Joe Allen

[allezlesrouges]

Mar 19, 2024 17:21:48 GMT cadno said:

Mar 19, 2024 15:05:59 GMT iot said:

To be fair, I don't think it's unheard of for a Manager to try to convince a player not to retire or come back from retirement. Gatland and Martyn Williams is the rugby example that sticks out in my mind, but I know it happens every so often in football too. I think Page should have tried to convince him to stick around for another campaign - he may have for all we know (despite what he says in the press).

OTJ who is close friends to Allen said the phone call went too smoothly, it was over and done with quickly. Yes Page could have spent a long time on the phone getting Allen excited for the new project, outlaying in detail the plan of the campaign, what it would mean to play out in Germany, how were lacking a bit of depth in midfield so it would be great to have him on board just for one last campaign.

Simply saying ‘Thanks, all the best!’ Wasn’t enough IMO - especially strange as Page said after the WC how Allen still had a big part to play in the next campaign - whether or not he believed those words I don’t know!

The thing is though we're in a better place for allowing JJ to take his spot. Allen's position in the squad now would be as an experienced back up. That's a difficult sell for Page for one of the senior players, especially when Allen is saying his body is struggling, travelling around Europe as a back up is hard. For that reason I can see why it's cleaner not to fight it and adopt the sink or swim mentality that led to JJ starting

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 19, 2024 18:08:32 GMT iantov said:

A few of us on here have probably been in a position where we have had too many injuries, got a little older, taken a lot longer to recover from a game, etc, and said to the club that we've probably played for 10 years plus 'that's it for me lads, can't do this any longer' and then got a call the following season from the gaffer..'I wouldn't ask but we're a bit short on numbers, cup game, local derbie, any chance you can help us out just this once..?'

Of course, we would! Possibly a similar situation for Joe, retired but if his country was desperate, he would help out. Perhaps as simple as that!

That's the essence of it from Allen's perspective. What is less clear is Page's thinking here.

Clearly Allen isn't expecting a phone call. Would love to be proven wrong on this, Page would get more praise than criticism if he were to make the call.

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 19, 2024 18:19:49 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Mar 19, 2024 17:21:48 GMT cadno said:

OTJ who is close friends to Allen said the phone call went too smoothly, it was over and done with quickly. Yes Page could have spent a long time on the phone getting Allen excited for the new project, outlaying in detail the plan of the campaign, what it would mean to play out in Germany, how were lacking a bit of depth in midfield so it would be great to have him on board just for one last campaign.

Simply saying ‘Thanks, all the best!’ Wasn’t enough IMO - especially strange as Page said after the WC how Allen still had a big part to play in the next campaign - whether or not he believed those words I don’t know!

The thing is though we're in a better place for allowing JJ to take his spot. Allen's position in the squad now would be as an experienced back up. That's a difficult sell for Page for one of the senior players, especially when Allen is saying his body is struggling, travelling around Europe as a back up is hard. For that reason I can see why it's cleaner not to fight it and adopt the sink or swim mentality that led to JJ starting

If you're only concerned about the long term then this makes sense. For me a balanced approach between the long term and the present is a more expedient way of going.

The fact that Allen's position would be that of experienced backup is congruent, given that it's dubious he would be able to put in 90 minute performances.

Including Allen is more messy for sure, but his presence in the squad would definitely help in these playoffs and the Euros finals if we get there. Beyond that the case for including him gets weaker, and it would only make sense to turn to him in an emergency, which would suit all parties.

[CrackityJones]

Allen saying he isn’t expecting a call was in the context of the young players in his position doing so well. Its not a dig at Page

"Part of the decision I made was about making space for the next generation. The squad is in a really good place and we've got really good strength-in-depth there.‘’

Why are people intent on throwing mud that doesn’t stick? Just enjoy our squad being in great form ahead of a what could be a special night on Thursday.

[iot]

Mar 19, 2024 19:04:22 GMT CrackityJones said:

Allen saying he isn’t expecting a call was in the context of the young players in his position doing so well. Its not a dig at Page

"Part of the decision I made was about making space for the next generation. The squad is in a really good place and we've got really good strength-in-depth there.‘’

Why are people intent on throwing mud that doesn’t stick? Just enjoy our squad being in great form ahead of a what could be a special night on Thursday.

Yeah I was going to make the same point. When Allen says he wasn't expecting a call, it directly followed his praise for the young players who have since come through and how that was what (partly) drove him to retire in the first place. So I don't think him saying that he doesn't expect a call is because there's been a falling out with Page or because he doesn't think Page rates him anymore; he's essentially saying that the guys that have come in have reached a level where he's not needed anymore. 

