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Post by dai on Oct 10, 2017 20:55:27 GMT
I agree that Taylor and Bale were reckless in Dublin, however you guys cannot even admit to yourselves that thuggery is part of your game. Do you not see that your play is thuggery or not? The irony is that you're referring to so-called Irish thuggery, whilst ignoring Welsh thuggery. After the Dublin game, Welsh fans justified the actions of Bale and Taylor by saying that Irelabd set the tone with rough tactics early on. You don't hear Irish fans bleating on about how Wales set the tone last night with Allen's late tackle on Meyler. You need to get over it Dai. Your team was beaten fairly and squarely. Wales had 3 hours of football and couldn't score.It's hard to get over it unfortunately. We haven't had the pleasure of playing in as many major championships as yourselves. It also hasn't helped seeing a number of Irish fans coming on here gloating and goading us after the match. I can sincerely say, there'd have been nothing of the sort on the ybig forum if we'd have won. I know, well that's an aspect of our game which has been poor over the campaign and needs to be addressed going forward. We are great in possession play and decent in defence and midfield, however our goalscoring record is abysmal. |
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Post by john1234 on Oct 10, 2017 21:02:19 GMT
the welsh need to wake up to the fact that they arent as good as they think.Take bale away there isnt much between the sides. You lot seem to live off euro 2016.
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Post by oscardelta on Oct 10, 2017 21:02:51 GMT
Meyler led with the elbow there but didn't make contact with Allen's face. There's clear intent, though. At the end of the day, it's gone. Let it go. This is the thing though, by 'letting it go' this style of play does not get stamped out of the game. Now this isn't going to get us to the World Cup, but can the FAW appeal to FIFA about the way the Irish played vs us in both games? Are you going to whine on every thread ? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 21:04:29 GMT
Maybe the Allen challenge was just a yellow. (No booking). But here's another straight red... m.bbc.com/sport/football/41573539My count is three nailed on reds in the match. The only red over the two games was (rightfully) for Taylor then. OK. Were you as quick at counting the two obvious Welsh reds in Dublin? Well we got a red, rightfully. Is the other one Bale? That was borderline. He got a yellow. The tackle on Allen was completely unintentional. Allen is no shrinking violet himself - he caught Meyler with a bad tackle earlier in the game. Last night was Ireland's night and I don't think Allen would have made a difference. He might have added to the posession stats, but the one thing we've learned from 180 minutes of football between these two teams is that Wales don't have much in the way of penetration. Reminiscent of Van Gaal's United or De Boer's Crystal Palace. Agree Allen's yellow was merited. The point is that your lot for away with no yellows for bad fouls in both games meaning they could go on and play dirty which ruined both games as straight up football games. If you can't admit you got away with a lot there's not much point in debating with you. Taylor was definitely a straight red on Coleman. A great player has had a chunk of his career missing because the ref completely lost control of the match and the Irish pushed the game into an ill disciplined anti football affair. I would've rather a great couple of football games and see who came out on top. Who knows, it might still have been the Irish taking four points. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Oct 10, 2017 21:26:48 GMT
The tackle on Allen was completely unintentional. Allen is no shrinking violet himself - he caught Meyler with a bad tackle earlier in the game. Last night was Ireland's night and I don't think Allen would have made a difference. He might have added to the posession stats, but the one thing we've learned from 180 minutes of football between these two teams is that Wales don't have much in the way of penetration. Reminiscent of Van Gaal's United or De Boer's Crystal Palace. Ireland barely touched the ball in the first 20 minutes and Allen was running the game |
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Post by alarch on Oct 10, 2017 21:27:51 GMT
What punishment gets dished out for an offence should reflect intent, whether there is any recklessness and the outcome of the challenge. A shove in the back would normally be deemed a foul - but when the player is being pushed into another, and the outcome is a bad one then a yellow is the least that is merited.
In the build-up to the Georgia game S4C showed a montage of all the goals and key moments in all the games up to that point. It included Coleman's leg break - but from a different angle to that shown on YouTube. It confirms what I thought from those videos - both players arrive at the ball practically simultaneously (but not head on - so both are totally focussed on the ball and each is in the other's peripheral vision), but Taylor missed the ball to the right. Coleman then kicks through the ball cleanly and a split-second later catches Taylor's heel with full force on the most vulnerable part of his leg - just above the ankle. I can't think of another leg break like it where most of the momentum for the leg break comes from the person who suffers it (contrast that with Ramsey's leg break - when Shawcross's full body weight went into Ramsey's standing foot). Had Taylor made contact with the ball the outcome could have been very different.
Did Taylor deserve a red? Yes, because the way he approached the ball was reckless and out of control - and also because of the outcome. But there was zero intent, and a huge element of freakish misfortune. But the furious reaction to the leg-break is based mainly on the outcome rather than any fair-minded view of the action. Applying the same logic of focussing on the outcome McClean's push on Allen was certainly deserving of a yellow and possibly a red.
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Post by rushlegend on Oct 10, 2017 21:44:26 GMT
and allens tackle on meyler in the first half is a fair challenge...its calling the pot kettle
Spot on John - unfortunately Allen's late bad challenge set the tone then and low and behold he suffered later.
