Giggs

[fiveattheback]

Nov 22, 2017 8:46:36 GMT marsvolta said:

I think threads like this and the media are making the impression that he's universally hated when the reality is that a lot simply don't think he is the right man and don't hate him as such.

It's just headlines like 'Ryan Giggs hate' and 'why do Welsh fans hate Ryan Giggs' is making Welsh fans feel that they either have to back him or hate him

Exactly, I wouldn't say he's "hated", he just isn't a lot of people's first choice

[phillywelsh83]

Oh im not sure, every time i mention Giggs, there is plenty of hatred from board members!

[pendragon]

Nov 21, 2017 17:30:05 GMT 1282 said:

no way giggs do you really want a man who shagged his brothers partner running Wales i know a personal life shouldnt come into the decision but that really is the lowest you can go aswell as him not really caring about wales

Is it a whole lot worse than Coleman's actions when he ALLEGEDLY cheated on his first wife?

I don't know the details, nor do I care to, but I don't think past behaviour should be the sole arbiter of whether or not someone gets the job and I certainly don't think that anyone should be appointed on any grounds of sentimentality.

I'm worried that some of the negative press surrounding Giggs might prejudice the final outcome. Whoever gets it should be the best possible candidate among the (limited) pool available. If that means Pulis, Robinson or Giggs, then so be it.

[greenscorpio1967]

Nov 22, 2017 5:09:37 GMT cymruramdcfc said:

Some one pointed out a lack of friendlies when CC was in charge. That stopped absentees from these games. Would bale Ramsey have turned up and played if we had more friendlies, considering bales latest injuries I could imagine Madrid pulling him out.
He stopped playing for Wales to keep his career going for Manu. Alot do.

Some of the anti giggs is embarrassing and outside of Wales must be shocked of way we treat our world class player of the past.

I keep changing mind on who I believe can be best next manager but giggs seems to tick most boxes but for me the choice osian chooses has to be high up there. Like I said I'm split still.

even though I think rankings based on friendlies too , the relevance of friendlies seems different to yesteryear and club football pays their wages and their bread and butter

[bluephill]

I’ve never had a strong opinion on Giggs one way or the other. I just don’t feel he has the personality to be a manager. And he always looks like he’s pre occupied with something, like he’s worried he might have left the iron on.

[joseywales37]

Nov 22, 2017 5:09:37 GMT cymruramdcfc said:

Some one pointed out a lack of friendlies when CC was in charge. That stopped absentees from these games. Would bale Ramsey have turned up and played if we had more friendlies, considering bales latest injuries I could imagine Madrid pulling him out.
He stopped playing for Wales to keep his career going for Manu. Alot do.

Some of the anti giggs is embarrassing and outside of Wales must be shocked of way we treat our world class player of the past.

I keep changing mind on who I believe can be best next manager but giggs seems to tick most boxes but for me the choice osian chooses has to be high up there. Like I said I'm split still.

Only thing about Osian is I see him as the most important person in Welsh football tbh in the job he is actually in. He not just normal assistant, he plays pivotal role in development of youngsters at different age groups, he probs biggest reason why dual qualifieds have chosen us, when they could so easily have chosen them and gone to World cup, and he also brings a feeling of total Welshness and togetherstronger ethos to the squad, whoever is in, he did so under Speed and Cookie. Totally agree on the Giggs thing though, ridiculous bandwagoning going on on Facebook and Twitter etc, could be very damaging, makes us a laughing stock imo, because little ol Wales always having to battle to be up there punching above our weight amongst the big boys, but is willing to cut nose off to spite face along the way.  Like a a lightweight fighter keeping up with heavyweights, but decides to cut his own arm off along the way lol.

[joseywales37]

Nov 22, 2017 7:06:34 GMT vandenhauwe said:

Some of the pro giggs stuff is embarrassing people trying to re-write history!!

Nah the pro Giggs stuff is stop us looking stupid as fans, by hating on a former player for ridiculous reasons that can have alternative arguments that make people see that the way they being is unreasonable, firstly in the hope that the FAW don't overlook him and treat him as fair and square candidate, and secondly, should he not get the job because it went to what the FAW believe is the better man for the job, just stops the hideous witch hunt on social media. Apart from Pulis and maybe Robinson, who are probably more known managerially, Giggs has as much going managerially as pretty much all the others mentioned, potentially more with the mentors he has had. And as a historical player, only Henry stands up out of the candidates , Bellamy at a push, that our present players like Bale, Ramsey, Lawrence, Woodburn, Ampadu and Brooks could seriously learn off and if asked about possibility of having him as mentor, can't see them turning that down.

[vandenhauwe]

So if you don't like want giggs you're stupid?!lot of us are stupid then.He splits opinions and some of the hate is ott but so is the opinion that he's some kind of welsh legend he's a utd legend 100% but a welsh legend absolutely not!!!

