Giggs

[joseywales37]

Nov 21, 2017 17:27:06 GMT cymroircarn said:

Nov 21, 2017 16:27:34 GMT joseywales37 said:

Was thinking of separate thread for this, but would another country act like us over Giggs ?

I know he was a player but remember how England reacted when Beckham got sent off? We ain’t at those levels yet....

In Argentina they question Messi’s committment.

Perhaps we expect so much of a top player that we are generally more likely to criticise them?

And yet Terry did the stuff he did and was captain, Suarez with his shit, Gerard beat people up in club and became captain, Rooney swearing on tv and cheating on missus, Maradona did loads mad stuff, but is still lauded. That's just a few I can think of.

[fiveattheback]

Nov 21, 2017 17:41:02 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 21, 2017 17:27:06 GMT cymroircarn said:

I know he was a player but remember how England reacted when Beckham got sent off? We ain’t at those levels yet....

In Argentina they question Messi’s committment.

Perhaps we expect so much of a top player that we are generally more likely to criticise them?

And yet Terry did the stuff he did and was captain, Suarez with his shit, Gerard beat people up in club and became captain, Rooney swearing on tv and cheating on missus, Maradona did loads mad stuff, but is still lauded. That's just a few I can think of.

Terry was captain fantastic and had loads of mates in the English press.  Suarez essentially got Uruguay to the WC semis with his handball, Gerrard doesn't really seem to be widely regarded amongst England fans, Rooney is England's record goalscorer and Maradona won Argentina a World Cup, Ryan Giggs is incomparable

[irish]

Nov 19, 2017 17:23:44 GMT jonathandearth said:

No to Giggs.

Retired from Wales in 2007 - kept playing until 2014.

There needs to be a culture that you don't retire from Wales, Wales stops picking you.

[irish]

Giggs has done nothing to warrant any national or top club team management position. He seems to be a more polarizing figure than I thought on here (Roy Keane to us) but irrespective of his achievements as a player, it doesn't justify him getting the Wales job if there's more experienced candidates out there.

[alarch]

Giggs' misdemenours would be very quickly forgotten if he got the job and made a good fist of it. Just as no one (oops..) refers to Coleman's less than savoury past: www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/football-manager-chris-coleman-evicts-4177147

I'm not keen on Giggs at all, but if he gets appointed all that will matter within a couple of months will be Wales' success (or otherwise) and playing style.

[joseywales37]

Nov 21, 2017 19:34:06 GMT fiveattheback said:

Nov 21, 2017 17:41:02 GMT joseywales37 said:

And yet Terry did the stuff he did and was captain, Suarez with his shit, Gerard beat people up in club and became captain, Rooney swearing on tv and cheating on missus, Maradona did loads mad stuff, but is still lauded. That's just a few I can think of.

Terry was captain fantastic and had loads of mates in the English press.  Suarez essentially got Uruguay to the WC semis with his handball, Gerrard doesn't really seem to be widely regarded amongst England fans, Rooney is England's record goalscorer and Maradona won Argentina a World Cup, Ryan Giggs is incomparable

Well I remember the excitement about Ryan Giggs being in our team, and people who deny this is the way it was are not telling the truth. And it doesn't matter what them people achieved, fact is they did things as bad and or worse than Giggs both during and after their playing career. The Giggs bashing is embarrassing and damaging.

[fiveattheback]

Nov 21, 2017 20:03:08 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 21, 2017 19:34:06 GMT fiveattheback said:

Terry was captain fantastic and had loads of mates in the English press.  Suarez essentially got Uruguay to the WC semis with his handball, Gerrard doesn't really seem to be widely regarded amongst England fans, Rooney is England's record goalscorer and Maradona won Argentina a World Cup, Ryan Giggs is incomparable

Well I remember the excitement about Ryan Giggs being in our team, and people who deny this is the way it was are not telling the truth. And it doesn't matter what them people achieved, fact is they did things as bad and or worse than Giggs both during and after their playing career. The Giggs bashing is embarrassing and damaging.

It does matter what they did in their careers, that's why their idolised in their home countries, in the same way Gareth Bale will be idolised here when he retires

[joseywales37]

Nov 21, 2017 20:13:07 GMT fiveattheback said:

Nov 21, 2017 20:03:08 GMT joseywales37 said:

Well I remember the excitement about Ryan Giggs being in our team, and people who deny this is the way it was are not telling the truth. And it doesn't matter what them people achieved, fact is they did things as bad and or worse than Giggs both during and after their playing career. The Giggs bashing is embarrassing and damaging.

