Joe Allen

[winsumluzsum]

Come on! What more do you need? He's said if asked he would definitely not say no, that puts the onus on Page 100%. It's just a shame that the question wasn't asked prior to the squad selection for the playoffs.

By the way the only DMs to have played for us in qualifying are Ampadu, JJ, Morrell and Ramsey. Sheehan might add to that number in the playoffs but if we were to qualify then the inclusion of Allen wouldn't deprive any player who actually helped us qualify a place in the squad.

[surge]

I don't think Joe's a million miles away from the squad in real terms. We don't have the best depth at CM, he knows what's needed at international level and he's a good person.

I just don't think anyone in the squad, or Joe, wants it to be a story or tells the younger players that they don't need to step up because they can still look to the old guard.

Despite it being such an easy story to tell

[winsumluzsum]

"It sounds like Joe's not closing the door but recognising he made the right decision at that time for him and his family."

Exactly, that was then this is now.

If we qualify for the Euros we shouldn't select Allen, nor Ramsey for that matter, if they are injured or not getting club game time in the lead up to the Euros. We don't want a repetition of the World Cup fiasco.

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 15, 2024 21:21:38 GMT surge said:

I don't think Joe's a million miles away from the squad in real terms. We don't have the best depth at CM, he knows what's needed at international level and he's a good person.

I just don't think anyone in the squad, or Joe, wants it to be a story or tells the younger players that they don't need to step up because they can still look to the old guard.

Despite it being such an easy story to tell

Allen was characterically modest and low key and respectful in that interview. He just answered honestly, but chose his words very carefully not to make things an issue for Page. However, his answer in the affirmative to the question of whether he would agree to a request to return to the squad certainly puts the ball in Page's court. But that's for another day.

[marsvolta]

Mar 15, 2024 21:13:18 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Come on! What more do you need? He's said if asked he would definitely not say no, that puts the onus on Page 100%. It's just a shame that the question wasn't asked prior to the squad selection for the playoffs.

By the way the only DMs to have played for us in qualifying are Ampadu, JJ, Morrell and Ramsey. Sheehan might add to that number in the playoffs but if we were to qualify then the inclusion of Allen wouldn't deprive any player who actually helped us qualify a place in the squad.

I’ve got a lot of respect for Joe but he’s sending out mixed messages here.

Announcing that he’s retiring, then saying it was the right decision, then saying that provided we qualify, and he gets asked, he wouldn’t say no, but he won’t come out of retirement by his own accord.To be honest, he’s starting to sound a bit like my ex-missus. haha.

[winsumluzsum]

But how would it come across if he said "oh, yeah, if we qualify I'm going to un-retire". Imagine the flak he would get for that... He's answered honestly but also bent over backwards not to make things difficult for Page. Allen is a smart guy and the nuance in his answer reflects that.

Having said that the question will inevitably come Page's way, if Allen is fit, on whether he will include Allen or not. It will come down to whether or not he thinks Allen will be an asset to the squad. Which he obviously will be...

[allezlesrouges]

Interesting he has essentially come out of international retirement

Although to say "I would never say no to a call up" is a bit rich given the past year Allen's ruled himself out of a call up. Smacks of not being able or willing to get through a qualification campaign but wants the opportunity to play at the tournament

That being said if we go to the tournament I'd rather have him in the squad than Levitt/Savage/Et al

A midfield of Ampadu, JJ, Morrell, Allen would make our midfield situation look a lot better, and if Allen were to play in the warm up games and look good next to JJ it could even possibly free Ampadu up to play in defence

Article with full quotes here: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68591549

[winsumluzsum]

I agree with most of that, but you're very unfair on Allen. He's asked about the Cymru team at the tail end of an interview chiefly about the derby. What's he to do with a question asking how he would respond to an invite from Page? Lie? He's not hawking himself about, he's just saying how he would respond to a request for a time limited involvement. I don't think his long term commitment has changed, he's just saying right now I can help the cause, if asked. I suspect he would have said the same, had he been fit, during the campaign, or before these playoffs.