[welshiron]

I don't hate |Giggs but have little respect for him.

I believe he is a selfish man who will always puthimself first

Imagine he has a decent start winning the china cup and Utd part company with Mouriniho, do you think he would stay put if offered that job. This would throw us back again

He always put his club career first and will do so as a manager

He had no respect for his wife or brother basically I want it I can have it attitude, sod everyone else

Also no respect for the feelings of welsh fans, playing for GB years after giving up on our country

ON top of that he has no managerial experience to speak of so I can't see the positives (other than marketing)

[pendragon]

Nov 24, 2017 4:38:26 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 22, 2017 5:09:37 GMT cymruramdcfc said:

Some one pointed out a lack of friendlies when CC was in charge. That stopped absentees from these games. Would bale Ramsey have turned up and played if we had more friendlies, considering bales latest injuries I could imagine Madrid pulling him out.
He stopped playing for Wales to keep his career going for Manu. Alot do.

Some of the anti giggs is embarrassing and outside of Wales must be shocked of way we treat our world class player of the past.

I keep changing mind on who I believe can be best next manager but giggs seems to tick most boxes but for me the choice osian chooses has to be high up there. Like I said I'm split still.

Only thing about Osian is I see him as the most important person in Welsh football tbh in the job he is actually in. He not just normal assistant, he plays pivotal role in development of youngsters at different age groups, he probs biggest reason why dual qualifieds have chosen us, when they could so easily have chosen them and gone to World cup, and he also brings a feeling of total Welshness and togetherstronger ethos to the squad, whoever is in, he did so under Speed and Cookie.

Totally agree. If whoever comes in can work with Osian, then all the better. Maybe something else to consider when deciding who to appoint!

[matty]

Nov 24, 2017 10:50:29 GMT welshiron said:

I don't hate |Giggs but have little respect for him.

I believe he is a selfish man who will always puthimself first

Imagine he has a decent start winning the china cup and Utd part company with Mouriniho, do you think he would stay put if offered that job. This would throw us back again

He always put his club career first and will do so as a manager

He had no respect for his wife or brother basically I want it I can have it attitude, sod everyone else

Also no respect for the feelings of welsh fans, playing for GB years after giving up on our country

ON top of that he has no managerial experience to speak of so I can't see the positives (other than marketing)

Let's be fair - no one would stay as Welsh manager if the Man Utd job was offered. We shouldn't not appoint him because he could be considered a candidate for a top club job - there are other reasons to not appoint him and the experience issue is top of the list.
Saying all that if Osian says he wants Giggs then I'm happy with that.

[1gwaunview]

It's difficult for Osian to favour anyone at this time as he'll probably have to work with whoever gets the job. I think he's being diplomatic at the moment, he's complimented Giggs, Carl Robinson in the past so don't be surprised if Bellamy and Henry get a mention too if asked.

[joseywales37]

Nov 24, 2017 8:11:29 GMT vandenhauwe said:

So if you don't like want giggs you're stupid?!lot of us are stupid then.He splits opinions and some of the hate is ott but so is the opinion that he's some kind of welsh legend he's a utd legend 100% but a welsh legend absolutely not!!!

The witch hunt is stupid, damaging and just plain embarrassing for those who don't want him for the reasons most are giving like missing friendlies which was years ago and we all know there is a very high possibility the decision wasn't his, sleeping with bros misses, not nice but also nothing to do with us or football knowledge, and also there are people who are talking about this who have done worse or know someone who has, not to mention the other footballers who have done as bad or worse and are still lauded for their football. If there is a fair and square reason for him not to have an equal chance as everyone else. And to me Giggs is Welsh legend, he chose Wales when he could have chosen another (believe it or not the African team he could've played for , probably more chance of World cup qualifying than us ), retired 1 year earlier than Rush and Hughes and made just 8 appearances less. He might have not taken part in friendlies over a nine year period, but he did not go 9 years without playing for Wales. If you don't want Giggs because you believe there a better candidate, then fair enough, but if the reason is anything to do with the above reasons come on, really ?

[vandenhauwe]

I believe there's two candidates who are much better qualified than giggs Carl Robinson and pulis both managed club sides both worked their way up.As for giggs retiring a year earlier than rush and hughes both true but then giggs came out of retirement to play for team G* at the Olympics!!Also if giggs loves wales so much why did he do his coaching badges with the english fa?!before you say it's because of where he lives henry,Desailly,Jens lehmann,arteta,sherwood etc don't live in wales but chose to do their coaching badges here!!!

[blackfish]

Nov 24, 2017 13:53:18 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 24, 2017 8:11:29 GMT vandenhauwe said:

So if you don't like want giggs you're stupid?!lot of us are stupid then.He splits opinions and some of the hate is ott but so is the opinion that he's some kind of welsh legend he's a utd legend 100% but a welsh legend absolutely not!!!

