Giggs

[richierich333]

Nov 17, 2017 15:34:00 GMT dai said:

Ryan, is that you?

[richierich333]

I normally slightly lean towards defending him but I'm going to sit this one out...

[fiveattheback]

Elis James covers the whole "Well if the fans don't turn up why should the players" argument quite well in his podcast by saying: "Its an honour to play for Wales, its not an honour to buy a ticket"

My first Wales game was Giggs' last (Czech Republic, 2007) and for a player who made over 1,000 career appearances to make just 64 of those for his country is disgraceful in my view. He was "active" for Wales for 16 years (from his debut to his final appearance) and made 21 fewer appearances for Wales than Chris Gunter has in 10 years

If it was between, for example, Bellamy and Giggs for our next manager I know who I'd want

[welsh]

Nov 17, 2017 15:34:00 GMT dai said:

Ryan, is that you?

Unfortunately not, he's too busy working for ITV on England games

[blackfish]

Nov 17, 2017 16:03:33 GMT welsh said:

Nov 17, 2017 15:34:00 GMT dai said:

Ryan, is that you?

Unfortunately not, he's too busy working for ITV on England games

And shagging other people's wives. 

[dai]

Nov 17, 2017 16:03:33 GMT welsh said:

Nov 17, 2017 15:34:00 GMT dai said:

Ryan, is that you?

Unfortunately not, he's too busy working for ITV on England games

Only messing around. In all fairness I'm not 100% against the idea of having him as manager, but I wouldn't choose him.

[welsh]

Nov 17, 2017 16:03:24 GMT fiveattheback said:

Elis James covers the whole "Well if the fans don't turn up why should the players" argument quite well in his podcast by saying: "Its an honour to play for Wales, its not an honour to buy a ticket"

My first Wales game was Giggs' last (Czech Republic, 2007) and for a player who made over 1,000 career appearances to make just 64 of those for his country is disgraceful in my view. He was "active" for Wales for 16 years (from his debut to his final appearance) and made 21 fewer appearances for Wales than Chris Gunter has in 10 years

If it was between, for example, Bellamy and Giggs for our next manager I know who I'd want

I'll have to have a listen, but the I can see where you're coming from with the quote at the end.. however the video still doing the rounds on social media is the anthem against ROI labelled 'best anthem in the world, best fans' I have no doubt we have the best anthem in the world but after a tough campaign in where we narrowly missed out, why haven't fans turned up to show their appreciation for all the hard work the players put in? too close to rugby season for bandwagoners to fork out for both football and rugby tickets?

[welsh]

Nov 17, 2017 16:08:54 GMT blackfish said:

Nov 17, 2017 16:03:33 GMT welsh said:

Unfortunately not, he's too busy working for ITV on England games

And shagging other people's wives. 

Adults are tryna have a discussion here. Thanks, Nice to hear from you though Rhodri.

[alarch]

I think it's a point well made welsh, and I agree that this not turning up for Wales line is completely over-played. It's also conveniently forgotten that he was often genuinely injured, especially in the early part of his career. The main reason I'm lukewarm about him becoming Welsh manager is down to his lack of experience, nor anything in his punditry that suggests that he has any great insight into the game. If he is appointed it would be for flimsy and superficial reasons.

[welsh]

Nov 17, 2017 16:25:52 GMT alarch said:

I think it's a point well made welsh, and I agree that this not turning up for Wales line is completely over-played. It's also conveniently forgotten that he was often genuinely injured, especially in the early part of his career. The main reason I'm lukewarm about him becoming Welsh manager is down to his lack of experience, nor anything in his punditry that suggests that he has any great insight into the game. If he is appointed it would be for flimsy and superficial reasons.

I'm in no way campaigning for Giggs to get the job, especially off comments made such as 'He played for Fergie for all them years he must have learnt something' you only need to look as far as Gary Neville to see how that worked out.

[pendragon]

My biggest concern right now is his lack of managerial experience. We are at a critical transitional stage of Welsh football if Coleman leaves now and we get the next appointment wrong. As stated in other threads, we risk losing all that has been achieved.