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Post by dragonslayer on Oct 10, 2017 22:09:47 GMT
Meyler and McClean knew exactly what they were doing, dirty bastards Joe was running the game and Ireland knew if you take him out then you force Ramsey deeper and Wales don't play as well, these kinds of tactics are a throwback and it was so obviously pre-meditated (Roy Keane definitely had a part to play) that I'm shocked the ref didn't even see it fit to book one of them Anyway, good luck to Ireland in the playoffs, your fans were great (although one I spoke to in the pub said "We're fucked" regarding Ireland's chances in the Playoffs) Try tell me any team ever in the history of football that has never used roughing up tactics. You can bet your life Meyler and McClean knew what they were doing, the same way Bale, Taylor etc tried it in Dublin. |
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Post by dai on Oct 10, 2017 22:12:29 GMT
Christ, another one........
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Post by dragonslayer on Oct 10, 2017 22:21:52 GMT
Take it on the chin lads, I'm sure losing to England late on last summer hurt more!
We forget what losing to England feels like.
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Post by dai on Oct 10, 2017 22:23:41 GMT
Take it on the chin lads, I'm sure losing to England late on last summer hurt more!We forget what losing to England feels like. Nope. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Oct 10, 2017 22:42:11 GMT
Meyler and McClean knew exactly what they were doing, dirty bastards Joe was running the game and Ireland knew if you take him out then you force Ramsey deeper and Wales don't play as well, these kinds of tactics are a throwback and it was so obviously pre-meditated (Roy Keane definitely had a part to play) that I'm shocked the ref didn't even see it fit to book one of them Anyway, good luck to Ireland in the playoffs, your fans were great (although one I spoke to in the pub said "We're fucked" regarding Ireland's chances in the Playoffs) Try tell me any team ever in the history of football that has never used roughing up tactics. You can bet your life Meyler and McClean knew what they were doing, the same way Bale, Taylor etc tried it in Dublin. Taylor, 50/50, bad tackle, definite red card although anyone with half a brain cell could tell that wasn't deliberate. Bale, cross comes in, he tries to score, O'Shea gets there first, good defending, yellow card at most. Talk about roughing up, how about the Irish players first half? Whelan's elbow on Joe Allen comes to mind |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 23:05:22 GMT
Take it on the chin lads, I'm sure losing to England late on last summer hurt more! We forget what losing to England feels like. No because Wales were poor that day and England deserved the win, despite some great last ditch defending. Think we've all made the mistake, including me of talking about red cards in the Ireland Wales games. Really it's the failure to dish out yellows that is the problem. Yellows should have been issued in both games to prevent the games from descending into physical farce. Both sides suffered injuries to great footballers as a consequence which completely spoiled what should have been more positively memorable occasions no matter who won. Now these games will be looked back on with bad blood and not the great footballing spectacles the tie deserved. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 10, 2017 23:07:41 GMT
Ireland clearly set out to hurt Allen, which in hindsight was wise. Without Allen we fell apart, Jonny Williams isn't 1/10 the player Allen is in that position. Most Ireland fans that I spoke to agreed that there was some sort of plan in place to hurt Allen.
The challenge that took him off didn't look overly intentional however.
Our main mistake was not bringing Edwards on imo. We looked very weak in midfield with Williams playing instead. We should have looked to sit back after Allen went off and allowed them to attack us, which they would have had to do, late on.
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Post by joseywales37 on Oct 10, 2017 23:35:06 GMT
Was tactical without a doubt, clever really on their part, they knew Bale gone, Ramsey, Ash, Kanu and especially Ledley were playing awful, so take out Allen who imo is really or most important player, wipe out any game plan we had. Changed the game, Ireland were very lucky this particular ref was officiating.
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Post by cadno on Oct 11, 2017 0:16:20 GMT
I agree that Taylor and Bale were reckless in Dublin, however you guys cannot even admit to yourselves that thuggery is part of your game. Do you not see that your play is thuggery or not? The irony is that you're referring to so-called Irish thuggery, whilst ignoring Welsh thuggery. After the Dublin game, Welsh fans justified the actions of Bale and Taylor by saying that Irelabd set the tone with rough tactics early on. You don't hear Irish fans bleating on about how Wales set the tone last night with Allen's late tackle on Meyler. You need to get over it Dai. Your team was beaten fairly and squarely. Wales had 3 hours of football and couldn't score. Bale went for the ball to score in that game, fact. |
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Post by cymroircarn on Oct 11, 2017 5:53:09 GMT
Ireland clearly set out to hurt Allen, which in hindsight was wise. Without Allen we fell apart, Jonny Williams isn't 1/10 the player Allen is in that position. Most Ireland fans that I spoke to agreed that there was some sort of plan in place to hurt Allen. The challenge that took him off didn't look overly intentional however. Our main mistake was not bringing Edwards on imo. We looked very weak in midfield with Williams playing instead. We should have looked to sit back after Allen went off and allowed them to attack us, which they would have had to do, late on. Edwards is also an attacking midfielder by trade though. I thought Williams had a good game and drew a number of fouls (still has no end product though). The mistake by Coleman was dropping Ramsey deep. If anybody, King should have played this role. His lack of impact on the game was frustrating. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 11, 2017 6:14:21 GMT
Ireland clearly set out to hurt Allen, which in hindsight was wise. Without Allen we fell apart, Jonny Williams isn't 1/10 the player Allen is in that position. Most Ireland fans that I spoke to agreed that there was some sort of plan in place to hurt Allen. The challenge that took him off didn't look overly intentional however. Our main mistake was not bringing Edwards on imo. We looked very weak in midfield with Williams playing instead. We should have looked to sit back after Allen went off and allowed them to attack us, which they would have had to do, late on. Edwards is also an attacking midfielder by trade though. Arguably much better as a physical presence in midfield. Williams' impact on the game ultimately led to nothing. |
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Post by vandenhauwe on Oct 11, 2017 7:59:47 GMT
They blatantly targeted allen no doubt instructions from that thug Roy Keane!!On wards and upwards thank God the groups over I just hope the eire fans leave this forum now.