The witch hunt is stupid, damaging and just plain embarrassing for those who don't want him for the reasons most are giving like missing friendlies which was years ago and we all know there is a very high possibility the decision wasn't his, sleeping with bros misses, not nice but also nothing to do with us or football knowledge, and also there are people who are talking about this who have done worse or know someone who has, not to mention the other footballers who have done as bad or worse and are still lauded for their football. If there is a fair and square reason for him not to have an equal chance as everyone else. And to me Giggs is Welsh legend, he chose Wales when he could have chosen another (believe it or not the African team he could've played for , probably more chance of World cup qualifying than us ), retired 1 year earlier than Rush and Hughes and made just 8 appearances less. He might have not taken part in friendlies over a nine year period, but he did not go 9 years without playing for Wales. If you don't want Giggs because you believe there a better candidate, then fair enough, but if the reason is anything to do with the above reasons come on, really ?

The main reason I don't want Giggs is because is because he doesn't seem particularly intelligent football-wise. His analysis of games when doing punditry is very much say what you see. He never says anything particularly insightful. Add to that the fact that he has no experience and that Mourinho couldn't wait to get rid of him and he seems like a terrible candidate. 

The fact that he didn't play in any friendlies for 9 years is relevant. How can he get players to turn up for friendlies when he didn't? If he complained about our players pulling out the squad for a friendly, he'd rightly be labelled a hypocrite. 64 international appearances in a career of over 1000 first team games is shocking. Your point about him choosing Wales over Sierra Leone is so ridiculous, I'm starting to suspect you're a troll.

His personal life, while not as important as the factors above, is not totally irrelevant as you seem to think. If you found out your new boss had an 8 year affair with his brother's wife which continued even when she was pregnant, I doubt you'd have much respect for him. What he did is far worse than Terry, Gerrard etc who you have mentioned earlier in the thread. He's quite clearly a very self-centered person with very little empathy. He should not be one of our country's most prominent ambassadors.

[pendragon]

Nov 24, 2017 13:53:18 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 24, 2017 8:11:29 GMT vandenhauwe said:

So if you don't like want giggs you're stupid?!lot of us are stupid then.He splits opinions and some of the hate is ott but so is the opinion that he's some kind of welsh legend he's a utd legend 100% but a welsh legend absolutely not!!!

The witch hunt is stupid, damaging and just plain embarrassing for those who don't want him for the reasons most are giving like missing friendlies which was years ago and we all know there is a very high possibility the decision wasn't his, sleeping with bros misses, not nice but also nothing to do with us or football knowledge, and also there are people who are talking about this who have done worse or know someone who has, not to mention the other footballers who have done as bad or worse and are still lauded for their football. If there is a fair and square reason for him not to have an equal chance as everyone else. And to me Giggs is Welsh legend, he chose Wales when he could have chosen another (believe it or not the African team he could've played for , probably more chance of World cup qualifying than us ), retired 1 year earlier than Rush and Hughes and made just 8 appearances less. He might have not taken part in friendlies over a nine year period, but he did not go 9 years without playing for Wales. If you don't want Giggs because you believe there a better candidate, then fair enough, but if the reason is anything to do with the above reasons come on, really ?

Good points. Based on what you have said, Cristiano Ronaldo would not be a Portuguese legend (he's been accused of some bad stuff in the past and some people have a problem with his primadonna persona but there's no denying he is a legend in his sport). Similarly, Chris Coleman might not have been appointed based on past indiscretions.. Like I said earlier, I'm fearful that petty dislike could prejudice the final outcome. We are a fickle bunch. Coleman was not an altogether popular choice when first appointed. Football associations don't appoint "nice guys", there's reality television for that!

[vandenhauwe]

African team he could've played for was sierra leone so no not really more chance to qualify with them...

[welwyn]

Nov 24, 2017 14:30:10 GMT vandenhauwe said:

I believe there's two candidates who are much better qualified than giggs Carl Robinson and pulis both managed club sides both worked their way up.As for giggs retiring a year earlier than rush and hughes both true but then giggs came out of retirement to play for team G* at the Olympics!!Also if giggs loves wales so much why did he do his coaching badges with the english fa?!before you say it's because of where he lives henry,Desailly,Jens lehmann,arteta,sherwood etc don't live in wales but chose to do their coaching badges here!!!

I'm hardly pro-Giggs but at least get your facts right. Giggs did some of his badges with us and some with them.

[vandenhauwe]

I bow to your superior knowledge either way if he's that pro-wales why do any with the english fa.

