident he has the mentality and ability to play for clubs like Spurs & Liverpool.
|
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Jul 28, 2012 10:36:42 GMT
Not aimed at you alarch but pals of mine are saying the same thing and i'm not convinced that academies are the panacea unless as you say they are sufficiently distinct and focused;and all the better if welsh club academies were all doing the same. The evidence is that you are better off having a very wealthy owner.
The other beef i've got is that allen, unlike say Andy Carroll or a plethora of other failures at liverpool, is automically considered better off going there when the trend at liverpool has been in the other direction. Spurs it has to be said are on the up and i would be happier for allen to go there as they are a club on the rise with a bright young manager. Liverpool might turn things around under Rodgers but currently they are a only slightly better than swansea have a dearth of quality players and Gerrard is in his twilight. Meanwhile swansea took four out of six off liverpool last season. So much for a so called bigger club!.
The third argument is that very few considered that following a football team loses its meaning somewhat when the players are all outsiders and for that reason Swansea would urge allen to stay. the more welsh the better and the more west walians the better.
Finally what has football become when a team like Swansea has the eyes picked out of it as soon as it becomes successful. Football is rotten on this point. Any team is a multi billionaire away from success, thats all it takes. But meanwhile teams like swansea and Norwich and many others who have guided themselves back sensibly can no longer compete because they dont have an oil baron.
So it is galling to hear people so easily trade this kid around without any consideration. It's that unthinking football speak pure and simple and perhaps that is what irks me most.
|
|
|
|
Post by idiot on Jul 28, 2012 12:39:44 GMT
i dont think its a bad move for him,in football timing is crucial,he stays another year at swansea they have a bad season,he goes off the boil,finds himself on the bench the move wont be reignited and we have potentially lost one of our most exciting up and coming players
i think its a decent time to move,swansea wont emulate what they did last year and personally i think rodgers could become a really good manager,given time and backing by the fans i think he can improve liverpool,rodgers will know what allen's about and will have the confidence to play him,if he goes elsewhere he might find himself on the bench a lot
jacks??he was on the bench a lot in the first half os the season wasnt he???he wasnt a regular starter to begin with was he?
|
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Jul 28, 2012 18:01:36 GMT
I think any player should look to move club if he thinks it can improve him as a player and a man.
I don't know if Liverpool is a good move. My attitude would be; go, play well, get more exposure and look to move on again in a year or so. It would certainly be more likely for him to get a move to an elite project on the back of a good season at Liverpool than it would at Swansea.
|
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Jul 28, 2012 18:26:38 GMT
SPURS TARGET JOE ALLEN
After pinching Gylfi Sigurdsson from under Liverpool's nose earlier this summer, the Daily Star is claiming that Spurs want to sign Joe Allen from Swansea.
With Modric set to depart, Andre Villas-Boas is scouring the market for midfield targets and, interestingly, Allen is available to Tottenham for a lower price than Liverpool would have to pay.
According to The Star: 'Starsport understands the 21-year-old midfielder's buy-out clause is £10m if any club other than Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or the two Manchester sides move in - 50 per cent less than the others must pay.'
We imagine Brendan Rodgers will be rather cross if Spurs steal another of his transfer targets.
------------
Interesting development. But it is the star, so it's probably bollocks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2012 20:09:00 GMT
SPURS TARGET JOE ALLEN After pinching Gylfi Sigurdsson from under Liverpool's nose earlier this summer, the Daily Star is claiming that Spurs want to sign Joe Allen from Swansea. With Modric set to depart, Andre Villas-Boas is scouring the market for midfield targets and, interestingly, Allen is available to Tottenham for a lower price than Liverpool would have to pay. According to The Star: 'Starsport understands the 21-year-old midfielder's buy-out clause is £10m if any club other than Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or the two Manchester sides move in - 50 per cent less than the others must pay.' We imagine Brendan Rodgers will be rather cross if Spurs steal another of his transfer targets. ------------ Interesting development. But it is the star, so it's probably bollocks. I'm sure Gareth Bale would like that outcome. But like you said, it is The Star! |
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Aug 7, 2012 21:06:29 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by abwales on Aug 7, 2012 21:42:25 GMT
Love it. Its great seeing someone like Laudrup, who actually knows what he's on about say it! FSG got the club on the cheap but they didn't half blow a fortune on crappy players.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Aug 7, 2012 21:46:16 GMT
For 20 million, it is absolutely the right decision to sell him. But they need to make sure they get it up front, in full.
|
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Aug 8, 2012 4:55:19 GMT
I would agree at 20 million and would then happily eat my hat as promised earlier this year. Great to see Laudrup have this attitude and Swansea would be mugs to let allen go for less than Henderson was bought. M.L. is certainly not doffing his cap to liverpool and unlike many on here is asserting that Allen is at the right club already and that Liverpool are the chancers we know them to be.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baxter Cymru on Aug 9, 2012 15:08:11 GMT
Liverpool have bid 15million which matches Joe Allens release clause, they can now talk to the player.