[iot]

Mar 19, 2024 18:40:31 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Mar 19, 2024 18:19:49 GMT allezlesrouges said:

The thing is though we're in a better place for allowing JJ to take his spot. Allen's position in the squad now would be as an experienced back up. That's a difficult sell for Page for one of the senior players, especially when Allen is saying his body is struggling, travelling around Europe as a back up is hard. For that reason I can see why it's cleaner not to fight it and adopt the sink or swim mentality that led to JJ starting

If you're only concerned about the long term then this makes sense. For me a balanced approach between the long term and the present is a more expedient way of going.

The fact that Allen's position would be that of experienced backup is congruent, given that it's dubious he would be able to put in 90 minute performances.

Including Allen is more messy for sure, but his presence in the squad would definitely help in these playoffs and the Euros finals if we get there. Beyond that the case for including him gets weaker, and it would only make sense to turn to him in an emergency, which would suit all parties.

It's not just about thinking long-term vs short-term. I think that entrusting James in the latter half of the campaign has helped him reach a new level and really kick on with his club. I don't think we'd have as a good a player on our hands right now if we hadn't done that, and in a parallel universe where Allen hadn't retired, he would have probably started those games ahead of James

[winsumluzsum]

I certainly agree with that.

In the normal course of events you would look to Nations League games and friendlies to blood players. But sometimes you have to introduce them in the thick of a campaign. In James' case that has worked out very well indeed, although in general it's unusual for a newcomer to have such an immediate impact.

There is still a legitimate short term, here and now perspective, and that's where the inclusion or otherwise of seasoned ostensibly retired veterans comes into play. There's a tension for sure, but not necessarily a contradiction between the long term and short term approaches. I favour a pragmatic approach.

[rob]

Mar 19, 2024 18:28:29 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Mar 19, 2024 18:08:32 GMT iantov said:

A few of us on here have probably been in a position where we have had too many injuries, got a little older, taken a lot longer to recover from a game, etc, and said to the club that we've probably played for 10 years plus 'that's it for me lads, can't do this any longer' and then got a call the following season from the gaffer..'I wouldn't ask but we're a bit short on numbers, cup game, local derbie, any chance you can help us out just this once..?'

Of course, we would! Possibly a similar situation for Joe, retired but if his country was desperate, he would help out. Perhaps as simple as that!

That's the essence of it from Allen's perspective. What is less clear is Page's thinking here.

Clearly Allen isn't expecting a phone call. Would love to be proven wrong on this, Page would get more praise than criticism if he were to make the call.

Page just strikes me a bit like Toshack with retired players -will not chase anyone,they gave to call me.Its like a point of principle for him and is typical Page in being shortsighted or not seeing bigger picture.e.g.couple of youngsters would have benefitted for this campaign from going to the World Cup but took Gunter and Williams due to loyalty.

[pclaude]

Before the game last night, when Page was being interviewed by the Finnish TV crew, Joe Allen walked the length of the pitch from the S4C spot to go and see Page. And it was a definite “nice to see you good luck” not “I’ll go to the euros if we qualify” type of warm embrace and convo.

[morg]

Mar 22, 2024 9:05:11 GMT pclaude said:

Before the game last night, when Page was being interviewed by the Finnish TV crew, Joe Allen walked the length of the pitch from the S4C spot to go and see Page. And it was a definite “nice to see you good luck” not “I’ll go to the euros if we qualify” type of warm embrace and convo.

He's a good egg. If we make it to the Euros and he has a trouble free run in with Swansea, I'd still pick him. A fit Joe Allen would not have been a risk to bring on when JJ was tiring last night.

[1gwaunview]

Mar 22, 2024 9:20:27 GMT morg said:

Mar 22, 2024 9:05:11 GMT pclaude said:

Before the game last night, when Page was being interviewed by the Finnish TV crew, Joe Allen walked the length of the pitch from the S4C spot to go and see Page. And it was a definite “nice to see you good luck” not “I’ll go to the euros if we qualify” type of warm embrace and convo.

He's a good egg. If we make it to the Euros and he has a trouble free run in with Swansea, I'd still pick him. A fit Joe Allen would not have been a risk to bring on when JJ was tiring last night.

Good guy our Joe

[welshrover]

Mar 22, 2024 12:34:09 GMT 1gwaunview said:

Mar 22, 2024 9:20:27 GMT morg said:

He's a good egg. If we make it to the Euros and he has a trouble free run in with Swansea, I'd still pick him. A fit Joe Allen would not have been a risk to bring on when JJ was tiring last night.