[joseywales37]

Nov 24, 2017 14:38:57 GMT blackfish said:

Nov 24, 2017 13:53:18 GMT joseywales37 said:

The witch hunt is stupid, damaging and just plain embarrassing for those who don't want him for the reasons most are giving like missing friendlies which was years ago and we all know there is a very high possibility the decision wasn't his, sleeping with bros misses, not nice but also nothing to do with us or football knowledge, and also there are people who are talking about this who have done worse or know someone who has, not to mention the other footballers who have done as bad or worse and are still lauded for their football. If there is a fair and square reason for him not to have an equal chance as everyone else. And to me Giggs is Welsh legend, he chose Wales when he could have chosen another (believe it or not the African team he could've played for , probably more chance of World cup qualifying than us ), retired 1 year earlier than Rush and Hughes and made just 8 appearances less. He might have not taken part in friendlies over a nine year period, but he did not go 9 years without playing for Wales. If you don't want Giggs because you believe there a better candidate, then fair enough, but if the reason is anything to do with the above reasons come on, really ?

The main reason I don't want Giggs is because is because he doesn't seem particularly intelligent football-wise. His analysis of games when doing punditry is very much say what you see. He never says anything particularly insightful. Add to that the fact that he has no experience and that Mourinho couldn't wait to get rid of him and he seems like a terrible candidate. 

The fact that he didn't play in any friendlies for 9 years is relevant. How can he get players to turn up for friendlies when he didn't? If he complained about our players pulling out the squad for a friendly, he'd rightly be labelled a hypocrite. 64 international appearances in a career of over 1000 first team games is shocking. Your point about him choosing Wales over Sierra Leone is so ridiculous, I'm starting to suspect you're a troll.

His personal life, while not as important as the factors above, is not totally irrelevant as you seem to think. If you found out your new boss had an 8 year affair with his brother's wife which continued even when she was pregnant, I doubt you'd have much respect for him. What he did is far worse than Terry, Gerrard etc who you have mentioned earlier in the thread. He's quite clearly a very self-centered person with very little empathy. He should not be one of our country's most prominent ambassadors.

Firstly I am not a troll, thanks for , nice of you. I disagree that Mourinho didn't want him around when he took over when I have read many tines that he did. And if you are basing what his knowledge of football is off a couple pundit appearances that's a pity, Gary Neville got job based on it and look how that went.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for friendlies, you say its relevant after all these years, fair enough I understand that way of looking at it, but you have not said about how you know for defo that it was all down to him and also with what is Bale with injuries right now and being similar types of players, what in your opinion then is the best thing to do ? (I have been going to Wales games since early eighties and during Giggs era wanted to see him play every game, gutted when happened but understand more now and got over it).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You think African teams have as tough time qualifying as Wales have over years ?, European groups are notoriously harder to qualify from than the other continents. If Giggs was to be in them qualifiers he would probs have been seen as the best player.                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then your assessment of what Giggs did to his brother, you make it sound like he murdered someone. Maradona with his drugsm prostitutes allegations of rape, all whilst still playing, Terry with his sleeping with teammates girlfriends, racism , Suarez with his racism, biting, cheating and that's just a few and that's just footballers, that's without other people in public eye and certainly without probably many members of public who have probably done much worse. I know of people who done far far worse and then they pipe up and say about Giggs lol.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The way you wrote that post felt a bit pissy towards me tbh, as I have said, there are a few candidates that I like sound of, like Henry, Bellamy and certainly Giggs, and am not adverse to Hartson and Pulis at a push. My main thing is this ridiculous hatred needs to calm down.

[phillywelsh83]

Nov 24, 2017 10:50:29 GMT welshiron said:

I don't hate |Giggs but have little respect for him.

I believe he is a selfish man who will always puthimself first

Imagine he has a decent start winning the china cup and Utd part company with Mouriniho, do you think he would stay put if offered that job. This would throw us back again

He always put his club career first and will do so as a manager

He had no respect for his wife or brother basically I want it I can have it attitude, sod everyone else

Also no respect for the feelings of welsh fans, playing for GB years after giving up on our country

ON top of that he has no managerial experience to speak of so I can't see the positives (other than marketing)

As someone else said who is gonna turn down the United job if your managing Wales. If Coleman could have gone after Euros he was on his bike. Lets not be silly and judgmental just because its Giggs. 

[blackfish]

Nov 24, 2017 15:49:58 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 24, 2017 14:38:57 GMT blackfish said:

The main reason I don't want Giggs is because is because he doesn't seem particularly intelligent football-wise. His analysis of games when doing punditry is very much say what you see. He never says anything particularly insightful. Add to that the fact that he has no experience and that Mourinho couldn't wait to get rid of him and he seems like a terrible candidate. 

The fact that he didn't play in any friendlies for 9 years is relevant. How can he get players to turn up for friendlies when he didn't? If he complained about our players pulling out the squad for a friendly, he'd rightly be labelled a hypocrite. 64 international appearances in a career of over 1000 first team games is shocking. Your point about him choosing Wales over Sierra Leone is so ridiculous, I'm starting to suspect you're a troll.