Talksport saying that according to reports in Wales that Joe Allen has asked to leave the liberty, a deal will be completed very soon IMO!
|
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Aug 9, 2012 22:43:06 GMT
Well at least he will playing under a good coach and swans are well compensated but once again football is the loser.
|
|
|
|
Post by idiot on Aug 9, 2012 22:57:45 GMT
Well at least he will playing under a good coach and swans are well compensated but once again football is the loser. yeah at least he will be under a coach who knows the lads abilities so rodgers will have the confidence to play him liverpool arent in the greatest shape but its still a decent enough club to sign for,there isnt really a lot of competition for places at the club so hopefully once he finds he's feet he will become a bit of a regular |
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Aug 10, 2012 8:21:48 GMT
He's young, Welsh, and will be seen as a favourite of the manager's. He could be scapegoated within weeks.
|
|
|
|
Post by BA Baracus on Aug 10, 2012 10:07:27 GMT
Allen was at Anfield last night watching the match.
|
|
|
|
Post by marsvolta on Aug 10, 2012 20:13:52 GMT
is £15million the record transfer for a welsh player?
|
|
|
|
Post by Baxter Cymru on Aug 10, 2012 20:32:07 GMT
is £15million the record transfer for a welsh player? Yes mate! Good move for Joe. |
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Aug 11, 2012 1:55:16 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Aug 11, 2012 9:34:54 GMT
I disagree. Football is a sport that also operates as part of the entertainment industry - in this context, the wages are pretty mediocre. If Joe Allen can earn more with a different company, why shouldn't he? My only objection is that high earners should be taxed at an appropriate rate - but this applies to everyone in society, so to highlight footballers is wrong. Lawton comes across as having the same agenda as many football writers; he absolutely despises working class people for having the audacity to earn more than he ever will. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 17:58:06 GMT
If it all goes to plan for Rodgers, then I believe Joe Allen could be the player that Liverpool have been looking for and not have not had since the likes of Xabi Alonso and Mascherano left.
|
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Aug 12, 2012 1:54:31 GMT
I disagree. Football is a sport that also operates as part of the entertainment industry - in this context, the wages are pretty mediocre. If Joe Allen can earn more with a different company, why shouldn't he? My only objection is that high earners should be taxed at an appropriate rate - but this applies to everyone in society, so to highlight footballers is wrong. Lawton comes across as having the same agenda as many football writers; he absolutely despises working class people for having the audacity to earn more than he ever will. The problem is that first and foremost this is sport and a by product is that it is entertainment. You seem to have got it the wrong way around as do the management of the EPL. Yes tax them more by all means but that would probably spiral wages ever upwards, whilst ticket prices follow as usual. Having been a pro myself i can tell you that it is an absolute privilege to turn up everyday and kick a ball around and to compare this pastime to real work is an insult to ordinary folk. The money EPL footballers earn is obscene in return for what they do and it has skewed the competition to such an extent that in each major european league there are but a handful of clubs that can win. This is not right and perhaps you are right and it shows that football is no longer a sport but in fact is entertainment for us suckers. |
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Aug 12, 2012 8:46:01 GMT
The money EPL footballers earn is obscene in return for what they do and it has skewed the competition to such an extent that in each major european league there are but a handful of clubs that can win. This is not right and perhaps you are right and it shows that football is no longer a sport but in fact is entertainment for us suckers.
------
Well, personally I don't really follow the EPL- i just check to see how the Welsh players are doing. I follow Wrexham (although not so much these days as 20 quid is ridiculous money for conference football) and Wales, so these arguments aren't so relevant to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Aug 13, 2012 6:32:26 GMT
But when the gog version of Huw Jenkins arrives and leads Wrexham up the tables and into the EPL what then? Surely you don't support wrexham in the hope that they will be in the blue square forever?
and Yes 20 quid is ridiculous and so is the 45 quid for a seat at the liberty which is the pointy end of player salaries.
|
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Aug 13, 2012 9:19:58 GMT
But when the gog version of Huw Jenkins arrives and leads Wrexham up the tables and into the EPL what then? Surely you don't support wrexham in the hope that they will be in the blue square forever? and Yes 20 quid is ridiculous and so is the 45 quid for a seat at the liberty which is the pointy end of player salaries. Oh yeah, all true. I was just pointing out that there is more to football than the Premier league and Ingurland. Writers like James Lawton don't seem to acknoweldge that. And as Martin Samuel pointed out, if rowing ever got so popular that a whole TV network was pretty much dedicated to it, with the top men earning 100 grand a week, with tabloid paps following them everywhere etc, we might see a different side to one or two of them too... I must say, Wales games at current prices are a absolute bargain. A tenner or a fiver to watch Bale, Bellamy and Dzeko? Fantastic value. which is why I'm disappointed more parents i south Wales don't take their kids to Wales games. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 12:41:14 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by squatter1 on Aug 28, 2012 15:10:05 GMT
That video highlights what a great defensive midfielder Allen is. For the record, all these Inniesta comparisons are bullshit. Just cos he's a similar height doesn't mean he's a similar player. Might as well say Ash Williams is the new Pele cos he's black. Inniesta is notable chiefly for his incredible ball control, dribbling and creativity in the final third. Allen is not this kind of player. If there's anyone in the Spain setup Allen is comparible to it's Xavi - a metronomic passer of the ball who reads the game brilliantly. There is, of course, another Welsh Inniesta, but he's still got some work at Palace to do before he breaks through like Joe has... |
|