My main concern for the time being is whether he is the best person for the job, given the pool of candidates available.

My initial reaction tells me that now is not the right time.

Let him build up a managerial profile for himself first, then go back to the table if a job becomes available and that is what he still wants.

So many things to consider: Could he build the same rapport with fans and players? Could he earn their trust and respect? Is he a good strategist? Is he bold, dynamic and innovative? Is he committed enough?

In my opinion, he needs to prove himself first I'm afraid.

[welsh]

Nov 17, 2017 16:39:57 GMT pendragon said:

My biggest concern right now is his lack of managerial experience. We are at a critical transitional stage of Welsh football if Coleman leaves now and we get the next appointment wrong. As stated in other threads, we risk losing all that has been achieved.

My main concern for the time being is whether he is the best person for the job, given the pool of candidates available.

My initial reaction tells me that now is not the right time.

Let him build up a managerial profile for himself first, then go back to the table if a job becomes available and that is what he still wants.

So many things to consider: Could he build the same rapport with fans and players? Could he earn their trust and respect? Is he a good strategist? Is he bold, dynamic and innovative? Is he committed enough?

In my opinion, he needs to prove himself first I'm afraid.

All very valid points, but what had Hughes done? Yes, he was a lot more liked by the fans and players a like, but he came into it without having proven himself? He didn't build his manager profile?

What pool of candidates? Dean Saunders is 5th favourite to take the job, I wouldn't let that man manage my kids u8s team. Kenny Jackett second favourite? The mans a dinosaur. Pulis 3rd favourite? not pretty but efficient.

[pendragon]

Nov 17, 2017 16:46:10 GMT welsh said:

Nov 17, 2017 16:39:57 GMT pendragon said:

My biggest concern right now is his lack of managerial experience. We are at a critical transitional stage of Welsh football if Coleman leaves now and we get the next appointment wrong. As stated in other threads, we risk losing all that has been achieved.

My main concern for the time being is whether he is the best person for the job, given the pool of candidates available.

My initial reaction tells me that now is not the right time.

Let him build up a managerial profile for himself first, then go back to the table if a job becomes available and that is what he still wants.

So many things to consider: Could he build the same rapport with fans and players? Could he earn their trust and respect? Is he a good strategist? Is he bold, dynamic and innovative? Is he committed enough?

In my opinion, he needs to prove himself first I'm afraid.

All very valid points, but what had Hughes done? Yes, he was a lot more liked by the fans and players a like, but he came into it without having proven himself? He didn't build his manager profile?

What pool of candidates? Dean Saunders is 5th favourite to take the job, I wouldn't let that man manage my kids u8s team. Kenny Jackett second favourite? The mans a dinosaur. Pulis 3rd favourite? not pretty but efficient.

The past is different. We had nothing to lose back then, or at least a lot less than we do now. If we want to build on our past success and start a new era where we have a good prospect and realistic expectation of regularly qualifying for tournaments and snapping up some of the strongest and brightest in youth football, we absolutely need the right man for the job.
The threshhold is much higher now in my opinion.
My preference is for Coleman by some margin. Obviously if we don't get him, I do think we will get Giggs and it will be a step into the unknown. The likes of Saunders and Hughes do not inspire me in the least. Pulis has at least managed a premier league club. Not sure if he could build that special rapport though and I'm not sure how he would go about our tactical approaches. Would he favour a possession-based style for our team as so many fans would prefer? I do think he would be very effective with managing the youth contingent of the Wales side and fast-tracking them into the team though.

[alarch]

If Coleman goes our budget will mean that we won't be able to get a big name, we will have to go for a managerial rookie such as Giggs or a mediocre manager at the end of his career. Alternatively we can make a left-field, high-risk, high-reward appointment. Here's a few suggestions:

Eddie Niedzwiecki: assistant with Mark Hughes at Stoke, and at all previous clubs. Gabbidon and Roberts are positively effusive about him on a recent Elis James podcast. He's also impressed me with his articulacy when doing punditry work on Wales matches in the past. Welsh and experienced - but can he be a number 1?