His personal life, while not as important as the factors above, is not totally irrelevant as you seem to think. If you found out your new boss had an 8 year affair with his brother's wife which continued even when she was pregnant, I doubt you'd have much respect for him. What he did is far worse than Terry, Gerrard etc who you have mentioned earlier in the thread. He's quite clearly a very self-centered person with very little empathy. He should not be one of our country's most prominent ambassadors.

Firstly I am not a troll, thanks for , nice of you. I disagree that Mourinho didn't want him around when he took over when I have read many tines that he did. And if you are basing what his knowledge of football is off a couple pundit appearances that's a pity, Gary Neville got job based on it and look how that went.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for friendlies, you say its relevant after all these years, fair enough I understand that way of looking at it, but you have not said about how you know for defo that it was all down to him and also with what is Bale with injuries right now and being similar types of players, what in your opinion then is the best thing to do ? (I have been going to Wales games since early eighties and during Giggs era wanted to see him play every game, gutted when happened but understand more now and got over it).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You think African teams have as tough time qualifying as Wales have over years ?, European groups are notoriously harder to qualify from than the other continents. If Giggs was to be in them qualifiers he would probs have been seen as the best player.                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then your assessment of what Giggs did to his brother, you make it sound like he murdered someone. Maradona with his drugsm prostitutes allegations of rape, all whilst still playing, Terry with his sleeping with teammates girlfriends, racism , Suarez with his racism, biting, cheating and that's just a few and that's just footballers, that's without other people in public eye and certainly without probably many members of public who have probably done much worse. I know of people who done far far worse and then they pipe up and say about Giggs lol.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The way you wrote that post felt a bit pissy towards me tbh, as I have said, there are a few candidates that I like sound of, like Henry, Bellamy and certainly Giggs, and am not adverse to Hartson and Pulis at a push. My main thing is this ridiculous hatred needs to calm down.

I didn't say that being a good pundit makes you a good manager. Stop putting words in my mouth. The point I made was that being a bad pundit is usually an indicator of relatively poor football knowledge.

With regards to friendlies, I've no doubt that Ferguson was in his ear telling him not to go but I'd like to think that I would bust a gut to play for Wales at every opportunity. Pulling on that red jersey should be an honour every time. The ultimate decision to pull out of countless squads was his. I don't really understand what you're asking me about Bale so I can't answer, sorry.

I didn't say that African teams have as tough a time in qualifying campaigns as Wales. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I stated that your point about him choosing Wales over Sierra Leone is ridiculous as he qualified through a grandparent and as far as I'm aware, never even visited the country when he was growing up (correct me if I'm wrong).

My assessment of what Giggs did to his brother was fair. You're the one who seems to think it's fine and everyone should just forget about it. I didn't defend the actions of other players as you seem to suggest but sleeping with your mate's ex as Terry did (I'm pretty sure they were no longer together but again, correct me if I'm wrong) is not as bad as an 8 year affair with your brother's wife. For the record, I wouldn't want Terry as Welsh manager either.

My reply to you wasn't meant to sound "pissy" so apologies if it came across that way. I genuinely thought you were taking the mick when you made the point about Sierra Leone.

EDIT: I certainly don't hate Ryan Giggs. Hate is a very strong word I reserve for the likes of Pol Pot, Margaret Thatcher and James Corden.

[fiveattheback]

Nov 24, 2017 13:53:18 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 24, 2017 8:11:29 GMT vandenhauwe said:

So if you don't like want giggs you're stupid?!lot of us are stupid then.He splits opinions and some of the hate is ott but so is the opinion that he's some kind of welsh legend he's a utd legend 100% but a welsh legend absolutely not!!!

The witch hunt is stupid, damaging and just plain embarrassing for those who don't want him for the reasons most are giving like missing friendlies which was years ago and we all know there is a very high possibility the decision wasn't his, sleeping with bros misses, not nice but also nothing to do with us or football knowledge, and also there are people who are talking about this who have done worse or know someone who has, not to mention the other footballers who have done as bad or worse and are still lauded for their football. If there is a fair and square reason for him not to have an equal chance as everyone else. And to me Giggs is Welsh legend, he chose Wales when he could have chosen another (believe it or not the African team he could've played for , probably more chance of World cup qualifying than us ), retired 1 year earlier than Rush and Hughes and made just 8 appearances less. He might have not taken part in friendlies over a nine year period, but he did not go 9 years without playing for Wales. If you don't want Giggs because you believe there a better candidate, then fair enough, but if the reason is anything to do with the above reasons come on, really ?

