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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 7, 2022 20:36:27 GMT
I'm probably a bit younger than quite a few of you, at 27. I probably have quite a different view of the managers to you all because I couldn't be as heavily invested in the era's under some of these managers. I grew up in Cardiff, in a house where my Dad was Welsh and my Mum was English. As a young kid my favourite player was David Beckham, and used to say I supported Wales & England. The first event that made me realise I felt more Welsh than English was watching us beat Italy under Hughes when I was 7. I felt a passion for that game that I'd never felt watching England win
So my first memories of the international scene was the Hughes campaign, which obviously caught national attention and had a lot of hype. I remember being really confident after the first leg against Russia and then absolutely gutted after the return leg. Looking back, some of the results in that campaign definitely made me feel Wales should be achieving much more. As I got a little older I always looked out for Wales results, but didn't follow it closely, so don't remember much of the Flynn/Tosh eras - I can't really comment on them
I did go to watch us lose 1-0 at home to Bulgaria in 2010, a very uninspiring performance where the highlight was Steve Morison getting a one-on-one and doing terribly with it. But it did feel like the team was in a low-ebb at the time, even though I wasn't that into it. This game was an interesting point of comparison to Speed's tenure however, because we then beat them away when we started to build momentum and Bale started improving
I remember being gutted to hear about Speed after there was such positivity building under him. I think the nation was very wounded after that, and it felt like it would be back to another low-ebb, which it was to a point under Coleman after his start
Looking back I feel the capping of younger players combined with Speed's professionalising & style of play had lead to a perfect storm under our noses. Coleman just needed to lift the spirits back up, and as a brilliant man manager he did just that - everything else fell into place because of the groundwork laid by previous managers, regardless of potential detriments to their respective reigns
I then remember going to the 0-0 in Bosnia - it definitely felt like something was happening. My imagination was captured, and I'd have gone to every home game that campaign if I wasn't a broke student. I did go to Belgium though, and I just knew something special was going to happen that night. That was the night the belief hit us all, and that belief would echo right up until the semi final
Obviously it wasn't just Coleman that put forward that Together Stronger campaign, but I think he deserves the most credit of all the managers we've had. I think if someone instead of Coleman had taken over at that time, they had good enough players to not do terribly, but I do think perhaps we wouldn't have qualified in 2016 - which has been the springboard for our recent successes
Giggs I believe deserves credit for capping a lot of players, and younger players himself whilst still getting us qualified for Euro 2020 - that was a massive achievement. He found Moore and Morrell. He threw Ampadu, Mepham, Brooks, Wilson, Tyler & James in - I think most would have done this, but to do it while getting us qualified is something else
Page is certainly reaping the rewards of the groundwork laid before him, but he still deserves credit. He's more of a Coleman type man-manager and seems more likeable than Giggs. The spirit is now back to the Euro 2016 level in the camp, you can see it. And this makes me excited for the World Cup again - it feels like we're about to ride another wave of belief
Despite all this, the amazing work done by the FAW as an organisation does make me feel as though Page isn't actually all that necessary - and I really don't mean that in a derogatory way. He's great, but it just feels like the whole operation is running so smoothly that any manager could get good results at the helm. It's a testament to how far the FAW has come
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Toshack
Jun 7, 2022 20:45:33 GMT
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Post by insertname on Jun 7, 2022 20:45:33 GMT
Yup. You could argue it was an opportunity missed. All the knowledge and experience those senior players could have passed on to the developing youngsters. We could have actually achieved something back then. Under Toshack. Madness. The opposite really, he was known as acting like an overgrown child. I thought he was class back then but hearing stories he would have been a negative influence. There are some well told tales of how Bellamy used to terrorise the young players with his temper tantrums and demanding nature. Not sure Savage would have been any worse an influence really. The difference of course, is that Bellamy scored goals so he was entitled to act how he liked. |
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Toshack
Jun 7, 2022 20:59:27 GMT
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Post by bale-droed on Jun 7, 2022 20:59:27 GMT