[rob]

Will not happen but would make a lot of sense to call up Joe as a replacement for Burns.Any centre half gets injured vs Finland and Ampadu is the only reasonable replacement.This would then leave a gap in midfield which Joe would be perfect to fill.

[marsvolta]

Would be helpful if Joe just comes out of retirement, or confirms that he is definitely retired and not coming back. This ‘I may, I may not,depends’ isn’t helping anyone.

We desperately need him, in the play off and in the finals if we get there, he can retire after that.

[iot]

I was really disappointed when he retired because it was a position we really struggled with. As it turned out, it pushed us into giving Jordan James a proper chance in crunch matches and such was his performances against high level opposition (particularly that Croatia game), I think it's been massive in raising his profile and giving confidence to his club bosses that he can be relied upon. So it may not have been a bad thing in that sense.

That said, I still believe a fit Joe Allen is more than good enough to make the squad. We don't know the ins and outs of the conversations between the two, but Allen has given a clear signal now that he would return if asked upon so Page should follow up on it. It suggests that he could have been persuaded not to retire and could perhaps have been persuaded to return for these fixtures, which would have been a big boost imo. So I think it's a big cock-up from Page if he's just accepted Allen's words without trying to persuade him at any point to carry on. But we're all obviously second guessing without being privy to those private conversations.

[dai]

OTJ was right then, Page made no effort to persuade Joe to stay on. This article contradicts Page’s statement that Joe retired and his decision was absolutely final.

[fiveattheback]

Total conjecture here from some.

If Allen wants to play for Wales again then he should declare himself available. Not hard to do.

[dai]

Mar 18, 2024 20:14:29 GMT marsvolta said:

Would be helpful if Joe just comes out of retirement, or confirms that he is definitely retired and not coming back. This ‘I may, I may not,depends’ isn’t helping anyone.

We desperately need him, in the play off and in the finals if we get there, he can retire after that.

Why put the onus on Joe here? He's pretty much said that Page only needs to pick up the phone and ask.

Reading between the lines, and from OTJ's comments last year, Joe's retirement was handled very poorly by Page. No effort was made to have a discussion regarding his future with Wales. 

[marsvolta]

Mar 18, 2024 22:20:04 GMT dai said:

Mar 18, 2024 20:14:29 GMT marsvolta said:

Would be helpful if Joe just comes out of retirement, or confirms that he is definitely retired and not coming back. This ‘I may, I may not,depends’ isn’t helping anyone.

We desperately need him, in the play off and in the finals if we get there, he can retire after that.

Why put the onus on Joe here? He's pretty much said that Page only needs to pick up the phone and ask.

Reading between the lines, and from OTJ's comments last year, Joe's retirement was handled very poorly by Page. No effort was made to have a discussion regarding his future with Wales. 

The onus is on Joe because he’s the one that retired , it’s not like Page dropped him. In fact he bent over backwards in the slight hope that he’d be fit for the latter stages of the World Cup games.

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 18, 2024 21:32:28 GMT fiveattheback said:

Total conjecture here from some.

If Allen wants to play for Wales again then he should declare himself available. Not hard to do.

What he's said is effectively "come and get me if you need me". Un-retiring at this point would appear greedy and opportunistic. However, even without un-retiring he's put the ball in Page's court.

I wonder if Page was unhappy with Allen's retirement. He wasn't quoted at the time praising Allen's contribution to Cymru down the years, which I would have expected. Perhaps given the efforts made to get Allen fit for the World Cup, perhaps he expected Allen to continue for longer. Who knows.

What I do know there are no good football reasons for him not to be considered worthy of a place in the squad. If Page does feel aggrieved with Allen in any way then he should put those feelings to one side, and think of the greater good.

Allen would be a great asset to have on the bench and in the dressing room. Hopefully we qualify to make it possible for this to happen.

[dai]

Mar 18, 2024 22:25:24 GMT marsvolta said:

Mar 18, 2024 22:20:04 GMT dai said:

Why put the onus on Joe here? He's pretty much said that Page only needs to pick up the phone and ask.