Graham Potter: This would be a huge gamble - but a tremendously exciting one when you consider the wonders he's worked at Ostersunds: edition.cnn.com/2017/09/28/football/ostersunds-sweden-europa-league-daniel-kindberg-graham-potter/index.html. I'd like to know a bit more about his footballing philosophy, but his man-management credentials are clearly second to none (not even Chris Coleman). It would be worth appointing him just to see Joe Ledley perform in Swan Lake...

Graeme Jones: Current assistant to Martinez, and assistant with Martinez at Swansea, Wigan and Everton. Very highly regarded at Swansea - reflected in the fact that he was approached by Swansea on several occasions when managerial vacancies arose. It's not known why he declined the opportunities - perhaps he just doesn't enjoy the limelight? He was the one that recommended Potter to Ostersunds - so if he wasn't interested in the Wales job we could do not worse than canvas his opinion on a suitable candidate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Jones. I'd sooner see him appointed manager over Thierry Henry - also assistant to Martinez.

[joseywales37]

As I have said in other thread, those not wanting Giggs to have anything to do with Wales are just cutting their nose of to spite their face. OK he should have played in a few more friendlies years ago, I got over that years ago, and not everyone likes what happened in his personal life, but that's his personal life and of course non of the haters have done anything wrong in their lives. Fact is though he is one of the greatest players to pull on a Wales shirt and no doubt one of the reasons we now have Bale and Ramsey and even now with Lawrence pulling on a Wales shirt, just as they are reasons why Woodburn, Ampadu and Brooks now wearing Wales shirt. Personally have no doubt Giggs would work well with current first team or u21 passing on his football knowledge, Cookie even said at talk he gave that Giggs was on different planet to everyone else in that generation, and yet we would let that go because of some friendly attendences that happened years ago ?? really ?

[holmesdaleultra]

I saw giggs play an away friendly against Brazil at white Hart lane.
Was it the only one he played In?

[conwy10]

So reading that Giggs had a reason not to play friendlies because a lot of fans didn't go watch? It's a good job it didn't cross the minds of the other 20 players in the squad or we wouldn't have been able to play. If he becomes Wales manager and we only sell 3,000 tickets for a friendly can he leave it to his assistant?

Giggs was an amazing player but I'll always feel he could have given more for Wales, I'll never change my opinion on that. I personally don't hate Giggs, and I'm sure others don't either, just don't want him anywhere near the Wales job which I think is fair enough.

If I kept phoning in sick for work I'm sure I won't be well thought of.

[joseywales37]

Nov 17, 2017 17:45:10 GMT holmesdaleultra said:

I saw giggs play an away friendly against Brazil at white Hart lane.
Was it the only one he played In?

Nah he played in others there was a few back in the day

[shaunlawthom]

I actually think the shagging other peoples wives part is also valid on this.

In terms of football through the 90s and early 2000s he did absolutely nothing to endear himself to the Welsh public when he should have been the icon of Welsh football, and trying to influence us like Ronaldo does with Portugal, but he simply cared more about United than Wales. He's not the only one in international football, in fact it seems to be a very English thing. I read G. Nevs book and I think Carragher, Scholes and a few others have said it, it simply hurt more when their club team lost than when they lost for their country. I feel this was probably the same for Giggs.

When he was given the armband though and towards the end of his international career he seems to put a bit more effort into Wales and turned up a bit more, he didn't really right the wrongs but went some way to putting in performances for us.

I lost all respect for him as a man though when it came out he was at it with his brothers wife, that is inexcusable and can not be defended, and quite simply I would not want a man like that being in charge of our nation and that football team that filled me with such pride in the Euros and such heart ache at the end of these qualifiers.