Not wanting Giggs as manager is hardly a witch hunt

There is no way Ryan Giggs is a Welsh legend, he is definitely a Manchester United legend.  The other country he qualified for were Sierra Leone, there is no chance he'd have gotten to a WC with them

Ian Rush is our leading goalscorer and both he and Mark Hughes played in eras with fewer international games

I don't want Giggs because I don't think he's the best candidate based on what I've seen of his punditry and the fact he's been touting himself for possible job and is now a Director of Football in Vietnam, however you can't deny all of these factors are still relevant

[iot]

Nov 24, 2017 15:49:58 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 24, 2017 14:38:57 GMT blackfish said:

The main reason I don't want Giggs is because is because he doesn't seem particularly intelligent football-wise. His analysis of games when doing punditry is very much say what you see. He never says anything particularly insightful. Add to that the fact that he has no experience and that Mourinho couldn't wait to get rid of him and he seems like a terrible candidate. 

The fact that he didn't play in any friendlies for 9 years is relevant. How can he get players to turn up for friendlies when he didn't? If he complained about our players pulling out the squad for a friendly, he'd rightly be labelled a hypocrite. 64 international appearances in a career of over 1000 first team games is shocking. Your point about him choosing Wales over Sierra Leone is so ridiculous, I'm starting to suspect you're a troll.

His personal life, while not as important as the factors above, is not totally irrelevant as you seem to think. If you found out your new boss had an 8 year affair with his brother's wife which continued even when she was pregnant, I doubt you'd have much respect for him. What he did is far worse than Terry, Gerrard etc who you have mentioned earlier in the thread. He's quite clearly a very self-centered person with very little empathy. He should not be one of our country's most prominent ambassadors.

Firstly I am not a troll, thanks for , nice of you. I disagree that Mourinho didn't want him around when he took over when I have read many tines that he did. And if you are basing what his knowledge of football is off a couple pundit appearances that's a pity, Gary Neville got job based on it and look how that went.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for friendlies, you say its relevant after all these years, fair enough I understand that way of looking at it, but you have not said about how you know for defo that it was all down to him and also with what is Bale with injuries right now and being similar types of players, what in your opinion then is the best thing to do ? (I have been going to Wales games since early eighties and during Giggs era wanted to see him play every game, gutted when happened but understand more now and got over it).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You think African teams have as tough time qualifying as Wales have over years ?, European groups are notoriously harder to qualify from than the other continents. If Giggs was to be in them qualifiers he would probs have been seen as the best player.                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then your assessment of what Giggs did to his brother, you make it sound like he murdered someone. Maradona with his drugsm prostitutes allegations of rape, all whilst still playing, Terry with his sleeping with teammates girlfriends, racism , Suarez with his racism, biting, cheating and that's just a few and that's just footballers, that's without other people in public eye and certainly without probably many members of public who have probably done much worse. I know of people who done far far worse and then they pipe up and say about Giggs lol.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The way you wrote that post felt a bit pissy towards me tbh, as I have said, there are a few candidates that I like sound of, like Henry, Bellamy and certainly Giggs, and am not adverse to Hartson and Pulis at a push. My main thing is this ridiculous hatred needs to calm down.

Sierra Leone have never qualified for the WC so based on that record they're even less likely to qualify than we are!

I can't see how you could say missing 9 years of friendlies is irrelevant and slightly pathetic how you imply Giggs had no say in the matter - Ferguson might have put pressure on him but he's his own man! 

[joseywales37]

Nov 24, 2017 16:17:27 GMT blackfish said:

Nov 24, 2017 15:49:58 GMT joseywales37 said:

Firstly I am not a troll, thanks for , nice of you. I disagree that Mourinho didn't want him around when he took over when I have read many tines that he did. And if you are basing what his knowledge of football is off a couple pundit appearances that's a pity, Gary Neville got job based on it and look how that went.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for friendlies, you say its relevant after all these years, fair enough I understand that way of looking at it, but you have not said about how you know for defo that it was all down to him and also with what is Bale with injuries right now and being similar types of players, what in your opinion then is the best thing to do ? (I have been going to Wales games since early eighties and during Giggs era wanted to see him play every game, gutted when happened but understand more now and got over it).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You think African teams have as tough time qualifying as Wales have over years ?, European groups are notoriously harder to qualify from than the other continents. If Giggs was to be in them qualifiers he would probs have been seen as the best player.                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then your assessment of what Giggs did to his brother, you make it sound like he murdered someone. Maradona with his drugsm prostitutes allegations of rape, all whilst still playing, Terry with his sleeping with teammates girlfriends, racism , Suarez with his racism, biting, cheating and that's just a few and that's just footballers, that's without other people in public eye and certainly without probably many members of public who have probably done much worse. I know of people who done far far worse and then they pipe up and say about Giggs lol.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The way you wrote that post felt a bit pissy towards me tbh, as I have said, there are a few candidates that I like sound of, like Henry, Bellamy and certainly Giggs, and am not adverse to Hartson and Pulis at a push. My main thing is this ridiculous hatred needs to calm down.