Reading between the lines, and from OTJ's comments last year, Joe's retirement was handled very poorly by Page. No effort was made to have a discussion regarding his future with Wales. 

The onus is on Joe because he’s the one that retired , it’s not like Page dropped him. In fact he bent over backwards in the slight hope that he’d be fit for the latter stages of the World Cup games.

Allen on playing for Wales again - "Of course if he asked me I would never say no".

At this present moment in time, the onus is on Page.

[winsumluzsum]

I think it would reflect really well on Page if he were to invite Allen back. It would demonstrate a flexible approach on his part, and a desire to assemble the strongest possible squad.

[allezlesrouges]

Why didn't Allen make himself available prior to this recent squad announcement? With Morrell out he'd 100% be in and probably only behind Ampadu & JJ in the pecking order

Will he continue to play for us if we don't qualify? If so, great I think he should be called up, and again would be great to have experience to call upon when we need a sub or JJ or Ampadu can't play

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 18, 2024 23:17:55 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Why didn't Allen make himself available prior to this recent squad announcement? With Morrell out he'd 100% be in and probably only behind Ampadu & JJ in the pecking order

Will he continue to play for us if we don't qualify? If so, great I think he should be called up, and again would be great to have experience to call upon when we need a sub or JJ or Ampadu can't play

He may well have for all we know, but I guess he just wasn't asked the question sooner, which is a shame.

It's a shame he decided to retire, but you can understand why he did it, given the injuries he suffered leading up to the World Cup. As it is, Swansea, who pay his wages haven't had a great return on their investment. His contract is up in the summer, and he's just turned 34, so alluding to a possible international return won't help his negotiations for a new contract.

I see him continuing to offer his services to Cymru on a needs basis. That may not be good enough for some, but it's good enough for me.

[fiveattheback]

Mar 18, 2024 22:26:32 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Mar 18, 2024 21:32:28 GMT fiveattheback said:

Total conjecture here from some.

If Allen wants to play for Wales again then he should declare himself available. Not hard to do.

What he's said is effectively "come and get me if you need me". Un-retiring at this point would appear greedy and opportunistic. However, even without un-retiring he's put the ball in Page's court.

I wonder if Page was unhappy with Allen's retirement. He wasn't quoted at the time praising Allen's contribution to Cymru down the years, which I would have expected. Perhaps given the efforts made to get Allen fit for the World Cup, perhaps he expected Allen to continue for longer. Who knows.

What I do know there are no good football reasons for him not to be considered worthy of a place in the squad. If Page does feel aggrieved with Allen in any way then he should put those feelings to one side, and think of the greater good.

Allen would be a great asset to have on the bench and in the dressing room. Hopefully we qualify to make it possible for this to happen.

Allen retired. If he wants to play again the onus is on him to come out of retirement and declare himself available. It's not hard.

[jbt95]

Mar 18, 2024 22:44:00 GMT winsumluzsum said:

I think it would reflect really well on Page if he were to invite Allen back. It would demonstrate a flexible approach on his part, and a desire to assemble the strongest possible squad.

I’d take Allen to the euros if we are short on players and he finishes the season strongly, and if he makes the first contact with Page / the FAW.

[cadno]

Page didn’t bother trying to convince him to stay on, he’d be a valuable member of the squad, but Page doesn’t think so, so we might as well forget about it now

[quetzal]

Mar 19, 2024 13:30:23 GMT cadno said:

Page didn’t bother trying to convince him to stay on, he’d be a valuable member of the squad, but Page doesn’t think so, so we might as well forget about it now

I think we’ll qualify and Page will have an absolute shocker at the Euros. Some people will except that because of a trip to Germany. Allen should be trying to get a 100 caps.

[CrackityJones]

Reminder: Allen retired, his choice not Page's

[allezlesrouges]

Mar 19, 2024 13:30:23 GMT cadno said:

Page didn’t bother trying to convince him to stay on, he’d be a valuable member of the squad, but Page doesn’t think so, so we might as well forget about it now

Allen: I'm calling to let you know that I'm retiring from international football

Page: Come on Joe...stay on for another campaign, we really want you to continue. Please?