The opposite really, he was known as acting like an overgrown child. I thought he was class back then but hearing stories he would have been a negative influence. There are some well told tales of how Bellamy used to terrorise the young players with his temper tantrums and demanding nature. Not sure Savage would have been any worse an influence really. The difference of course, is that Bellamy scored goals so he was entitled to act how he liked. I can remember the post match San Marino interview and assuming now it was about that. Where can we find these stories online? |
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Toshack
Jun 7, 2022 21:06:36 GMT
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Post by marsvolta on Jun 7, 2022 21:06:36 GMT
The opposite really, he was known as acting like an overgrown child. I thought he was class back then but hearing stories he would have been a negative influence. There are some well told tales of how Bellamy used to terrorise the young players with his temper tantrums and demanding nature. Not sure Savage would have been any worse an influence really. The difference of course, is that Bellamy scored goals so he was entitled to act how he liked. I think the stories about Bellamy were more about him being demanding and competitive in 5 a side games than terrorising them. Would still have been intimidating for a young player though. There weee other stories about him being one of the senior players who would welcome new players in the hotel when they first had a call up. |
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Toshack
Jun 7, 2022 21:08:24 GMT
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Post by insertname on Jun 7, 2022 21:08:24 GMT
There are some well told tales of how Bellamy used to terrorise the young players with his temper tantrums and demanding nature. Not sure Savage would have been any worse an influence really. The difference of course, is that Bellamy scored goals so he was entitled to act how he liked. I can remember the post match San Marino interview and assuming now it was about that. Where can we find these stories online? It’s been said on here back in the day, when Tosh was in charge (or on the old DS as that was active during Tosh’s era). When in full flow I can imagine he must have been a pretty terrifying prospect for young players new to the group. |
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Post by cadno on Jun 7, 2022 21:17:36 GMT
I see the FAW and the players who played under Toshack for Wales and Speed just giving Gary Speed all the credit. I’m just not hearing any praise for Tosh and Flynn from within the camp. It’s obvious they planted the seeds. Gary a great guy of course. We love him. He brought professionalism and a vision. Maybe Tosh just rubs people up the wrong way. It’s because as we all know Tosh deserves 0 credit As time moves on he gets more because of the “ He played youngsters blah blah blah “ the truth is when he was playing Bale, Ramsey, Wayne and evening Gunter they were the best available options at the time it’s that simple. Wayne had broken the efl record for longest time without conceding , Bale was the most expensive transfer in the Welsh team followed by Ramsey. Everyone forgets Tosh’s I’ll throw shit cluelessly and see what happens. Mark Bradley? Steve Evans ? List goes on and on and on he was the worst manager in Welsh history after Gould. Look at where he went after Wales the football world outside Wales certainly didn’t think he did a good job Hang on, Tosh introduced 5 at the back first, he also stopped the 'up and at em' long ball attitude and encouraged the youngsters to pass it on the floor + keep posession. One of the best performances under him that I can remember was against Scotland in 2009, when Rambo absolutely bossed things. Speed made some impact in a short amount of time (10 games) by introuducing more sports science, professionalism etc. Cookie then had 5 or 6 years in charge, and did brilliantly. Agree Giggs deffo made us more attacking, and again introduced a lot of youngsters. Had he kept Ash + Chester involved and one or two others, I actually think we could've done better at euro 2020, and maybe beat a top side like Denmark. That's another argument! + the youngsters that did play are in a good place for this years world cup now. Page has done a good job, I wanted him or Robinson to get the job after Cookie, some of his tactical decisions have been frustrating, but overall he's done brilliantly, and the squad certainly enjoy playing under him. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 7, 2022 21:59:59 GMT
To be fair Toshack always insisted that the pain of playing loads of youngsters when he had the team would be worth it in the long run, as the experience would help them and we would see the benefit in the future when they qualified for tournaments. He may have been an old fashioned coach but he blooded so many youngsters on mass and set himself up for a fall by doing so. He played his part even if it was Speed who accelerated the development by modernising things. We always cry about our young players when at premier clubs should go on loan down the divisions to gain experience as that is how you develop. Well Tosh did that at international level The argument is that he didn't really have any choice but to do so. There was no rocket science to it. Any manager coming in then (particularly one who cheesed off half the senior players the way Tosh did) would have probably done exactly the same thing. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 7, 2022 22:14:31 GMT
Mad that Andrew Crofts played for us as recently as 2017!!