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Post by zenith on Oct 11, 2017 8:06:06 GMT
Ireland clearly set out to hurt Allen, which in hindsight was wise. Without Allen we fell apart, Jonny Williams isn't 1/10 the player Allen is in that position. Most Ireland fans that I spoke to agreed that there was some sort of plan in place to hurt Allen. The challenge that took him off didn't look overly intentional however. Our main mistake was not bringing Edwards on imo. We looked very weak in midfield with Williams playing instead. We should have looked to sit back after Allen went off and allowed them to attack us, which they would have had to do, late on. Perhaps if we had full options available, Emyr Huws would have made an appearance instead. Hopefully Ampadu is available to play that role soon. |
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Post by cymroircarn on Oct 11, 2017 11:33:23 GMT
Edwards is also an attacking midfielder by trade though. Arguably much better as a physical presence in midfield. Williams' impact on the game ultimately led to nothing. Correct but it's all ifs and buts. Didn't Williams supply the cross to Hal? Either side of the keeper and it goes in and Coleman is a mastermind again. Small margins. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 11, 2017 11:39:17 GMT
I thought Jonny Williams did an excellent job when he came on. But he is no Joe Allen. Their tactic worked spot on.
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Post by alarch on Oct 11, 2017 11:44:51 GMT
Jonny Williams didn't take Allen's place though - Ramsey did. It's fair to say that Ramsey's no Joe Allen either - especially not zombie Ramsey.
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Post by dai on Oct 11, 2017 11:44:52 GMT
I thought Jonny Williams did an excellent job when he came on. But he is no Joe Allen. Their tactic worked spot on. I agree, Jonny looked sharp and lively when he came on. Unfortunately this was still playing a role which involved playing through the Iriish, and it wasn't working. We should have lobbed Vokes and HRK up top and go long ball, going through them wasn't going to happen. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 11, 2017 11:49:16 GMT
I thought Jonny Williams did an excellent job when he came on. But he is no Joe Allen. Their tactic worked spot on. I agree, Jonny looked sharp and lively when he came on. Unfortunately this was still playing a role which involved playing through the Iriish, and it wasn't working. We should have lobbed Vokes and HRK up top and go long ball, going through them wasn't going to happen. Definetly, he hit a brick wall every time he made forward progress. No outlets for him and to be fair, the Irish press was excellent from start to finish. |
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 11, 2017 18:01:06 GMT
Take it on the chin lads, I'm sure losing to England late on last summer hurt more! We forget what losing to England feels like. No, at least England didn't try and murder us. You lot do not deserve to go to the WC. I will hate you guys even more if you do. I usually want every team England play to win, and it will be just the same as you guys. Cheating scumbags. |
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Post by quetzal on Oct 11, 2017 18:07:07 GMT
Come on Lads give Ireland their time in the sun. They came to Cardiff and did a job on us. It's a physical game. It's starting to look like sour grapes from us. I really believe that Ireland's slump masked what was a disastrous group for us. If Ireland had nailed some obvious games we would have been gone a while back
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Post by alarch on Oct 11, 2017 18:10:01 GMT
We didn't play as a team. The way to get behind a team like ROI is by quick incisive passing and good movement. No individual player can do that alone - although Jonny Williams at least managed it once.
It was a collective failure. The idea that lobbing balls into the box (sorry didn't we try that?) would work against a team with a strong central defensive partnership leaves me shaking my head.
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Post by cymro on Oct 11, 2017 18:26:34 GMT
Take it on the chin lads, I'm sure losing to England late on last summer hurt more! We forget what losing to England feels like. When on earth did Ireland last play England in a competitive match. |
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Post by Tommy32 on Oct 12, 2017 8:41:40 GMT
Another thing that annoys me, and was constant in our campaign : Crossing the ball.
We seemed to be able to cross the ball when Hal was paying up top (not his strength, so we never won the headers), but as soon as Vokes comes on we never seem to get any crosses in the box at all.
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