Joe Allen

[winsumluzsum]

Sept 26, 2024 13:31:50 GMT quetzal said:

Every dog has its day! Remember in the World Cup who gave the ball away for Iran’s first goal?

I would say it’s more to have him around the camp. Off bench to play keep ball away from home in closing minutes. I don’t see a starting role.

Why bring that up? He was obviously unfit and it's unfair to see beyond that. Although if you want to mention his World Cup role then for balance you would need to mention his pivotal role in getting us there in the first place.

As far as his future role is concerned I would expect Bellamy to see him as having a more creative role than simply seeing a game out.

[quetzal]

Sept 26, 2024 14:30:13 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Sept 26, 2024 13:31:50 GMT quetzal said:

Every dog has its day! Remember in the World Cup who gave the ball away for Iran’s first goal?

I would say it’s more to have him around the camp. Off bench to play keep ball away from home in closing minutes. I don’t see a starting role.

Why bring that up? He was obviously unfit and it's unfair to see beyond that. Although if you want to mention his World Cup role then for balance you would need to mention his pivotal role in getting us there in the first place.

As far as his future role is concerned I would expect Bellamy to see him as having a more creative role than simply seeing a game out.

I’m a fan but let’s not kid ourselves, his best days are behind him. But I’ve seen Ratcliffe come out of retirement for Wales and we beat a very good Belgium team 2-0 in World Cup qualifying. If Joe could pull something out of the bag for us then great. But I think my comments are fair. He’s in the twilight of his career.

[jbt95]

Sept 26, 2024 15:05:11 GMT quetzal said:

Sept 26, 2024 16:05:11 GMT 1 quetzal said:

He’s in the twilight of his career.

Well yeah, he is 34 and a half lol ... but having said that he is just under 10 months older than Ramsey.

[jbt95]

Sept 26, 2024 13:31:50 GMT quetzal said:

Every dog has its day! Remember in the World Cup who gave the ball away for Iran’s first goal?

I would say it’s more to have him around the camp. Off bench to play keep ball away from home in closing minutes. I don’t see a starting role.

Good points. He usually plays the last 20/25 for Swansea at the moment so I can't see him starting IF he is recalled.

[winsumluzsum]

I don’t disagree with your assessment that his role will be limited going forward, I just found your dig at his World cup involvement unnecessary, and not a reasonable indication of his likely contribution going forwards.

[fireboy0610]

I'm glad that he's been asked.

Playing for your country is the ultimate honour, I think joe will take bellamy up on his offer and I'm glad too, we need his experience in the middle of the park, imagine a midfield of Ampadu, James and Allen.

[melynwy]

Sept 26, 2024 15:05:11 GMT quetzal said:

Sept 26, 2024 14:30:13 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Why bring that up? He was obviously unfit and it's unfair to see beyond that. Although if you want to mention his World Cup role then for balance you would need to mention his pivotal role in getting us there in the first place.

As far as his future role is concerned I would expect Bellamy to see him as having a more creative role than simply seeing a game out.

I’m a fan but let’s not kid ourselves, his best days are behind him. But I’ve seen Ratcliffe come out of retirement for Wales and we beat a very good Belgium team 2-0 in World Cup qualifying. If Joe could pull something out of the bag for us then great. But I think my comments are fair. He’s in the twilight of his career.

!!

I don’t think anyone’s claiming his best playing days are yet to come 😖!

[quetzal]

Sept 26, 2024 19:07:04 GMT melynwy said:

Sept 26, 2024 15:05:11 GMT quetzal said:

I’m a fan but let’s not kid ourselves, his best days are behind him. But I’ve seen Ratcliffe come out of retirement for Wales and we beat a very good Belgium team 2-0 in World Cup qualifying. If Joe could pull something out of the bag for us then great. But I think my comments are fair. He’s in the twilight of his career.

!!

I don’t think anyone’s claiming his best playing days are yet to come 😖!