That link to 33 capped by Tosh has inspired me to look at how many Giggs capped...he capped 17 in just 2 years in charge, which is quite a lot if we're being fair! A lot of them are hits too!
James - hit
Mepham - hit
Morrell - hit
Moore - hit
Connor Roberts - hit
Tyler Roberts - jury's out
Adam Davies - jury's out
Bodin - miss
Rodon - hit
Smith - jury's out
James Lawrence - miss
Matondo - jury's out
Vaulks - miss
George Thomas - miss
Freeman - miss
Norrington-Davies - hit
Cabango - jury's out
7 hits, 5 jury's out, 5 miss's - a good track record I'd say in a short time
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Post by jimexotic on Jun 7, 2022 22:23:37 GMT
Post Gould you can credit anyone involved in the set up to a certain degree, they've all been part of the journey. We thought 2016 was amazing but it felt like that was going to be all we had and normal service would be resumed. 6 years on and normal service is qualifying for tournaments and more young talent emerging. Yes and No. What legacy do you believe that Sparky left as manager? From a mentality perspective he made us realise we weren't as bad as we and everyone thought, we beat Italy and we made it to the play offs. I know we screwed it up but still, after the Gould dross it was a nice feeling to think we could win a few games. For me everything post Gould was laying foundations, some only tiny, as we were gradually getting back on our feet from those hopeless days. The Georgia and Moldova defeats were so utterly soul destroying that, at the age of 11, I'd given up hope of ever seeing us qualify for a major tournament and Brazil and Croatia were temporarily my two international sides that I followed at major tournaments because I liked the way they played and I wanted to have a team to support during a tournament like all my mates that supported England. Reading that makes me realise just how amazing this all is, we've defied everyone to become a decent international side, 2016 was supposed to be a flash in the pan. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 7, 2022 22:42:37 GMT
It’s because as we all know Tosh deserves 0 credit As time moves on he gets more because of the “ He played youngsters blah blah blah “ the truth is when he was playing Bale, Ramsey, Wayne and evening Gunter they were the best available options at the time it’s that simple. Wayne had broken the efl record for longest time without conceding , Bale was the most expensive transfer in the Welsh team followed by Ramsey. Everyone forgets Tosh’s I’ll throw shit cluelessly and see what happens. Mark Bradley? Steve Evans ? List goes on and on and on he was the worst manager in Welsh history after Gould. Look at where he went after Wales the football world outside Wales certainly didn’t think he did a good job Hang on, Tosh introduced 5 at the back first, he also stopped the 'up and at em' long ball attitude and encouraged the youngsters to pass it on the floor + keep posession. One of the best performances under him that I can remember was against Scotland in 2009, when Rambo absolutely bossed things. Speed made some impact in a short amount of time (10 games) by introuducing more sports science, professionalism etc. Cookie then had 5 or 6 years in charge, and did brilliantly. Agree Giggs deffo made us more attacking, and again introduced a lot of youngsters. Had he kept Ash + Chester involved and one or two others, I actually think we could've done better at euro 2020, and maybe beat a top side like Denmark. That's another argument! + the youngsters that did play are in a good place for this years world cup now. Page has done a good job, I wanted him or Robinson to get the job after Cookie, some of his tactical decisions have been frustrating, but overall he's done brilliantly, and the squad certainly enjoy playing under him. With how our players were playing so little for their clubs, and how we got shafted by UEFA in terms of fans, I really don't see how we could have done any better than we did tbh |
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Toshack
Jun 7, 2022 22:42:39 GMT
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Post by bale-droed on Jun 7, 2022 22:42:39 GMT