It does matter what they did in their careers, that's why their idolised in their home countries, in the same way Gareth Bale will be idolised here when he retires

That's plausible way of looking at things if Wales were in the fortunate enough to get to World Cup/Euros like all the players mentioned, on regular basis and you can't say Giggs wasn't there trying in competitive games. It is seeming that it doesn't matter what ways we can get to prove that the anti Giggs rhetoric is just silly , most don't want to admit they are wrong when come up against an alternate way of looking at things, or some have an anti Man Utd thing going on (a la Veron getting booed at Mill stad)

[cymroircarn]

What kind of reception did Giggs get at games against Swansea?

I remember him being booed against Cardiff

[fiveattheback]

Nov 21, 2017 20:47:23 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 21, 2017 20:13:07 GMT fiveattheback said:

It does matter what they did in their careers, that's why their idolised in their home countries, in the same way Gareth Bale will be idolised here when he retires

That's plausible way of looking at things if Wales were in the fortunate enough to get to World Cup/Euros like all the players mentioned, on regular basis and you can't say Giggs wasn't there trying in competitive games. It is seeming that it doesn't matter what ways we can get to prove that the anti Giggs rhetoric is just silly , most don't want to admit they are wrong when come up against an alternate way of looking at things, or some have an anti Man Utd thing going on (a la Veron getting booed at Mill stad)

He made 64 appearances for his country in a career where he made over 1,000 appearances, how can he demand players to turn up for Wales in a friendly when he couldn't be bothered himself?

If he becomes Wales manager I'll support him

[joseywales37]

Nov 21, 2017 20:55:26 GMT fiveattheback said:

Nov 21, 2017 20:47:23 GMT joseywales37 said:

That's plausible way of looking at things if Wales were in the fortunate enough to get to World Cup/Euros like all the players mentioned, on regular basis and you can't say Giggs wasn't there trying in competitive games. It is seeming that it doesn't matter what ways we can get to prove that the anti Giggs rhetoric is just silly , most don't want to admit they are wrong when come up against an alternate way of looking at things, or some have an anti Man Utd thing going on (a la Veron getting booed at Mill stad)

He made 64 appearances for his country in a career where he made over 1,000 appearances, how can he demand players to turn up for Wales in a friendly when he couldn't be bothered himself?

If he becomes Wales manager I'll support him

I understand what you are saying about friendlies , but I think Fergie had everything to do with it, simply because of the types of player where too many hamstring type injuries , which appears to be happening with Bale being similar types players. And perhaps the fact we don't really play loads of friendlies might help. Glad you would support if he does get in, but I think the amount on social media who jumping on bandwagon will have their way, even though when half them have not thought about it in depth.

[greenscorpio1967]

Nov 21, 2017 19:34:06 GMT fiveattheback said:

Nov 21, 2017 17:41:02 GMT joseywales37 said:

And yet Terry did the stuff he did and was captain, Suarez with his shit, Gerard beat people up in club and became captain, Rooney swearing on tv and cheating on missus, Maradona did loads mad stuff, but is still lauded. That's just a few I can think of.

Terry was captain fantastic and had loads of mates in the English press.  Suarez essentially got Uruguay to the WC semis with his handball, Gerrard doesn't really seem to be widely regarded amongst England fans, Rooney is England's record goalscorer and Maradona won Argentina a World Cup, Ryan Giggs is incomparable

yes very true but you on about player s and maybe captains,the role as a manager you could say it abit different

[fiveattheback]

Nov 21, 2017 21:37:31 GMT greenscorpio1967 said:

Nov 21, 2017 19:34:06 GMT fiveattheback said:

Terry was captain fantastic and had loads of mates in the English press.  Suarez essentially got Uruguay to the WC semis with his handball, Gerrard doesn't really seem to be widely regarded amongst England fans, Rooney is England's record goalscorer and Maradona won Argentina a World Cup, Ryan Giggs is incomparable

yes very true but you on about player s and maybe captains,the role as a manager you could say it abit different

I was giving reasons why they're seen in a different light to Giggs in their home countries

[greenscorpio1967]

yes true maradonna would always be seen as a god lol no matter what he did,him and suarez are from a different world. sorry think I was responding to joseywales 37 comments not yours

[Deleted]

Key question - If Giggs is seen by the FAW as the most skilled man for the job, then surely he should get it right? At that point his playing career for Wales loses relevance right?