Sorry but have to defend my comment about the sloppy World Cup play against Iran. Against Ukraine in the play off he gave what most thought was a stonewall penalty away and got a yellow card in the opening minutes. I love Joe but just don’t see him starting.

[fireboy0610]

Sept 26, 2024 20:27:58 GMT quetzal said:

Sept 26, 2024 19:07:04 GMT melynwy said:

!!

I don’t think anyone’s claiming his best playing days are yet to come 😖!

Sorry but have to defend my comment about the sloppy World Cup play against Iran. Against Ukraine in the play off he gave what most thought was a stonewall penalty away and got a yellow card in the opening minutes. I love Joe but just don’t see him starting.

I suspect he won't start above Ampadu or James but he will be great coming on after 65/70 mins to disrupt the oppositions play.

[winsumluzsum]

Bellamy's decision on Allen starting or coming off the bench will have zero to do with a couple of specially selected and unrepresentative moments from games a long time ago. Bellamy will base his decisions on the fitness levels and capabilities of the players at his disposal. Given the restricted game time Allen is getting at club level it would be very surprising if Allen starts for Cymru. But as a second half option off the bench Allen's experience and knowhow will be invaluable.

[allezlesrouges]

Seeing as he's being used by Swansea to see games out I suspect his role would be similar for us. The Montenegro game was a great example, Bellamy needed to bring an experienced midfielder on for Cooper & had Rambo to use. However, without Rambo in that type of situation we'd essentially be relying on Sheehan, not ideal given his limited international experience

Given Allen has a ton of experience and we're not asking him to start games it does make sense to me, if he is still keen. Not expecting the performances of old, just a good level of professionalism from him hopefully

[cadno]

It’ll be brilliant if Bellamy can make Allen feel excited about getting to the World Cup, and convince him to come back. Agree with others, he’ll add depth and experience, and hopefully Joe Morrell can recover from his injury and find a club soon to give us another option in midfield too.

[dragon64]

Sept 27, 2024 16:20:10 GMT cadno said:

It’ll be brilliant if Bellamy can make Allen feel excited about getting to the World Cup, and convince him to come back. Agree with others, he’ll add depth and experience, and hopefully Joe Morrell can recover from his injury and find a club soon to give us another option in midfield too.

yes agree 

Bellamy is making some good decisions and this would be another one

I can see him being used to close a game out etc and in the modern game of 5 subs why not bring a quality player with loads of experience back into the fold its an area we are short of top quality so I hope to see this happen sooner rather than later...and with Ethan potentially picking up a knee injury [fingers crossed its nothing] bringing joe back would be a no-brainer for me

[allezlesrouges]

Being widely reported that he will be called back into the squad this week. Looks like it's now common knowledge that he's accepted the call up

Croeso nôl Joe!

[dai]

I remember mentioning on here ages ago that he was 'let go' too easily by Page, and OTJ mentioned that it was a very blase conversation between Page and Allen regarding retiring.

Don't want to use this as another stick to hit Page with, but he clearly cocked this one up a bit at the time.

Nice to have Joe back, as long as not too much expectation is put on him.

[erasedcitizen]

Welcome back Joe!

[cadno]

Media reporting Morrell hasn’t got a club - true, but he’s also injured badly and using Pompey’s facilities to recover. I Imagine he’ll find a club when he’s fit again, maybe even re-sign with Portsmouth. Great to see Allen back, adds a bit of depth, i expect Sheehan to get a starting role with James then Allen to come on, we will see.

[njdragon]

i was always a supporter of page but not calling allen back was a big F**k up. In reality it could have cost him his job - we could have done with allen against poland.

[winsumluzsum]

Oct 2, 2024 10:01:14 GMT njdragon said:

i was always a supporter of page but not calling allen back was a big F**k up. In reality it could have cost him his job - we could have done with allen against poland.

Allen was in decent form and playing for around an hour a game just before the double header and made it clear he would have responded favourably to a call up. Page got it wrong, and had he not he might still be in the job. Perhaps in the long run it's just as well because Bellamy is clearly a better manager, even after 2 games.