Mad that Andrew Crofts played for us as recently as 2017!! That link to 33 capped by Tosh has inspired me to look at how many Giggs capped...he capped 17 in just 2 years in charge, which is quite a lot if we're being fair! A lot of them are hits too! James - hit Mepham - hit Morrell - hit Moore - hit Connor Roberts - hit Tyler Roberts - jury's out Adam Davies - jury's out Bodin - miss Rodon - hit Smith - jury's out James Lawrence - miss Matondo - jury's out Vaulks - miss George Thomas - miss Freeman - miss Norrington-Davies - hit Cabango - jury's out 7 hits, 5 jury's out, 5 miss's - a good track record I'd say in a short time Fair play to you that’s some good work. I thought Cabango would be like Rodon for us. I hope just as everyone does that he still becomes a very good player.... However in hindsight he wasn’t ( possibly rested) in the starting lineup for TNS v Cambrian when they lost. He came on at 1-0 and didn’t do much to prevent the second goal then 6 months later he was playing for Wales so a bit weird how so many of us got excited. It is crazy Croft’s played in 2017 Bodins debut was the China cup final that was a shame I wanted to win that! James Lawrence was always going to be a miss |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 7, 2022 22:46:43 GMT
Yes and No. What legacy do you believe that Sparky left as manager? From a mentality perspective he made us realise we weren't as bad as we and everyone thought, we beat Italy and we made it to the play offs. I know we screwed it up but still, after the Gould dross it was a nice feeling to think we could win a few games. For me everything post Gould was laying foundations, some only tiny, as we were gradually getting back on our feet from those hopeless days. The Georgia and Moldova defeats were so utterly soul destroying that, at the age of 11, I'd given up hope of ever seeing us qualify for a major tournament and Brazil and Croatia were temporarily my two international sides that I followed at major tournaments because I liked the way they played and I wanted to have a team to support during a tournament like all my mates that supported England. Reading that makes me realise just how amazing this all is, we've defied everyone to become a decent international side, 2016 was supposed to be a flash in the pan.I think we're actually on the precipice of becoming the next Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden. Basically small nation who has their sh*t together and regularly qualifies despite not being one of the traditional European giants - expecting to qualify more often than not. And basically dipping in and out of being 1 & 2 seeds, never really lower than that. We've got a bit more work to do to get our national league up to scratch, but once we do that I think we'll enter that little league of teams |
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Toshack
Jun 7, 2022 23:02:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by insertname on Jun 7, 2022 23:02:30 GMT
Mad that Andrew Crofts played for us as recently as 2017!! That link to 33 capped by Tosh has inspired me to look at how many Giggs capped...he capped 17 in just 2 years in charge, which is quite a lot if we're being fair! A lot of them are hits too! James - hit Mepham - hit Morrell - hit Moore - hit Connor Roberts - hit Tyler Roberts - jury's out Adam Davies - jury's out Bodin - miss Rodon - hit Smith - jury's out James Lawrence - miss Matondo - jury's out Vaulks - miss George Thomas - miss Freeman - miss Norrington-Davies - hit Cabango - jury's out 7 hits, 5 jury's out, 5 miss's - a good track record I'd say in a short time Bodin could possibly have been a hit if he hadn’t suffered key injuries at various times. He certainly didn’t lack talent |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 7, 2022 23:09:01 GMT
From a mentality perspective he made us realise we weren't as bad as we and everyone thought, we beat Italy and we made it to the play offs. I know we screwed it up but still, after the Gould dross it was a nice feeling to think we could win a few games. For me everything post Gould was laying foundations, some only tiny, as we were gradually getting back on our feet from those hopeless days. The Georgia and Moldova defeats were so utterly soul destroying that, at the age of 11, I'd given up hope of ever seeing us qualify for a major tournament and Brazil and Croatia were temporarily my two international sides that I followed at major tournaments because I liked the way they played and I wanted to have a team to support during a tournament like all my mates that supported England. Reading that makes me realise just how amazing this all is, we've defied everyone to become a decent international side, 2016 was supposed to be a flash in the pan.I think we're actually on the precipice of becoming the next Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden. Basically small nation who has their sh*t together and regularly qualifies despite not being one of the traditional European giants - expecting to qualify more often than not. And basically dipping in and out of being 1 & 2 seeds, never really lower than that. We've got a bit more work to do to get our national league up to scratch, but once we do that I think we'll enter that little league of teams That would be incredible if we could achieve that. Thinking big. I'm just happy qualifying for one World Cup, which I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. I fear the story may be more similar to Romania/Bulgaria in the 90's. We enjoy a golden age followed by a swift return to the abyss of never qualifying for another major tournament again (or at least struggling to qualify). |