I'm not saying the baggage is irrelevant, but it cannot be a deciding factor can it? Or should it?

[greenscorpio1967]

seeing the like s of the candidates regarding their antics on the field or off, don't you think that a measure of their character ,don't get me wrong abit of passion I feel is positive.been a manager aswell as having tactical nous is been able to handle different characters and man mangement

[joseywales37]

Nov 21, 2017 22:09:28 GMT greenscorpio1967 said:

yes true maradonna would always be seen as a god lol no matter what he did,him and suarez are from a different world. sorry think I was responding to joseywales 37 comments not yours

You got to be honest, somethings that others have done is far worse as well. And them countries have far more choices than us as well and they still give these people second chances.

[greenscorpio1967]

Nov 21, 2017 22:35:14 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 21, 2017 22:09:28 GMT greenscorpio1967 said:

yes true maradonna would always be seen as a god lol no matter what he did,him and suarez are from a different world. sorry think I was responding to joseywales 37 comments not yours

You got to be honest, somethings that others have done is far worse as well. And them countries have far more choices than us as well and they still give these people second chances.

different cultures Uruguay don't even criticised suarez for his  biting antics lol, Giggs was a brilliant footballer obviously, and great a ambassador for football and  for his longevity in the game , but I don't think he got the presence ,charisma and  the intelligence to be a  coach of a top club or country. This present side probably has nt got the strong personalities of yesteryear it interesting how he would have dealt with them. Why has nt he been in a coaching role since his man u position

[greenscorpio1967]

all the kids look upto to and think wow its ryan giggs how long is that going to last

[manulike]

Nov 21, 2017 22:51:08 GMT greenscorpio1967 said:

all the kids look upto to and think wow its ryan giggs how long is that going to last

I can see the Chinese media hysterics in March...
Dragon Dancers in the street and teenagers blocking the hotel lobby ;-)

[joseywales37]

Nov 21, 2017 22:48:04 GMT greenscorpio1967 said:

Nov 21, 2017 22:35:14 GMT joseywales37 said:

You got to be honest, somethings that others have done is far worse as well. And them countries have far more choices than us as well and they still give these people second chances.

different cultures Uruguay don't even criticised suarez for his  biting antics lol, Giggs was a brilliant footballer obviously, and great a ambassador for football and  for his longevity in the game , but I don't think he got the presence ,charisma and  the intelligence to be a  coach of a top club or country. This present side probably has nt got the strong personalities of yesteryear it interesting how he would have dealt with them. Why has nt he been in a coaching role since his man u position

From what I hear, it has only been Swansea so far and all fairness Swansea have got a few things wrong lately, so I don't even consider that, We can only really go from what Fergie and Van Gaal opinion is, wouldn't surprise me to see Giggs end up as Van Gaal assistant again if he don't get Wales job. I know they tried to talk him into staying when Mourinho took over, but looks like he wanted time out. But maybe FAW may have to consider Pages place soon and I would be more than happy if he got that if not first team. I have read some stuff regarding how nerves got to him when he initially took over as Man Utd manager which I suspect is the reason he went as an assistant to Van Gaal. He was certainly the man on the touchline in Van Gaal era, so the presence thing might just be there, personality I have watched somethings where he quite quietly spoken and others where he making jokes etc, but then Sparky wasn't loud in interview and sometimes seemed a bit miserable, met Sparky once and being my fav player ever, left disappointed at the miserable sod lol, still love sparky though.

[Deleted]

Another couple of questions here...

1. Did friendlies have an impact on FIFA world rankings and therefore qualifying seedings back in the days when Giggs wasn't showing up? So were friendlies actually meaningless on a competitive / major tournament basis?

2. Didn't Giggs have a recurring issue with a hamstring problem through his 20's? Akin to Bale's calf problem which will see him miss many more friendlies for us in the future I would imagine.

I'm starting to ask questions because I've always fallen into the critical camp on Giggs. I'm now wondering if we might be being over critical of him and perhaps spiting ourselves IF the appointing committee see him as the best contender.

Perhaps it's an appointment that won't please the fans but will the players? I know which is the most important in that dichotomy. And would it not be quite a redemption story if "one of the greatest players to not play in a major tournament" finally got there? Would we still be bothered about the friendlies if that happened?