[highbury06]

Sept 26, 2024 14:30:13 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Sept 26, 2024 13:31:50 GMT quetzal said:

Every dog has its day! Remember in the World Cup who gave the ball away for Iran’s first goal?

I would say it’s more to have him around the camp. Off bench to play keep ball away from home in closing minutes. I don’t see a starting role.

Why bring that up? He was obviously unfit and it's unfair to see beyond that. Although if you want to mention his World Cup role then for balance you would need to mention his pivotal role in getting us there in the first place.

As far as his future role is concerned I would expect Bellamy to see him as having a more creative role than simply seeing a game out.

indeed, it was a pity that after more than 10 years of hard work and finally made a world cup, he could only play less than one-third of the total minutes, without match fitness.
if he didn't move from stoke to swansea before the season started everything could have been avoided.

indeed, i dont blame him or wayne for the defeat- even if we took one point from iran, that would not been enough considering that we failed to beat the states and the states took one point from england, and we would have been required to defeat england anyway which was mission impossible.
similarly, wayne was the reason why we were there in the first place. wardy didn't do well neither and he was even worse. without wayne's superb stop we would have conceded well before 90'.

If we made it to world cup 2018 we could have made the r16. coleman costed us a prime world cup. in wc22 the key trio are just aged, lack minutes at the clubs , and too injury-prone

[abercymru]

A Welsh legend, but I don't understand why he's been brought back and taking the place that could be made for a future player.

He can't get in an average Swansea team (not a dig, but Swansea have definitely had better teams/squads). I'd be surprised if he's played 90 minutes this season, not in a single game, in every appearance combined.

Just seems a mistake to me, but if he's called upon then of course I'd be very happy to be proven wrong. I would be worried if we have any sort of reliance on him though at this stage.

[melynwy]

Oct 4, 2024 2:16:15 GMT highbury06 said:

Sept 26, 2024 14:30:13 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Why bring that up? He was obviously unfit and it's unfair to see beyond that. Although if you want to mention his World Cup role then for balance you would need to mention his pivotal role in getting us there in the first place.

As far as his future role is concerned I would expect Bellamy to see him as having a more creative role than simply seeing a game out.

indeed, it was a pity that after more than 10 years of hard work and finally made a world cup, he could only play less than one-third of the total minutes, without match fitness.
if he didn't move from stoke to swansea before the season started everything could have been avoided.

indeed, i dont blame him or wayne for the defeat- even if we took one point from iran, that would not been enough considering that we failed to beat the states and the states took one point from england, and we would have been required to defeat england anyway which was mission impossible.
similarly, wayne was the reason why we were there in the first place. wardy didn't do well neither and he was even worse. without wayne's superb stop we would have conceded well before 90'.

If we made it to world cup 2018 we could have made the r16. coleman costed us a prime world cup. in wc22 the key trio are just aged, lack minutes at the clubs , and too injury-prone

I disagree strongly with this. For me, Hennessey's red card was the end of our World Cup. If that hadn't happened, we could well have held on for the draw, which would have given us two decent but unremarkable results at that point.

But crucially, it would have meant that we just needed a win - any win - against England, which makes it just like any other knockout match. You wouldn't go into into any knockout match claiming it was over before it started and "mission impossible" would you? It would have taken something special, yes, but that's what it's about. If we met England or similar (as we already have!)in a round of 16/Quarter final/Semi final/Final, I think we'd all go in exctied, hoping for a win and thinking it was possible. That's where a draw against Iran would have put us, and Hennessey's red card put an end to it.

As it was, we went into the England game needing to win 4-0 or something, which is indeed pretty much "mission impossible".

[jbt95]

Oct 4, 2024 7:10:09 GMT abercymru said:

A Welsh legend, but I don't understand why he's been brought back and taking the place that could be made for a future player.

He can't get in an average Swansea team (not a dig, but Swansea have definitely had better teams/squads). I'd be surprised if he's played 90 minutes this season, not in a single game, in every appearance combined.

He is coming back from injury, that is why he only makes max 20min sub appearances.