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Toshack
Jun 7, 2022 23:12:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by insertname on Jun 7, 2022 23:12:04 GMT
From a mentality perspective he made us realise we weren't as bad as we and everyone thought, we beat Italy and we made it to the play offs. I know we screwed it up but still, after the Gould dross it was a nice feeling to think we could win a few games. For me everything post Gould was laying foundations, some only tiny, as we were gradually getting back on our feet from those hopeless days. The Georgia and Moldova defeats were so utterly soul destroying that, at the age of 11, I'd given up hope of ever seeing us qualify for a major tournament and Brazil and Croatia were temporarily my two international sides that I followed at major tournaments because I liked the way they played and I wanted to have a team to support during a tournament like all my mates that supported England. Reading that makes me realise just how amazing this all is, we've defied everyone to become a decent international side, 2016 was supposed to be a flash in the pan.I think we're actually on the precipice of becoming the next Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden. Basically small nation who has their sh*t together and regularly qualifies despite not being one of the traditional European giants - expecting to qualify more often than not. And basically dipping in and out of being 1 & 2 seeds, never really lower than that. We've got a bit more work to do to get our national league up to scratch, but once we do that I think we'll enter that little league of teams I dunno, we’ve had to walk some fine margins this campaign, that’s how hard WC qualifying is. There’s a very good reason why we didn’t qualify for 64 years including a campaign when our players were at their peak. Whilst the squad and the home record have powered this campaign we still needed Bale to be the difference in the latter stages, rather reminiscent of the match winner role he used to play in his prime in the 2015 Euros campaign. I wouldn’t back us to walk this same path perfectly again in 4 years time with no Bale around However with a slight increase in numbers from Europe at the next World Cup maybe the margins will be a bit looser and we won’t need a player like Bale to make the difference. The Euros, being 24 teams, we should expect to be qualifying for though. |
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Post by cadno on Jun 7, 2022 23:13:39 GMT
Hang on, Tosh introduced 5 at the back first, he also stopped the 'up and at em' long ball attitude and encouraged the youngsters to pass it on the floor + keep posession. One of the best performances under him that I can remember was against Scotland in 2009, when Rambo absolutely bossed things. Speed made some impact in a short amount of time (10 games) by introuducing more sports science, professionalism etc. Cookie then had 5 or 6 years in charge, and did brilliantly. Agree Giggs deffo made us more attacking, and again introduced a lot of youngsters. Had he kept Ash + Chester involved and one or two others, I actually think we could've done better at euro 2020, and maybe beat a top side like Denmark. That's another argument! + the youngsters that did play are in a good place for this years world cup now. Page has done a good job, I wanted him or Robinson to get the job after Cookie, some of his tactical decisions have been frustrating, but overall he's done brilliantly, and the squad certainly enjoy playing under him. With how our players were playing so little for their clubs, and how we got shafted by UEFA in terms of fans, I really don't see how we could have done any better than we did tbh True tbf. Covid messed things up too. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 7, 2022 23:35:05 GMT