I didn't say that being a good pundit makes you a good manager. Stop putting words in my mouth. The point I made was that being a bad pundit is usually an indicator of relatively poor football knowledge.

With regards to friendlies, I've no doubt that Ferguson was in his ear telling him not to go but I'd like to think that I would bust a gut to play for Wales at every opportunity. Pulling on that red jersey should be an honour every time. The ultimate decision to pull out of countless squads was his. I don't really understand what you're asking me about Bale so I can't answer, sorry.

I didn't say that African teams have as tough a time in qualifying campaigns as Wales. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I stated that your point about him choosing Wales over Sierra Leone is ridiculous as he qualified through a grandparent and as far as I'm aware, never even visited the country when he was growing up (correct me if I'm wrong).

My assessment of what Giggs did to his brother was fair. You're the one who seems to think it's fine and everyone should just forget about it. I didn't defend the actions of other players as you seem to suggest but sleeping with your mate's ex as Terry did (I'm pretty sure they were no longer together but again, correct me if I'm wrong) is not as bad as an 8 year affair with your brother's wife. For the record, I wouldn't want Terry as Welsh manager either.

My reply to you wasn't meant to sound "pissy" so apologies if it came across that way. I genuinely thought you were taking the mick when you made the point about Sierra Leone.

EDIT: I certainly don't hate Ryan Giggs. Hate is a very strong word I reserve for the likes of Pol Pot, Margaret Thatcher and James Corden.

But then i say that you said that a being a good pundit makes a good manger and therefore did not put words in your mouth. My point is there is no way in my opinion can you judge who is good at management based on any punditry, especially when the person hasn't done loads. For starters, a manager can have a lot more time to reflect on things, see things they might have got wrong. No fans can say what managerial skills a person has based on a few stints doing punditry, like man to man management, tactics, motivation, especially when a person is normally quietly spoken in public.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        On the apparent multi nationality qualifications, as far as I am aware he could have chosen between 3 , if you noticed, I didn't mention Sierra Leone as I wasn't quite sure which country it was and not 100 % sure but there could have been chance with England. Irrespective he played for Wales and during the games I witnessed him playing, the general feeling in the crowd was happy that he was there. I did not say that Giggs didn't have anything to do with decision not to play friendlies, but from what ive heard Fergie had lots to do with it based on injury record and I think I read it somewhere that Man Utd and Wales had an agreement about friendlies. I also attended games where I to was gutted I wasn't playing, can't say I liked it, but it really is relevant imo.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have in no way implied and in fact I have stated that what Giggs did was wrong, in fact it was awful and I also didn't say  at all that you defended the actions  of other players. The John Terry thing with Wayne Bridge, might not seem relevant because they had split up, but it is because, Wayne Bridge and others surrounding them were deeply hurt by it and I also said about Terrys racism accusations to, along with all the stuff Maradona did (would Wales fans have been the same if he was ours ?), Suarez chewing opponents, openly cheating in games, racism, some of these have been made captain of their countries/clubs and some even statues lol. My whole point on this was not that Giggs didn't do anything wrong, because he did, it is because other players have done as bad or worse and have still been lauded. I am not saying to laud him either, but I am saying that we should be more open to giving him the chance to right wrongs that people feel he has done , imo provided you have not committed major crime, people deserve second chance.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I understand that some don't hate him, but just don't want him, but there are a lot of people hating on him on social media to the point you would think he murdered some one.                                                                                          

[joseywales37]

Nov 24, 2017 16:17:48 GMT fiveattheback said:

Nov 24, 2017 13:53:18 GMT joseywales37 said:

The witch hunt is stupid, damaging and just plain embarrassing for those who don't want him for the reasons most are giving like missing friendlies which was years ago and we all know there is a very high possibility the decision wasn't his, sleeping with bros misses, not nice but also nothing to do with us or football knowledge, and also there are people who are talking about this who have done worse or know someone who has, not to mention the other footballers who have done as bad or worse and are still lauded for their football. If there is a fair and square reason for him not to have an equal chance as everyone else. And to me Giggs is Welsh legend, he chose Wales when he could have chosen another (believe it or not the African team he could've played for , probably more chance of World cup qualifying than us ), retired 1 year earlier than Rush and Hughes and made just 8 appearances less. He might have not taken part in friendlies over a nine year period, but he did not go 9 years without playing for Wales. If you don't want Giggs because you believe there a better candidate, then fair enough, but if the reason is anything to do with the above reasons come on, really ?