Just asking the tricky questions because I've realised I wasn't even asking them before in my own head.

[greenscorpio1967]

Nov 22, 2017 0:09:40 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 21, 2017 22:48:04 GMT greenscorpio1967 said:

different cultures Uruguay don't even criticised suarez for his  biting antics lol, Giggs was a brilliant footballer obviously, and great a ambassador for football and  for his longevity in the game , but I don't think he got the presence ,charisma and  the intelligence to be a  coach of a top club or country. This present side probably has nt got the strong personalities of yesteryear it interesting how he would have dealt with them. Why has nt he been in a coaching role since his man u position

From what I hear, it has only been Swansea so far and all fairness Swansea have got a few things wrong lately, so I don't even consider that, We can only really go from what Fergie and Van Gaal opinion is, wouldn't surprise me to see Giggs end up as Van Gaal assistant again if he don't get Wales job. I know they tried to talk him into staying when Mourinho took over, but looks like he wanted time out. But maybe FAW may have to consider Pages place soon and I would be more than happy if he got that if not first team. I have read some stuff regarding how nerves got to him when he initially took over as Man Utd manager which I suspect is the reason he went as an assistant to Van Gaal. He was certainly the man on the touchline in Van Gaal era, so the presence thing might just be there, personality I have watched somethings where he quite quietly spoken and others where he making jokes etc, but then Sparky wasn't loud in interview and sometimes seemed a bit miserable, met Sparky once and being my fav player ever, left disappointed at the miserable sod lol, still love sparky though.

well everybody character or persona obviously different you get respect off others for your integrity, fairness ,empathy and obviously knowledge and ability not necessarily been a hard case or six foot six, maybe presence not just in size 

[greenscorpio1967]

its all irrelevant anyhow cos id be surprised if he appointed job now, cos the odds have drifted from 4/6 to 12/1 bet victor, a swing that far !!!!

[joseywales37]

Nov 22, 2017 0:16:57 GMT @otto said:

Another couple of questions here...

1. Did friendlies have an impact on FIFA world rankings and therefore qualifying seedings back in the days when Giggs wasn't showing up? So were friendlies actually meaningless on a competitive / major tournament basis?

2. Didn't Giggs have a recurring issue with a hamstring problem through his 20's? Akin to Bale's calf problem which will see him miss many more friendlies for us in the future I would imagine.

I'm starting to ask questions because I've always fallen into the critical camp on Giggs. I'm now wondering if we might be being over critical of him and perhaps spiting ourselves IF the appointing committee see him as the best contender.

Perhaps it's an appointment that won't please the fans but will the players? I know which is the most important in that dichotomy. And would it not be quite a redemption story if "one of the greatest players to not play in a major tournament" finally got there? Would we still be bothered about the friendlies if that happened?

Just asking the tricky questions because I've realised I wasn't even asking them before in my own head.

Fair play, very honest you to say that you might of not thought about it from an alternative way of looking at it. Whether Giggs gets job or not , the hatred needs to calm down, that's my main issue. Good to see that some people willing to listen to both sides of debate and not just blindly hate.

[greenscorpio1967]

Good points , hatred strong lol just wondering if he a leader of men,maybe he prove the doubters wrong one day good luck to if he dose

[cymruramdcfc]

Some one pointed out a lack of friendlies when CC was in charge. That stopped absentees from these games. Would bale Ramsey have turned up and played if we had more friendlies, considering bales latest injuries I could imagine Madrid pulling him out.
He stopped playing for Wales to keep his career going for Manu. Alot do.

Some of the anti giggs is embarrassing and outside of Wales must be shocked of way we treat our world class player of the past.

I keep changing mind on who I believe can be best next manager but giggs seems to tick most boxes but for me the choice osian chooses has to be high up there. Like I said I'm split still.

[vandenhauwe]

Some of the pro giggs stuff is embarrassing people trying to re-write history!!

[marsvolta]

I think threads like this and the media are making the impression that he's universally hated when the reality is that a lot simply don't think he is the right man and don't hate him as such.

It's just headlines like 'Ryan Giggs hate' and 'why do Welsh fans hate Ryan Giggs' is making Welsh fans feel that they either have to back him or hate him

[vandenhauwe]

Totally agree!I don't hate him just don't want him anywhere near the wales job.