Mad that Andrew Crofts played for us as recently as 2017!! That link to 33 capped by Tosh has inspired me to look at how many Giggs capped...he capped 17 in just 2 years in charge, which is quite a lot if we're being fair! A lot of them are hits too! James - hit Mepham - hit Morrell - hit Moore - hit Connor Roberts - hit Tyler Roberts - jury's out Adam Davies - jury's out Bodin - miss Rodon - hit Smith - jury's out James Lawrence - miss Matondo - jury's out Vaulks - miss George Thomas - miss Freeman - miss Norrington-Davies - hit Cabango - jury's out 7 hits, 5 jury's out, 5 miss's - a good track record I'd say in a short time Fair play to you that’s some good work. I thought Cabango would be like Rodon for us. I hope just as everyone does that he still becomes a very good player.... However in hindsight he wasn’t ( possibly rested) in the starting lineup for TNS v Cambrian when they lost. He came on at 1-0 and didn’t do much to prevent the second goal then 6 months later he was playing for Wales so a bit weird how so many of us got excited. It is crazy Croft’s played in 2017 Bodins debut was the China cup final that was a shame I wanted to win that! James Lawrence was always going to be a miss Agree re: Cabango, I still think he'll be a good Championship player but I don't think he'll be another Rodon now |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 7, 2022 23:39:33 GMT
I think we're actually on the precipice of becoming the next Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden. Basically small nation who has their sh*t together and regularly qualifies despite not being one of the traditional European giants - expecting to qualify more often than not. And basically dipping in and out of being 1 & 2 seeds, never really lower than that. We've got a bit more work to do to get our national league up to scratch, but once we do that I think we'll enter that little league of teams That would be incredible if we could achieve that. Thinking big. I'm just happy qualifying for one World Cup, which I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. I fear the story may be more similar to Romania/Bulgaria in the 90's. We enjoy a golden age followed by a swift return to the abyss of never qualifying for another major tournament again (or at least struggling to qualify). I think we've improved our talent conveyor belt too much for that. And whilst we're up this high, dual-qualifieds will routinely declare for us too. We might not always have a Bale, but we'll always have a decent standard of squad |
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Toshack
Jun 8, 2022 5:49:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by njdragon on Jun 8, 2022 5:49:54 GMT
Also here’s a bonus Look at the age of debuts here www.transfermarkt.co.uk/john-toshack/debuetanten/trainer/1825/liga/WMQ6/plus/1/sort/zeitraum/page/2 Giving Easter a debut at 27. Could’ve been playing vokes or ched Evans if he was that much of a visionary Never played Bale forward Ramsey got his debut after his move to Arsenal 😂 Like WTF do people think Toshack actually achieved He gave Ash Williams his debut at 24 and Partridge at 26 Tosh looked at them both who were playing at a similar standard club wise and he couldn’t judge character or ability and gave them both caps because he had 0 management skill. He gave Partridge 7 caps. Was the future was he? Never played Bale in an advanced position? Bullshit. You must be Harry Redknapp! Did you not watch Bale as a teenager terrorise Russia on the left wing in Moscow? Tosh and Wales first spotted and utilised his potential. Really its so sad to see blinkered opinions. The English press give Redknapp praise for spotting Bale's potential and moving him forward, Fact is Tosh spotted it 2 years before him and Redknapp was going to sell him to Portsmouth at one time for £2mn!! Was Flynn who actually pushed bale forward not tosh. He actually suggested it to Harry rednapp There is an interview with Flynn about this. |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 8, 2022 5:55:12 GMT
Also here’s a bonus Look at the age of debuts here www.transfermarkt.co.uk/john-toshack/debuetanten/trainer/1825/liga/WMQ6/plus/1/sort/zeitraum/page/2 Giving Easter a debut at 27. Could’ve been playing vokes or ched Evans if he was that much of a visionary Never played Bale forward Ramsey got his debut after his move to Arsenal 😂 Like WTF do people think Toshack actually achieved He gave Ash Williams his debut at 24 and Partridge at 26 Tosh looked at them both who were playing at a similar standard club wise and he couldn’t judge character or ability and gave them both caps because he had 0 management skill. He gave Partridge 7 caps. Was the future was he? Never played Bale in an advanced position? Bullshit. You must be Harry Redknapp! Did you not watch Bale as a teenager terrorise Russia on the left wing in Moscow? Tosh and Wales first spotted and utilised his potential. Really its so sad to see blinkered opinions. The English press give Redknapp praise for spotting Bale's potential and moving him forward, Fact is Tosh spotted it 2 years before him and Redknapp was going to sell him to Portsmouth at one time for £2mn!! Flynn: 'We had a lad called Rhoys Wiggins who was our left-back. I knew I had to get Gareth in that team. So I used him further forward. He was, well, he was sensational. 'Not long afterwards, we trained at Spurs once and Harry's assistant Joe Jordan was there. Gareth had been there six or seven months and they hadn't won. 'I called Joe over and said: "What's the story with Bale?" 'He replied that he wasn't better than Benoit Assou-Ekotto, so he wouldn't be getting in at left-back. Welsh wizard: Bale has 39 caps for his country, and has scored 10 goals in Wales colours 'So I said: "I know he's only young still - but have you ever tried him further forward? Once he gets in there, he will stay there. "Assure Harry I'm not trying to do his job for him, but just pass it on, Joe, will you?' |