 

[biwmares]

He treated this woman terribly as well.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2074527/Imogen-Thomas-clears-Ryan-Giggs-accepts-did-try-blackmail-him.html

[joseywales37]

Nov 17, 2017 18:50:24 GMT shaunlawthom said:

I actually think the shagging other peoples wives part is also valid on this.

In terms of football through the 90s and early 2000s he did absolutely nothing to endear himself to the Welsh public when he should have been the icon of Welsh football, and trying to influence us like Ronaldo does with Portugal, but he simply cared more about United than Wales. He's not the only one in international football, in fact it seems to be a very English thing. I read G. Nevs book and I think Carragher, Scholes and a few others have said it, it simply hurt more when their club team lost than when they lost for their country. I feel this was probably the same for Giggs.

When he was given the armband though and towards the end of his international career he seems to put a bit more effort into Wales and turned up a bit more, he didn't really right the wrongs but went some way to putting in performances for us.

I lost all respect for him as a man though when it came out he was at it with his brothers wife, that is inexcusable and can not be defended, and quite simply I would not want a man like that being in charge of our nation and that football team that filled me with such pride in the Euros and such heart ache at the end of these qualifiers.

 

His personal life has nothing to with it, as not nice as it , and trust me it was wrong. There are some players some players who have done things in private that are pretty shocking John Terry, Wayne Rooney come to mind straight away, and others have done in full view on field Robbie Fowler snorting, Paulo Di Canio Nazi salute, Luis Suarez rascism/biting, Craig Bellamy whacking some girl/hitting teammate with golf club, Ched Evans has been given another chance whether you believe he raped or not, it was still cheating on his missus and has been talk of him maybe getting Wales chance again someday , and yet we are all het up over Giggs having an affair ?. Wouldn't mind betting there a fare few fans who have wronged people in some seriously bad ways, should we ban them ?. The fact is, most don't want him because he didn't play in some friendlies, and the fact that that was years ago makes it more ridiculous. I am in no way condoning what he did to his brother and I hope his brother can find it in his heart to forgive. Bit this should not cloud your judgement of his football brain and what he can teach. The players mentioned above had pretty much no reactions like Giggs has had. And also read some one give reason that he spoke about England in Euros, well that was on a programme where they were playing and he was a pundit, lets not forget Cookie accidentally referring to them as we when being a pundit and also taking an award of that vile lot at Buckingham palace which most us were opposed to

[gwernybwch]

Ryan Giggs and Chris Gunter. Compare and contrast.

Who was a better servant to Welsh football; Ryan Giggs or Carl Robinson? Discuss.

[biwmares]

Nov 17, 2017 15:34:00 GMT dai said:

Ryan, is that you?

Given the breaking news about Coleman leaving its probably someone from the FAW?

[1gwaunview]

I really hope Giggs doesn't get the job.
(1) They'll have to lock up all the Wags during International weeks!! 
(2) Don't want England's cheerleader running my country's team.

[shaunlawthom]

To be clear, it's not the affair that's the issue, I'd say the majority of them are at it. It's who he had the affair with and as a man, and who would be the leading representative of our nation moving forward I simply would not want him in charge

I honestly think he's a disgrace

[gwernybwch]

Nov 17, 2017 17:26:56 GMT joseywales37 said:

As I have said in other thread, those not wanting Giggs to have anything to do with Wales are just cutting their nose of to spite their face. OK he should have played in a few more friendlies years ago, I got over that years ago, and not everyone likes what happened in his personal life, but that's his personal life and of course non of the haters have done anything wrong in their lives. Fact is though he is one of the greatest players to pull on a Wales shirt and no doubt one of the reasons we now have Bale and Ramsey and even now with Lawrence pulling on a Wales shirt, just as they are reasons why Woodburn, Ampadu and Brooks now wearing Wales shirt. Personally have no doubt Giggs would work well with current first team or u21 passing on his football knowledge, Cookie even said at talk he gave that Giggs was on different planet to everyone else in that generation, and yet we would let that go because of some friendly attendences that happened years ago ?? really ?