He has played 61mins across 5 appearances so far this season according to the Swans app.

[cogancoronation31]

It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't feature against Iceland, but perhaps comes on as a sub for a cameo role against Montenegro.

[abercymru]

Oct 4, 2024 11:32:12 GMT jbt95 said:

Oct 4, 2024 7:10:09 GMT abercymru said:

A Welsh legend, but I don't understand why he's been brought back and taking the place that could be made for a future player.

He can't get in an average Swansea team (not a dig, but Swansea have definitely had better teams/squads). I'd be surprised if he's played 90 minutes this season, not in a single game, in every appearance combined.

He is coming back from injury, that is why he only makes max 20min sub appearances.

He has played 61mins across 5 appearances so far this season according to the Swans app.

Ah right, cheers for the extra info. I knew he came on against Cardiff in August, so had presumed his lack of gametime now was selection based rather than injury or fitness (but clearly I don't follow him/them enough).

I'd still have rathered the next generation be brought in, with it being Nations League, in preparation for future qualifiers. But hopefully if he is called upon to play, he does an amazing job (like he's done so many times before).

[highbury06]

Oct 4, 2024 7:50:53 GMT melynwy said:

Oct 4, 2024 2:16:15 GMT highbury06 said:

indeed, it was a pity that after more than 10 years of hard work and finally made a world cup, he could only play less than one-third of the total minutes, without match fitness.
if he didn't move from stoke to swansea before the season started everything could have been avoided.

indeed, i dont blame him or wayne for the defeat- even if we took one point from iran, that would not been enough considering that we failed to beat the states and the states took one point from england, and we would have been required to defeat england anyway which was mission impossible.
similarly, wayne was the reason why we were there in the first place. wardy didn't do well neither and he was even worse. without wayne's superb stop we would have conceded well before 90'.

If we made it to world cup 2018 we could have made the r16. coleman costed us a prime world cup. in wc22 the key trio are just aged, lack minutes at the clubs , and too injury-prone

I disagree strongly with this. For me, Hennessey's red card was the end of our World Cup. If that hadn't happened, we could well have held on for the draw, which would have given us two decent but unremarkable results at that point.

But crucially, it would have meant that we just needed a win - any win - against England, which makes it just like any other knockout match. You wouldn't go into into any knockout match claiming it was over before it started and "mission impossible" would you? It would have taken something special, yes, but that's what it's about. If we met England or similar (as we already have!)in a round of 16/Quarter final/Semi final/Final, I think we'd all go in exctied, hoping for a win and thinking it was possible. That's where a draw against Iran would have put us, and Hennessey's red card put an end to it.

As it was, we went into the England game needing to win 4-0 or something, which is indeed pretty much "mission impossible".

we only had to play less than 10 mins with 10 men.
We would have held on for a draw if we didnt go all attack down 1 man.
Instead, we still kicked long balls to their half and eventually conceded

[njdragon]

Oct 2, 2024 12:06:00 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Oct 2, 2024 10:01:14 GMT njdragon said:

i was always a supporter of page but not calling allen back was a big F**k up. In reality it could have cost him his job - we could have done with allen against poland.

Allen was in decent form and playing for around an hour a game just before the double header and made it clear he would have responded favourably to a call up. Page got it wrong, and had he not he might still be in the job. Perhaps in the long run it's just as well because Bellamy is clearly a better manager, even after 2 games.

I’m not sure Bellamy would react any differently to a player retired under his watch all this talk of negotiables.

Also I don’t see the whole Bellamy is a better manager after 2 games. I seem to remember to main criticism of page he wasn’t tactically able to change a game. From the last 2 games Bellamy couldn’t change the system to get us a goal we deserved against turkey and Montenegro grew into the game not us.

Jury is out new manager new ideas, Iceland will be the test.

[melynwy]

Oct 4, 2024 16:53:00 GMT highbury06 said:

Oct 4, 2024 7:50:53 GMT melynwy said:

I disagree strongly with this. For me, Hennessey's red card was the end of our World Cup. If that hadn't happened, we could well have held on for the draw, which would have given us two decent but unremarkable results at that point.