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Toshack
Jun 8, 2022 7:37:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by conwy10 on Jun 8, 2022 7:37:08 GMT
Never played Bale in an advanced position? Bullshit. You must be Harry Redknapp! Did you not watch Bale as a teenager terrorise Russia on the left wing in Moscow? Tosh and Wales first spotted and utilised his potential. Really its so sad to see blinkered opinions. The English press give Redknapp praise for spotting Bale's potential and moving him forward, Fact is Tosh spotted it 2 years before him and Redknapp was going to sell him to Portsmouth at one time for £2mn!! Was Flynn who actually pushed bale forward not tosh. He actually suggested it to Harry rednapp There is an interview with Flynn about this. I remember the Russia match and he was played further forward. Might have played there in the U21's but Seniors he played there against Russia. |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 8, 2022 8:45:38 GMT
Was Flynn who actually pushed bale forward not tosh. He actually suggested it to Harry rednapp There is an interview with Flynn about this. I remember the Russia match and he was played further forward. Might have played there in the U21's but Seniors he played there against Russia. yes dont doubt that, my point is this was master stroke by Flynn and not tosh or Rednapp. So all credit to flynn here for playing bale further up |
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Post by texan on Jun 8, 2022 10:41:44 GMT
Also here’s a bonus Look at the age of debuts here ... Giving Easter a debut at 27. Could’ve been playing vokes or ched Evans if he was that much of a visionary Neither of those had even made their U21 debuts yet when Easter was called up. Vokes had only been identified as Welsh qualified by Flynn in Jan 2007 (he'd only made his debut for Bournemouth 3 weeks prior in Dec 06). Easter made his debut in Feb 2007 and at the time he was regarded as a huge prospect, had scored in every round of the league cup and taken Wycombe to the semi's, also think he'd scored against Chelsea in one match. Only a week prior to his debut he was the subject of a transfer enquiry by Man City and another EPL club I (forget who). We were struggling to score, Easter was regarded as a late-blooming poacher with a bright future, the selection made perfect sense. Ironically, both Evans and Vokes made their U21 debuts on the exact same day as Easter did for the seniors. Vokes/Evans playing against NI U21's in the afternoon (Vokes scored once & Evans scored twice in a 4-0 win) with Easter coming on as a sub v the seniors in the evening. |
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Toshack
Jun 8, 2022 11:37:40 GMT
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Post by bale-droed on Jun 8, 2022 11:37:40 GMT
Also here’s a bonus Look at the age of debuts here ... Giving Easter a debut at 27. Could’ve been playing vokes or ched Evans if he was that much of a visionary Neither of those had even made their U21 debuts yet when Easter was called up. Vokes had only been identified as Welsh qualified by Flynn in Jan 2007 (he'd only made his debut for Bournemouth 3 weeks prior in Dec 06). Easter made his debut in Feb 2007 and at the time he was regarded as a huge prospect, had scored in every round of the league cup and taken Wycombe to the semi's, also think he'd scored against Chelsea in one match. Only a week prior to his debut he was the subject of a transfer enquiry by Man City and another EPL club I (forget who). We were struggling to score, Easter was regarded as a late-blooming poacher with a bright future, the selection made perfect sense. Ironically, both Evans and Vokes made their U21 debuts on the exact same day as Easter did for the seniors. Vokes/Evans playing against NI U21's in the afternoon (Vokes scored once & Evans scored twice in a 4-0 win) with Easter coming on as a sub v the seniors in the evening. Rite ok so as far as I’m concerned you’ve helped me back my point.So after 1 cap how come Tosh then gave him another 11? Why did he then not put Evans into the seniors? When Bale , Ramsey and co were 25/26 we were still going to be using Easter upfront ? He was no great youth visionary. It wasn’t like the class of 95 was it? |