Not wanting Giggs as manager is hardly a witch hunt

There is no way Ryan Giggs is a Welsh legend, he is definitely a Manchester United legend.  The other country he qualified for were Sierra Leone, there is no chance he'd have gotten to a WC with them

Ian Rush is our leading goalscorer and both he and Mark Hughes played in eras with fewer international games

I don't want Giggs because I don't think he's the best candidate based on what I've seen of his punditry and the fact he's been touting himself for possible job and is now a Director of Football in Vietnam, however you can't deny all of these factors are still relevant

It is a witch hunt on social media with out a doubt with their hashtag no to gigs crap, and a lot of people jumping on bandwagon just because they heard some one else say they don't want him.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I gone over the reasons I believe the punditry thing is completely irrelevant in post above, the friendly thing is nearly twenty years ago and I have also given my opinion on above. We need to move on from that guys. If Giggs is the manager, support him for what we know he is potentially capable of. I like a lot of the candidates for various reasons, Giggs or Henry  preferred choice's, but would all the this about Giggs to stop tbh.

[joseywales37]

Nov 24, 2017 17:02:10 GMT iot said:

Nov 24, 2017 15:49:58 GMT joseywales37 said:

Firstly I am not a troll, thanks for , nice of you. I disagree that Mourinho didn't want him around when he took over when I have read many tines that he did. And if you are basing what his knowledge of football is off a couple pundit appearances that's a pity, Gary Neville got job based on it and look how that went.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for friendlies, you say its relevant after all these years, fair enough I understand that way of looking at it, but you have not said about how you know for defo that it was all down to him and also with what is Bale with injuries right now and being similar types of players, what in your opinion then is the best thing to do ? (I have been going to Wales games since early eighties and during Giggs era wanted to see him play every game, gutted when happened but understand more now and got over it).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You think African teams have as tough time qualifying as Wales have over years ?, European groups are notoriously harder to qualify from than the other continents. If Giggs was to be in them qualifiers he would probs have been seen as the best player.                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then your assessment of what Giggs did to his brother, you make it sound like he murdered someone. Maradona with his drugsm prostitutes allegations of rape, all whilst still playing, Terry with his sleeping with teammates girlfriends, racism , Suarez with his racism, biting, cheating and that's just a few and that's just footballers, that's without other people in public eye and certainly without probably many members of public who have probably done much worse. I know of people who done far far worse and then they pipe up and say about Giggs lol.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The way you wrote that post felt a bit pissy towards me tbh, as I have said, there are a few candidates that I like sound of, like Henry, Bellamy and certainly Giggs, and am not adverse to Hartson and Pulis at a push. My main thing is this ridiculous hatred needs to calm down.

Sierra Leone have never qualified for the WC so based on that record they're even less likely to qualify than we are!

I can't see how you could say missing 9 years of friendlies is irrelevant and slightly pathetic how you imply Giggs had no say in the matter - Ferguson might have put pressure on him but he's his own man! 

We don't qualify for World cups apart from 1, point is it is easier for African nations to qualify simply because the standard of opposition is lower, we always talk about how difficult our qualifying groups are.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I gone over my thoughts on friendlies in post above.

[greenscorpio1967]

that opens a good debate itself lol, moderate to half decent euro sides might well struggle, the pool of nations is big and the likes of Ghana , ivory coast Cameroon failed for 2018

[fiveattheback]

Nov 24, 2017 20:06:53 GMT joseywales37 said:

Nov 24, 2017 17:02:10 GMT iot said:

Sierra Leone have never qualified for the WC so based on that record they're even less likely to qualify than we are!

I can't see how you could say missing 9 years of friendlies is irrelevant and slightly pathetic how you imply Giggs had no say in the matter - Ferguson might have put pressure on him but he's his own man! 

We don't qualify for World cups apart from 1, point is it is easier for African nations to qualify simply because the standard of opposition is lower, we always talk about how difficult our qualifying groups are.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I gone over my thoughts on friendlies in post above.

Its not easier to qualify in Africa.  53 teams fight it out for 5 spots.  There are three rounds you have to get through as well

[joseywales37]

Nov 24, 2017 21:24:22 GMT fiveattheback said:

Nov 24, 2017 20:06:53 GMT joseywales37 said:

We don't qualify for World cups apart from 1, point is it is easier for African nations to qualify simply because the standard of opposition is lower, we always talk about how difficult our qualifying groups are.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I gone over my thoughts on friendlies in post above.

Its not easier to qualify in Africa.  53 teams fight it out for 5 spots.  There are three rounds you have to get through as well

The point I am making though is particularly back then if you were to put a world class player of Giggs calibre in one of those teams, the likelihood is that they would be one of the favourites, where as even with Giggs, we hardly ever got a group where we were favourites to even finish in 2nd never mind first, with less teams to come up against, if we had the same formula for qualifying in Europe, we would be lucky to get top 10. There an interview with Craig Bellamy on youtube . where states that he felt sorry for Giggs, because the players that were in the squad when he was, were not good enough, Cookie said pretty much the same at a talk he done in Swansea where he spoke glowingly about Giggs and stated that in his opinion Giggs was on another planet. And imo nearly every group we are in we are normally 3rd to last favourites.