But crucially, it would have meant that we just needed a win - any win - against England, which makes it just like any other knockout match. You wouldn't go into into any knockout match claiming it was over before it started and "mission impossible" would you? It would have taken something special, yes, but that's what it's about. If we met England or similar (as we already have!)in a round of 16/Quarter final/Semi final/Final, I think we'd all go in excited, hoping for a win and thinking it was possible. That's where a draw against Iran would have put us, and Hennessey's red card put an end to it.

As it was, we went into the England game needing to win 4-0 or something, which is indeed pretty much "mission impossible".

we only had to play less than 10 mins with 10 men.
We would have held on for a draw if we didnt go all attack down 1 man.
Instead, we still kicked long balls to their half and eventually conceded

We all see things differently, but I'll stick to my belief that having one of our most experienced players sent off late on in a tiring match when we were already struggling to hold it together was a likely tipping point that made us much more likely to lose.

And even if you don't buy that, surely it's a fair point that the England game would have just been like a knockout match had we drawn against Iran? No team that has qualified for the World Cup goes into a knockout match thinking it's over before it's started.

[melynwy]

Oct 4, 2024 18:43:51 GMT njdragon said:

Oct 2, 2024 12:06:00 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Allen was in decent form and playing for around an hour a game just before the double header and made it clear he would have responded favourably to a call up. Page got it wrong, and had he not he might still be in the job. Perhaps in the long run it's just as well because Bellamy is clearly a better manager, even after 2 games.

I’m not sure Bellamy would react any differently to a player retired under his watch all this talk of negotiables.

Also I don’t see the whole Bellamy is a better manager after 2 games. I seem to remember to main criticism of page he wasn’t tactically able to change a game. From the last 2 games Bellamy couldn’t change the system to get us a goal we deserved against turkey and Montenegro grew into the game not us.

Jury is out new manager new ideas, Iceland will be the test.

That's unfair on Bellamy re. the Turkey match. In all but scoreline we hammered them and created plenty of chances to win comfortably. If good chances are being created then changing the system is madness. Getting better finishes from already great chances is not related to changing the system, and that was the issue against Turkey.

When chances are not being created, I agree, the system is open to be changed, but the system in that match worked extremely well. We missed an open goal, Ramsey had an uncharacteristic total miscue, had plenty of other good-to-great chances and kept a clean sheet. Can't ask for more than that from any system really - the rest is down to players delivering with the final shot with split-second decisions, and that's beyond "the system".

[njdragon]

Oct 4, 2024 19:41:01 GMT melynwy said:

Oct 4, 2024 18:43:51 GMT njdragon said:

I’m not sure Bellamy would react any differently to a player retired under his watch all this talk of negotiables.

Also I don’t see the whole Bellamy is a better manager after 2 games. I seem to remember to main criticism of page he wasn’t tactically able to change a game. From the last 2 games Bellamy couldn’t change the system to get us a goal we deserved against turkey and Montenegro grew into the game not us.

Jury is out new manager new ideas, Iceland will be the test.

That's unfair on Bellamy re. the Turkey match. In all but scoreline we hammered them and created plenty of chances to win comfortably. If good chances are being created then changing the system is madness. Getting better finishes from already great chances is not related to changing the system, and that was the issue against Turkey.

When chances are not being created, I agree, the system is open to be changed, but the system in that match worked extremely well. We missed an open goal, Ramsey had an uncharacteristic total miscue, had plenty of other good-to-great chances and kept a clean sheet. Can't ask for more than that from any system really - the rest is down to players delivering with the final shot with split-second decisions, and that's beyond "the system".

Like the Poland match I would say, lovely little flick ons, nice play, we deserved the win, chances created. Goal ruled out but we just couldn’t win the game in 90. Bellamy started with a new system and we looked good but again we couldn’t kill it off.

I would like to see how he changes his game plan when we need to win or we go down a goal.