Good guy our Joe

Don't know if Joe was nervous as a pitch side pundit or if he doesn't use his Welsh much nowadays but he kept "tripping over" his words. Luckily Gwennan is never short of words!

[winsumluzsum]

He wasn't word perfect for sure, but for his first time as a pundit he did really well I thought.

[1gwaunview]

Roedd e'n nerfys ryw'n siwr, ar y sgrin fel pundit am y tro cyntaf.
Rather see him on the pitch mind if he's fit.

[conwy10]

Mar 22, 2024 14:27:57 GMT welshrover said:

Mar 22, 2024 12:34:09 GMT 1gwaunview said:

Good guy our Joe

Don't know if Joe was nervous as a pitch side pundit or if he doesn't use his Welsh much nowadays but he kept "tripping over" his words. Luckily Gwennan is never short of words!

I thought the same watching it. Maybe commentating just isn't his thing or maybe he'll grow into it as he did seem really nervous.

[winsumluzsum]

I thought he spoke well and clearly. Unsurprising that he struggled to get his words out as he probably doesn't get a lot of opportunity to speak Welsh. But for a first bit of punditry he did fine.

[mrpicton79]

Mar 22, 2024 22:06:48 GMT winsumluzsum said:

I thought he spoke well and clearly. Unsurprising that he struggled to get his words out as he probably doesn't get a lot of opportunity to speak Welsh. But for a first bit of punditry he did fine.

Not sure that was his first time on S4C actually. But it was still better than listening to Hartson's Wenglish lol.

But in general it's typically a problem with the South-Walians, where it isn't the first language and it shows. That's in stark contrast to the likes of OTJ and Malcolm Allen when it all just rolls off the tongue. Speaking of which what's happened to Malc? S4C give him the boot?

[welshrover]

Mar 23, 2024 4:52:00 GMT mrpicton79 said:

Mar 22, 2024 22:06:48 GMT winsumluzsum said:

I thought he spoke well and clearly. Unsurprising that he struggled to get his words out as he probably doesn't get a lot of opportunity to speak Welsh. But for a first bit of punditry he did fine.

Not sure that was his first time on S4C actually. But it was still better than listening to Hartson's Wenglish lol.

But in general it's typically a problem with the South-Walians, where it isn't the first language and it shows. That's in stark contrast to the likes of OTJ and Malcolm Allen when it all just rolls off the tongue. Speaking of which what's happened to Malc? S4C give him the boot?

I was wondering the same thing about Malcolm Allen. I like listening to Malcolm, heart on the sleeve stuff!

[winsumluzsum]

Although he didn't have a bad game Jordan James was pretty anonymous last night, especially in contrast to Ampadu's big game. The game was crying out for a Joe Allen on the hour mark. Whatever people think about the principle of a manager asking a player to come out of retirement on a temporary basis, that option was available to Page, and we can be very confident, given his unequivocal response to the question about a Euro participation, that Allen would have responded in the affirmative to a request to participate in the playoffs.

Would an Allen involvement have made the difference? We'll never know, but I think his excellent game management skills could well have made the difference.

In assessing Page's future the question as to whether or not his approach to selection is too rigid should play its part, even if a minor one. If Osian is available then I would consider going for him, but otherwise I'd stick with Page, warts and all.

[highbury06]

Mar 27, 2024 10:03:40 GMT winsumluzsum said:

Although he didn't have a bad game Jordan James was pretty anonymous last night, especially in contrast to Ampadu's big game. The game was crying out for a Joe Allen on the hour mark. Whatever people think about the principle of a manager asking a player to come out of retirement on a temporary basis, that option was available to Page, and we can be very confident, given his unequivocal response to the question about a Euro participation, that Allen would have responded in the affirmative to a request to participate in the playoffs.

Would an Allen involvement have made the difference? We'll never know, but I think his excellent game management skills could well have made the difference.

In assessing Page's future the question as to whether or not his approach to selection is too rigid should play its part, even if a minor one. If Osian is available then I would consider going for him, but otherwise I'd stick with Page, warts and all.

he struggles to be fit nowadays in the club level anyway, so even if he is picked he will be another rambo

[highbury06]

Feb 26, 2024 22:39:31 GMT melynwy said:

Feb 26, 2024 20:56:34 GMT jimexotic said:

Is there no end to your assumptions? 