Allen: I wasn't going to but seeing as you asked nicely, you know what, yeah sod it I'll carry on. I'll let the wife know in a minute now


Does anyone really think this is how it would have gone down? It's a personal decision to retire, and it's not someone else's job to convince you otherwise, likewise it's a personal decision to come out of retirement. It's very easy to do, all he has to do is say the words

[iot]

Mar 19, 2024 14:43:06 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Mar 19, 2024 13:30:23 GMT cadno said:

Page didn’t bother trying to convince him to stay on, he’d be a valuable member of the squad, but Page doesn’t think so, so we might as well forget about it now

Allen: I'm calling to let you know that I'm retiring from international football

Page: Come on Joe...stay on for another campaign, we really want you to continue. Please?

Allen: I wasn't going to but seeing as you asked nicely, you know what, yeah sod it I'll carry on. I'll let the wife know in a minute now


Does anyone really think this is how it would have gone down? It's a personal decision to retire, and it's not someone else's job to convince you otherwise, likewise it's a personal decision to come out of retirement. It's very easy to do, all he has to do is say the words

To be fair, I don't think it's unheard of for a Manager to try to convince a player not to retire or come back from retirement. Gatland and Martyn Williams is the rugby example that sticks out in my mind, but I know it happens every so often in football too. I think Page should have tried to convince him to stick around for another campaign - he may have for all we know (despite what he says in the press).

[winsumluzsum]

Allen, based on his comments, would appear to be in a state of semi-retirement. He seems to be saying I'm not generally available for selection but if the manager makes a call (for instance if Ampadu and JJ were both injured) then he would respond positively to the call.

It's perfectly legitimate to have a principle of only selecting fully committed players. However, it has to be recognised that this comes with a cost, not so much to Allen, but to Cymru's prospects. This to me is cutting your nose off to spite your face, but I appreciate that is just my take on things.

In any event, Allen's comment that he doesn't expect a phone call, and Page's prickly response to the questions he was posed in August of last year makes it pretty clear that it's highly unlikely Page will be calling on Allen.

[cadno]

Mar 19, 2024 15:05:59 GMT iot said:

Mar 19, 2024 14:43:06 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Allen: I'm calling to let you know that I'm retiring from international football

Page: Come on Joe...stay on for another campaign, we really want you to continue. Please?

Allen: I wasn't going to but seeing as you asked nicely, you know what, yeah sod it I'll carry on. I'll let the wife know in a minute now


Does anyone really think this is how it would have gone down? It's a personal decision to retire, and it's not someone else's job to convince you otherwise, likewise it's a personal decision to come out of retirement. It's very easy to do, all he has to do is say the words

To be fair, I don't think it's unheard of for a Manager to try to convince a player not to retire or come back from retirement. Gatland and Martyn Williams is the rugby example that sticks out in my mind, but I know it happens every so often in football too. I think Page should have tried to convince him to stick around for another campaign - he may have for all we know (despite what he says in the press).

OTJ who is close friends to Allen said the phone call went too smoothly, it was over and done with quickly. Yes Page could have spent a long time on the phone getting Allen excited for the new project, outlaying in detail the plan of the campaign, what it would mean to play out in Germany, how were lacking a bit of depth in midfield so it would be great to have him on board just for one last campaign.

Simply saying ‘Thanks, all the best!’ Wasn’t enough IMO - especially strange as Page said after the WC how Allen still had a big part to play in the next campaign - whether or not he believed those words I don’t know!

[iantov]

A few of us on here have probably been in a position where we have had too many injuries, got a little older, taken a lot longer to recover from a game, etc, and said to the club that we've probably played for 10 years plus 'that's it for me lads, can't do this any longer' and then got a call the following season from the gaffer..'I wouldn't ask but we're a bit short on numbers, cup game, local derbie, any chance you can help us out just this once..?'

Of course, we would! Possibly a similar situation for Joe, retired but if his country was desperate, he would help out. Perhaps as simple as that!