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Post by texan on Jun 8, 2022 11:57:06 GMT
Neither of those had even made their U21 debuts yet when Easter was called up. Vokes had only been identified as Welsh qualified by Flynn in Jan 2007 (he'd only made his debut for Bournemouth 3 weeks prior in Dec 06). Easter made his debut in Feb 2007 and at the time he was regarded as a huge prospect, had scored in every round of the league cup and taken Wycombe to the semi's, also think he'd scored against Chelsea in one match. Only a week prior to his debut he was the subject of a transfer enquiry by Man City and another EPL club I (forget who). We were struggling to score, Easter was regarded as a late-blooming poacher with a bright future, the selection made perfect sense. Ironically, both Evans and Vokes made their U21 debuts on the exact same day as Easter did for the seniors. Vokes/Evans playing against NI U21's in the afternoon (Vokes scored once & Evans scored twice in a 4-0 win) with Easter coming on as a sub v the seniors in the evening. Rite ok so as far as I’m concerned you’ve helped me back my point.So after 1 cap how come Tosh then gave him another 11? Why did he then not put Evans into the seniors? When Bale , Ramsey and co were 25/26 we were still going to be using Easter upfront ? He was no great youth visionary. It wasn’t like the class of 95 was it? Not really, did we dump Levitt after 1 cap when everyone thought he was shit? He's been pilloried for 'taking punts' on players like Easter but also for *not* taking punts on players like Vokes/Evans after only one U21 cap. Which is it? *Edit: He gave him another 7, not 11. Tosh gave up on him after 8 caps in 2009 and didn't select him for the remaining 11 months until his resignation. Easter's final 4 caps came afterwards. Two under Speed in the Nations Cup and two under Coleman (in 2013 & 2014 respectively). |
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Post by bale-droed on Jun 8, 2022 14:14:18 GMT
Rite ok so as far as I’m concerned you’ve helped me back my point.So after 1 cap how come Tosh then gave him another 11? Why did he then not put Evans into the seniors? When Bale , Ramsey and co were 25/26 we were still going to be using Easter upfront ? He was no great youth visionary. It wasn’t like the class of 95 was it? Not really, did we dump Levitt after 1 cap when everyone thought he was shit? He's been pilloried for 'taking punts' on players like Easter but also for *not* taking punts on players like Vokes/Evans after only one U21 cap. Which is it? *Edit: He gave him another 7, not 11. Tosh gave up on him after 8 caps in 2009 and didn't select him for the remaining 11 months until his resignation. Easter's final 4 caps came afterwards. Two under Speed in the Nations Cup and two under Coleman (in 2013 & 2014 respectively). TLDR the point is he didn’t start any youth revolution and was clueless and should get no praise. He only picked youth after they’d achieved something at club level that includes Bale, Ramsey , Wayne and Gunter. All played first team football in the football league before a senior cap unlike someone like Giggs for example. Giggs believed in youngsters before clubs Tosh did not. I am now getting on with my life |
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Post by texan on Jun 8, 2022 14:23:10 GMT
TLDR the point is he didn’t start any youth revolution and was clueless and should get no praise. He only picked youth after they’d achieved something at club level that includes Bale, Ramsey , Wayne and Gunter. All played first team football in the football league before a senior cap unlike someone like Giggs for example. Giggs believed in youngsters before clubs Tosh did not. I am now getting on with my life Well there we go then, if you don't have the courtesy to read other's opinions there's no point in continuing. |
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Post by iot on Oct 24, 2022 20:00:05 GMT
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Toshack
Oct 24, 2022 20:18:18 GMT
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Post by welshrover on Oct 24, 2022 20:18:18 GMT
Brilliant! Except Bale thinks he was in Sociadad (which isn't even a place) when he was actually in Bilbao!! |
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Post by iot on Oct 24, 2022 20:58:53 GMT
Brilliant! Except Bale thinks he was in Sociadad (which isn't even a place) when he was actually in Bilbao!! Be fair, it's not like he's lived out in that part of the world for years or anything ha! |
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