Also Zidane and Thuram are two of the greatest players of their generation, Zidane is in most people's top 10 of all time, he was very much still one of the best players in the World going into his last professional game. Do you not remember Joe Allen's last few games for Wales? He was a shadow of his former self and it was quite sad to see, in fact Qatar 2022 might not have happened had he not got lucky against Ukraine when he nearly gave a penalty away due to being slower than he used to be. It's over, it's done, a new generation are stepping up to the plate and I very much doubt a few games for Swansea is going to make Joe Allen think "you know what, maybe I was wrong" and none of us know what Robert Page is thinking. If he reaches out to him and Joe says yes then that's that, maybe he reaches out to him every time it's time to name a squad, we don't know. My view is that we've got enough now to not need to turn to Joe Allen for two games because Joe Allen has proven that his body is really struggling to play a number of games in quick succession and by the time the play offs come around there's every chance that he could be injured or unfit again given how the last few years have gone.

At some point you have to calm down and respect everyone's opinions rather than coming out with stuff that's pure speculation and trying to use it as a stick to beat us with for having the sheer audacity to suggest that in terms of Joe Allen playing for Wales it's almost certainly all but over and that appears to be down to one man, Joe Allen.

Not to take sides in this argument, but in fairness he was in state to play at the World Cup due to a completely botched recovery from a serious injury. That wasn't age-related. Had be been 22 he still shouldn't have played.


In my mind Allen has retired from Wales, and that's that. I'm sure Bale would still hold his own in the team too and come up with moments of magic, but they're not an option.

If that were to change regarding Allen, then great, but it's a moot point at the moment.

his qatar22 was ruined by the swansea physio. had he stayed in stoke, even if he still got injured, a more competent physio would mean he could have well recovered 1 month earlier and played at least half of the 270 mins. Who knows if we would still crash out in the group state if so.

[talyfan]

Bellamy spoken to him about a potential return? Not a bad option to bring off the bench for last 15-20 minutes not sure he's got it in him to play full 90

[vaulksthrowfanclub]

Sept 25, 2024 13:54:04 GMT talyfan said:

Bellamy spoken to him about a potential return? Not a bad option to bring off the bench for last 15-20 minutes not sure he's got it in him to play full 90

Sensible decision to try to get all hands on deck, but yes I only see him as a sub at this juncture.

[winsumluzsum]

www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/tonights-swansea-city-news-club-29991496

Galling to think we could have brought him off the bench for an anonymous JJ in the Poland match. In such a tight game his experience could have made all the difference. Perhaps its karma that Page lost his job largely on the back of that defeat.

[winsumluzsum]

The interesting thing here is that Bellamy is eager to call on Allen's services in spite of his age and limited club game time. I can see his logic. JJ and Ampadu are a bit similar. Both strong defensively with a good range of passing. However both aren't particularly quick in the transition, which is Allen's forte. Given Bellamy's desire to play a high tempo, high intensity game you can see where a player like Allen could fit in, if only off the bench.

[surge]

We have a relatively small playing pool and Joe Allen has amazing experiences he can share.

But he's in the winter of his career.

We will have to wait and see what he decides. He may prefer to stick it with Swansea or he may still have the itch.

[winsumluzsum]

Will Bellamy demand that Allen is all in, or will he allow him to be more selective with the games he plays? I suspect the former, but who knows? With Allen now being backup to Franco at Swansea perhaps his thinking may change. Game time with Cymru may help his club career.

[1gwaunview]

One of the greats for us over the last dozen or so years. Doesn't seem to get much of a look in as a Swansea starter. Is he 100% fit? His experience would be invaluable to help some of the youngsters kick on I'm sure, and perhaps with Ramsey injured, if he could play 30 mins or a half would be great. A short term fix probably, that is if he's actually interested.

[marsvolta]

Sept 26, 2024 11:53:46 GMT 1gwaunview said:

One of the greats for us over the last dozen or so years. Doesn't seem to get much of a look in as a Swansea starter. Is he 100% fit? His experience would be invaluable to help some of the youngsters kick on I'm sure, and perhaps with Ramsey injured, if he could play 30 mins or a half would be great. A short term fix probably, that is if he's actually interested.

My guess is that Ramsey’s injury has prompted this. Bring Joe in for a bit of experienced cover for the next two camps.

[quetzal]

Every dog has its day! Remember in the World Cup who gave the ball away for Iran’s first goal?

I would say it’s more to have him around the camp. Off bench to play keep ball away from home in closing minutes. I don’t see a starting role.