Eh? The reason that Bale and Ramsey are playing for Wales is because of Giggsy Wiggsy?
And passing on his football knowledge? You have seen him being a ITV football pundit right? You're read the rumours that were doing the rounds as to why he didn't the Swansea job (or any other managerial job for that matter)?

[pendragon]

Nov 17, 2017 17:15:52 GMT alarch said:

If Coleman goes our budget will mean that we won't be able to get a big name, we will have to go for a managerial rookie such as Giggs or a mediocre manager at the end of his career. Alternatively we can make a left-field, high-risk, high-reward appointment. Here's a few suggestions:

Eddie Niedzwiecki: assistant with Mark Hughes at Stoke, and at all previous clubs. Gabbidon and Roberts are positively effusive about him on a recent Elis James podcast. He's also impressed me with his articulacy when doing punditry work on Wales matches in the past. Welsh and experienced - but can he be a number 1?

Graham Potter: This would be a huge gamble - but a tremendously exciting one when you consider the wonders he's worked at Ostersunds: edition.cnn.com/2017/09/28/football/ostersunds-sweden-europa-league-daniel-kindberg-graham-potter/index.html. I'd like to know a bit more about his footballing philosophy, but his man-management credentials are clearly second to none (not even Chris Coleman). It would be worth appointing him just to see Joe Ledley perform in Swan Lake...

Graeme Jones: Current assistant to Martinez, and assistant with Martinez at Swansea, Wigan and Everton. Very highly regarded at Swansea - reflected in the fact that he was approached by Swansea on several occasions when managerial vacancies arose. It's not known why he declined the opportunities - perhaps he just doesn't enjoy the limelight? He was the one that recommended Potter to Ostersunds - so if he wasn't interested in the Wales job we could do not worse than canvas his opinion on a suitable candidate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Jones. I'd sooner see him appointed manager over Thierry Henry - also assistant to Martinez.

Good post. Judging by the breaking news, I hope we take our time with this one and don't just settle immediately for Giggs or Pulis. Not saying they are incapable of doing the job, but with the League Nations next September, this is going to be a very important appointment.

[joseywales37]

Nov 17, 2017 19:59:33 GMT gwernybwch said:

Ryan Giggs and Chris Gunter. Compare and contrast.

Who was a better servant to Welsh football; Ryan Giggs or Carl Robinson? Discuss.

Its irrelevant but Gunter served better, but some more questions are who was the better player and how many levels above are we talking. The REAL question is football superstar v 85 caps

[joseywales37]

Nov 17, 2017 20:11:59 GMT gwernybwch said:

Nov 17, 2017 17:26:56 GMT joseywales37 said:

As I have said in other thread, those not wanting Giggs to have anything to do with Wales are just cutting their nose of to spite their face. OK he should have played in a few more friendlies years ago, I got over that years ago, and not everyone likes what happened in his personal life, but that's his personal life and of course non of the haters have done anything wrong in their lives. Fact is though he is one of the greatest players to pull on a Wales shirt and no doubt one of the reasons we now have Bale and Ramsey and even now with Lawrence pulling on a Wales shirt, just as they are reasons why Woodburn, Ampadu and Brooks now wearing Wales shirt. Personally have no doubt Giggs would work well with current first team or u21 passing on his football knowledge, Cookie even said at talk he gave that Giggs was on different planet to everyone else in that generation, and yet we would let that go because of some friendly attendences that happened years ago ?? really ?

Eh? The reason that Bale and Ramsey are playing for Wales is because of Giggsy Wiggsy?
And passing on his football knowledge? You have seen him being a ITV football pundit right? You're read the rumours that were doing the rounds as to why he didn't the Swansea job (or any other managerial job for that matter)?

They have said their hero was indeed Ryan Giggs, you seriously telling me that someone who has won as much is not going to know anything ?

[1gwaunview]

Eddie Niedzwiecki, a very interesting name to mention. Very experienced coach now.

Giggs came to Fishguard as part of the FAW Trust, doing a training session with youngsters. Couldn't wait to get away after the session.